Emmet’s reading Acacia by this year’s John W. Campbell Award winner David Anthony Durham. It is labeled book one of “War with the Mein.” This led me to pondering that common pitfall of making up fantasy names: hitting on something that already means something else, and is thus inadvertently funny. “Mein” to me means “noodles” as in “chow mein” and “lo mein.” I don’t know if it’s authentic Chinese or Western restaurant Chinese. Because I’m aware it means noodles, I find it hard to take it entirely seriously as the name of an evil enemy. Next, bring on “the war with the linguini!” and “the war with the tortellini!” Fantasy names create atmosphere, and this is not the atmosphere you want unless you’re Robert Asprin.
While it’s easy to laugh at, it can be hard to avoid. Where are writers going to find a four letter word that doesn’t mean something in some language? If you’re going for pronounceable, probably there isn’t anything. (And nobody wants them called Gfnp, because for one thing the readers might want to talk about them, and for another what if the book’s really successful and they do an audio version?) The best that’s possible is to avoid things that have immediate risibility to English speaking readers. I mean I know “Acacia” is a plant but hearing it as the name doesn’t make me giggle. I asked Emmet if there were any other funny names in the book, and he told me that the founder of the royal line is called Edifus.
Durham’s names are far from the worst example of this I can think of, though they are the most recent. Terry Brooks has a wizard called Allanon. Al-Anon is the name of the organization that Alcoholics Anonymous has set up for the friends and families of alcoholics. If you google “allanon” you get a whole lot of hits for Al-Anon. But how was Brooks to know? The Sword of Shannara was written before Google, and while it was twenty years after Al-Anon was founded, if Mr. Brooks didn’t know anyone with an alcoholic problem he might well never have heard of it. I think this is forgivable. Still, while the books have been wildly successful, there have also been a lot of sniggers.
And then there’s Aileron, the young king of Fionavar in Guy Gavriel Kay’s Fionavar Tapestry. His father’s called Aillel, which is an actual Irish name, and Aileron sounds as if it easily could be an Irish name in the same tradition—but in fact it’s a part of an airplane. This didn’t need Google, a dictionary check would have caught it. The Fionavar books are excellent, beautifully written, a serious high fantasy series that does a whole lot of things right. I’ve always loved them—but I’ve always winced at Aileron. It could have been fixed so easily by naming him Aileran, if Kay or anyone at any stage at the publisher had been aware or wanted to fix it. Kay says the name’s pronounced Ah-LEER-on, and he never thought anyone would have a problem with it.
Even Tolkien, whose names are generally wonderful, had the occasional slip up. The elven city of Gondolin stands on a hill called Tuna. (What?) And I think I’ve mentioned that I’ve never read Jack Vance because the title Servants of the Wankh was a standing joke among British fans.
I have done this myself, incidentally. I wrote a story that needed a standard fantasy kingdom name, and I called it Porphyria. I liked the way it meant purple, I thought it had an imperial feel. I liked the way it sounded slightly pompous and standard—it was just what I wanted. Fortunately, before the story was published one of my first readers pointed out that it was the name of a disease. It was too late to find something else that felt right, but I quickly changed it to Porphylia. Thank you again, Nancy Lebovitz, for saving me from looking like an idiot.
So, what’s the solution? Writers should google the names for characters and places before they get too attached to them. Yes, this means googling lots of names, in the cases of some books lots and lots, but it’s worth it—it’s better to spend a whole afternoon discovering whether your characters’ names are noodles, self-help groups and airplane parts than to have people giggling at them forever once it’s too late to change.
Jo Walton is a science fiction and fantasy writer. She’s published eight novels, most recently Half a Crown and Lifelode, and two poetry collections. She reads a lot, and blogs about it here regularly. She comes from Wales but lives in Montreal where the food and books are more varied.
VIEW ALL BY · Thursday November 19, 2009 05:44pm EST
VIEW ALL BY · Thursday November 19, 2009 06:19pm EST
piaw @ #1
Jo was right to be uncertain of the word's origin. Lo mein and chow mein are indeed examples of "restaurant Chinese." Mian is a correct transliteration from Mandarin. Going by wikipedia (dangerous I know, but it's just a blog comment), chow mein comes from Taishanese and lo mein comes from Cantonese, with neither one being a particularly faithful transliteration. It is however the way that it is spelled on menus, packaging, and the like in the US (&UK?), at least for the most part.
VIEW ALL BY · Thursday November 19, 2009 06:24pm EST
VIEW ALL BY · Thursday November 19, 2009 07:23pm EST
VIEW ALL BY · Thursday November 19, 2009 07:28pm EST
Just a single example: Angua, from Sir Terry Pratchett's Discworld novels - remember what kind of character she is? Her special... traits? If not (or if you haven't encountered her yet), can you guess? :]
Thursday November 19, 2009 07:57pm EST
Thursday November 19, 2009 08:43pm EST
This is actually a trick stage directors use when they're setting up a classic play, to put the actors in the proper mood. One thing is to have actors read a line from the play that comments on (say) Mrs. Bauvoisier trashy behaviour. Another is to ask them to change (mentally) that name to someone everybody knows nowadays and that they can relate to emotionally, like a celebrity (think B Spears instead of poor old Mrs. Bauvoisier). The actors laugh more genuinely and then they can use that energy in the actual play.
Fantasy author's spend too much of their time making words up and not caring enough about using the ones that do exist for greater effect. No wonder mainstream authors keep getting institutional approval. They know where the heart of fiction lays...
VIEW ALL BY · Thursday November 19, 2009 08:54pm EST
VIEW ALL BY · Thursday November 19, 2009 09:11pm EST
Jofrh: It might be worrying too much. Some readers clearly don't care. Others can't stay in the mood of the novel if they're giggling every time the wizard Allanon says anything.
TekaLynn: The European sushi mountain!
Thursday November 19, 2009 09:24pm EST
VIEW ALL BY · Thursday November 19, 2009 09:48pm EST
And companies have this problem naming products. There was the famous Toyota Cressida--how did Toyota think it would be a good idea to name a car after a faithless lover? And I remember a teacher telling me that although "Nova" seems like a good name for a car (Latin for "new"), the joke among Spanish speakers was that it wouldn't run (no va)
But, as Jo points out, any pronouncable name is likely to have *some* dubious connotation in *some* language. You can avoid real howlers, but other than that, it may be somewhat a matter of luck.
VIEW ALL BY · Thursday November 19, 2009 10:10pm EST · amended on Thursday November 19, 2009 10:10pm EST
Friday November 20, 2009 12:16am EST
That's not something that you need a degree in linguistics to know, either - people have a general idea what Chinese, Korean, Japanese, etc. sound like. Those words are clearly Indo-European, and probably Germanic. I found them so jarring that they totally broke my suspension of disbelief.
I guess what I'm saying is this: if you're going to create fantasy names, get an idea of what your fantasy people's language is going to sound like first. If you're trying to evoke a parallel with a real-world culture, get acquainted with that language, too. Know where English has its biases and avoid them, unless you're trying to make Englishy-sounding names (this will help if you want to sell your story overseas, too).
Five minutes on Wikipedia is really all you need to get started. Look up "phonology", and away you go!
VIEW ALL BY · Friday November 20, 2009 02:55am EST
VIEW ALL BY · Friday November 20, 2009 02:56am EST
VIEW ALL BY · Friday November 20, 2009 04:14am EST
On the other hand, web searches are a great way to develop a truly unique name. If you're writing a fantasy novel called My Great Fantasy Novel, it doesn't hurt to own the domain mygreatfantasynovel.com. But not all domains are available. Trying out names in web searches can help you pin down something that nobody's ever used before. Ever. Tweak the spelling, try doubling letters. Eventually you'll get something unique. I'm talking brand-building now, but in a multimedia world it's an issue no author can afford to ignore.
Having said all that, you can get too screwed up about the whole thing, to the point where it stifles your creativity. Most words in your language will have wacky connotations in another, so don't sweat it.
Friday November 20, 2009 05:22am EST
Coincidentally, I just happened to read yesterday (or the day before) about a company in Britain that is charging expecting parents £ 1000 for looking up baby names in a variety of languages to avoid the Orla problem mentioned by MaryArrr @12.
Friday November 20, 2009 06:32am EST
Friday November 20, 2009 06:45am EST
Gene Wolfe in his Long Sun books uses all sorts of names - Severian, Baldanders, Dorcas - which sound alien but also plausible and even familiar. I understand most of the names in the book are the names of medieval saints that have fallen into disuse.
VIEW ALL BY · Friday November 20, 2009 06:45am EST
This is why I hate JK Rowling, haha. Now I can't name a serious character Vernon, no matter how well the darned word fits with the language.
Considering that the language in question is also the one where names of some amino acids wouldn't sound out of place at all, I'm in some trouble indeed.
Friday November 20, 2009 09:07am EST
VIEW ALL BY · Friday November 20, 2009 09:51am EST
But, for Gene Wolfe names, the best has to be that of "The Fifth Head of Cerebus"'s narrator. :-)
VIEW ALL BY · Friday November 20, 2009 10:23am EST
Beard'st thou me here, thou bold Barbiturate?
Sirrah, thy grandam's dead - old Nembutal.
The spangled stars shall weep for Nembutal . . .
Is it not passing brave to be a king,
Aureomycin and Formaldehyde,
Is it not passing brave to be a king
And ride in triumph through Amphetamine?
Friday November 20, 2009 10:36am EST
VIEW ALL BY · Friday November 20, 2009 10:42am EST
VIEW ALL BY · Friday November 20, 2009 10:47am EST
Acacia's a tree in _Acacia_ too. And I also got Germanic off of "Mein," but that's not to say you're wrong.
Friday November 20, 2009 11:51am EST
Friday November 20, 2009 11:54am EST
Legolas wasn't a triumph of nomenclature either, come to think of it...
VIEW ALL BY · Friday November 20, 2009 12:12pm EST
Harharhar harlarious.
Seriously, there is no fucking way to avoid those sort of things, and having to "check in the dictionary" every proper name you come up with in a sff book?! I do not feel like it is the reasonable demand that you try to make it sound like.
I do admit that "Tùna" made me chortle, but finding fault with things like "Mein" etc. is just asking for it.
Friday November 20, 2009 12:15pm EST
One of my two sisters is named Dorcas. I'm really not sure quite why my parents chose it as a name, though perhaps an association with the gracefulness of the Dorcas Gazelle was in mind. The fact that the year before, Heinlein gave the name to a minor character in Stranger in a Strange Land is almost certainly completely coincidental.
VIEW ALL BY · Friday November 20, 2009 12:22pm EST
I haven't read Novik, but wouldn't be surprised if her other dragons had similar names.
VIEW ALL BY · Friday November 20, 2009 01:48pm EST
VIEW ALL BY · Friday November 20, 2009 02:14pm EST
"Proper" in this case meaning "according to pinyin, a transliteration of Mandarin Chinese invented in the 1950s, long after the word 'mein' entered the English language from a different dialect." It's a perfectly acceptable English word, just like "ramen" (from "lamian") is a perfectly acceptable Japanese word for the same food.
Asakiyume @ 11: "And I remember a teacher telling me that although "Nova" seems like a good name for a car (Latin for "new"), the joke among Spanish speakers was that it wouldn't run (no va)"
I've heard that that's an urban legend, and that the Nova sold quite decently in Mexico. (The emphasis is on the NO in "nova," and on the VA in "no va." IANA native Spanish speaker though, or even a Spanish speaker at all.) On the other hand, Nike did briefly sell a women's sports shoe called the Succubus.
Other unfortunate phonetic coincidences: "porn" means "beautiful" in Thai, and pops up in a lot of girl's names; "Isabel" sounds an awful lot like the Hebrew phrase "mound of garbage."
I think there's a lot to be said for starting with a word that already exists and playing with it a bit--that way, you know what the connotations are, instead of being caught out. Gene Wolfe's resurrecting old words is one example of this, and GRRM's slight tweaks of existing names (Catelyn, Eddard, etc.) is another.
VIEW ALL BY · Friday November 20, 2009 02:34pm EST
Orson Scott Card's A Planet Called Treason is SF rather than fantasy, but one still has to wonder what he was thinking when he named the capital city of his planet Humping. (The book got rewritten and republished later; I don't know if he changed the name.)
VIEW ALL BY · Friday November 20, 2009 02:38pm EST
Kabada: You don't have a problem with Mein. Good for you. But I'm not saying I do just to be annoying.
VIEW ALL BY · Friday November 20, 2009 03:39pm EST
bluejay: there is not so much trouble with Temeraire in spanish (a language with a lot in common with french) since we have the word "temerario" and it comes to mind first, and if you know also that the story is about french dragons (so to speak) it is easier to imagine that the name is not intended to be read with a spanish pronunciation.
regarding Tolkien, one of Aragorn's names, Thorongil, sounds "toronjil" (lemon balm, according to my dictionary), and Olorin, one of Gandalf's names, sounds like some air freshener or deodorant ("olor" being smell in spanish). there are others I can't remember right now, but I think there may be even more than in english.
VIEW ALL BY · Friday November 20, 2009 04:06pm EST
And when I read Shanarra, as a kid, long before Google, I was taken aback by Allanon's name. The group Al-Anon used to place ads in the cheap slots on daytime TV, where I'd see them if I was home sick from school. I guess Brooks didn't watch enough TV.
Anne McCaffrey has admitted taking the name "Killeshandra" from a brand of butter, but she knew what she was doing when she did it. (Wikipedia tells me it's also the name of the old Irish market town where that brand of butter comes from.)
VIEW ALL BY · Friday November 20, 2009 05:25pm EST
Friday November 20, 2009 05:42pm EST
VIEW ALL BY · Friday November 20, 2009 09:27pm EST
So far for naming places in my NaNo (aside from one or two I completely made up) I've actually used Wiki to look up ancient names for places and just go with that, no problems yet!
I'm going to write about a war between the ancient kingdoms of NaNo and Wiki.
Saturday November 21, 2009 01:05am EST
Nobody's mentioned the Mike Ford character named "Rogaine". The book antedated the drug, but knowing that doesn't help.
I've also never been convinced that "Aileron" wasn't a deliberate joke whose subtlety Kay horribly misjudged.
(* ...by the squirrel in my pocket. Damn mind-control squirrels.)
VIEW ALL BY · Saturday November 21, 2009 06:19am EST
Then there is the heroic character "Kris Longknife" - "kris" is a type dagger in South East Asia. So is that a wordplay?
Saturday November 21, 2009 08:36pm EST
VIEW ALL BY · Sunday November 22, 2009 07:40pm EST
The section was Swift's satire on Buckingham Palace and on scientists, both of whom he cordially despised. It was such an extreme satire that the editor even censored part of it before publication—and was so strident that even when Isaac Asimov annotated the book, hundreds of years later, he was compelled to stop in the middle of his annotations and write a paragraph in defense of scientists.
The name of the island? "Laputa". The book jokes about it being derived from the ancient form of that island's native language, but in actuality "la puta" is one of the most obscene, wash-your-mouth-out-with-soap epithets in the Spanish language—and you just bet Swift used it intentionally.
Of course, since it was an obscure Spanish language joke in an English-language book, it went right over Japanese director Hayao Miyazaki's head when he made an animé movie inspired by that part of Gulliver. Subsequently, the movie Laputa: Castle in the Sky quietly had the first word in the title dropped when Disney released it outside of Japan.
VIEW ALL BY · Sunday November 22, 2009 08:47pm EST
I've been cleaning out spam profiles from a website I moderate. If anybody wants a set of weird words that look kind of cool, let me know and I'll copy them for you.
VIEW ALL BY · Monday November 23, 2009 02:22am EST
heresiarch @34 has it about right. A goodly portion of Chinese migrants came from southern China, leadng to Cantonese as the dominant dialect in Chinese restaurants all round the world. I would transcribe the Cantonese pronunciation of noodles as "meen" - not far at all from "mein".
Less common were the Fujian/Hokkien speakers & they call noodles "mee", hence Hokkien mee which inspired (thanks to culinary fusion) the Malay (Indonesian/Malaysian/Singaporean) version of Mi goreng or 'fried noodles'.
VIEW ALL BY · Monday November 23, 2009 03:48pm EST
Ah, i was young.
Monday November 23, 2009 07:57pm EST
Actually, no. Most Westerners who are naming a dragon in that universe think about it for weeks while the egg is hardening and come up with something overdramatic and usually Latin. Temeraire is named (for the ship) on the spur of the moment. This is discussed in the first book.
The Chinese in the same universe, on the other hand, consider it an insult when they find out that a dragon of an honored lineage was named by a human, and persist in using the Chinese name that dragon would have had - presumably one chosen by the other dragons of its family, although this is not discussed explicitly.
The Tswana in that universe believe that their dragons are the reincarnations of their honored dead, and convince the dragons of this by telling them (both in the shell and as hatchlings) stories of their former lives, so their dragons are known by the names of the people reincarnated into them. And get really upset when people kidnap their family members.
And as far as I know, Novik *did* do the research, so there are no Ailerons among either species.
VIEW ALL BY · Monday November 23, 2009 10:17pm EST
FWIW, my booklog says, " DNF -- well-written but not going anywhere I much want to go," and references Nick Gever's review at http://www.locusmag.com/Features/2007/06/locus-magazine-reviews-david-anthony.html
-- who liked it much more than I did.
Happy reading--
Pete Tillman
VIEW ALL BY · Monday November 23, 2009 10:39pm EST
VIEW ALL BY · Monday November 23, 2009 10:52pm EST
Avram: I think I did wonder about the Galts for a moment, especially as they were first introduced as merchants.
Tuesday November 24, 2009 09:25pm EST
That said, I recently re-read his Showboat World and just about died when one of his characters was armed with snapples.
Friday November 27, 2009 12:33am EST
Friday November 27, 2009 09:30pm EST
Not the same (a poem in the meter of the "Kalevala" and the "Song of Hiawatha", not a sonnet), but similar: "The Legend of the Admen" by Everett W. Lord, 1927. I first read it in The Best-Loved Poems of the American People. Someone has posted the text on their LiveJournal.
Tuesday December 01, 2009 03:11pm EST
Istria: a peninsula in the Adriatic which belonged to Venice for several hundred years and is now the most multi-ethnic and politically tolerant part of Croatia. (Hello, repressive Arab-analogue desert empire of veiled women in Jude Fisher's Fool's Gold series. This is the Balkan equivalent of calling your desert empire San Francisco.)
Styria: a region in the Austrian and Slovenian Alps. (Hello, Italian Renaissance-style land of city states and poisoned everything in Joe Abercrombie's Best Served Cold; suffice it to say that, for Austrians and Slovenians, the Alps and the Adriatic are Two Very Different Things.)
Probably saving the worst till last, Vesna: a South Slav girl's name. (Hello, womanising Jack-Sparrow-esque count in the Tom Lloyd books who just ends up leaving me wondering when he's going to do the big Monstrous Regiment reveal... - although if Lloyd's editor didn't call him out on lifting the Wheel of Time 'I hear a dead king's voices' schtick, can't really expect him to have caught this one...)