Jun 6 2013 12:00pm

The Way of Kings Reread: Chapters 13 and 14

The Way of Kings Brandon SandersonWelcome back to The Way of Kings reread here on! This week we get to see Dalinar showcase exactly why he is called the Blackthorn and is still a force still to be reckoned despite his visions. In many ways this is Dalinar at his best, as his visions and reactions to them are seen as a great weakness to the people. Kaladin 2.0 (or would it be 3.0?) makes plans and tries to cajole the men of Bridge Four info action. Kaladin is a man of many hats—Bridgeman, Surgeon, Soldier, Slave—and he is just getting started.


Chapter 13: Ten Heartbeats

Setting: The Shattered Plains

Points of View: Dalinar and Adolin

What Happens:

While still in the setup stage of king Elhokar’s hunt on the Shattered Plains for an especially large chasmfiend, the creature emerges from crevices between the plateaus much sooner than planned. It arrives on the viewing plateau—the very platform which all of the guests are on—instead of the hunting plateau across the way.

Instead of the well-planned traditional hunt lasting for hours, those with Shardblades (Elhokar, Dalinar, and Adolin) rush it in hopes of a quick kill so that the others in the retinue may escape. Dalinar would have preferred to just distract the beast, but it is clear Elhokar must have his kill, so Dalinar and the dutiful Adolin support him. The beast has already destroyed the bridge that was being used to travel between platforms, sending many victims into the chasm.

Dalinar and Adolin try to slow it down from atop their Ryshadium horses by cutting its legs, while Elhokar attempts to distract it with a more direct approach, thus endangering himself. Sadeas uses a grandbow to hamper the chasmfiend from afar; he has no Shardblade of his own, but his Shardplate gives him the strength to wield the grandbow—sometimes called a Shardbow—well.

Elhokar ends up falling off his horse due to a broken saddle strap, also causing a crack in his Shardplate that is now leaking Stormlight. He finds himself about to be crushed beneath one of the chasmfiend’s large claws when one of Sadeas’ arrows slams into the creature, allowing Elhokar to escape.

Elhokar turns back to the chasmfiend shouting, “Are you a god!” and charges it on foot, slamming into the beast with his Shardblade. After knocking Elhokar and his blade aside, the fiend slams its tail into Dalinar, separating him from his horse. Dalinar sees that his horse is only slightly injured, but orders it out of the fray. At this point half of the creature’s 14 legs are now dead from Shardblade strikes. Dalinar, caught unaware, again gets bowled over by the chasmfiend’s tail. Renarin gallops up to Dalinar’s aid, but is shooed away as Renarin has neither Shardplate or blade to defend himself from the creature. Dalinar sees that the king and a dismounted Adolin are still attacking the chasmfiend and rushes to their aid. While trying to deflect the claws, Adolin is hit from behind and tossed aside. After Adolin lands, Dalinar sees he is still alive and so goes on to aid Elhokar, who was just knocked down right in front of the beast.

Dalinar races to his nephew's aid and catches one of the beasts claws above his head, holding it at bay with his enhanced strength from his Shardplate. All onlookers are stunned by this action for a moment. Adolin gets back in the game and attacks another leg; the beast’s remaining legs are unable to hold up its own weight and begin to break. The chasmfiend crashes down, leaving it prone to Elhokar’s Shardblade. Elhokar cuts deeply into the beast and tears out its gemheart with his gauntleted hands.

Quote of the Chapter:

“Are you a god!” Elhokar bellowed.

Dalinar groaned, looking over his shoulder. The king had not fled. He strode toward the beast, hand to the side.

“I defy you, creature!” Elhokar screamed.

Elhokar seems to have a lot to prove not to just his people, but also to himself. He is in a very precarious position in being the leader of a new a empire that is still very new in the scheme of politics. His father brought the Alethi princedoms together for the first time in many generations, and it was still a work in progress when Gavilar was killed, leaving Elhokar the reins of a bucking horse of a nation—and one he probably wasn’t ready to temper.

He clearly blames the Parshendi and by extension their “gods” (the chasmfiends), but Elhokar (like Dalinar) also seems to at least partly blame himself for the death of his father. To my eyes he also seems to have a death wish when it comes to battle despite being so cautious at night. Could it simply be the “Thrill” that Alethi warriors refer to so much when in the heat of battle or is it something more telling? Has the death of his father broken him inside in more ways? Only time will tell.


This was one of the most exhilarating early chapters, which showcased exactly how formidable Shardbearers are as well as how dangerous life out on the Shattered Plains can be.

The greatest question this chapter left me concerns the Parshendi belief that that the chasmfiends are gods. By extension, that could mean the fiends are the Voidbringers themselves. In a way the fiends seem evolved specifically for battle against those with Shardblades even outside of the natural armor, or it could be the reverse and the Shardblades and Shardplate were developed to combat the chasmfiends. Either way, this was a hard-fought battle that could have easily turned to the chasmfiends advantage. As the Desolation approaches, will it change the chasmfiends more and perhaps make them more sentient and therefore more dangerous? Or could the Parshendi actually be worshipping the gemhearts instead? Could that be where the essence of a Voidbringer is housed, much like how spren are imprisoned in some of the fabrials we later see?

The chasmfiends are very strange creatures indeed. They have the gemhearts which grow larger within them. They have 14 legs and 4 clawed arms as well as what is described as four voices which overlap. It isn’t clear if they actually have more than one mouth, which would make it all the stranger. Their voices seem to work in concert with one another in some fashion, which leads me to believe their voices will become more important later on. Could they possibly sing, like some of the other creatures we’ve seen in this world? And what sort of effect would they have? Could they simply call Parshendi to them?

Also, I didn’t catch this on previous reads, but the eyes of a chasmfiend are green when it is alive, but turn black when killed. This is reminiscent of how the shards change a person's eye color, so it seems Stormlight or a similar energy is at play within the beasts as their gemhearts are always described as green, which we’ve been told is also the most efficient gem to house Stormlight. The heart also seems to be responsible for the larger and dangerous growth of chasmfiends. What else could the heart imbue into them? These beasts were probably a form of Chull that has simply been adulterated and changed by Odium.

One thing that also stood out to me was when Dalinar had to rescue Elhokar because he was all that was left of Gavilar besides the kingdom, but what about Jasnah? Is she simply being marginalized for being a woman? In the end Jasnah will probably have a larger effect on the story and happenings than Elhokar who will most likely just go along for the ride. It is the women of the world who may not be leading physically, but who are changing the society through their intellect.

Chapter 14: Payday

Setting: The Shattered Plains

Point of View: Kaladin

What Happens:

Kaladin begins his mission to change Bridge Four into an elite group in hopes of having all its members survive bridge runs. Kaladin wakes the crew, but after threatening the whole group without getting a response, he punches Moash and carry him outside where the rest very reluctantly follow. Once outside he tells them that they will no longer sleep in but begin training everyday so that they can improve their strength and stamina when carrying a bridge so that they “never lose another man.” The bridgemen question whether he has the authority to make them do anything. Gaz very unhelpfully tells them that, except on an actual bridge run, the bridgeleader has no authority to make them do anything.

Warily, Gaz leaves expecting Kaladin to follow him. Kaladin then asks Syl to follow Gaz to tell him where he ends up. Syl comes back soon and reports Gaz is hiding not far away. Kaladin circles around Gaz’s position to surprise him. Gaz expects an attack, but is surprised when Kaladin merely asks for his pay. At first Gaz rebuffs him saying everyone gets paid later, but Kaladin tells him he knows he already has the squad’s money. Reluctantly, Gaz gives him three spheres. Kaladin reminds Gaz that he is due four. After getting all he is due Kaladin gives the fourth to Gaz as his pay to stay out of Kaladin’s way with the bridge crew. He reminds Gaz that Kaladin is giving it to him and Gaz is not just keeping it. As Gaz and Kaladin separate Gaz tells Kaladin “You aren’t going to change anything,” and that “You can’t have authority without rank!” When Kaladin and Syl are along he tells her that Gaz is wrong and that authority comes “From the men who give it to you.”

Kaladin then asks Syl watch over him at night incase Gaz decides to take retribution on him. Syl agrees. Both agree it is unlikely to happen. Kaladin then comes to the realization that he needs motivation of some kind over the bridgemen. He heads to the lumberyard and borrows a plank with a handhold on it meant for a new bridge that’s to be constructed. He proceeds to stand in view of bridge four’s barracks and run through a routine of exercises using the plank. After awhile a crowd has gathered to watch him including many from his bridge crew. He stopped when the noon bells were rung after having worked out for hours even though he felt completely drained many times. Afterwards he left to get some water and returned for the plank and found Rock the Horneater who told them he and others had a bet going that Kaladin had used a lightweight plank, which Rock found not to be true. Kaladin then announced the bridge crew’s camp duty for the evening and told them they were on bridge duty that afternoon as well should they be called to action.

Kaladin returned the plank to the carpenters and proceeded to jog away and fall down in an alley out of sight of everyone so they wouldn’t see how weary he was. Syl finds him and tells him she’s glad he didn’t break his word to Gaz about giving him the sphere, but also that she is shocked that she knows what a lie is as well as many other things a spren wouldn’t typically know such as knowing what death means. She goes on to say she knows now that she’s different from other spren and Kaladin agrees that she hasn’t really ever acted like a normal spren since soon after she met him.

Quote of the Chapter:

“I don’t even know what I am either. A bridgeman? A surgeon? A soldier? A slave? Those are just labels. Inside, I’m me. A very different me than I was a year ago, but I can’t worry about that, so I just keep moving and hope my feet take me where I need to go.”

“You aren’t angry at me for bring you that leaf?”

“Syl, if you hadn’t interrupted me, I’d have stepped of into the chasm. That leaf was what I needed. It was the right thing, somehow.”


“I’m glad you’re not angry. Though I do think you’re to blame for what’s happening to me. Before I met you I never had to think about death or lying.”

“That’s how I am,” he said dryly, “Bringing death and lies wherever I go. Me and the Nightwatcher.”

Yes, I’m still fascinated by the Nightwatcher and although this passage doesn’t let on anything new, its importance has to do with how Syl sees Kaladin. In her mind he is a bringer of change, the catalyst that has caused her memories to return. Kaladin, meanwhile, sees Syl as his savior. What is ultimately important, however, is that they both need each other.


This is one of those chapters in which you think something good will actually happen to Kaladin, but Sanderson pulls back just enough to make Kal’s journey tougher. If only he had someone else to support him other than Syl. Sure he eventually gets that in his bridge crew, but man, does it take time.

During Kaladin's intense workout session, we see him for the first time pulling Stormlight in himself in some fashion even though he has no clue he’s done it. Even unknowingly his body is guiding him to the power. So my question is it just because of his connection to Syl or was he born with this as some sort of innate ability? There does seem to be a sort of family lineage in terms of people having access to Stormlight powers. Nearly all of the Kholin family are showing abilities, again whether they realize it or not. Jasnah has her Soulcasting, Elhokar seems to be able to see the symbol head spren, which will likely lead him to being a Radiant of one stripe or another. Then there is Dalinar with his obvious connections to many things and is well on his way to becoming a Radiant as well, especially given he is acknowledge as being one of the most capable users of Shardplate. Like Kaladin will giving up a Shardblade be Dalinar’s road to an Honorblade? Adolin also seems to be on the path of the Radiants.

Another possible connection is mentioned in regard to the Herald Kalak. Bridgeman Rock is a personal favorite minor character of mine. He is a Horneater, but it is said that his tribe’s true name is Unkalaki. So we again have “kalak” used in another word, suggesting that the tribe venerated Kalak at some time. Though given the name Rock, I wonder if he is fated for Talenel’s branch of the Radiants, especially since the essence is related to rock and stone; Rock also displays the attributes of dependability and resourcefulness, which are closely related to Talenel’s essence.

Syl is getting a bit more serious. She is gaining memories, or rather regaining them. She has her grounding point on Roshar with Kaladin that focuses her attention enabling her to more develop as a character. Memory is very important to Syl and as she develops she’ll be able to connect a lot of dots for not only Kaladin, but for us readers. It will be interesting once she comes into her fully knowledge what she’ll be able to share about not only the nature of spren, but of the Radiants history and that of ancient Roshar.

Michael Pye (aka The Mad Hatter) runs The Mad Hatter’s Bookshelf & Book Review where he shares his views on genre books. He can also be found nattering on Twitter or in search of the perfect piece of bacon. He is currently working on an anthology project and is hoping to find a good publishing home for it soon.

Karen Morrell
1. karenm83
I took the chasmfiends eyes changing color to be just the normal reaction to getting killed with a Shardblade. Doesn't it do that to everyone? I thought all the descriptions made mention of eyes turned to black like they had been burned or some such.
William Carter
2. wcarter
I absolutely agree that Jasnah is a keystone character and shouldn't be underestimated in terms of importance by her uncle, but I also highly doubt Elhokar will "just be along for the ride."

Unlike many stereotypical stories with second generation kings with family members who are "good men" Elhokar doesn't seem to be bad. Yes he's definitely brash and paranoid. But good lord, ANYONE would be paranoid with creatures like the cryptics hanging out in the corners of your vision.

I hadn't thought about it before, but it would make sense for Rock to end up tied to the Radiants wouldn't it? He can see Syl afterall...
Sean Dowell
3. qbe_64
If it wasn't specifically stated in the prologue that plate interfered with drawing stormlight, I'm assume that Dalinar sucked Elhokar's gems dry while holding off the claw.

I would argue that the single greatest visual moment of the book is that moment right there. Leaping a rock ledge, knee sliding under a claw flowing immediately into jumping another into catching the third!? I can hear the frantic musical score in my head as he heads towards Elhokar, and then silence as the claw hits, Dalinar bends and the plate cracks in slow motion as the dust cloud puffs around him from the impact of the wind. His scream breaks the silence as he pushes against the claw, the snap of the legs and the chasmfiends scream as Adolin finishes him off. This would be an AMAZING scene for a movie.
4. AndrewB
Michael, IMO, the quote of Chapter 14 is "authority comes 'From the men who give it to you.'". You quoted this, but did not expound upon it.

For me, this quote is analogous to the American colonists claim of "no taxation without representation." The Alethi culture sets great importance on rank. Light eyes are "socially superior" to darkeyes. Further, there are level of darkeyes. (Kaladin's family was a second level, much higher than most of the citizens of his hometown -- who IIRC were fifth level.) A darkeye is supposed to defer to a lighteye no matter what. In military matters, the lighteyes are given a higher rank. We see this in the treatment of the Bridgemen. There is a Brightlord who oversees the Bridgemen.

Kaladin's quote is a philosphy based on merit, not one's eye color, which is genetic. If a majority to Alethians were to follow Kaladin's philosophy, then it could lead to a societal revolution.

Thanks for reading my musings,
(aka the muse spren)
Sean Dowell
5. qbe_64
Top 5 Sanderson moments I would love to see in film:

5. Lan's charge into Demandred with arrow support from the Two Rivers and subsequent kill of Demandred.
4. Kelsier's fight with Inquistor, specifically his flying inside the cage, stabalizing himself and then exploding the cage.
3. Kaladin's leap into the Parshendi - Dalinar Kholin breaking through the Parsendi lines to see an overwhelmed group of bridgemen holding the bridgehead.
2. Egwene Al-Vere, from Adelorna perspective blasting To-Raken out of the air, a font of power and light against the black-lit sky through a gaping hole in the tower wall.
1. What I just described in post #3
Sean Dowell
6. qbe_64
Did anyone here who has read the Fionavar Tapestry find Dalinar's rush to aid oddly similar to the fight between Lancelot and that tree demon?

I didn't go back and re-read it, but I recall Lancelot jumping over one arm while ducking under another rolling and coming up with one hand on his sword to catch a hammer blow. (that's my single favourite fight scene in all the fantasy that I've ever read). An homage from Mr. Sanderson perhaps?

Anyone who hasn't read Guy Gavriel Kay, do yourself a favour and go do it. Especially the Fionavar Tapestry.
Adam S.
Ten Heartbeats was a great action sequence, Sanderson at his most exciting. I have to say, Elhokar always seemed reckless to me, and I don't have a favorable impression of him from the beginning. But it seems that there is hope for him, once Dalinar smacks some sense into him later.
Kaladin's journey is progressing, but he has many more hurdles than he knows, and it's going to be a loooooooooooooooong road to saving his men and himself, requiring help and quite a bit of luck (plus radiant abilities). I always wondered about his relationship with Syl, and how it started. I think she says later that she was watching him for a long time while he battled in Amaram's army, and his compassion and leadership drew her to him. I figured that was how it began, with her initiating the bond, and it strengthening over time, with him gaining physical abilities, and her gaining sentience.
Alyson Mahn
8. AyeJaySedai
The chapter where Kaladin failed at leadership was depressing at first, but it makes the small steps he takes later all the more satisfying. One cannot just clap one's hands and get everyone to follow, the trust needs to be earned especially in a situation like these men are in. Hope takes effort and it can really hurt, and the bridge team needs a very compelling reason to hope again.
Adam S.
10. MDNY
qbe_64 : I would add Vin drawing all the mists into her at the end of Hero of Ages, and a scene with nightblood in Warbreaker, maybe the opening one (just cause nightblood always cracks me up and I really want to see what he would look like).
Flint Timmins
9. Giovanotto
The chasmfiend scene is great. It is a natural, exciting way to show off a Shardbearer's abilities and to characterize the Kholin men. Seeing what Dalinar pulls off here, I can sympathize with Adolin in his struggles to understand his father. It's not that Dalinar has lost his warrior's edge, just that he rarely chooses to use it any more, almost like he doesn't want to be Alethi. That is much more difficult to deal with than Dalinar simply growing older.
Sean Dowell
11. qbe_64
@10 - I agree, moreso with any scene involving Nightblood. I'm sure CGI has come along way since then, but Vin in the mists I have a picture with the quality of Keanu Reeves spinning with sign post while fighting 1,000 Agent Smith's in Matrix 2.

Who would do the voice for Nightblood? Bane? I think he sounds like Bane.
Margot Virzana
12. LuvURphleb
It's not the action sequences that I wish to see (though they are awesome) its the aftermath. When Dalinar confronts sadeas about his betrayal and than gets all the bridge men in exchange for his sword. That is a great scene. Or when Dalinar confronts elhokar about the betrayal and how he is not out to kill his nephew because it would be so easy for him since he runs the guards that protect the king. It when kaladin returns to his men in dalinars camp and they talk about his storm lighting.
I think I love these scenes so much because they don't fall flat after such a powerful action scene. They make sense- they carry the story well and...and I don't know! They are just so cool!
Flint Timmins
13. Giovanotto
@5- I love the scene of Vin flying through air in Well of Ascension with that koloss sword and slice Straff right though the middle. No music or screams or anything, just the sound of the wind rippling through her mistcloak. It would be awesome.
Adam S.
14. MDNY
Bane is a logical choice, but I might go in unexpected directions and do someone like Ben Kingsley, or Gary Oldman.
You're right that the Vin mist scene could be awful (like the Matrix movies after the first one) if not done "realistically" enough. But I think her drawing the mists and battling 12 Inquisitors at once could be AWESOME if done well.
15. Zizoz
"Welcome back to The Way of Kings reread"? But I was so much happier on the Way of Kings reread...

Also in the realm of minor nitpicks, Kaladin's pay is five marks, or four after bribing Gaz, not four/three.
16. Vhonar
Brandon did a reading from words of radiance at his last booksigning this monday in which he read another one of Dalinar's visions. This one was particularly interesting because he shows a spren jumping into rocks that then turn into a thunderclast (like in the prelude). My theory on this was that the spren was the voidbringer that changes things to make them evil and stuff. Maybe the Chasmfiends have this spren in their gemhearts that make them like that.
Jonathan Purcell
17. Lomeon
@5 qbe_64 and @10 MDNY

Yes, and yes. I have gone back to read these specific scenes again and again with dynamic soundtrack blaring in my head. Brandon has a gift for writing very cenematic fights with massive emotional build-ups.

I have always compared Vin's earring being ripped out by Marsh with Neo being killed at the end of the Matrix. These actions clear the way for both to become unapproachable gods of combat with enormous emotional payoff.

Edit: @10 qbe_64

Note to self: refresh comments before chiming in. A comparison to The Matrix has already been made.
18. Lys
@16... some of us would like to avoid even minor spoilers... white it out or some such?
S Cooper
19. SPC
@5 There's one particular gunfight in Alloy of Law that I'd most want to see filmed (really the whole book, but the gunfight scenes particularly), although I don't know how they could make steelpushing make sense on screen.
Maiane Bakroeva
20. Isilel
So, according to Adolin, Dalinar displays impossible grace, even for a Shardbearer and seemes to briefly glow silver... Is he displaying some emergent Radiant abilities, despite the lack of spren bond? Or is it that Adolin got a hard knock on the head?

Re: chasmfiends being Parshendi gods, aren't they also hunting and killing them? The pupating ones in particular.
21. SmokeyandBooger
I'm curious if Dalinar will manifest the same abilities as Kaladin now that he has given up his shards. Syl mentions that she was glad that he got rid of them, that it makes him a better person. Pairing that with comments from @20, where he seems to briefly glow silver, maybe he has the inante abilities like the rest of the Kholin family seem to. Maybe he can now attract an honor spren that was previously repelled by the shards he carried. After all, he also has a strong moral code, granted he came into later in life, but as he said him self, he is a man of extremes. Now that he is embracing honor fully, an honorspren will bond itself to him
22. Ianray
Just curious, why do you say that Adolin is on the path of the radiants? I don't remember any hints at that.
William Carter
23. wcarter
@20 and 21

Dalinar Kholin...I am truly scared for this man to be honest.

I want to see him continue to grow and show up all the corrupt little weasels that make up the Alethi nobiilty, but he is almost too cool to live. (TV Tropes) And unlike Robert Jordan, Sanderson has no problems with killing people who express this trait.
24. Level 5 Accountant
I've always pictured the Mistborn series as an Anime. Those Inquisitors in the rain: just a perfect image. All the cinematic scenes mentioned are great (particularly like Kelsier's big fight scene). For my money I'd like to add Mistborn: Alloy of Law's SLIGHT SPOILER obligatory train-top fight scene.
25. PHubbard
@5, 10-14, 17, 19 - YES. These scenes would all be amazing to see on film. I have always especially thought so about the 'Kaladin jump', Dalinar confronting Sadeas, and of course Vin's final inquisitor showdown (I mean, the Kredik Shaw is an awesome location for a fight scene, add in the mist-pulling, the dramatic weather and the sheer ass-kicking and it's just...amazing).

And how could I forget Egwene. That Scene is probably my most re-read from any book (starting with 'A Visit from Verin Sedai').

Also, I totally agree about the Alloy of Law - one packed book of cinematic, gun-toting fun. I'm not sure which scene I'd pick out of the Train fight, the Wedding and the Final Showdown as my absolute favourite.

James Briggs
26. traveler
16@Vhonar Go back to chapter 12reread and look under xrayjay's post ,He left a link to a youtube vidio that shows Brandon reading at the signing frome the WOR .the vidio is 9 muniets long and tells of dalinars vision about the spren and how it turned into a thunderclast in the purelake.
27. PHubbard
@5, 10-14, 17, 19 - YES. These scenes would all be amazing to see on film. I have always especially thought so about the 'Kaladin jump', Dalinar confronting Sadeas, and of course Vin's final inquisitor showdown (I mean, the Kredik Shaw is an awesome location for a fight scene, add in the mist-pulling, the dramatic weather and the sheer ass-kicking and it's just...amazing).

And how could I forget Egwene. That Scene is probably my most re-read from any book (starting with 'A Visit from Verin Sedai').

Also, I totally agree about the Alloy of Law - one packed book of cinematic, gun-toting fun. I'm not sure which scene I'd pick out of the Train fight, the Wedding and the Final Showdown as my absolute favourite.

Jesse Sayers
28. Fluvre
@22- I think he was saying Dalinar is on the path to the radiants not Adolin.

I think Kaladin has had a bit of his powers his whole life. At a couple of points he mentions that he always got depressed when a high storm hadn't come in a while, that would have meant there was less stormlight for him to take up leading to him having less energy. Tied into this Kal's brother could always make him happy. Considering the dual nature of so much of this world it seems likely that if one group of radiants can absorb stormlight another could let out stormlight.
29. PHubbard
Not sure why that posted twice... here is what the 2nd post was meant to say


...Back to the Way of Kings re-read

I do like how Sanderson gives Kaladin the 'double-dip' here, with him making his personal turnaround only to be confronted with a cynical and apathetic crew. In so many stories, once the hero(ine) reaches their 'epiphany point' they suddenly become hugely inspirational to everone and start changing the world very quickly. It is realistic that Kaladin has to work hard to reach through to these hardened, depressed people - very rarely to people actually get turned around in the blink of an eye.

I agree with others that Dalinar's plate glowing is significant, and seems to be linked to the honorable act of protecting someone. This got me thinking - do other Radiant orders share the 2nd Windrunner ideal ("I will protect those who cannot protect themselves"), or is this supposed to be unique to them (as it isn't one of the basic 3). If it's unique, what does this suggest aboout Dalinar's potential order (although this is assuming a lot of things - for a start, do we even know if people are inherently one order, or whether they choose/affect it based on what they become/do?)

Also, nice spot with Kalak appearing in Rock's tribe name. The Heralds really do seem to pop up everywhere, don't they? I wonder if it will turn out there are 10 tribes...
James Briggs
30. traveler watch this because I would like your thoughtson the possabilities
31. Zen
I had never fully considered... is Odium a Chasmfiend of some sort?
There was a reference in the book, I forget where at the moment, to some sort of mother of abominations. How do we know that Odium/Rayse was or is human? I knew he was stuck on this world, but perhaps he is more adapted to it than just an ordinary person.
32. larachu
On my 3rd reread I found it interesting that Dalinar's armor is described as glowing while he is holding off the chasmfiend's claw.
"Dalinar held back the claw and matched its strength, a figure in dark, silvery metal that almost seemed to glow." This is before his Shardplate begins to crack under the weight.

It definitely reminded me of the vision Dalinar has later, where he fights off the essences with the poker, and the two KR come to fight, their armor glowing while they are in battle.
33. Freelancer
The comment of Elhokar being all that is left of Gavilar is a reference to royal succession, in which Jasnah would take no part. The Alethi don't have queens, due to the gender-role distinctions. Without Elhokar, Gavilar's line cannot continue on the throne.

AndrewB @4

I don't see the equivalency between Kaladin's statement that authority comes from the men who give it to you, and that of no taxation without representation. I'd like if you could expand on the idea you are suggesting there. A person who holds no specific authority granted by a known heirarchy, can command authority through actions and assertiveness, if those result in the respect of the people around him, and nobody else is taking those necessary actions. In my workplace, I very often give unasked direction (not as official orders, but via analytical proof of necessary steps for proper business operation) to people who are laterally equivalent or higher in the food chain to myself. I have no organizational or delegated authority to do so, but when my analysis of circumstances identifies a needed response, I press for appropriate action, and get results. I always smile a little inside when I get a nice, polite email from someone far senior to myself, reporting action completed as requested. Effectively, those people have granted me the authority to direct their actions in areas of my and my team's expertise.

qbe_64 @6

I've had similar reactions to R. A. Salvatore's battle scenes, thinking them reminiscent of those written by Kay.

qbe_64 @11

Sean Connery. Barring that, Jeremy Irons

SmokeyandBooger @21

Yes, the Parshendi harvesting gemhearts does put a damper on the theory that they worship the chasmfiends.

As for Vin scenes from Mistborn, I would favor her airborne dance with the city gate. She's not flying, she's Pulling and Pushing, with style.
Jennifer B
34. JennB
Fluvre @ 28
Tien would always give Kaladin rocks when he didn't feel good. I think this is significant. Even common rocks with tiny veins of crystal must be able to hold a tiny bit of stormlight. We will probably never know how he knew these rocks would make Kaladin feel better. I think he must have been a very perceptive little boy. It is too bad we won't get to know him better.

I wonder if Renarin will trigger Kaladin's protective side when they get to know one another.
35. Jasuni
@23 I see a decent chance that Dalinar's going to die. I think that Dalinar's character arc could be finished soon (and this would progress Adolin's character arc) He also seems like the type of character to be killed off to me.

@33 The Alethi do have a queen. She's ruling in Alethkar while Elhokar leads the "war".

@34 I think that Tien's personality was what cheared Kaladin, rather than the rocks themselves. Could be wrong
36. Zen
Sanderson has repeatedly said that we should not consider any character safe, even if he has not done their book yet. Part of me has hoped that he was really just trying to make us worry, but I would not put him past killing Dalinar.
37. Zizoz
Huh, I didn't recall that Elhokar was married. I couldn't even find a mention of his wife on the Coppermind, either. But a Google search was able to find a reference.
38. wingracer
That's because the "Queen" so to speak is Gavilar's wife. Despite the mention of her ruling things back home, when she arives on the Plains and speaks to Dalinar, it is pretty clear that she has little to no authority there. She was basically treated as a figurehead at best.
39. wingracer
Oops, sorry. Looks like I had that wrong. Elhokar does have a wife acting as Queen in Alethkar. She is mentioned so rarely that I was thinking Navani was in that role. Heck, I don't think we even know her name yet.
Phil Anthrop
40. Isomere
I like the idea of Greatshells singing, and there could be all sorts of interesting things to link up with that idea. There is pretty solid evidence that sound is a focus for some of the types of magic on Roshar including Soulcasting.

I personally think Greatshells are linked with honor/cultivation, and the widespread poaching is going to have devastating consequences.
Nadine L.
41. travyl
@28. Fluvre
I never made the connection, that Kaladin would get depressed when stormlights hadn't come in a while. The quote in the book is:
... this melancholy, this sense of despair. It had taken him often when he’d been younger, most frequently during the weeks of the Weeping, when the sky was hidden by clouds.
While it's not explicitely stated, you might be correct, that his mood is influenced by (lack of) highstorms and stormlight: states that in the four weeks of the Weeping there is only one highstorm (in the middle), while normally they happen "every few days".
Thanks for pointing that out. Though I doubt that any Radiant could produce stormlight. But like JennB said (34), there certainly could be people who have an affinity to find sources of stormlight (eg. rocks). -
I asumed that it was Tien's "naive" nature, which made Kaladin feel bether (as Kaladin thinks himself), but it really could be the rocks.

Re cinematic scenes:
I sometimes have the feeling that B. Sanderson writes to much with the movie-picture in mind. I like the battles, but sometimes (especially in Mistborn) it just felt more like a movie-script, telling the artists exactly where to stand... - I guess this is my fault, because I just don't have a visual memory, and normally don't really visualize scenes.
Nadine L.
42. travyl
Continuing the thoughts of the previous post:
Actually I would prefer, if Kaladin's connection to Syl is giving him the ability to use stormlight - and not that she just "improved" his ability.
If it's Syl, it would mean, that he gains his power thanks to his honorable actions, which I prefer over "genetic superiority".
In the same vein, I dislike the thought, that the Lighteyes really could have a genetic claim to be the leaders, as has been suggested in a previous thread.
But it is Sanderson's book and I can believe he'll do it, as he did play with genetic "based" abilities in Mistborn. It's actually a good explanation, why not everybody has the same abilities, but it's just cruel if you're not one of the "chosen" (the Rithmatist boy would agree).
Rob Munnelly
43. RobMRobM
qbe @6. I'm reading Kay now. Started with Under Heaven (loved it), then Fionavar Tapestry (liked it a lot, especially how the inter-woven strands of plot wrap up so deftly in the last book), River of Souls (liked it, but kind of slow), Tigana (in middle of it - liking it so far).
Adam S.
45. MDNY
@Travyl- I agree that Sanderson's writing is influenced by film, but I don't view that as a negative. Many contemporary authors are influenced by film and television, just as older authors were influenced by the authors and playwrights that came before them. It just seems to be particularly clear in Sanderson novels, especially certain action scenes (later in this book, Kaladin leaping the chasm while drawing stormlight from the stones in the Parshendis' beards is a perfect example). Having grown up in the era of television and movies myself, I have no problems with this, and enjoy visualizing certain scenes and how they could be filmed. I never felt that Sanderson was writing a script, more like a novel that could be easily transposed to film.
Jennifer B
46. JennB
It sounds like Sanderson was hoping to finish Words of Radiance last night. He didn't quite make it, but he must be close!
James Briggs
47. traveler
I just checked his web site and it is posted at 95%done .
35@Jusani I think that Dalinar is going to be around for a long time as a counter to Sadeasthink that People will beable to use stormlight without usin a spren. The most important words a man can say will be the oaths that tie humans to a spren that will enhance god given talent. Also that lighteyes, and darkeyes,and women will become KR
And the movie part that i would like to see would be Kaladin charging the Parshendi to save Dalinar and his army. It would be cool to see Kaladin explode with light when he said the 2nd ideal before jumoing of the end of the bridge to protect others.
Daniel Robertson
48. danr62
@41. travyl

There is another quote about Kaladin's dark moods during the Weeping. Here it is:

He actually missed the highstorms, with their rage and vitality. These days were dreary, and he found it difficult to get anything productive done. As if the lack of storms left him without strength.
My emphasis.
Sean Dowell
49. qbe_64
@Freelancer 33, I don't think Nightblood is British. So I wouldn't choose Connery. James Earl Jones obviously comes to mind when you mention the voice of anything. But while he'd make a perfect Dark One for wheel of time, I don't picture Nightblood as a booming voice like that.

Jeremy Irons would be a good choice though. Pretty classic voice.
I'm almost thinking a comedic actor would fit the role too, like Martin Short.
Adam S.
50. MDNY
qbe_64 I agree with a comedian, but anyone says Eddie Murphy (who is the go-to man for comedic voices these days) and they get slapped.
I think Jack Nicholson would be close to how I envision (enlisten?) Nightblood's voice.
51. AndrewB
Freelancer @33: It is possible likely that I should have used a different analogy than "taxation without representation." My thought was that Kaladin's statement (IMO, of course) strikes at the heart of Alethi society. As I view Alethi society through this book, I see it as a very hierachry - driven society. There is a specfic caste like system. With few exceptions, one cannot move above one's caste. More importantly (for purposes of my commentary), those in the higher castes look down upon those in lower castes. Generally speaking, Alethian Brightlords and Brightladies do not have a positive view of the concept of meritocracy (Dalinar, an obvious exception).

My point was that Kaladin's comment -- or, more specifically, how (IMO) Kaladin meant it ("authority comes 'From the men who give it to you'") was directly opposite of the teachings of Alethian society. I beleive that Kaladin's statement meant that his authority did not come from Gaz or some other superior. Rather, it came from the respect he earned from the men who acknowledge/respect his authority. In other words, as a bridgeleader Kaladin beleives that his words/actions do not mean anything unless his men respect his authority becuase Kaladin has earned such respect -- not because Kaladin's superior has ordered such respect/authority be given.

I then tried to tie analogize that to the sentiments of the American Colonists who did not want to be under the authority of the British crown without some say in their own affairs.

Thanks for reading my musings.
(aka the musespren)
jeremiah lane
52. jc12741
Besides the ones metioned already, I would like to see Jasnah take on the four thugs in the alley way. As for Nightblood, when I read him, I always hear so creepy little kids voice trying to please some unseen master.
53. Freelancer
qbe_64 @49

Well, the Dan Dos Santos representation of Nightblood on the cover looks like a Scottish longsword, so I though the voice of a Scot would be appropriate.
Rob Campbell
54. rccampbe
@ Carl Engle-Laird
'This preference is, I believe, a warning from Sanderson to his readership. Dalinar is not going to be that kind of hero.' I disagreed with this statement from last week, but waited til this week's chapters to use for evidence. Isilel @20 and SmokeyandBooger @21 mention Dalinar's Radiant-like manifestations. Combine that with the divestment of his Shards and I think it's a high probability guess that he's on the path to an honorspren, peace of mind regarding fighting/killing because he'll find the most important words, and a resurrection of the Blackthorne persona (with a few differences, of course) Adolin so wants to see.

Honorspren doesn't imply Windrunner though, right? I wouldn't expect Dalinar and Kaladin to be in the same order of the KR. So...
Question #1 Does type of spren not determine the order of the KR? It's just innate Stormlight usage abilities? Does every KR have a spren bond?
Question #2 What's the difference between a KR with an honorspren and some other kind of spren?
Question #3 Is honorspren really Honorspren and other spren are from Cultivation/Odium?

Also, wcarter @23: Too cool to live is scaring me, too. But I don't think that can happen too soon. There's a desolation coming! In the past desolation(s?), it has taken 10 Heralds and hundereds of KR to turn the tide. Dal and Kal need to 1) become real KR and 2) do a lot of KR army building before Dalinar can pull an Obi-Wan on us.
Cheryl Sanders
55. RestlessSpirit
AndrewB @4: "If a majority of Alethians were to follow Kaladin's philosophy, then it could lead to a societal revolution." I would go further and say this is what what will have to happen if the folks on Roshar expect to survive what seems to be in store for them. The belief Kaladin shares with Syl here that authority is given by the men who follow you, fits exactly with the concepts Dalinar's book Way of Kings espouses.
James Briggs
56. traveler
Dalinar and Kaladin will start the KR what I wonder is where they will find the plate and blades,do the ghoastbloods have sets , or mabe the parshendi?Also it seems that the spren will take sides in the coming battles. So how do you defend yourself against a spren?If you kill a thunderclast can the spren just inhabit more rock or is it weakendsome how?
Cheryl Sanders
57. RestlessSpirit
Just pure speculation and off the cuff stream-of-consciousness, but perhaps some of the more talented fabrial makers will produce the plate and blades with the help of the right kind of spren. Or perhaps poor Taln knows how/where it can be obtained.

So far as spren/thunderclasts go, I can't even begin to speculate! That information is too new for my brain to have assimilated :)
58. Confutus
Here is where the multiple different icons begin to appear.

The Herald icons for Chapter 12 were Jes-Mask. The appearance of Jezrien might be due to Elhokar's presence, although it might also be associated with Dalinar. Mask appears to be due to Hoid/Wit.

For chapter 13, they are Jes-Chach. Jes is present with Elhokar and Dalinar. Chach appears for the first time. I am not sure of the significance of this icon, but I have speculated that it has something to do with Adolin.

For chapter 14, they are Jes-Kak. Jes has been previously associated with Kaladin, who is demonstrating leadership as well as some Windrunner abilities. Kak is a bit harder to account for.
Ryan Henrie
59. Coldmist
A couple of thoughts:

I haven't seen anyone speculate on what happens to the
chasmfiend after pupating, or going through a complete
metamorphosis. If the Parshendi are trying to cut out the gemhearts, is there another reason besides using the gems to soulcast? What if they are killing them (their 'job' so to speak) so they can't complete the pupating stage. Do they become something else when done?

@ 21, Syl never liked the shardblade, but she never had a problem with shardplate. What if a shardblade kills spren, that have bonded, ie joined with a person and is linked to the physical side now?

"A Shardblade did not cut living flesh; it severed the soul itself."

Once bonded with a spren, does the 'soul' get complete, and the shardblade can kill that?
Josep Abenza
60. JosepAbenza
@59 and @40. Re: Chasmfiends and gems. It has not been commented, except for these two references, that what the Alethi and the Parshendi are doing with the chasmfiends is "widespread poaching". When I first read TWoK, this was one of the things that got my attention. They kill every chasmfiend they can locate when they are pupating. If this phase is important in their life cycle, they are basically sending the species to extintion. From our contemporary perspective, that is plain wrong. It's basically like killing elephants for the ivory in their tusks.

Now consider that the Parshendi killed Gavilar in a spectacular way, as if to ensure Alethi retaliation against them, and this has led to the actual situation. Where they trying to set the Alethi into the chasmfiend-killing? Will something BAD happen when there no longer are chasmfiends?
Cheryl Sanders
61. RestlessSpirit
@60 JosepAbenza: This has been a fear of mine as well, that the Alethi are rushing toward their destruction with their arms spread wide.

The only motive I can assign to the Parshendi is they provoked this so-called Alethi Vengeance Pact as a means of providing them with some sort of advantage in the Final Desolation and wholesale slaughter of chasmfiends is what's required somehow. The Alethi High Princes have been reeled in quite easily and kept on the hook a ridiculously long time. Good thing Dalinar's about to bring everyone to their senses.
F Shelley
62. FSS
Maybe I missed it, but what did everyone think about the quote at the beginning of the chapter? Who said it, and to whom? It references the cosmere. Is Hoid involved in that quote? Who has perpetual health? Marsh? Sazed? Raoden?

As someone fairly new to the idea of the cosmere, this quote is very interesting...
Josep Abenza
63. JosepAbenza
@62 FSS: They are reserving the beginning quotes for a single post when we get to the end Part 2. Fromthe commentary in:
"Before we get into that, though, I should say that Michael and I have been thinking about it, and have decided that the best way to cover the letter-fragments that make up the epigraphs to Part Two is to put them all together and cover them as a whole once this part is over. As such, we won’t be discussing them week by week."
65. Freelancer
The phrasing of the segments of The Letter are simply too fragmented to handle bit-by-bit, better to treat the whole at a single setting.
Cheryl Sanders
66. RestlessSpirit
Just sayin' - I can't wait until we discuss the letter! In a book filled with mysteries, IMO the letter is the most enigmatic of all!
Phil Anthrop
67. Isomere
I personally think the Greatshells have something to do with the way Honor and Cultivation store energy in the Physical Realm, and killing them weakens both Shards. Also, knocking out a critical link in the local ecology can start extinction chain reactions, so we could see some huge planetary changes because of the vengeance pact.
68. SuperBen
@60: I was thinking of it the other way around, that the parshendi (and now alethi) are holding back a dangerous force. That being the post-pupated chasmfiend.

I'm more worried that when the alethi and parshendi start fighting head-to-head and ignoring the chasmfiends, then we're going to see trouble.
69. Jerun
@3: Agree completely. Dalinar's gripping the huge claw of the chasmfiend and pushing against it was indeed breathtaking and one of the best fantasy scenes/moments. I'd definitely want to see that in a movie.
As long as we are talking about book scenes, the one where Dalinar actually dreams of the Heralds and fights alongside them would be so cool.

Kingkiller Chronicles: Kvothe's splitting his mind seven ways and calling the lightening was good too.

Elantris: The last 50-60 pages of Raoden using his powers.

Mistborn: 1) Vin fighting all the Steel Inquisitors.
2) Elend and team charging against the Koloss. The final scene of Hero of Ages.
Jeremy Guebert
70. jeremyguebert
Minor point: the people of Alethkar are known as the Alethi, not the Alethians. Not critical, since we all know what the person who wrote that was talking about, just a minor thing that bugged me, much like when people incorrectly refer to more than one Jedi as "Jedis" (for the record, the plural of Jedi is Jedi).

Book scene I'd most like to see in a movie: Kaladin jumping off the edge of the moving bridge when he and Bridge 4 go back to rescue Dalinar and his men.
Kenneth La Rocque
71. kjtherock
I would be careful about getting to close to Syl. She might be a bad girl. The voidbringers me have become the current spren when they were defeated and she may be the first to become dangerous again. The other spren may do the same thing as she is doing.
72. SuperBen
@71: I hadn't thought of that... Now that you mention it though, it does kind of work. Sanderson's reveal of a Spren bringing a rock to life and the fact that syl doesn't like shardblades both support that idea.

Still, I refuse to believe syl is evil. If syl is involved, than the voidbringers can't all bad.
73. Zen
As long as we are talking about reveals, when Sanderson talked about that spren bringing rock to life, the group was specifically looking for a corrupted spren, that Someone had corrupted. (I didn't catch who it was corrupting) That corrupting left it very malevolant and with red eyes. None of that sounds like Syl.

Syl is genuinely good and honorable.

But I am curious exactly how Cultivation figures into all of this.
Cheryl Sanders
74. RestlessSpirit
I don't see the High Princes or Elhokar ignoring chasmfiends completely - not without a very compelling reason. No doubt both will find their hands full soon enough but the Alethi armies are funded by the gems from the chasmfiends. Also, Elhokar has no lands of his own and needs his own income independent of the other High Princes.
Alice Arneson
75. Wetlandernw
For a couple of chapters that I liked so much, I don't seem to have much to say.

Elhokar clearly has... issues. At this stage, he just looks like a young man who knows he's not as qualified for his position as his father was, or his uncle would be; maybe just a little pathetic in that knowledge, trying vainly to show himself and everyone around him that ::stomp:: he is too good enough to be king! As the book goes on, I decided that there was more to it than that, a bit. But that's still a lot of the basis, IMO - he knows he doesn't measure up to Gavilar or Dalinar, but he doesn't know quite what to do about it. Also? He's not young enough to justify his behavior.

One of my first thoughts was that Gavilar wasn't as good a father to him as Dalinar is to Adolin, at least in terms of getting him to understand what's important, but I (partially) changed my mind on that. For one thing, Elhokar was probably a good bit older than Adolin when their respective fathers took up the Codes. For another thing, though Dalinar is able to "make" Adolin follow the Codes, he hasn't done a very good job of getting Adolin to understand why they should be followed; from my own observation, passing on the what without the why of the Codes (or the keeping of any tradition) is an effort doomed to failure. So it remains to be seen whether Dalinar can communicate - to either Elhokar or Adolin, or both - the actual value of the Codes.

Re: Kaladin and authority... I would say that Kaladin is half-right. There is such a thing as authority which derives merely from rank, and in many situations, that authority is enough to get obedience. There is a different kind of authority, the kind Kaladin is talking about here, and it's the kind he needs. The positional authority of bridgeleader only applies to the actual runs, so if he's going to help them (i.e. lead them) in any meaningful way, he needs the kind of authority that men give voluntarily. He's right for his situation - his authority must come from earning the respect of his men, not from some bestowed rank.

Gaz, of course, is completely wrong when he says, "You can't have authority without a rank."
76. McKay B
@OP: Great thought about Rock being a potential Radiant. I hadn't thought of that.

#31: No, Odium isn't a greatshell, any more than Ati (Ruin) was an Inquisitor in Mistborn. (Although hmmm, I wonder if Gemhearts might be the "body" of a Shard (probably Honor) the way Atium was the "body" of Ati.)

Out of all of people's ideas that they would most love to see in a well-made Sanderson movie, I think most of my favorite moments haven't been mentioned yet. I would LOVE to see Lightsong's climactic interaction with Susebron in Warbreaker, leading into Susebron's triumphal entrance blowing a palace wall out of his way to come in and save the other characters. Or TenSoon's escape from the kandra, or TenSoon's intervention in the final fight between Vin and Zane, or Spook becoming the Survivor of the Flames.
Jeremy Guebert
77. jeremyguebert
Wetlander @ 75 - iirc, Adolin comes to his own understanding of the why of following the Codes by the end of the book. See chapter 58, where he walks through the Kholin warcamp and makes some internal comments about the organization of the camp, seriousness of the war, etc. Since it's something that he sees himself, as opposed to Dalinar teaching him, that doesn't really answer the question of whether Dalinar can actually pass it on to Elhokar, but it does (in my opinion) make it more likely to stick for him.
Alice Arneson
78. Wetlandernw
jeremy @77 - I agree, I think Adolin is getting there in terms of comprehending the Codes by the end of the book. I even think he'll make more progress on it before long, so that before it's all over he fully believes and participates in the Codes. (Well, if he's to become a KR, he would, right?)

But for a long time, Dalinar was requiring it of him (and the Kholin warcamp) without sufficient... clarification. (Not the best word, but I'm a bit sideways tonight.) Maybe Dalinar had given some explanation earlier, and we were just not privy to it, but at this stage, Adolin clearly isn't on board. He's obedient (Hello, Chach!) and unconsciously reflects much of his obedience in his skill, courage, and self-discipline, but he doesn't really see the valueyet. Maybe it just took some growing up, and this scene where he realizes that his father is a truly formidable force, for him to be ready to start recognizing the effect of the constant discipline of the Codes on one's thinking, habits, values, etc.

As you say, it will be interesting to see whether the value can be communicated to Elhokar, or maybe comprehended by him. I find myself wondering whether he's going to turn into a good king, or whether he's going to crash and burn.

(Also - do you mind being addressed as jeremy instead of jeremyguebert? Just checking.)
William Carter
79. wcarter
@77 and 78

Great points about Adolin. Another minor note to point out is even when he didn't understand him, he did obey. Even if he isn't completely mature, he isn't the cliched/stereotypical 18-20 year old on the farm character acting whiney and spoiled shortly before the parent(s) get killed off and the Call to Adventure comes.

New prediction: he--perhaps even moreso than his father--is almost certainly doomed.
Ryan Henrie
80. Coldmist
On Rock being a radient, he could see Syl well before anyone else. What if they send him on a 'KR finding' mission to go through all the war camps, and look for mafah'liki? Just an idea on how to use his talents.
Rock shook his head. “I’d be dead. Is something strange about you. All men can see it, even if they don’t want to speak of this thing. I looked at bridge where you were. Arrows hit all around you—beside your head, next to your hands. But they weren’t hitting you.”


“Is no such thing.” Rock glanced at Kaladin’s shoulder. “Besides, there is mafah’liki who always follows you.” The large Horneater bowed his head reverently to Syl, then made a strange gesture with his hand touching his shoulders and then his forehead.

Kaladin started. “You can see her?” He glanced at Syl. As a windspren, she could appear to those she wanted to—and that generally only meant Kaladin.

Syl seemed shocked. No, she hadn’t appeared to Rock specifically.

“I am alaii’iku,” Rock said, shrugging.

“Which means…”

Rock scowled. “Airsick lowlanders. Is there nothing proper you know? Anyway, you are special man. Bridge Four, it lost eight runners yesterday counting the three wounded.”
MAtthew Thom
81. zas452
It is long been speculated that Seons are a result of Odium splintering Devotion.
It has also been stated ( that Honor and Cultivation were romantically linked.

Could it be that the Spren are a combination of both Honor and Cultivation?
Could Odium have corrupted them somehow? Or are these 'evil' spren like the Skaze? A counterpart to that of H&C's

So if Spren are a Splinter of Cultivation, like the Seons are Splinters are Devotion,
83. Elephantspren
Brandon mentioned in an interview that the way people get powers varies from book to book. "In Elantris through the Shaod, In Mistborn it's genetic, in The Way of Kings it depends on what someone has done."

So yeah if you're honorable you get superpowers.
Jeremy Guebert
84. jeremyguebert
Wetlander @78 - just jeremy is perfectly fine. I certainly don't expect everyone to use my last name every time they address me :p

I'm cautiously optimistic that between the "talk" Elhokar had with Dalinar at the end of the book and Jasnah showing up and letting him know that yes, he really is seeing the cryptics, and no, he's not going crazy, will be a positive step in his development as a leader.

zas452 @ 81 - Looks like part of your post got cut off. Based on a reading Bradon did of WoR, SPOILER with the spren animating/transforming into a thunderclast, END SPOILER, it seems like there are both "good" and "evil" spren, which makes the question of where they come from all the more challenging to answer.

Edit: I had white-texted the spoiler, and it was still showing up. Hopefully it's fixed now.
Phil Anthrop
85. Isomere
@81: Some, perhaps all Spren are a combination of both Honor and Cultivation:
Brandon: So what we are dealing with here is that all Spren are indeed all pieces of the one who has gone... So there has been dissension among them about who gets to call themselves Honorspren, if that makes sense, and there is some disagreement among scholars about which ones are really ... But the spren you are running into are all of either Honor or Cultivation, or some mixture between them. And you can usually tell the ones that are more Honor, and the ones that are more Cultivation. Source
86. Risley
Regarding Kaladin's view on authority: Most military forces in the world are divided into the officer corps and the enlisted corps. The corresponds to the division of Lighteyes and Darkeyes. In the officer corps a person is granted authority based on rank/position and everyone of lower rank is expected to follow their orders if they are within the same chain of command. Also, there is often a physical separation of the officer and the people he leads. For example; I am a Flight Commander in the US Air Force and as such I have an office physically removed from the work area of my Airmen. This separation facilitates the workflow for the flight because the airmen can work without looking over their shoulders, and if they have a problem they can approach me without involving everyone in the Flight. The enlisted corps is dramatically different in practice even if it appears to be the same on the surface. People of enlisted rank typically work directly with each other and must have a higher level of trust/confidence built within the troops that they lead. This is Kaladin's persepective as he was serving as a "NCO" in Amaram's army
Anneke van Staden
87. QueenofDreams
In terms of Cultivation's involvement in events, I have a rather tenuous theory. We hear about the voidbringers, and voidbinding which appear to be linked (purely because of the names). In one of Dalinar's visions, Tanavast says that he isn't good at seeing into the future, divining the future is Cultivation's arena. And when Adolin talks to the ardent about Dalinar's visions, the ardent says something like 'divining the future is the soul of voidbinding'. Anyway, that makes me wonder if the surges are linked to honour and voidbinding/the voidbringers are linked to cultivation. Odium would then be outside the game trying to destroy everything. I could very well be wrong though!
Ryan Henrie
89. Coldmist
@87, here is the quote:
Voidbinding is a dark and evil thing, and the soul of it was to try to divine the future.
Here is another fun quote:
That was another oddity about Vorin peoples; they avoided overtly guessing the future.
In a vision, we get this:
The figure squinted at the horizon. “I cannot see the future completely. Cultivation, she is better at it than I. It’s as if the future is a shattering window. The further you look, the more pieces that window breaks into. The near future can be anticipated, but the distant future… I can only guess.”
90. Izzos
@20 and @21 One thing that puzzles me though is from a comment in the second prologue. Didn't Szeth say that wearing Shardplate interfered somehow with surgebinding? Yet it seems that the KR did not have that problem. In Dalinar's vision he witnessed KR in full Shardplate who were surgebinding (or something like it). It seems that becoming a full KR allows you to do things with shards and with the magic system in general that others can't do. Perhaps this is similar to the differences between mistings and full mistborn? Can a person 'snap' in this world like on Scadrial? Also, I wonder if the ability to surgebind with Shardplate has something to do with the glowing of the armor. Or maybe I'm completely wrong.
Sean Taylor
91. Izzos
@2 and @80. Personally I like the idea of Rock joing the 17th Shard and becoming a Worldhopper. "Airsick mistborn..."

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