It used to be quite common for books that were fantasy, but not standard quest fantasy, to be published in the thinnest of SF disguises. Anne McCaffrey’s Pern began life in Analog. Telepathic teleporting time-travelling dragons are pretty fantastical, but it’s hinted all along that this is a lost colony and it’s all explained in Dragonsdawn. There are plenty of other examples, like Marion Zimmer Bradley’s Darkover (which also has a prequel explanation of how things got weird, Darkover Landfall) and Andre Norton’s Witchworld. There’s magic, but we’ll call it psionics. It feels like fantasy, but there’s a veneer of a science fictional explanation.
Another example is C.J. Cherryh’s Chronicles of Morgaine, which I’m reading right now and will be writing about soon. In these books there’s a beautiful perilous woman with a magic sword who is going around closing gates between worlds—gates that are abused by the elflike quhal to extend their lives by moving their consciousness to another body. Each volume comes with a preface explaining the science fictional background—but within the stories it’s all honour and betrayal and oaths stronger than virtue.
You may see books like this as a charming blend of genres, or you may be horrified to find fantasy cooties what you might reasonably have thought was SF. It’s perfectly obvious why people used to do this—all these series are quite old, from the time either before there was much genre fantasy published or from when the genre fantasy niche was quite specific. They might have wanted to write something that crossed genres—Bradley in particular used the culture clash. But one definite reason they cloaked the books as SF was because SF would sell, and fantasy wouldn’t.
What led me to think about this was reading Charlie Stross’s long essay on his blog about his Merchant Princes series. The thing is that these do it backwards. Instead of trying to make fantasy respectable with a few mentions of orbits and genetic engineering of dragons, they try to make science fiction fantastical by not explaining how things work.
I could begin writing in the back-story behind the Clan’s world-walking capability. In the first three books it was presented as a black box, implicitly magical; by book six it should be fairly obvious that the series is SF in fantasy drag, and as the series expands the breakdown and decay of fantasy tropes continues.
The reason for selling them as fantasy was economic and contractual. Ace had an option on Stross’s science fiction novels, and he wanted to sell something quickly. His agent said:
On the other hand, if you really want to write for a living, can you do something that isn’t specifically SF, so we can sell without breach of contract? Like, say, a big fat fantasy series?
So the series began looking like fantasy, and got to look more and more like SF as it went on, and as his contractual obligations changed. How did the readers feel about the SF cooties in their fantasy? I thought the geeky way the worldwalking was dealt with from the first thirty seconds in the first book was refreshingly nifty for fantasy, and this general attitude did mean that the reader wasn’t betrayed when the underpinnings showed up later. But I may not be typical here, I prefer SF anyway.
Another series that feels like this to me is Bujold’s Sharing Knife books. They’re on an odd intersection of genres anyway, having distinct elements of Western and Romance. They’re also post-apocalyptic fantasy—there was a big fantasy evil, way in the past, and it was only sort of defeated. So there are little evils—malices—showing up all over. This is fantasy, but the way it works, the way the malices moult and change is solid and logical and scientific. There’s magic, but the way they work with it is just as geeky and experimental as the way Stross treats worldwalking in The Family Trade. There’s a way in which what makes this come down firmly as fantasy is the covers, the marketing. If it was 1975, the covers would have said SF, and nothing else would be changed.
Finally, there’s Rosemary Kirstein’s Steerswoman series. These start off looking exactly like fantasy, standard medievaloid world, wizards, inns, barbarians. The annoying thing is that it’s a spoiler even to mention them in this context—consider yourself slightly spoiled. As the story goes on you find out slowly that this is science fiction, that a lot of the magic has to do with terraforming. In these books the slow process of revelation of what’s really going on—which I haven’t spoiled—is a large part of the joy of reading. This isn’t a case of "it has to look like X so it will sell" it’s an absolute requirement of the story that it be in the world it is in and the world be the way it is.
For most books, this is a labelling issue. You can slant things a little one way and call it SF, or the other way and call it fantasy. The writers are doing what will sell. Does anyone else care? Do you feel betrayed or delighted when you find out what’s under the sheep’s clothing?
Jo Walton is a science fiction and fantasy writer. She’s published eight novels, most recently Half a Crown and Lifelode, and two poetry collections. She reads a lot, and blogs about it here regularly. She comes from Wales but lives in Montreal where the food and books are more varied.
Tuesday March 16, 2010 11:13am EDT
Note: it's available as a free ebook, too!
VIEW ALL BY · Tuesday March 16, 2010 11:50am EDT
Mind, my tastes in reading fall on both sides of this imagined divide, so I wasn't particularly annoyed in either case. It just took a bit to figure out which particular set of reading skills to put in play.
VIEW ALL BY · Tuesday March 16, 2010 11:59am EDT
I tend to like genre crossing anyways. Gives ya more room to play.
VIEW ALL BY · Tuesday March 16, 2010 12:22pm EDT
For the next 15 years or so I pretty much read only Fantasy, and only afterwards have I gone back to SF, filling in what I missed in the interim. And now with Fantasy having switched to mostly Urban Fantasy, I'm pretty much done with it until the next revolution.
VIEW ALL BY · Tuesday March 16, 2010 12:25pm EDT
This sort of thing also goes way, way back. A lot of older stories, especially back in the pulp days, would dance back and forth across the line. Often it was an easy way to make a sale to Weird Tales. Fritz Leiber did it a few times; C.L. Moore did it a lot (Jirel of Jory is very much the grandmother of Cherryh's Morgaine).
Also, it was either Larry Niven or David Brin who said that Pern is provably science fiction, because when they learn about democracy, they adopt it.
Tuesday March 16, 2010 12:41pm EDT
Tuesday March 16, 2010 12:55pm EDT
VIEW ALL BY · Tuesday March 16, 2010 12:59pm EDT
Then there's that Janny Wurts novel (Stormwarden, was it?) which I threw at the wall because it did the switch so badly. If you're describing a fantasy world through the eyes of its inhabitants, you can't suddenly start describing a spaceship in modern technological terms. You can describe it in ways the characters would understand but which the reader can understand otherwise, but using SF terminology just jolts the reader out of their suspension of disbelief. (Well, it did me, anyway -- it's the only time I've ever thrown a book!)
VIEW ALL BY · Tuesday March 16, 2010 01:02pm EDT
You mean all that hard-SF interstellar war stuff that C.J. Cherryh writes, as opposed to the mushy romantic fantasies of Robert Jordan? :-)
Tuesday March 16, 2010 01:12pm EDT
You could also mention Sheri S. Tepper's True Game series, which is another SF-masquerading-as-fantasy, the origin of the "magic" being revealed over the course of the series. She's done a number of books with characters in backward, low-tech societies in an SF framework.
Niven & Gerrold played it for laughs in "The Flying Sorcerer", which is obviously SF, with its character from a high-tech society stranded on the primitive planet, but we see the whole book through the eyes of the pre-technological narrator. Clarke's Law, etc.
It may have been Ursula Le Guin who said that once you have hard and fast rules for how magic behaves, and how your magic system works, then it starts becoming science. Sometime it feels that way in Robert Jordan's series, where their use of the One Power is fairly technological, except that not everyone can do it; there are even flashbacks to a distant past where it is treated more like technology. There are other magical things happening which are less hard and fast (softer and slower?), though.
VIEW ALL BY · Tuesday March 16, 2010 01:14pm EDT
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Tuesday March 16, 2010 02:24pm EDT
I think there were other examples even earlier that I cannot now recall, but mostly in shorter fiction.
VIEW ALL BY · Tuesday March 16, 2010 02:33pm EDT
The enemy-opposite of this is the 'explain away' trick, which cheapens everything that went before. A lavishly imagined F->SF version of this which doesn't quite work for me is Tanith Lee's The Birthgrave. (Lee is, at her best, exceptionally good at saturating the gleaming lines of SF with fantastic-poetic sensibilities.) SF->F describes every lousy contemporary/ near-future scenario where it turns out that OH NOES OUR VAUNTED TECHNOLOGY IS BUT A VENEER ON FAIRY ATLANTEANS MESSING ABOUT!, or the like. If I'm not being very specific, it's because anything that strikes me that way tends to rocket back off my hands and onto the shelf unless it's wickedly original or funny.
I like the psi tradition in F/SF almost as much as I detest the belief in real life. It offers a fine tone control as useful as it is abusable. Dragonflight, for instance, always read to me like wildly fantastic SF. They have an interplanetary fungus problem of about Lovecraftian credibility, but I still never worried for one moment that Kylara was going to learn witchery from long-lost grimoires or F'nor was going to get eaten by Yog-Sothoth. The weakening of the later Pern books to me is entirely a dilution of mood: nothing happens that vitiates the initially conveyed nature of the universe, as far as I've read them. It's a rational place, not a mystical one.
Some likeness with fusion in music: lots of the best and the worst there, and not something to embark on inattentively.
Tuesday March 16, 2010 02:39pm EDT
As has been mentioned previously, magical systems can operate as a type of science. This can result in stories that end up walking the line between the two. The first four books of David Farland's Runelord series feel like fantasy, but the subsequent books have brought the story into more of the SF feeling realm for me at least.
Brandon Sanderson's Mistborn trilogy, Elantris and Warbreaker all have well defined and described magic systems. None of them have an explanation for the source of the fantastical elements and they could each swing from magic to mutations/psionics/etc. if Sanderson wanted to provide more clues or explanations - and I enjoy his stories.
Tuesday March 16, 2010 03:26pm EDT
I realize that there are people who would stop reading a book if they thought it was SF and it turned out to be fantasy, or vice versa. But there are probably more who would throw it across the room at a hamhanded plot twist.
VIEW ALL BY · Tuesday March 16, 2010 03:56pm EDT
Tuesday March 16, 2010 04:54pm EDT
Another example of sf as fantasy that I've enjoyed but no one has mentioned yet is Wen Spencer's Tinker books.
I like sf, I like fantasy, having both in one gives the author twice as much room to play, sometimes with results that are greater than the sum of the parts.
Tuesday March 16, 2010 05:50pm EDT
Or, as in my case, horrified to find sf polluting my f!
That's a joke, really, as a really good tale is a really good tale.
Love, C.
VIEW ALL BY · Tuesday March 16, 2010 06:20pm EDT
Take Peter A. David's Darkness of the Light, which was one of those titles Tor gave away for a while as an e-book. (I review it here.)
It starts out after earth has been invaded by all these alien races who look suspiciously like mythological creatures, complete with magical powers. It looks kind of like fantasy, but it's all treated as science-fiction. Aha, you think, it's really SF in drag, not really fantasy after all—any sufficiently-advanced technology and all that.
Then at the very end of the book, right before ending in a "this is actually part of a longer book published in chunks" cliffhanger, with much metaphorical screeching of tires, it throws in something right out of the fantasy playbook: the mysterious hyperdimensional power cells that power all the aliens' technology turn out to run on…well, I won't give it away, but it was every bit as jarring as if Star Trek suddenly revealed that the Enterprise's warp engines were actually powered by moon beams and fairy dust.
Come on, PAD, you can do better than that. :P
VIEW ALL BY · Tuesday March 16, 2010 06:38pm EDT
C12VT; could you say more (in ROT-13 if you like) about the different readings of The City and the City? I can only see one reading, and gung vf vaqrrq arvgure snagnfl abg FS - hayrff creuncf gur 'fpvrapr' va dhrfgvba vf cflpubybtl.
VIEW ALL BY · Tuesday March 16, 2010 08:39pm EDT
Science is too big for any of us to know and to stay current with. And something that the average reader would lack any information on can be most fantastic. In Dr. Pournelle's early books as by Wade Curtis - Red Heroin and Red Dragon he footnotes the science but peddles the notion of cheap but good affordable housing in the Seattle U-District out of whole cloth for IMHO the most fantastic notion in all of his writing.
I've seen an argument that a neutron star would never allow a build up to a big quake but after any first period of collapse would lack any faults to resolve (effectively total collapse - entropy no gravitational potential left over) and any faults left or arising would be so small and resolve so quickly that major quakes would be forestalled. When I asked him, Dr. Forward assured me once - circa 1990 - that the book was good science as of the then current date. Has the time travel been overtaken by current thinking? Or test?
I like fantastic elements - faster than light travel - to have some cloak of real science like Dr. Pournelle's Alderson Drive which is not ruled out by current knowledge however unlikely it be - and sustained by some faith - as Dr. Pournelle has in reality - that a benevolent power (such as gave us beer - Ben Franklin) will give us the possibility of FTL.
I'm very fond of Zelazny mostly ( I had hoped that in Madwand he would reverse himself and give the hard sciences supremacy over magical powers of the mind as in the short story (Limiting Factor?) where the psi-powered space ship is overtaken by a little man with big science) but I do wonder who or what magics away the sewage in Amber - by the terms of the story they surely aren't dumping sewage and garbage at sea and the sides of Kolvir should be running with rivers of brown. Now that's fantasy.
Tuesday March 16, 2010 08:55pm EDT
Diane Duane's "Stealing the Elf-King's Roses," where our Earth and Faery are two of some finite number (11, maybe?) universes. The main character is a "forensic lanthanomancer," and her partner, from an alternate universe, is a highly intelligent (PhD from UCLA) white wolf-like investigator, and someone is killing elves...
Also, Matthew Hughes's Henghis Hapthorn series is technically far-future SF, but has a fantasy-of-manners feel. Similarly, the main character is a detective.
VIEW ALL BY · Tuesday March 16, 2010 09:15pm EDT
Unknown attracted writers of science fiction, and many of its stories featured a rather science-fictional approach to fantasy. Magic had rules and logic, and its practitioners treated it something like engineering. Pratt and de Camp's Harold Shea stories, or Heinlein's "Magic, Inc.," are examples.
This is not exactly a crossover-- these stories are definitely fantasy and not SF-- but they're very different in tone from other fantasy of the time.
Even though the magazine died, the Unknown style lived on. A really good example written a couple of decades after its heyday is Poul Anderson's Three Hearts and Three Lions, where a modern engineer is catapulted into a fantasy world and finds that physics and chemistry help him deal with magical beings.
Once the fantasy boom got going, this kind of thing was assimilated, and it's pretty common these days.
VIEW ALL BY · Tuesday March 16, 2010 09:33pm EDT
Because it has SPACE VAMPIRES ON THE MOON.
VIEW ALL BY · Tuesday March 16, 2010 09:39pm EDT
VIEW ALL BY · Tuesday March 16, 2010 09:46pm EDT
Richard K Morgan's newest book, "The Steel Remains," treads that line. The fantasy strongly resembles science and one of the characters actually says something similar to the "the greatest science looks like magic" idea. It's still a fantasy novel to me but it contains hints of SF, too.
Tuesday March 16, 2010 10:03pm EDT
VIEW ALL BY · Wednesday March 17, 2010 01:57am EDT
Subverting genre always sounds cool, and it's always hard to get right. If you are Pablo Picasso or Dizzy Gillespie, you ought to and probably must. If OTOH you are Arts Student #3749 who wants to subvert genre like the great modern masters, because that to you is greatness in Arts, the same rule doesn't apply, and maybe first acquiring multiple genre mastery the regular way will please everybody better.
But Student #3750, whose good workhorse talent lies in the no-land between jazz and Morris dancing, will curse hell out of me and your advisors later, if she was so unhappy as to have taken the above for gospel. The jazz influence is, for her, only capable of making her compositions easier to sell, not harder - because there is what makes them worthwhile.
In F/SF, Mr #3749 is probably not such a big nuisance as he can be elsewhere. But how would I know, not having read the slushpiles? There is mastery before rebellion, and there is keeping the reader's attention dancing on the wire without the safety-net of convention, and there is marketing something that seamlessly transcends genre. I'd like to know in what proportions the difficulties for fledgling writers fall there; but from my damp-quilled point of view, it's mainly the first two I could do something about.
And as a reader... I'd far rather put my pennies on a new writer who'll shoot straight and true for the Sun. Bringing it down is beyond all requirement.
Wednesday March 17, 2010 02:42am EDT
C12VT, The City and the City might have been marketed as straight fiction if Mieville were not already a fantasy author. It reads more like the style of social allegory found in literary fiction than typical genre fantasy, don't you think? Like Kafka (but not so dark).
VIEW ALL BY · Wednesday March 17, 2010 05:09am EDT
Another interesting example is Melissa Scott's Silence Leigh trilogy - space opera with starships powered with something which clearly is magic.
As for The City and the City, I think it surely is fantasy or science fiction genre (as well as noir detective novel, of course) because gur cbjref bs gur Oernpu ner pyrneyl vzcbffvoyr va erny jbeyq.
Wednesday March 17, 2010 10:37am EDT
V nterr gung Gur Pvgl naq gur Pvgl pna or ernq nf znvafgernz be nyyrtbevpny. Vg'f qrsvavgryl abg glcvpny traer fs be s. Ohg V guvax n fs be s ernqvat vf cbffvoyr: vs lbh nffhzr gung gur fcyvg orgjrra Orfmry/Hy Dbzn vf erny, gura vg unf gb unir n pnhfr, naq gung pnhfr pbhyq or rvgure zntvp (gur snagnfl ernqvat) be grpuabybtvpny (gur fs ernqvat). V nqzvg gur fs ernqvat vf zber bs n fgergpu, ohg gurer ner gur fgenatr grpu-ybbxvat negvsnpgf sbhaq va gur nepurbybtvpny qvtf juvpu pbhyq uvag ng guvf. Nyfb, Oernpu'f cbjref bs bofreingvba qb frrz bire gur gbc naq pbhyq or nggevohgrq va cneg gb zntvp be uvtu grpu - be whfg gb tbbq pheeragyl ninvynoyr grpu naq n cflpubybtvpnyyl znavchyngrq cbchynpr. Gur obbx arire tvirf lbh rabhtu qngn gb pbapyhqr. V guvax guvf jnf vagragvbany.
Bar guvat V yvxrq nobhg guvf obbx jnf gung ynpx bs rkcynangvba znqr gur frggvat zber erny - va n ybg bs fs be s frggvatf, gur cebgnt trgf gb qvfpbire gur frperg jnl gur jbeyq jbexf, ohg gur nirentr qravmra bs fnvq jbeyq jbhyq erznva vtabenag. Va Gur Pvgl naq gur Pvgl, jr'er yvivat guvf vtabenapr. Vg'f nyy dhrfgvbaf naq srj nafjref, juvpu vf obgu sehfgengvat naq serrvat.
V bayl erterg gung V'z abg snzvyvne rabhtu jvgu gur abve traer gb erpbtavmr jurer Zvrivyyr vf naq vfa'g fgvpxvat gb gubfr traer rkcrpgngvbaf.
Wednesday March 17, 2010 11:03am EDT
V gubhtug gung gur Pvgl naq gur Pvgl ghearq bhg gb or hanzovthbhfyl zhaqnar ng gur raq. Gur Oernpu unf vgf cbjre orpnhfr gur vaunovgnagf bs Orfmry/Hy Dbzn tvir gurz gung cbjre. Gur qhnyvgl bs gur pvgl vf fbzrguvat orgjrra n phfgbz naq n pbafrafhny unyyhpvangvba.
Lbh pbhyq cnefr guvf nf fs, jvgu gur fpvrapr orvat tebhc cflpubybtl be heona orunivbe engure guna grpuabybtl.
Ohg gung bayl orpnzr pyrne gb zr ng gur raq. V nyfb yvxrq gur jnl gung gur angher bs Orfmry/Hy Dbzn jnf xrcg nzovthbhf sbe fb ybat. Abg bayl qvq vg jbex jvguva gur fgbel, ohg vg xrcg gur obbx vgfrys sebz frggyvat vagb nal cnegvphyne traer qvivfvbaf naq aneengvir rkcrpgngvbaf, juvpu jnf n ovt cneg bs gur vagrerfg sbe zr.
VIEW ALL BY · Wednesday March 17, 2010 11:51am EDT
I would say that that is a reason to provably classify it as fantasy.
VIEW ALL BY · Wednesday March 17, 2010 01:27pm EDT
V nterr jvgu Frgu R gung gur frcnengvba vf na vyyhfvba: ohg V guvax gung npghnyyl orpbzrf nccnerag orsber gur raq.
Gb fgneg jvgu V gubhtug gung gurer jnf fbzr xvaq bs fcnpr-gvzr nabznyl, fb gung gur gjb pvgvrf bpphcvrq qvssrerag fcnprf nygubhtu gurl jrer ng gur fnzr cbvag ba gur rnegu'f fhesnpr - naq gung, nf P12IG fnlf, pbhyq unir rvgure n fpvrapr-svpgvbany be n snagnfgvp rkcynangvba. Va gung pnfr cerfhznoyl bar bayl vf va qnatre bs frrvat crbcyr ba gur bgure fvqr, naq unf gb 'hafrr' gurz, va fcrpvny pnfrf jurer sbe fbzr ernfba gur qvivfvba jrnef guva.
Ohg nf lbh ernq ba gurer ner nyy fbegf bs guvatf gung qba'g svg gung ernqvat - gur genssvp nppvqragf, gur crbcyr va bar pvgl fgrccvat bire crbcyr va gur bgure va gur cnex, gur pbafvtazrag bs qehtf yrsg ol gur envyjnl genpxf - gur envyjnl orvat va obgu pvgvrf - gur pebffungpurq qvfgevpgf jurer ohvyqvatf va bar pvgl fgnaq fvqr-ol-fvqr jvgu (abg va rknpgyl gur fnzr fcbg nf) ohvyqvatf va gur bgure. (V guvax guvf orpnzr pyrne gb zr jura V ernq nobhg gur qvfgevpg gung vf abg pbeffungpurq ohg ybbxf nf vs vg jrer.) Fb va gur raq V qrpvqrq gung gur gjb pvgvrf bpphcl bar fcnpr, orvat ragjvarq jvgu bar nabgure, naq gur 'hafrrvat' vf tbvat ba nyy gur gvzr - naq bapr V fgnegrq ernqvat vg gung jnl rirelguvat sryy vagb cynpr. Pregnvayl vg orpbzrf zber nccnerag ng gur raq, jurer gur cebgntbavfg wbvaf Oernpu, ohg V guvax vg jnf nyjnlf gurer.
(Oh, and I agree it could have been sold as mainstream if the author weren't a well-known fantasy writer. I think there have been several works recently of which that is true. It's well-known that this happens the other way round, so seeing this is quite striking.)
Wednesday March 17, 2010 01:42pm EDT
My point is that the reason it's hard to get "right" is that there are significant fractions of the SF/F genre audience that don't much care for one or the other flavors, and their enthusiasm for even the most masterful achievements in crossing the streams is diminished accordingly. This reduces the size of the potential audience for such works severely.
If you're one of those people, like me, who enjoys seeing attempts to challenge established convention on general principle, then you're probably in the minority. A lot of people aren't like that.
VIEW ALL BY · Wednesday March 17, 2010 03:36pm EDT
Yes, I am like you in that way. My other internet persona is a goat, and I know that is an outlier type. It's fun! But I know how it feels to like convention done well, too, and I don't always like to see it smacked in the face with a gauntlet. There's challenge by defiance, and there's challenge by seduction.
Charlie, whose work kicked off this discussion, was smacking fantasy in the face with a gauntlet - he talks explicitly about rejecting its consolatory aspect, because he is a flaming liberal, and he objects to consoling people with idealized versions of power-relations he (and I) consider somewhere between stupid and evil. A traditional fantasy reading of the Merchant Princes is bound to feel shrunk-souled and abrasive in consequence - it takes me some active work to avoid it, and I don't read that series fast.
I like challenge by seduction. With F->SF, this means keeping the things people read trad fantasy for - consolation, rootedness, human scale, lyrical beauty and mystical awe - and carrying them all through to the SFnal vision of challenge, novelty, impersonal grandeur, rational ingenuity and clear-eyed Eureka. It means saying, at some gut level, "And these things are one." The psi trope is one imperfect but powerful aid to that.
Leigh Brackett, Eric Frank Russell in quieter moods, early Pern, Darkover, Lee & Miller's Liaden books, Tanith Lee's SFnal tone poems like Day by Night, Diane Duane's hyper-geeky wizardry, Mercedes Lackey's systematized and bureaucratized Talents, great swathes of Zelazny... Oh, it can be done, and done popularly. But even for a master, it's hard to accomplish any sort of marriage if there isn't honest love on both sides.
Which is why I respect Charlie's Merchant Princes stuff and will probably read all of it SFnally and eventually, but gobble down his Laundry spy-fantasies as fast as he can write them. They're in the fantasy subgenre where his gauntlet makes just the right clatter when it hits the ground.
Specifically, Lovecraftiana.
Wednesday March 17, 2010 05:54pm EDT
Pregnvayl gur fcyvg orgjrra pvgvrf frrzrq zhaqnar nyy nybat. Vg jnf fcrpvsvpnyyl gur Oernpu gung frrzrq gb zr gb or cbffvoyl snagnfgvpny evtug hagvy gur raq. V gubhtug Zvrivyyr znvagnvarq gung onynapr dhvgr jryy.
Va trareny, guvf jnf bar bs gur srj obbxf V'ir ernq erpragyl gung jnf znqr zber fngvfslvat ol gur pyvznk.
Friday March 19, 2010 02:26pm EDT
I also found it interesting in the sense that so far (I'm at 2/3rd), it's roughly at the end of the spectrum past Richard Morgan and approaching Peter Watts and Octavia Butler in the "limits of human capability" pessimism. It's also extremely ambitious in assigning burdens of personal knowlege to the reader...I don't think there is a huge group of people who'd be able to appreciate the thai-ness of the narrative or why the economy would work as it does, or has read Amy Chua. Not to even approach the relatively extreme sophistication (for sf) that race is handled. At first I thought I had another McAuley's Quiet War, which pissed me off...
That book is probably too condensed, which is why it feels so much more like steampunk than scifi proper.
Saturday March 20, 2010 02:25pm EDT
I remember a talk at a con decades ago, I think the speaker was Brin. He explained that the Dragonriders of Pern was SF because the people didn't feel that their world was idyllic except for the evil thing. They worked at advancing their science and embraced change and the tech they found.
The two books I always think of when contemplating of the SF/Fantasy divide are "Master of the Five Magics" where magic is treated with the rigor of science, and "The Deed of Paksenarrion" where the usual fantasy gloss over living conditions is substantially removed. The characters trudge on foot through a fairly realistic landscape and dig latrines when they make camp.
VIEW ALL BY · Thursday March 25, 2010 05:02pm EDT
And speaking of blurring the boundaries, I'm just now re-reading Delany's Nova, with it's galaxy-spanning 32nd-century cyborg civilization where everyone takes the Tarot seriously, except for a handful of old Earth people who stick to their millennium-old materialist superstitions.