
NBCC Panel on Merging Genres:
Peter Straub, Robert Polito, Geoffrey O’Brien, Lev Grossman
There was a panel discussion on Friday September 12, in New York City at the New School, sponsored by the National Book Critic’s Circle, entitled Merging Genres. Peter Straub, prolific multiple Bram Stoker award winning author and editor of Poe’s Children: The New Horror, just out from Doubleday, and of the Library of America’s H.P. Lovecraft: Tales, was the moderator. The panelists were Lev Grossman, book editor at Time magazine; Geoffrey O’Brien, poet, editor in chief of Library of America, and frequent contributor to the New York Review of Books; Robert Polito, editor of the Library of America editions, Crime Novels: American Noir of the 1930s and 1940s and Crime Novels: American Noir of the 1950s, and director of the Graduate Writing Program at the New School.
Theresa DeLucci—only a month back to Tor after Clarion West in Seattle—and I went to listen. Straub, who is a passionate supporter of genre merging, and has done some himself in his works, was an enthusiastic and articulate moderator, and happy in the end to be a genre writer. Each of them read provocative and often enlightening opening statements on genres and literature, from widely differing approaches. The panelists, while agreeing that real literary writers were working with genre materials today, and that some exceptional genre writers were even real literary writers, separated two to one—Polito and O’Brien versus Grossman—on the proposition that this was anything new and different, and that any substantial number of genre texts or genre writers were deserving of serious attention. Grossman attempted to present the Modernist separation between high art and the rest, especially genre, as an important barrier to the acceptance of genre, now in the process of being dismantled, while the others argued passionately that James Joyce was perhaps the archetypal mixer of genres, and that it was incorrect to say that Modernism did not in some way encompass genre and merge genres.
In the end, I was disturbed that such a fine assemblage of knowledgeable people needed to keep the discourse focused on what we would surely have to call high art, and to appropriate, for instance, Jim Thompson and David Goodis as late Modernists. This is way too close to the old tactic of saying that, say, Ray Bradbury isn’t really a genre writer, he’s too good for that. You can all, I am sure, insert other names for Bradbury with equal justice. And that comes down to a covert way of saying genre literature, itself, is worthless, and only redeemed by incorporation into higher literary texts. I think that is what a couple of them were in fact saying by implication.
Dashiell Hammett’s work in Black Mask, the great detective pulp magazine, may have been read by Ernest Hemingway and Gertrude Stein, but it sure wasn’t published as theirs was, nor accorded the same level of respect. In 1963 I met the first person ever allowed to write a doctoral dissertation on Hammett, permission granted only after an academic battle. And mystery and detective fiction, as the saying goes, was the popular entertainment of the Modernists. That dissertation was the beginning of a change in literary attitudes, not a great leap forward. It seems to me that we are going to have to wait until the generation educated in literature up to the 1960s all retires, in another decade or two, before we can overcome those anti-genre attitudes. The touchstone will be if and when a genre work is allowed to be literature and remain genre. We aren’t there yet. And it will continue to be a blight on the works in genre that we love, and their authors, until we get there.
VIEW ALL BY · Tuesday September 16, 2008 04:22pm EDT
Perhaps we can't wait for all those who think that way to retire, but if we keep forcing them to consider 'literary' fiction as being a genre with its own conventions, and authors like Kelly Link keep being claimed by both sides, maybe even the '93 snobs will eventually wake up.
VIEW ALL BY · Tuesday September 16, 2008 04:38pm EDT
Tuesday September 16, 2008 04:43pm EDT
The interview will be appearing on SpaceWesterns.com in October.
VIEW ALL BY · Tuesday September 16, 2008 04:55pm EDT
Tuesday September 16, 2008 05:03pm EDT
VIEW ALL BY · Wednesday September 17, 2008 03:35am EDT · amended on Wednesday September 17, 2008 04:30am EDT
http://detectivesbeyondborders.blogspot.com/2008/08/weighty-expectations.html#links
http://therapsheet.blogspot.com/2008/09/prose-by-any-other-name.html
http://crimealwayspays.blogspot.com/2008/09/crime-carnival-cometh-again.html
Leaving the problem of Academic recognition aside,I think it could be interesting to analyze what exactly we mean when we talk of "genre" and "literary".
For me a genre is defined by formal and/or thematic constraints determined by market expectation and target audience;"literary" is something that has the ambition to say something innovative,relevant or lasting regarding the human experience.
The opposition between the two is really a reflection of the opposition between "commercial" and "art for art's sake".
Obviously genre can be literary:Greek Tragedies were a genre,Dumas was a commercial writer.
What's considered literary may also be in truth just a rehashing of tropes,invisible becase in tune with the sensibilities of the moment:the "genre" of thirtysomething middle-class white males who have midlife crisis ,muse about the fact that their fathers never told them I love you,then discover the world existing outside their navel and start to grow up,for example.
But genre work may also "simply" be a good book,and there's nothing wrong with that.
I love good crime or sf,I wouldn't be much interested in a good romance novel;good genre books are confined to their target audience.
An interesting consequence is the fact that once writers are pidgeonholed inside a genre,unless they have great mainstream appeal like Chabon or sell more than God like Stephen King,they find it difficult to cross over to other audiences.
Jeffrey Ford has won an Edgar for the Girl in the Glass,but few in the crime fiction community noticed.
Irish crime fiction writer John Connolly has written a very good young adult fantasy,The Book of Lost Things,which reminded me of Gaiman and Clive Barker's Weaveworld,but I haven't seen it mentioned in fantasy sites or blogs.
Jo Walton's Small Change trilogy should appeal to the lovers of politico-historical mysteries like those of John Lawton or Carlo Lucarelli (and vice versa),but they'll likely never know.
I'm sure there are many more examples.
VIEW ALL BY · Wednesday September 17, 2008 06:00am EDT
The posters here have it right, to a one. The sad thing is, the generation now insisting on some rarefied idea of "literature" is also a generation that called that very definition into question a few moons back. They certainly weren't the first -- the Romantic poets did the same thing, and they weren't the first either -- but writers and critics of the 60s certainly did so with a level of brio that makes the panel's conversation sound all the more hypocritical. Among a billion other works I could cite, I'm immediately reminded of John Gardner's _The Art of Fiction_ (a terrific read, btw), where he argues that one of the fonts of "high culture" has always been "low culture." He had it right then. Why the backslide?
I'd also like to build on what platypus_rising said about the "literary" having ambitions of innovation, whereas something that is strictly "genre" being tied to its conventions. While I don't think ambition is quite enough -- I had ambitions to be a rock star once upon a time -- I think that that identifier is a very useful one. And so now we have started to build an aesthetic: "good" literature does not simply rehash tried and tested structures, but instead tries to innovate.
As far as I can tell, genres, before they are genres, are born of literary greatness. Poe spawned a whole generation of mystery and horror lovers; Mary Shelley's _Frankenstein_ is genre sci-fi through and through and helped make sci-fi what it is today; the genre of Romance in its current form takes most of its tropes from the Medieval Romances, making it perhaps the oldest extant genre around. You know who else borrows heavily from Medieval Romances? Dante and Shakespeare. "Literary" indeed.
This is why what platypus_rising said is important: so long as a work is not merely derivative, it is doing "literary" work, no matter its genre. Again, emphasizing already said in these posts, there is such a thing as the "literary genre"--derivative works that build on accepted conventions. Ever heard of the "MFA story" or "workshop fiction"? Literary genre: conventional, precious, and, most of the time, DOA.
Michael Chabon is one of literature's leading crusaders against the aspersions cast against genre, and his comic-book novel, which btw spawned a comic book, won the Pulitzer in 2000; Cormac McCarthy's _The Road_ is unapologetic apocalyptic sci-fi, and it won the Pulitzer in 2007; _The Brief Wondrous Life of Oscar Wao_ by Junot Diaz requires a Ph.D. in Nerd to understand (luckily I have one), and it won this year's Pulitzer. These are great books, literary in every sense, and each of them is also a valentine to genre fiction.
One more thing, and then I'll shut up -- I love a lot of literary fiction. If you're looking for just how good straight-up lit-fiction can be, please allow me to suggest to you _Wang In Love and Bondage_, a collection of three novellas by the Chinese writer Wang Xiaobo. It's just out, yet after reading it I've wondered how I've made it this far without it. Let me suggest, genre reader, that the pleasures you will find in that book will remind you of the pleasures you receive when you partake of your genre: you will be surprised and wonderstruck and wholly immersed in the world the author creates, and, when you have finished reading, you'll close the book and look out of the window of your subway car and, as the world zips by, you'll feel a little more human.
Wednesday September 17, 2008 08:10am EDT
VIEW ALL BY · Wednesday September 17, 2008 09:36am EDT
VIEW ALL BY · Wednesday September 17, 2008 10:02am EDT
Wednesday September 17, 2008 02:51pm EDT
Rather silly, given most of the panelists, to be disappointed in what they had to say. They've been paid to say such things for their whole careers.
Wednesday September 17, 2008 09:52pm EDT
I know one highschool where in one year the efforts of students caused a closeminded teacher to self reflect for a while. He shifted from "this is studyable lit. this is trash" mindset to one where he made sure to consult the librarian about "good scifi" and make it available as classroom "lit".
What kids see in school affects what they 'know' as acceptable/niche/boring/literary. It wont change their tastes, of course, but it will change that wider perception.
Thursday September 18, 2008 10:39am EDT
Thursday September 18, 2008 04:27pm EDT
Platypus:
I had no idea it was meant to be a ya novel but I loved it and covered it in the YBFH #20.
"The Book of Lost Things,which reminded me of Gaiman and Clive Barker's Weaveworld,but I haven't seen it mentioned in fantasy sites or blogs."
VIEW ALL BY · Thursday September 18, 2008 09:26pm EDT
VIEW ALL BY · Friday September 19, 2008 01:12pm EDT
Yep,you're right,sorry.I was overgeneralizing.
What I meant was that while perceptive critics like you or,in the crime fiction world,Sarah Weinman,may indeed recognize the importance of works that come to the genre from outside,the respective communities still consider them foreign objects.
This may well be only my subjective experience of trying to bring The Book of Lost Things in conversation in blogs and forums and receiving the internet equivalent of a blank stare.
Sandikal
it is definitely a book aimed at adults who were once children
as opposed to adults who grew in the pods and had memory implants? :D
I've actually read a review by someone who picked it up randomly in the YA section.
That said,I didn't mean that it was a book aimed only at teens,rather a book aimed at both adults and children,or an adult book with teen appeal,like The Neverending Story or Sophie's World.
I'm not really familiar with the way books are classified in the Usa,but here in Europe it would probably be marketed in both directions.
Tuesday March 24, 2009 10:38pm EDT
Betty
http://laptopprocessor.info