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posted Friday August 01, 2008 04:12pm EDT

Talkin' 'Bout My Generation Gap

John Klima

Elizabeth Bear had an interesting post recently (heck, she ALWAYS has interesting posts, but this one was relevant to what I talk about here) wherein she posits that each generation of SF short fiction writers only reads within its own generational short fiction boundary.  Or in more succinct, Bear fashion: "We don't read them. And they don't read us."

I'm sure there are exceptions. I'm sure there are writers of short fiction who belong to one generation that read fiction written by people of another generation, but I think in essence bear has hit upon something here. Again, in her succinct fashion, "I wonder when the last time was that Bob Silverberg read a story by Benjamin Rosenbaum, David Moles, or Yoon Ha Lee?"

I agree with her sentiment because I've had the experience of when I see/hear Gen X writers talk about other writers, they tend to refer to people from within their generation, and vice versa for the older generations. Now, I think a lot of this comes from the fact that writers talk about their peers. And not that Elizabeth Bear and Robert Silverberg aren't peers in the sense that they are both talented science fiction and fantasy authors. But it's more that they aren't peers in the sense of when their careers started and where they are in their career. Silverberg's published something like 5,000 books* and Bear has published slightly fewer**.

I think when you're on the outside, i.e., not a writing professional, you read what you read. You read everything. You read read read. But once you cross that line into becoming a professional, you start to make friends and relationships and connections with other professional. It's no different than how you make friends and connections anywhere. You gravitate towards people similar to you. A new writer isn't necessarily going to approach Silverberg and become best friends. But a new writer will approach another new writer. And as careers burgeon, and you read what your friend is writing, you want to talk about it to other people so that the public supports your friend, your friend can keep writing, and you can continue to see them at conventions, etc.

Obviously new writers garner their interest in writing by reading already established authors. Somewhere along the line this slows down and in some cases stops. We all get busier as we get older, and as you're filling up your days with writing (or your spare time outside your day job writing) and you have less time for reading. You become choosier with what you read, and the choice you make will often be generational peers for the reason laid out above. This is no less true for older generations.

Now why does it matter if writers aren't reading each other across generations?

Younger generations are missing out on seeing how established writers continue to hone their craft. If we take Silverberg as an example, what makes his writing fresh to keep selling new material? What keeps him writing? If you're very lucky as a writer, you will have a career as long as Robert Silverberg's. In my opinion, part of learning how he's accomplished this feat (other than talent) is to read what he writes and to learn from what he's done and is still doing. In some respects, a younger writer reading older writers is akin to an apprenticeship.

As for the older generations, there's something to be said for seeing where the future of a career is going. Are there things getting published today that could inspire an established writer to try something new? Look at the impact that Moorcock's tenure with New Worlds or Ellison's Dangerous Visions anthologies had.

It's a dangerous thing to limit who you read when you're a writing professional. Unless you know what's being done, there's no way you can do something that ISN'T being done. This is called environmental scanning, which is vital to being successful in your field. You see what everyone else in your profession is already doing. You can learn whether what you're doing is similar to others in the field that are already successful. You can also learn what people like from what's being done. But, more importantly, if you do your scan correctly, you can see what's lacking from your environment. And if you can define what's lacking, you can fill it.

But you can only do that by being thorough. So this is my assignment to all the writers out there: find a writer from a different generation than your own and read a short story from them. Report back in one week, tell me what you've learned. I'll make it easier for eveyone, in my Weekend Getaway later today, I'll give you a link to a story from each generation.


* Silverberg has published almost 300 novels and almost 600 pieces of short fiction. While not 5,000, it's still impressive.

** Bear has published about 15 novels (with more in the works) and almost 50 pieces of short fiction and poetry. Please note, my counts were done very quickly, so the actual numbers may be a little off. Not 5,000 books either, but heck, not bad for a handful of years, eh?

[photo from Flickr user Joi, CC licensed for commercial use]
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tags: short fiction, reading

24 comments
Patrick Nielsen Hayden
1.  pnh
VIEW ALL BY · Friday August 01, 2008 04:15pm EDT
I saw that bit of Bear's on her LJ, and I wondered, because I've sometimes known the older writers of this field to keep up better than I do. I also remember the first day of the San Jose Worldcon, back in 2002, when I watched Bob Silverberg leap up from his seat in the middle of a lively bar conversation, in order to run up to a just-arrived Charles Stross to shake his hand and tell him just how thoroughly impressed he was with his work, which he'd recently encountered for the first time. Aside from the amusement factor of watching Charlie's head briefly swell to the size of a planet, it was also a reminder that the old guys do notice new talent, at least sometimes.
John Klima
2.  john_klima
VIEW ALL BY · Friday August 01, 2008 04:24pm EDT
Cool. I wondered if using Silverberg was a bad example, since I've always suspected that he works at keeping up with things.
Elizabeth Bear
3.  Elizabeth Bear
Friday August 01, 2008 05:12pm EDT
PNH @ #1:
Like all gross generalities, the one I made is riddled with exceptions. I've been reading a lot of Carol Emshwiler lately, for example.

But I do think there's a tendency, as one gets busier and one's time gets more constrained, to read things ones' pals are talking about.
Elio García
4.  Egarcia
VIEW ALL BY · Friday August 01, 2008 05:27pm EDT
Yes, Silverberg is a bad choice, since he still occasionally edits anthologies, for one thing. His Science Fiction: The Best of 2002 (co-edited with Karen Haber) published stories by Rosenbaum and Lee. I tend to suppose editors who get involved in these "best of" anthologies actually like and admire the SF being presently produced, so I'm guessing Silverberg did engage with those stories as a reader, a writer, and as an editor.

I don't really know that this thing about authors not reading across generations is generally true, looking beyond Silverberg, though I'm sure there are plenty of examples that support it.
Jo Walton
5.  bluejo
VIEW ALL BY · Friday August 01, 2008 07:23pm EDT
I write very little short fiction, and maybe this is true of short fiction writers, but it definitely isn't true for me. I mean I have friends, and I suppose I have a generation, but I have friends who are all ages and all generations.

The youngest short fiction writer I'm excited about is Lila Garrott, who's about 24, and whose short work has been published in _Not One of Us_ and _Cabinet des Fees_. She's a friend, and she's brilliant. The oldest still working is probably Silverberg -- William Tenn isn't still writing, really -- and of people whose short work will cause me to buy a magazine it's in there's also Eleanor Arnason, Robert Reed, Ted Chiang, Marissa Lingen... all ages, all over the map.
Irene Gallo
6.  Irene
VIEW ALL BY · Friday August 01, 2008 08:01pm EDT
Of course it's a generalization but, the same can happen with illustrators. Some students believe drawing began with James Jean. And while I _love_ Jean's work, I'm really impressed when a student mentions someone like Bernie Fuchs -- it shows their eye's are taking in a broader landscape.
Jeffrey Richard
7.  neutronjockey
VIEW ALL BY · Saturday August 02, 2008 12:06am EDT
I don't know how ANYONE keeps up. Every opportunity I have to sit with someone who's been in the SF/F industry for more than a hot minute I realize how very (very) little I know about the history of genre as a whole. (If Patrick's saying their are people that can keep up better than he can--- my cause is lost.)

So I guess I'll be the guy who continues to contribute little to conversations (but keeps an open ear).

As far as grabbing older works--- I just discovered a treasure trove of fantasy works from chapbooks dating in the late 16th-early 17th century... that's probably not what you were asking for was it John?
John Klima
8.  john_klima
VIEW ALL BY · Saturday August 02, 2008 01:58am EDT
@neutronjockey No that's EXACTLY what I was talking about. You can't limit yourself with your reading if you want to be writer. You need to be exposed to as many different writing styles as you can. And if that means finding 16th and 17th century material, then read it! :)
JS Bangs
9.  jaspax
VIEW ALL BY · Saturday August 02, 2008 10:56am EDT
I wonder if this is a function of venue more than actual choice. Most of the short fiction I read these days is in the online genre magazines, which tend to skew towards the young or less-established genre authors. The print mags and anthologies skew to the established genre authors. How much do you thing this segregation accounts for the divide, insofar as there really is one?
John Klima
10.  john_klima
VIEW ALL BY · Saturday August 02, 2008 11:45am EDT
@jaspax I think that segregation plays into the divide A LOT. It was not easy finding an example of online fiction from an older generation for my weekend getaway.

So, if the younger generation of writers is also reading a lot online, as opposed to print venues, they would by necessity read younger writers.
Lola Allison
11.  lolacolleen
VIEW ALL BY · Saturday August 02, 2008 12:03pm EDT
I can agree and understand what Elizabeth is saying about reading what your pals are reading but I think that's exactly why I am yet again outside the loop. Growing up I hid my complete nerdiness about Fantasy from people so I read whatever was in our town library. And now I frequent this random used book store. Recently I picked up some issues of Fantasy and Science Fiction Magazine from the 80's that had stories from the greats like Marion Zimmer Bradley, Stephen R. Donaldson, James Patrick Kelly, Jane Yolen, etc. I'm definitely enjoying those.
However it sucks that I've been going to these conventions lately and don't know any of the more popular and recent writers. *shrug* I've always been a conundrum.
Debbie Moorhouse
12.  GUDsqrl
VIEW ALL BY · Saturday August 02, 2008 04:04pm EDT
eh, I read whatever I can get my hands on. Older books tend to be cheaper, so....
M R
13.  Techslave
VIEW ALL BY · Saturday August 02, 2008 07:45pm EDT
Hmm.

My first exposures were when I tore into my parent's science fiction and fantasy collections, which had been banished to the shed during my early childhood at some point.
But often, it is difficult for me to find books by older authors which are either new, or interesting, to me. My main issue is getting more exposure to writers of my generation - especially those who have little bookstore presence, or who are not in the genre sections that I enjoy.
Possibly the opposite effect: Many authors, especially those not enormously popular at the time of publication, are not reprinted or their rights are held by those with no interest in reprinting. Add to that low quality paperbacks and their rate of decay, and you have quite a thorny path to find older books in s/f and fantasy.
Debbie Moorhouse
14.  GUDsqrl
VIEW ALL BY · Sunday August 03, 2008 03:53am EDT
Hmm, yeah, the older books do tend to fall apart even while being read. I have a fair few SF anthos upstairs in need of sticking back together.

It's an unfortunate vacuum for any fiction to fall into--too young to be out of copyright, yet old enough for authors to be hard to trace, or even dead. The effort and expense involved in reprinting would probably far outweigh any hope of a return.

Where's that sticky tape?
Blue Tyson
15.  BlueTyson
VIEW ALL BY · Sunday August 03, 2008 09:37am EDT
10.

John, not sure your google-fu is too good?

What do you want, Asimov, Clarke, Heinlein? Silverberg, Pohl, Anderson, Harrison (for recent grandmasterness)

Later? Benford, Haldeman? Earlier? Smith, Breuer, etc.?


Free SF Online

Free SF Reader

This should keep you going for a long time.

:)
Elizabeth Bear
16.  Terry Finley
Sunday August 03, 2008 11:19pm EDT
My problem is that there
is so much good stuff to read.

http://fictionfascination.blogspot.com/
David Moles
17.  chronodm
VIEW ALL BY · Monday August 04, 2008 06:58am EDT
I don't take the point to be about reading old books. I'm sure all of us not-quite-young whippersnappers have read plenty. The question is whether we're keeping up with the current work of still-working writers. I think it's a fair accusation to say many of us aren't. The "oldest" writers whose new stuff I read regularly mostly got started in the 80s -- which is to say they were "new" writers when I started reading them, and I suppose some part of my reading hindbrain still thinks of them as contemporary.

Some of that's what Bear said -- you read the people your friends are talking about. Some of it's impatience with another generation's view of the future, or of the present. Some of it's irrational prejudice against sharp writers who are just as far ahead of the curve as they've ever been.

That said, there are a lot of 21st-century writers in the Year's Best tables of contents whose stuff I haven't read either.
John Klima
18.  john_klima
VIEW ALL BY · Monday August 04, 2008 12:47pm EDT · amended on Monday August 04, 2008 05:10pm EDT
@BlueTyson oh you did not just question a librarian's searching skills? LOL I should be more clear. I wanted an example of recent fiction that was available online, i.e., something from this century.

Now, I was looking for Silverberg initially, and I was going to do Bear and Silverberg, however, none of the available Silverberg fiction online was from this century.

And yes, I knew that would be limiting since some of the writers you mention were not alive in this century. And also limiting since many of the older generation of writers are not publishing at online magazines.

This was partly done to give a recent example of fiction, i.e., what is the person doing now. That was part of what I wanted to get across in this post; while it's important to know what/how Robert Silverberg wrote in the 1950s and 1960s, it's possible more important--from the standpoint of a writer, which is what I'm talking about, not a reader--to know what he's doing now.

How is Silverberg et al remaining relevant today? How do these people who have been writing for four or more decades keep themselves and the reader interested in their words?

Some of that is writing talent, but there's something to be learned, I think, from seeing how an essentially canonical figure (you can insert Grandmaster here, if you like) keeps their writing skills up to date.
Kelly McCullough
19.  KellyMcCullough
VIEW ALL BY · Monday August 04, 2008 02:36pm EDT
Interesting, I find that rather than trying to keep up with what's happening in-field across generations I'm much more interested in reading lots of non-fiction and fiction from outside the genre. To me at least, it feels like that's a better way to keep what I'm writing fresh and relevant.
Debbie Moorhouse
20.  GUDsqrl
VIEW ALL BY · Monday August 04, 2008 07:49pm EDT
For a good mixture of contemporary work from new and established writers I used to visit SCIFICTION. Sigh.
Lola Allison
21.  lolacolleen
VIEW ALL BY · Monday August 04, 2008 08:58pm EDT
I highly agree with how important reading outside the genre is. I really want to tackle Nick Hornby and Salman Rushdie's new novels. I've also had my eye on David Sedaris' collection Dress Your Family in Corduroy and Denim. And lately I've done some reading in history that has given me tons of ideas for a new stories to write.
I think reading outside the genre helps my writing tremendously and reading non-fiction keeps me thinking up new unique ideas.
But then again maybe I'm only saying something other writers already know.
C.D. Thomas
22.  cdthomas
VIEW ALL BY · Monday August 11, 2008 11:59am EDT
I agree with GUDsqrl; I read what's on the $2.00 paperback and 1/2 price advance review copy tables, so that means I'll be a decade or so behind. I'll have to start supplementing my reading with mags, to keep up.

Also, it was comforting to know the authors featured at Worldcon were many of the ones featured at the last Denvention, even if that freaks the younglings out. Their continued output gives me a reference point to reenter fandom, and a seat, like starting from Shakespeare or Shaw, to see where the art form is going. The only limitation is my time and attention, so if I don't catch up to new authors and their works, that's my fault.
Liam Kruger
23.  Malebolge
VIEW ALL BY · Monday August 11, 2008 12:18pm EDT
I think some of the generational gap could be a matter of being star-struck. If a hip new scifi writer comes onto the scene, it's sort of hard to see the writers that influenced them as colleagues, even if they're in the same league. As such, there's greater comfort in one's own generation- there's respect, certainly, even admiration, but none of that 'i was twelve when i first read your books, please adopt me I can kill my parents just say the word'-sense. I don't know how big a role that plays, but it was the first thing I thought of.
Nathalie Gray
24.  Nat
VIEW ALL BY · Wednesday August 13, 2008 11:02am EDT
I agree with Kelly about reading outside one's genre. I'm always afraid that if I read too much of the genre into which I write, I'll start to sound like everybody else. Or worse, that I'll unknowingly plagiarise and end up with a scarlet letter pinned to my forehead. Ow.
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