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posted Friday June 04, 2010 03:47pm EDT

The Classical Background

David Drake

A bookstore owner told me a few years ago that a customer had asked her, “Where do you keep the classics? You know—like Jacqueline Susann.”

What I mean by ‘the classics’ is the literature of ancient Greece and Rome. Throughout my adult life, much of my pleasure reading has been in classical literature.

My Latin is good enough that I translate Ovid’s poetry for fun. I put the results up on my website just to keep myself honest, but to my amazement, a fair number of people do read them. My Greek only equips me to annotate other people’s translations, though that can be surprisingly useful.

All this is my whim, a way I’ve chosen to spend my time. It’s no better than tying dry flies or keeping up with indie bands: it’s just different. (I think it is better than watching reality television, but I accept that others have a right to feel otherwise. They’re unlikely to become my fans, however.) Though I don’t mean that other writers should do what I do, my writing gains a lot from this classical background.

Classical literature is a great source of plots. History in general is, of course, but the classical period provides a lot of well documented but little-known events. I don’t think anybody would have known that I used Polybius’ account of the Rhodes-Byzantium War as the background for a novel if I hadn’t said so in the introduction.

Using real events let me create an internally logical but very complex pattern of diplomacy, double-dealing, and battle. Good fiction is (to my mind) about character, but not having to worry about plot consistency makes it a lot easier to concentrate on traits of character.

It helps that classical events (both real and fictional) were on a smaller scale than those of modern history. When I’m reading Tacitus about the Batavian Revolt or Vergil on the struggles of the Trojans under Aeneas, I can view the whole fabric. That makes it easier to steal the details which give weight and texture to my fiction.

You can’t base a single novel on World War II or even on the Pacific Theater. If you focus down to something which you could handle in one book—for example, the Guadalcanal Campaign—you have a grain of sand on a beach, not a small beach.

There were only fifty Argonauts, however. Their story swept across the world of their time and still resonates today.

Modern historians will give you a better grasp of what really happened than ancient sources will, but ancient writers tell you what people felt was going on. I use that emotional reality to create characters with personalities.

Some ancient historians were eye witnesses to the events they describe. For three examples:

Writing like this brings the past to life because the writer was living it.

More important than plot sources, classical literature brings me in intimate contact with a foreign—the Latin word is alienus, alien—culture. When I read Ovid, Juvenal—any classical author—closely enough to really understand what they’re saying, they provide ways of thinking which are startlingly different from my own. My fictional people and cultures don’t have to be cookie-cutter replicas of the here and now.

So—there’s a general discussion of why I find classical literature useful to my writing. Next week I’ll discuss the specific sources that helped me create my new fantasy, The Legions of Fire.

I’ll add one final comment. While nobody else needs to get as deeply into the classics as I have, I think we Americans would be better off as a country if more of us regularly read at least one non-English literature in the original.

It’s pretty minor if the elves of a fantasy novel talk as though they’re auto dealers from Poughkeepsie. It’s not minor if American foreign policy is conducted by people who assume the parties on the other side of the table have the same core beliefs as the folks they meet at prayer breakfasts in Waco.


Bestselling author David Drake can be found online at david-drake.com; his newest novel, The Legions of Fire has just been released by Tor Books.

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categories: Written Word
tags: classics, Greek and Roman history, Ovid, Xenophon, Herodian, fantasy

14 comments
Kate Keith-Fitzgerald
1.  ceitfianna
VIEW ALL BY · Friday June 04, 2010 03:54pm EDT
I studied Classics as an undergrad and in graduate school. It ended up not being the right path for me, I'm now training to be a librarian, but I'm so glad that I did study it. I had a high school Latin teacher who read us the first stanza of the Odyssey in the original then in multiple translations and I was caught. In college, I took three years of Ancient Greek, translated Homer in Athens and began a masters thesis on Pindar's poetry. The three odes of his that I translated on my own are probably some of the work I'm most proud of in all my academic career.

I adore seeing how authors are constantly rethinking and imagining the stories of the ancient world. The Percy Jackson series is only the most recent example and while I don't agree with all the choices Riordan made, I love how alive he made the myths.
jon meltzer
2.  jmeltzer
VIEW ALL BY · Friday June 04, 2010 04:57pm EDT
Looks like the bookstore's customer was a Trekkie; because "the classics - Jacqueline Susann" is Spock speaking in ST 4: The Voyage Home.
Rikka Cordin
3.  Rikka
VIEW ALL BY · Friday June 04, 2010 05:31pm EDT
Latinnnnnnnn!

I need to get back into Latin. I took six years of it, up through senior year of high school and translated about 85% of the Aeneid as well as maybe half of Cicero's speeches and far too many poems by Catullus and Horace as well as the first third of Caesar's Gallic Wars. I have translated very little Ovid, though maybe I should try him out. It's been two years since I've jumped into any large translation projects in Latin (I have no Greek, ancient or otherwise, timeo Danaos and all that ;) ). Instead I'm studying Spanish the 'wrong way' these days by [very, very slowly] translating a Peruvian novel or two before I head there in January. I do so love to translate literature... it's a much more intimate and involved experience than simply reading. There are a few crude euphemisms I have heard that amuse me but I will stray from them for the moment. XD

As for the importance of reading the 'classics', the USA is so based in Rome that it helps to learn how much of the government and societal expectations are straight out of nearly 2 millenia old Mediterranean thought (depending on which side of the BC/AD changeover you prefer). Anyone who studies postmodernist anything would thoroughly appreciate the origins.

Anyway, forgive me if I wait for the paperback, I'm naught but a poor college student... :D
WonderGirl
4.  WonderGirl
Friday June 04, 2010 06:06pm EDT
Current Classics major here! Four years of Latin in high school, although the selection of readings was rather limited (mostly Livy, with a grand finale of Cicero). Now I'm concentrating primarily on Greek.

As I see it, a knowledge of classical literature is something every writer and reader should have, if for no other purpose than being able to better understand all the allusions that show up in European (and American) lit. The Norton Anthology can explain the basis of "The Shield of Achilles" in a footnote, but the poem will still be that much more meaningful if you've previously read the Iliad.
James Enge
5.  JamesEnge
VIEW ALL BY · Saturday June 05, 2010 01:29am EDT
This was a good read--and it was especially great to see the shout-out to Ammianus. His history is full of fun stuff. The reign of terror of the Caesar Gallus and the overthrow of the usurper Sylvanus are a couple more episodes he probably had first-hand knowledge of. Spies, secret messages, harrowing adventures, paranoid emperors, doomed heroes, pet bears--Ammianus has it all.
WonderGirl
6.  aleistra
Saturday June 05, 2010 07:10pm EDT
Are you sure the customer wasn't just making a sly Star Trek IV reference?
Wesley Parish
7.  Aladdin_Sane
VIEW ALL BY · Sunday June 06, 2010 05:41am EDT
I chose Classics (Latin, Greek) for my University major way back when. Unfortunately the first year of my Classics career was cut short by a psychopathic motorist who ran me down and nearly killed me - traumatic brain injury and all that; though I did put in some time during my year and a half of recuperation working through most of Pharr's Homeric Greek - and the Teach Yourself Spanish and Teach Yourself Portuguese; and a Waikato Uni course in Te Reo Maori - to reassure myself I still had the goods, and that the psychopathic motorist hadn't done away with my linguistic skills. (New Zealand has a psychopathic Road Code which penalizes cyclists, and I disproved one of its key points - that a cyclist has to be seen, but a motorist doesn't have to look - somehow it's supposed to be automatic.)

But anyway, nice to know that I'm not the only one who's enjoyed the Classics. I should've guessed - your books - of which I've read some of the Isles series - are too tightly worked and have a "classical" tone about them I also find with many of the earlier English writers.
WonderGirl
8.  peachy
Sunday June 06, 2010 11:54am EDT
I had professors attempt to recruit me for classics as a freshman, but I resisted - I'm just too incompetent with languages - and so settled for straight history instead. (A decision confirmed a couple of years later by my one brief academic encounter with Latin... just disastrous, Varro and Crassus and Varus all rolled into one couldn't done worse.) So I have to be content with reading the ancients in translation.

For those not familiar with it, a favourite site is Lacus Curtius (http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/home.html); I read all of Polybius there, and significant related chunks of Plutarch.
David Drake
9.  DavidDrake
VIEW ALL BY · Monday June 07, 2010 08:19am EDT
Dear People,

I'm going to try this again. I had (after some effort) managed to get logged in (I'm not very good with internet stuff; and Henry VIII had some domestic problems). I then did a careful response to the first six comments.

When then vanished when I hit Preview. We were in the mountains for our (43d) anniversary and the internet connection wasn't 100%.

We're now home and I'm going to try this again as a Word document which I will attempt to cut and paste. Wish me luck.

1) I'm impressed by your Pindar. The one thing I translated from Greek of which I'm proud is Hector's farewell to Astyanax. That may be the best short passage not only in Homer but in all literature, so I guess I can claim to have gone out on a high note.

2) A friend who read a draft mentioned the ST4 connection, which seems likely to me also. I thought of dropping it from the essay but decided to leave it because:

a) it was told for true--and the customer really did head for S in the Literature section; and

b) it makes a good point. When Stephen Donaldson speaks of the classics, he means 'classic English literature'. What you see depends on where you're standing.

3) Wow, that's a heck of a lot more of Cicero's speeches than I've gotten through. (Though I read a couple of the OCT volumes of his letters and may get back to them.)

If you do decide to read Ovid, remember that he was trained as a lawyer (as was I). His internal dialogues can generally be read as alternative defenses. (I was not in the state at the time the murder was committed; and if it be proven that I was in the state at the time, nonetheless I didn't kill the victim; and if it be proven that I did kill the victim, it was in self defense and anyway, the bastard deserved it.)

And yes, the Founding Fathers were very heavily steeped in classical thought, though not always first hand. Washington and Jefferson both were affected by Addison's play Cato at Utica, for example. And you can't intelligently discuss any of the (English) Augustan writers without a grounding in the classics.

4) Ah! Yes, see the paragraph above.
You personally may be amused to learn that I've used "Hesiod's" Shield of Heracles in the sequel to Legions (working title Monsters from the Deep) which is currently something over half drafted and will be rising again now that I'm back from Chimney Rock.

5) Ammianus was a major influence on me. My first series (Vettius and Dama, which I began to write in 1971) was a result of reading him.

The reason I mentioned Amida is that it really hit me; to the extent that when I managed to get to Turkey, I made a point of going to Amida (modern Diyarbakir) and standing on the enormous walls. The stonework you see today is medieval, but the foundations go back to Rome--and Ammianus.

6) That now seems likely (see 2, above).

7) My bikes have motors, but I haven't driven a car in close on 25 years. I can sympathize more vividly with you than you might imagine. I'm very sorry.

8) I'm not ept on-line and so not familiar with your Lacus Curtius, but I'm hugely amused by the name. Classicists really do have a sense of humor! (Brave young knight hurls himself into a spreading chasm and saves Rome by his sacrifice.)

The historians--particularly Polybius--have given me lots of plot business for my SF; but not for my fantasies, for some reason. On which subject, check the essay the nice people at tor.com will be running next week (Friday, I guess?).

I will now make a second attempt to post this. If I can't do it, I'll send it to Bridget as an attachment and she will do what's necessary, but I'm going to try. Every day in every way....

Dave Drake
WonderGirl
10.  Darren A. Jones
Monday June 07, 2010 11:12am EDT
Hurray! One of my favorite authors is posting on Tor now.

I fully agree with the recommendation about Americans reading non-English literature. Unfortunately, most of us (including me) don't speak or read more than one language. Something I regret.
Gabriele Campbell
11.  G-Campbell
VIEW ALL BY · Monday June 07, 2010 12:03pm EDT
I really love this place. First, it turns out there are people here who like opera, and now it's the Classics. :)

I've dabbled in translating some Ausonius and Vergil for fun, but mostly I'm working my way through Tacitus and Velleius Paterculus right now. Should polish my Ancient Greek so I can tackle Cassius Dio too, at least in a bilingual edition. I never trust the translations unchecked. ;)

I need those texts for my novel-in-progress, A LAND UNCONQUERED which is about the Romans in Germania. Yes, it will have the Varus battle. :)
WonderGirl
12.  DensityDuck
Tuesday June 08, 2010 01:54pm EDT
Hello Dave!

Glad to see that your message got through.

One thing I'll say is: Be careful not to let posting distract you from writing! I've seen a LOT of authors become overly involved in talking to the reading community, to the detriment of their writing work; and a lot of authors have learned the hard way that the reader community is like a pet cougar, in that they're your best friends right up until you do something that spooks them.

That said, I've gotten a reply to every email I've sent via your webpage, and I very greatly appreciate you taking the time!
Derek Neve
13.  TXHermes
VIEW ALL BY · Thursday June 24, 2010 11:22pm EDT
I really enjoyed these two columns on the classics. Thanks!
WonderGirl
14.  Mark A. Flacy
Sunday July 11, 2010 04:50pm EDT
Waco. Nice.

How about Harvard or Chicago?

(BTW, I decided to go to West Point after reading the various Hammer's Slammers stories that were available in the early 1970's. I have classmates and their children who are probably fighting as I write this. I've seen 2ID and 1ID sandwiches at DFW while waiting for a flight; that's certainly different from the 1st CAV sandwiches in your day and the early days of mine.)
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