Tue
Nov 11 2008 2:42pm
Where’s the Latin American Science Fiction?

Commenting on one of my , said that he “would love to hear from anyone who knows of any non-U.S. and non-European SF that reflects a complementary view from what used to be called ‘the developing world.’”1

He’s not alone. Where are the science-fiction authors that aren’t from the United States and Europe? Why aren’t they as well-known as their U.S. and European peers?

This week, late to the party as usual, I finally got a hold of my first anthology to try to get at this question, a book from 2003 called Cosmos Latinos: An Anthology of Science Fiction from Latin America and Spain. I confess that I’ve only just begun to read the stories in the book, but a comment in the introduction is worth mentioning all by itself. According to the editors,

most bookstores in Latin America and Spain that do have a science fiction section stock mostly translations into Spanish or Portuguese of the European and North American classics. Regional authors are not yet being seriously cultivated by publishers, who see little profitability in marketing domestic SF, both because there is insufficient demand for it among the local book-buying public, and because most people’s familiarity with SF has come by way of Hollywood blockbusters and therefore, by extension, for any SF to be “good” it must be imported…. Significant cultural and economic barriers still need to be overcome so that [Spanish and Latin American SF] may enjoy the wider readership at home and abroad that they deserve.

The editors go on argue that a strong domestic tradition of science fiction exists in Spain and Latin America, and from its description, it functions an awful lot like the U.S. tradition does. Yet economics rears its head again as a dominant force in Latin American SF’s marginalization, this time at the macroeconomic level: “Texts from Argentina, Cuba, Brazil, Mexico, and Spain make up the bulk of this anthology,” the editors say, in part because there are energetic communities of writers and readers in those countries—but also because the “comparatively robust economies of … the countries … have enabled them to sustain lively publishing industries.”

In other words, to take the flip side of the editors’ argument, we don’t hear much from science fiction writers from poorer countries—El Salvador, Nicaragua, Bolivia—in part because there aren’t science fiction publishing houses there; or if there are, they don’t have the clout to spread their authors’ names farther than their own borders.

I don’t know enough to truly assess the accuracy of the editors’ argument, but the part of their explanation regarding the existence of publishers seems plausible. You hear similar statements outside of science fiction, regarding the relative scarcity (obscurity?) of, say, African novelists. And it makes a great deal of sense that publishing houses simply can’t thrive in places where very few people have the disposable income to buy books in the first place.

A morsel from the first part of their argument, however, nags at me a little—that “regional authors are not yet being seriously cultivated by publishers, who see little profitability in marketing domestic SF … because there is insufficient demand for it.” Does this statement hold as true for the U.S. market for Latin American science fiction?

At first glance, the answer would seem to be yes; it’s telling, for example, that Cosmos Latinos was put out by an academic press (go Wesleyan!) rather than a commercial science fiction house. But is there really insufficient demand for science fiction—or fiction in general—from beyond our borders?2 Are there really cultural barriers to U.S. and European audiences enjoying science fiction from other parts of the world? And apart from translation costs, are the economic barriers to Tor or Del Rey publishing the work of someone living in Paraguay as high as they used to be—even in 2003?


1. It’s my understanding that the term developing world—as well as developing country, and for that matter, least-developed country—is still in widespread use. Rogeronthehill is absolutely right, however, that these are ugly terms. I wish there was a better word to describe them, one that doesn’t carry the hint of prescription.

2. David del Vecchio, owner of Idlewild Books in New York, doesn’t think so, according to this recent Bookslut with him. He argues that American audiences would be just as receptive to translated works as to works written in English: “I think customers are just looking for a good read and that we have to promote translated works the same way we promote anything else we really love.”

44 comments
David G. Hartwell
1. David G. Hartwell
First of all, it costs about $15,000 to translate a novel. Since the ordinary advance for a novel is about half that, if you pay the translated writer nothing, your non-recoverable costs are already twice what publishing a domestic novel costs initially. And of course you want to pay the author too, so costs go higher. Bluntly, it is not that translations do not sell, it is that they do not sell three times as well as the average SF or fantasy, to match average income. That's quite a barrier.

Secondly, del Vecchio is utterly wrong. he may feel that way, but the fact is that if the book is revealed to be a translation, just the reverse of the effect you mention in SA applies: it is seen as somehow not the real thing by a significant portion of the usual audience.

So it is a rare translation that makes a profit in the US.

I keep devoting effort to finding ways to publish translations of worthy works, but usually they lose money, so I can't get away with it very often. University presses get away with it by using grant money, which is generally available for genre fiction from a commercial press.

I wish it were different.
Pablo Defendini
2. pablodefendini
I can certainly attest to the prevalence of the "if it's not imported, it must suck" ethos within Latin American media markets, particularly in countries directly influenced by the U.S., such as Puerto Rico.

The effect is most prevalent in film, to a lesser degree in printed media, and to an even lesser degree in music—the spectre of five-hundred years of cultural colonialism still looms large, much to everyone's detriment.

While mainstream popular literature has mostly gotten over this hump, I think that genre books suffer to a degree closer to that of film, where translated Hollywood imports are the norm of the day (with exceptions, to be sure—most notably Spanish and Mexican cinema), and home-grown efforts are looked upon as second-rate pastiche, often unfairly.
Brian Slattery
3. brianslattery
@ 1: Thanks so much for laying out the business end of the business so clearly. It's refreshing to get an actual number for the cost of translation out there, as opposed to a vague adjective (e.g., "prohibitive"), and what you say makes a lot of sense.

Do you think that there are also cultural barriers to U.S. and European audiences enjoying science fiction from other regions? This is the part of the editors' argument that I can't make as much sense of, particularly as I've started to read the stories themselves. They don't seem all that inaccessible to me, and I don't flatter myself that I'm so familiar with Spanish and Latin American culture that such barriers wouldn't be a problem. Of course, this could be due to careful selection on the editors' part, but you see what I'm getting at.
- -
4. heresiarch
It seems like it's at least partially just parochialism. Otherwise why would there be any difference between the American and British fields?
David G. Hartwell
5. Derryl Murphy
Certainly there is less money available in many of these countries for this sort of thing, but I wonder if there are any arts organizations in some Latin American nations that would be able to help with translation costs, just as sometimes the Canada Council (and I suspect the Quebec equivalent, although someone like Elisabeth Vonarburg or Jean-Louis Trudel would be able to speak better to that than I).

Back in the day, before I was involved with them (1994, sez Google), On Spec published a short story by Brazilian author Braulio Tavares. I know I'd like to see more of that sort of thing, novels and short fiction.

D
David G. Hartwell
6. Derryl Murphy
Oops. Didn't finish a sentence: "just as sometimes the Canada Council does."

D
David Lev
7. davidlev
I can only speak for myself when I say I would be VERY interested in reading fantasy and sci fi from other countries. Japanese manga (most of whom that get published in the US have some sort of science fictional or fantastical element to them) does pretty good here in the US, but then again Japan is a 1st world country which has big companies to push its products. I think there was a definite niche market for the Night Watch books from Russia, helped along by the movies.

I'm sure people would be intrigued enough by sf or fantasy from other countries, the problem would be that it's quite possible not enough people would be interested
David G. Hartwell
8. David G. Hartwell
@3:Clarifications on the editorial argument (which is a series of observations, not a belief system): If we are talking fiction, there is no substantial difference among cultures, only different flavors and approaches (and sometimes verb tenses). Even then, the French contemporary novel, for instance, is not in general as successful in the US in translation as the general commercial names of English Language fiction. If we are speaking genre, then the differences are clear and not subtle. Most national literatures do not share the cultural assumptions of American lit, and therefore, in particular, do not share the characteristic genre assumptions. So while a magic realist story might be fine lit, it is rarely (strictly speaking never) following American genre codes and is therefore not like genre and not appealing to much of the genre audience. Not all, I hasten to add, but enough so that it increases the difficulty.
Jo Walton
10. bluejo
I am reluctant to read translations, and the reason for that is the number of times I've read clunky ones. I'm not reading what the author has written, I'm reading it filtered through someone else's perception. There are brilliant translators -- Kandel's Lem, for instance, and Brierley's Vonarburg -- but not all of them can be. A work of wonderful prose in the original translated into competent but plodding English just isn't appealing, and in the ordinary way of things that's what I know I'm going to get.

When I was seventeen or eighteen, I read an American translation of War and Peace. I loved it to bits. I went around loudly proclaiming how much better Tolstoy was than Dickens. (This must have been nice for my friends, who spent a lot of time hearing how much better Zelazny was than Dickens, but never mind.) Then I tried to read Constance Garnett's turgid translation of Anna Karenina and couldn't get through it. I've also had the same problem with Livy -- Livy's is funny and entertaining in Latin, but a bit of a bore in English, if what you have is the de Selincourt Penguin Classic edition. As for Plato, for goodness sake get the Everyman, the Penguin Plato is a shadow on the wall.

When this is the case for classic out of print writers who anyone can translate and you can get competing translations, how much more is it going to be the case for a modern novel? I know from friends who translate that they get assigned a book and have to do it at great speed whether they like it or not. $15,000 may seem like a huge amount of money to the publisher, but is it enough for a translator to live on for six months while they give the book their full attention?

Also, my books have been translated into quite a few languages. Some of my translators have contacted me with questions. Some of the questions have led me to believe that the translators are utterly unfamiliar with SF and Fantasy expectations -- one of the translators of Tooth and Claw wanted everything to be an exact analogy. Even if they write brilliant prose in their own languages, people buying those books are not getting what I wrote if the translator didn't understand it.

For me to buy a translation I need to either have read something by the translator before -- as in Le Guin's translation of Kalpa Imperial -- or to be personally assured by someone who has read that translation that it's not going to be disappointing.
R O T
11. rogerothornhill
First, BS, thanks for listening. Second, thanks for the rec. (In the last few months, Tor.com has extraordinarily enlarged my discretionary reading list.) Third, cost permitting, isn't there an opening here for a niche market? All selective genre fans are snobs anyway. If Tor, DelRey, or whoever set up a special imprint--"International Imaginations" or whatever--they could commission six translations as a pilot, one every two months for a year, just to see if the market is there. As Vintage and other presses have learned over the last twenty years, if you package something as selective and special, you frequently create a market. Speaking for myself, I would probably subscribe to such a series, much like Hard Case.
Fernando da Silva Trevisan
12. fstrevisan
Hi fellows,

I'm a SF fan born in Brazil. I've joined the "local fandom" about two years ago and made contact with a lot of authors, publishers and other fans.

First: inside the fandom, there are a lot of people wanting to read local authors. Outside the fandom, even translated SF does not do well on sales.

These last two years we watched some changes - more local publishing, new on-line magazines, new fans joining the fandom. But it's still hard - some books have only 300 copies editions, making them more costly and hard to sell. The efforts in distribution and marketing are lousy, to the best.

I - and some others too - think local authors have to go "international". Trying to write in English - or hiring a translator - and to publish, even if not charging at all, outside Brazil. This is a way to get into Brazilian's editors, but it's not safe. Even André Carneiro and Braulio Tavares - two that were published in Cosmos Latinos and are widely recognized as great writers - have some difficulties to publish and do not get their SF published by the big publishing houses here.

People are trying to use Internet to publish, get acceptance and go on to "print publishing". These efforts are kind of new so we can't see the return yet, but Internet publishing is great here: there are at last three regular ezines with great quality and a lot of other initiatives going on.

Two guys trying to do the "bridge" between the markets are Fábio Fernandes and Jacques Barcia, at their "Post-weird thoughts", an English written blog talking to the English fandom.

Fabio is kind of omnipresent here in Brazil, pulling together events, magazines - like Terra Incognita that published new translations of Ekaterina Sedia and Charles Stross - and reflecting about the genre on and off-line (as in his column at the Le Monde Diplomatique Brazil).

So, if the economic crisis doesn't kill these efforts and people don't split away, I hope you'll hear from Brazilian writers any time soon :)
Fabio Fernandes
13. fabiofernandes
Hi folks!

First of all, I would like to thank Brian for this excellent post, and Fernando for the kind comments on Terra Incognita. Much appreciated!

Second, I tend to agree with David Hartwell. That´s why me and Jacques are writing in English. I haven´t given up the Brazilian market (which, alas, is very much prejudiced when it comes to SF literature in Portuguese; the greatest fad here now is vampire novels - not horror novels, mind you, but only vampire ones.

I think we Latin Americans can contribute with fresh views and insights to SF literature. I´ve been reading many New Weird authors that use plenty of Latin motifs in their writings. And let´s not forget the latest Hugo nominee, Ian McDonald´s BRASYL. I only wish a Brazilian guy had written that book. :-)

But there´s plenty of time. I´m trying US and Europe market right now. It´ll take some time, but I´m pretty confident I can publish my stories there eventually.
Jo Walton
14. bluejo
Fabio Fernandez: What did you think of McDonald's Brasyl? I've been wondering what a Brazilian would make of it.

I wonder whether it would be possible to do something -- an anthology, a chapbook, a magazine special issue, something -- using a story set in that universe by Ian McDonald (who is a really nice guy, and who does write short stuff too) and some stories in translation (or written in English) by you and other Brazilian writers and call it something like "Angles on Brazil". I'd buy that.
Jeffrey Richard
15. neutronjockey
15K and six months to translate?
What?!

Cienca Ficcion can't be ignored. Can publishing afford to ignore a market that is screaming for attention. Chile for example has a great SF tradition that is just.now.emerging.

I'm googling for the article I read several months ago but the language vector geeks have calculated the number of Spanish speaking Americans to exceed the number of English speaking Americans somewhere around 2020. I was absolutely PO'd Wednesday when I went to my local Brick 'n Mortar and found less than a shelf-worth of translated works (I was looking specifically for SFF and literature works in Spanish). In a city with a visible Hispanic community less than one shelf --- half of which was the Santa Biblia.

Come on...
Jacques Barcia
16. Jacques_Barcia
I wish there were more Latin-American authors published in the English-speaking markets. And I hope there's a trend in "foreign" authors like Ekaterina Sedia, Zoran Zivkovic, Tobias Buckell, etc., being published. Of course they weren't translated, but I guess their success says something.

Bluejo, I loved Brasyl. I reviwed it here: http://verbeat.org/blogs/pwt/2008/08/the-hugo-finalists-novels-part-1.html . And hey...that antho's a great idea.:D
Fabio Fernandes
17. fabiofernandes
Bluejo, I liked McDonald's Brasyl - but not as much as Jacques. ;-)

>I've been wondering what a Brazilian would make of it.

That´s an excellent point: Brazil is a VERY large country, with quite different cultures sharing the same territory. Take my case: I´m from Rio de Janeiro (a really beautiful place, sunny and full of beaches and beautiful people) and I´m currently living in São Paulo (the biggest city in Latin America, much more cosmopolitan than Rio, a great place to make a living - and a city that I love!)

Jacques, on the other hand, lives in Recife, one of the prettiest cities in the Northeastern region of Brasil. Recife was colonized not only by the Portuguese, but also by the Dutch in the 17h Century, and that makes it a singular, multiethnical, multicultural city.

I liked McDonald´s book, but I felt at the same time deeply frustrated for the fact that nobody here (including me, sure) hadn´t even thought of writing something like that. (Of course, Ian McDonald only deserve kudos for this novel, he´s most definitely not the object of my rant. ;-)


>I wonder whether it would be possible to do something -- an anthology, a chapbook, a magazine special issue, something -- using a story set in that universe by Ian McDonald (who is a really nice guy, and who does write short stuff too) and some stories in translation (or written in English) by you and other Brazilian writers and call it something like "Angles on Brazil". I'd buy that.


Now THAT´s an interesting angle...
David G. Hartwell
18. Cheryl Morgan
The best way to find out what is happening with regard to SF is other countries is to actually visit a few. They have conventions too, sometimes quite impressive ones.

As some of you will know, I'm a regular attendee at Finncon. That might not at first sight seem to have much to do with Latin America, but one of the friends I made there was Tanja Tynjala, who is Peruvian by birth but married to a Finn. She gave an excellent presentation on Latin American SF.

The short version is that there is plenty of it, and it thrives because the Spanish-speaking world is large enough for their science fiction to be economic without the need for translation into English. Contrast that with the Finns whose home market is very small.

If you can read Spanish then you can connect with the community through web sites such as Axxon and Velero 25. I gather that there has been an annual convention in Tlaxaca, Mexico since 1997, and that should be accessible to US-based fans. Sergio Gaut Vel Hartman, one of the top writers in Argentina, has just friended me on Facebook and his English is pretty good.

If you want books to read, Daina Chaviano's The Island of Eternal Love is newly available in English translation, and of course their is Ursuala Le Guin's translation of Angelica Gorodischer's classic Kalpa Imperial.

There is also contact between Latin America and Spain. Gay Haldeman speaks good Spanish, and she and Joe have attended conventions in Spain. She's even done some translations of short fiction.

As the original question was about SF outside of the "developed world" I should that there is a thriving SF community in India (check out Jeff VanderMeer's blog for the guest posts a few weeks back from Vandana Singh). Also there is a huge market for SF in China which we say a little of thanks to the convention the Chinese organized the week before the Yokohama Worldcon. Locus reported extensively on that.
Andy Leighton
19. andyl
Thanks Cheryl for the pointer to a very interesting post. For those who want a direct link click here

Does anyone know anything about the state of SF writing in Africa?
Larry N.
20. Larry
OK, I'm a little late to this conversation (thanks to Fábio for linking to this on his blog, or else I would have missed it), but hopefully I can contribute a little bit.

I'm an American Anglo who has had a growing interest in Spanish-language lit, including SF/F. David's point about the translation costs is a very good one, although I am surprised that it is only $15K/year, considering many translators for non-fiction pieces are paid around $25-50/hr. in much of the US. Also, it is true that I would rather read the SF in the original language whenever possible, but...for a great many people in the Anglo-American markets, that just isn't possible at this time. Furthermore, one point that hasn't been made is that, uneven as it is, in the world of Amazon, a greater percentage of these texts are available for a semi-reasonable price to foreigners (even if it costs me $30 to buy a hardcover in Spain and $25 for the shipping costs).

All that being said, I do believe there are ways that Spanish/Latin American authors in particular can be marketed in the US. One is to do what Random House has done with certain "big names" and that is create a Spanish-language section geared toward Anglo-American bilinguals and towards Latinos currently living in the US market, for example. If that were expanded, with some passing mention in the quarterly catalogs, it might be able to draw some attention (and money) without the translation costs. But one could also use that to herald a release in translation 6-18 months later that might lead to a bump in potential sales due to increased awareness of the book.

I also like the idea of having more anthologies released. I did enjoy the SFWA European Masters one that the Morrows released last year and if there were occasional ones released for Latin American/Spanish authors it would help a great deal as well. In addition, highlighting the common ideas in these translated stories might also lead to more interest. I know I have received many comments from readers after my reviews of Carlos Ruiz Zafón and Javier Negrete about how they wished they could read those stories right now...if they were only available to them in a language they could understand.

So in the end, I think it is more of a matter of developing a market and to raise reader awareness of these authors than anything else. Perhaps a program similar to the Reading the World consortium could be done in genre circles to promote outstanding non-English literature? I know I would be more than willing to cover that, as a few here could attest...
David G. Hartwell
21. Sergio Gaut vel Hartman
I will try to make my English comprehensible, although I think Cheryl is too generous with my English. I’ve been writing and publish for almost 40 years and I've noticed the oscillations of interest in the fantastic in our language area. During my chats with another readers and authors I found less interesting in other literature, in our case if we’re lucky to be translated. I believe that the diagnosis of David Hartwell is hard and accurate. But as we regret, is always better knowing the real situation than ignores it. It’s a complex matter. Translations seem to be expensive, the market for fiction is small, and interest from readers by the works of other languages is reduced. On the other hand, it is important to note that not always speak the same thing when we say SF. The genre at least in Argentina, influenced by Borges, Cortazar and Gorodischer, has been freed from many of the traditional conventions and is closer to the “slipstream” of the SF. I have compiled several anthologies of short stories and in them I have tried to collect stories of traditional or new SF stories much closer to the great tradition we might call "borgiana." Although, as noted by the professor Pablo Capanna, the Argentineans are writing SF from the imported SF and not from science, it is also true that we have tried to develop our own forms of expression and that is what we would like that readers of other languages to understand: that when reading Latin American literature fantastic will not find refried themes and situations in the Anglo-Saxon SF, but another vision, another point of view, an “complementary view from what used to be called 'the developing world'” as well Brian Slattery said.
My proposal is as following: Argentinean professional translators, to a very less cost for the American publishers, could accomplish the translation job from Spanish to English. These translators are often authors of fictions.

This is just to introduce myself. I hope my English is reasonable clear to you and that I can to participate in this interesting debate.
Larry N.
22. Larry
Not to change the topic, but Sergio, I'm curious - who are some of the authors writing in a "borgiana" style? I'm familiar with the McOndo writers of Chile and Bolivia, but if something like that is developing in Argentinian SF, I'd love to know, even if it would cost me a fortune to import them.

As for your English, it was clear enough. I'm really curious to read about these "complentary points of view."
Sergio Gaut vel Hartman
23. sergiogvh
Hi, Larry.
I was the literary director of Axxón for more than three years. Then I returned to Sinergia, now on the web. For several months I work in three blogs of flash fiction. In all cases there is a lot of fiction that you can read online without having to spend a fortune to import books. I can also give you links of this sites and to many stories I've written, some of them in English or French. But I prefer to do this in private because others maybe are not interested. My address is:

sergiogvh(at)nuevasinergia(dot)ar
Larry N.
24. Larry
Cool! I'll send you an email shortly.
Cristina Lasaitis
25. cristinalasaitis
Hey guys,

I've just published a collection of SF and Fantasy short stories in Brazil, with no more than 300 copies, and it have been really hard to put these books to sell in the bookstores. There is something about Brazilian book market that makes it almost unreachable for native begginer writers - and this usually don't have anything to do with quality, the best writers may be faded to die in anonymity.
Brazilian (few) fiction readers always privilege the international authors. Sounds like: "the others' things are always better than ours". I don't know if this a matter of low self-steem, maybe it applies for the international public either.

I'm thinking seriously in publishing something abroad, especialy in english, as way to overcome the barriers I see in my own country. There may be a viable and not-so-expensive-way to do this kind of exchange. I should say that if you want to read, we're eager to be read.
zaphod beetlebrox
26. platypus rising
By the way,Sergio,I check regularly the often sf themed químicamente impuro microfiction site (to which you contribute often)-very nice!
Sergio Gaut vel Hartman
27. sergiogvh
I wrote my address incorrectly. Sorry.

sergiogvh(at)nuevasinergia(dot)com(dot)ar
David G. Hartwell
28. Kirk McElhearn
Ah, the proverbial problem...

I'm an American writer (non-fiction) and translator living in France. I tried, back in the day, to translate a bunch of French science fiction (notably Pierre Bordage (http://www.mcelhearn.com/article.php?story=20040929104057341) in order to get US publishers interested. And what did I hear? The same old story. "What, we have to pay for the rights _and_ the translations.?" As David Hartwell pointed out, translations cost - I think his estimate of $15K is unrealistic, because it depends on the length of the book, but good translations may cost even more. One poster mentions clunky translations; in this business, we tend to say that if you pay peanuts you get monkeys.

This attitude is not only in the SF genre, but across the board. US publishers will rarely pay for translations, because they are "too expensive". But that's not the reason; it's because publishers don't care about midlist books that can recover their investment over a number of years, but have to pay it off in a few months. They no longer want to cultivate new ideas, or, if they do, they pay peanuts: as Hartwell suggests, a novel gets an advance of around $7.5K for novice writers.

Personally, I've pretty much given up. US publishers really don't care (aside from a few rare cases), and even though most other countries have grant systems that can help fund translations, the US publishers expect to have everything paid for. It's a shame, but that's the way the economics of publishing works. You guys have given up on caring about other cultures. That's life.

Kirk
David G. Hartwell
29. png
Passable translation and translators are rare because all genre is written with cultural nuance in the original language. A story could be 1,000 years in the future, but writers use present-day slang and idioms.

Translating that tone into the target language with correct cultural markers requires deep understanding of both cultures, plus exceptional writing talent.

It's the same for movies. I've lived in Japan for over 17 years and have yet to see a Hollywood movie with a good translation. There are too many American concepts, dialogue, actions and reactions that don't translate well across cultures. Of course, there aren't too many good Hollywood movies in the original language, either...

Filtering the cultural bias in prose and dialogue dilutes the original, and the true flavor of the original work rarely passes to the target audience.
roman bruni
30. romanbruni
i'm a script analyst and screenplay teacher
at ParadigmaDigital.net in Rio de Janeiro Brazil
looking for young bold funny extra exotic
latin writers of Science Fiction
to produce films, animation, tv shows...
BUT, most of the texts i get are too obviously attacking some major theme, using storytelling
as medium. sentimental agents to get a political reaction... the story as support for a discourse
instead of the story as exploration.

that's why we don't see writers going far from their desks: public want something that mixes information, science and entertainment.

i loved to read all above comments because it would be very good to read those mentioned. how should we distribute links of the online published ?

about the translation cost, i beg your pardon to differ: if the story would be absolutely in sync with some star vehicle need, with some publishing house demographics, there would be a raging race
to buy the text, the author, family and neighbours: because the market is growing beyond Los Angeles !
the global market is by definition outside our local culture, so, i need to enrich my brazillian text with something extra to get my sensory richness across the other language.

salt is salty everywhere. as script analyst i've helped some people to get across cultural barriers.
and i agree that the economical financial model must be re-invented for our benefit. but where are the commercial minded artistic writers with enterpreneur skills ? please respond !!!

i suppose that we could do like Metal Hurlant did
and just publish and publish until we reach better commercially & artistic. or perhaps we might as well write the next ''ugly betty'' flavour.

meanwhile, i'm looking for authors to try sci fi
filmmaking. roman(at)paradigmadigital.net
David G. Hartwell
31. Andy Sawyer
A fascinating discussion, which raises a few questions about the difference between sf and other genres. Over the past couple of years, I've seen a number of reviews of translations of non-English language crime novels. And closer to "home" there have been some quite high-profile translation of Russian/Polish *Fantasy*. But why not science fiction? I can only suppose that these other genres sell in enough quantities to make the economics, as described by David, worthwhile, (I'd better point out that I'm writing from a British perspective, but I can't say that we are any more forward-looking in translating sf. There are small presses who occasionally cop a subsidy to translate from other languages, but if they ever translate sf it rarely comes my way.

AndyL askes :Does anyone know anything about the state of SF writing in Africa? Someone (It may have been the South African-born writer Nick Wood) forwarded an interesting article to be which can be found on http://news.book.co.za/blog/2008/08/15/whither-african-science-fiction/

In looking at this again, I've also stumbled on

http://ghanageek.wordpress.com/

It was interesting to see the reference to Vandana Singh, one of the best recent sf writers in my opinion. Of course, it helps that many Indian writers share English as a language with us and you . . .
Andy Leighton
32. andyl
Thanks Andy.

I had seen reference to an article "Science Fiction in South Africa" in PMLA but I cannot read that.

The existence of a native English speaking (and writing) community in India and some African countries gives me hope that the cream of their books (SF or not) will be published in the UK (or the US) as there should not be major translation costs. Although I think that there needs to be a strong regional SF community (with their own magazines and specialist publishers) on the Indian subcontinent and in Africa if their fiction is to gain any visibility of note in the UK/US.
David G. Hartwell
33. nfonseca
A bit late to this discussion, I'm writing here just to make a reference to portuguese science fiction and a contribute with a couple of aditional notes.

Science fiction in Portugal is really a small phenomenon. Publishing has seen better days and is now currently in the process of moving to a 2nd wave of online publications, since printed works are not very welcomed by publishers in general. Something which is definetly not helpfull either to established or emergent national writers. Blogs and newsgroups have been keeping up the interes in the genre, so maybe they can be seen as the main effort in the field now.

One of the curious things happening now is a general raising interest on getting to english-speaking markets, so you may happen to hear of some of us in a near future.

Many american and english authors were published in Portugal between the 60's and the 90's (sadly with very few reprints), but now there's only the very occasional novel.

SF readers are in general unaware of existing portuguese SF writers, though there's a few of us around. Authors of note count João Barreiros (who appeared at the SFWA European Hall of Fame), Luis Filipe Silva, João Seixas, João Ventura, Jorge Candeias. It is, however, a small market, so some of the problems are inherent to that, but I think that it is now tending to become better.

As for translations, costs really matter, specially if you have a market as described. I'll give you an example: I have made a translation of a classic SF novella by a renowned SF Grandmaster, that has several of his books published in Portugal (though not for a long time now). When I began talking to some of the main players in the field I kept hearing that it would be impossible to publish it, mainly because it would cost to much to buy the printing rights. I still haven't given up on it, but as you see, it is very difficult to publish "big names". Main publishing houses, or at least those that still publish the occasional SF work, are tending to print only recent best-sellers or movie-related reprints; some of the responsible persons in those publishing houses or Fantastic-realted collections don't have a great knowledge of the genre, which is also a notable handycap.

As a final note, I do not know much of African SF, but I do know that there are some books and authors in Cape Verde which may fit in the category, though I'm not sure if the writers themselves see it as such. Most african writers I'm aware of (writing in portuguese) tend to the fantastic in general or to plain fantasy, with very few instances or use of SF tropes (Agualusa and Pepetela come to mind).
Cristina Lasaitis
34. cristinalasaitis
Now I'm thinking that it wouldn't be a bad idea (maybe a little utopic) to create an international database that could cover all the science fiction writen in the world. The authors could register their work, and peers might evaluate it.

There is an initiative like this for science fiction published in spanish - the Trantor database: http://www.ttrantor.org/
David G. Hartwell
35. Andy Sawyer
AndyL says
I had seen reference to an article "Science Fiction in South Africa" in PMLA but I cannot read that.

I've just downloaded it. If you want a copy, email me (asawyer@liv.ac.uk).
Blue Tyson
36. BlueTyson
Dave Freer's in South Africa, maybe he'd do a column on Africa if you asked him?
Pablo Defendini
37. pablodefendini
@ cristinalasaitis #34
Wow! Thanks so much for that link!
Larry N.
38. Larry
Cristina, I do believe that'll be added to my Favorites shortly. Thanks!
Sergio Gaut vel Hartman
39. sergiogvh
SF and Fantasy in Argentina:

http://axxon.com.ar/wiki/index.php?title=Portada
David G. Hartwell
40. Tanya Tynjälä
Hi
A little bit late, but you know better late than never.
Just to give you some links about Latin American sci-fi. Sergio has gived you some about Argentina, so here are somoe from other countries:
Peru:
http://www.velero25.net/
http://espanol.geocities.com/cifiper2002/index.htm
Chile:
http://www.puerto-de-escape.cl
http://www.tauzero.org/
Mexico:
http://www.ciencia-ficcion.com.mx/
Venezuela
http://ubikverso.avcff.org/
http://necronomicon.avcff.org/
http://forjadores.net/

There are more, but I think this a good example of what is going on in Latin America sci-fi
regards
Sergio Gaut vel Hartman
41. sergiogvh
I marked a link to the history of sf in Argentina. These are the links to the active sites.

Sinergia:
http://www.nuevasinergia.com.ar/

Axxón:
http://axxon.com.ar/

Cuasar (fanzine since 1982):
http://www.revistacuasar.com.ar/

NM:
http://www.revistanm.com.ar/
Cristina Lasaitis
42. cristinalasaitis
You're welcome, boys.

Good news: people from the Brazilian fandom are considering seriously the hypothesis of translating some of our best works to english and making them available for download.
In the near future, maybe.
David G. Hartwell
43. carmetg
Thanks for this very enlightening and informative debate!

I am a science fiction author from Barcelona. Recently, my novel "The sentimental mutation" won the most important prize for science fiction written in Catalan. Since the novel is selling unusually well, my publisher and I have been looking for possibilities to get it translated into English. A very hard endeavor, as we begin to realize!

We figured out that the singularity of this novel would attract attention from the English-speaking world. The singularity comes from the fact that I am a female researcher in intelligent robotics. Female researchers in engineering fields are a minority, but it seems that finding one authoring a science fiction book is definitely very rare. (The original viewpoint is apparent in the characters and the plot of the novel, as reviewers have acknowledged.)

Do you have any hints on what path we should follow? Any suggestion will be much welcome. Thanks!
Marc Scheff
44. marcscheff
Funny, I started writing a comment here about one of my favorite pieces of SF that has a distinctly Latin flavor, "Spaceman Blues." It reads like a rumba at a fever pitch, and feels like a ride. Then I realized that the author, Brian Slattery, is also the author of this post! Perhaps with more great work like that, people will start to look outside the US for fresh ideas.
David G. Hartwell
45. sergiogvh
It has been over three years since we talked here about Latin American speculative fiction. But during that time I have collected over 150 stories from writers of the region and translated into English. Can we revisit the issue? I can make half a dozen anthologies. Are there interested in publishing? Many scholars of great reputation in this field have offered to add critical jobs and appropriate introductions to these books.

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