I asked a friend if she’d seen the post I made asking for fantasy recommendations, and she said she’d seen it, but not read all the comments because there were rather a lot of them. I was sorting the suggestions at the time, and I thought maybe there were other people who might like it as a list.
This list is split into three parts: books I’ve read already, my new library list, and things for which I’d be a very hard sell. The last section has some comments as to why. I’m including it because I do know that not everybody shares my prejudices.
If your suggestions are on my “already read” list, don’t be sad, that just means you correctly identified things I like. Also, it means I rate any other things you suggested more highly, as we clearly have congruent tastes. Though those people who suggested things I’ve already reviewed here did make me blink a little. Oh, and just because I’ve read it doesn’t mean I necessarily recommend it. I read a lot.
The interesting thing about the “library list” is how often my reaction was “Really? But it looks so generic!” This is proof that this works. It’s all very well that people recommended things that were already on my radar, like Megan Whalen Turner and K.J. Parker. It’s much more significant that they found authors I’d never heard of and books I’d picked up and put down again.
Suggestions that I’ve already read
Clive Barker, Imajica
K. J. Bishop, The Etched City
Chaz Brenchley, Bridge of Dreams
Steven Brust & Emma Bull, Freedom and Necessity
Steven Brust, Vlad Taltos series
Emma Bull, War For The Oaks, Territory
Lois McMaster Bujold, The Curse of Chalion, Paladin of Souls, The Sharing Knife
Italo Calvino, Invisible Cities
C.J. Cherryh, The Paladin
Susannah Clarke, Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell
Storm Constantine, Wraeththu series
Susan Cooper, The Dark is Rising series
Kate Elliott, Crown of Stars
C. S. Friedman, Coldfire trilogy
Mary Gentle, Grunts
Barbara Hambly, The Silent Tower
Robin Hobb, Assassin series
Nina Kiriki Hoffman, The Thread that Binds the Bones
Robert Holdstock, Mythago Wood
Barry Hughart, Bridge of Birds
Diana Wynne Jones, Tough Guide to Fantasyland
Katherine Kerr, Deverry
Rosemary Kirstein—but they’re SF. Look for a post on these soon.
Jane Lindskold, Brother to Dragons, Companion to Owls
Elizabeth A. Lynn, WatchTower, Northern Girl, Dancers of Arun
Patricia McKillip, The Forgotten Beasts of Eld, Riddlemaster of Hed
Garth Nix, Sabriel
Phillip Pullman, His Dark Materials
Johanna Sinisalo, Not Before Sundown
Sherwood Smith, Inda, The Fox, The King’s Shield.
Charles Stross, Merchant Princes
Michael Swanwick, The Iron Dragon’s Daughter
Judith Tarr, A Wind in Kairo
Sherri S. Tepper, A Plague of Angels
J.R.R. Tolkien, Children of Hurin
Michelle West, Hunter series
Walter Jon Williams, Metropolitan
Patricia C. Wrede, Mairelon The Magician
Jane Yolen & Adam Stemple, Pay the Piper
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Library List
Joe Abercrombie, First Law
Daniel Abraham, Long Price Quartet
Kage Baker, Anvil of the World
R. Scott Bakker, Prince of Nothing trilogy, comprising: The Darkness That Comes Before, The Warrior-Prophet and The Thousandfold Thought
Elizabeth Bear, New Amsterdam, Blood and Iron, Ink and Steel, Hell and Earth
Carol Berg, Flesh and Spirit, Breath & Bone
Marie Brennan, Midnight Never Come
M.A. Brenner, Catastrophe’s Spell
Trudi Canavan, The Black Magician
Janet Lee Carey, Dragon’s Keep
Rick Cook, Wizardry series
Dan Crawford, Cat & Mouse
Kathleen Duey, Skin Hunger
Dave Duncan, The Great Game
Teresa Edgerton, Goblin Moon
Ru Emerson, The Princess of Flames
Steven Erikson, Malazan series
Nancy Farmer, Sea of Trolls
David Freer and Eric Flint, Pyramid Scheme
Shannon Hale, Princess Academy
Francis Hardinge, Fly by Night
Lian Hearn, Tales of the Otori
Jim C Hines, Goblin series
Robert Holdstock, Merlin Codex series
Simon Ings, City of the Iron Fish
Greg Keyes, Saga of The Kingdoms of Thorn and Bone
Jay Lake, Trial Of Flowers
Melissa Marr, Wicked Lovely, Ink Exchange
A. Lee Martinez, The Automatic Detective
J. M. McDermott, Last Dragon
Sean McMullen, Voyage of the Shadowmoon
China Mieville, Perdido Street Station, The Scar, Iron Council
John Moore, Heroics For Beginners
Jeffrey Overstreet, Auralia’s Colors
Paul Park, A Princess of Roumania
K.J. Parker, Engineer trilogy
Ricardo Pinto, Stone Dance of the Chameleon
Melanie Rawn, Ruins of Ambrai
John Ringo, There Will Be Dragons
Lane Robins, Maledicte
Sean Russell, Initiate Brother, Moontide and Magic
Charles. R. Saunders, Imaro
Brandon Sanderson, Mistborn trilogy, Elantris
Bruno Schulz, The Street of Crocodiles
Darrell Schweitzer, Mask of the Sorcerer
Ekaterina Sedia, Alchemy of Stone
Jan Siegal, Prospero’s Children
Vladimir Sorokin, Ice
Wen Spencer, Tinker
Steph Swainson, The Year of Our War
Laini Taylor, Faeries of Dreamdark: BLACKBRINGER
Catherynne M. Valente, The Orphan’s Tales
Michelle West, Sun Sword
Megan Whelan Turner, Attolia
Liz Williams, Detective Inspector Chen
Sean Williams, The Books Of the Cataclysm
Gene Wolfe, The Wizard Knight, There are Doors
Jonathan Wylie, Dream-Weaver
Sarah Zettel, Isavalta
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Very Reluctant to Try.
Emma Bull, E. Bear and others, Shadowunit—TV. I hate TV. This is a pretend TV program, and as such designed to appeal to people who watch TV and like it. Despite the fact Bull and Monette are involved and I’d normally be fascinated, this strikes me as something not at all aimed at me.
Jim Butcher, Dresden Files—Vampires. I hate vampires. I don’t hate them as much as TV, but that’s only because they’re not real.
Jacqueline Carey, Kushiel’s Dart—BDSM doesn’t repel me as much as TV or vampires, but it still isn’t my thing.
Mary Gentle, Ash: A Secret History, Ilario: The Lion’s Eye, 1610: A Sundial in a Grave—I hated Grunts. I hated it more than vampires and only slightly less than TV. It seemed to be a direct attack on Tolkien and everything I love about fantasy. Previous to this, I had enjoyed Gentle’s work a lot, so you’d think I could get over it, but every time I pick up one of her books I remember how much I hated Grunts and put it down again.
Nalo Hopkinson, Brown Girl in the Ring—despite having enjoyed other Hopkinson and having every reason to believe this is a good book, I’m reluctant to read something that earworms me with Boney M. I admit that this is a terribly shallow reason for not reading something.
Scott Lynch, The Lies of Locke Lamora—Pirates. Pirates are right up there with BDSM.
Martin Millar, Lonely Werewolf Girl—I strongly suspect it of having werewolves.
Kim Newman, Anno-Dracula—Definitely vampires.
Naomi Novik—Alternate history with dragons but the dragons didn’t change anything so you still have Napoleonic wars. Everybody else on the planet loves these to bits, but watch me gnaw off my own leg to escape.
Georges Perec, Life, a User’s Manual—This looks like being the kind of magic realism that irritates me profoundly.
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VIEW ALL BY · Friday September 05, 2008 04:27pm EDT
VIEW ALL BY · Friday September 05, 2008 04:31pm EDT
Friday September 05, 2008 04:32pm EDT
Friday September 05, 2008 04:36pm EDT
Well, there are some Vampire-Related stories in the Dresden books, but saying that they are about vampires would be like saying Star Trek is about Romulans. They are just one of the villain types in some of the stories.
Question: Do you hate vampires, or do you hate the "I'm-a-lonely-immortal-who-has-all-the-emotional-breadth-of-a-cup-of-coffee-but-is-so-much-better-than-humans-are. Can't-you-feel-my-pain-because-of-this-pesky-bloodlust?" people.
VIEW ALL BY · Friday September 05, 2008 04:40pm EDT
Whoever described these books to you did a terrible, terrible job. There are vampires in these books. They are not what the books are about. This would be like dismissing Friedman's "The Madness Season" for a similar reason.
That is a (somewhat) valid description of the first book. After that point, everything diverges wildly. Eventually it becomes clear that you still have the Napoleonic Wars because you still have Napoleon. Everything else absolutely must change because of the dragons.
Friday September 05, 2008 04:57pm EDT
And even if you don't like vampires, read Christopher Moore's Blood Sucking Fiends which is a real anomaly-a fall-down funny vampire novel.
VIEW ALL BY · Friday September 05, 2008 05:33pm EDT
Just a word of caution regarding Sorokin - Ice and its sequels are VERY bleak, and Sorokin's trademark, the consistently even and unemotional narrator's voice (way beyond deadpan) used to describe the most horrifying as well as the most ludicrous scenes, can be offputting to some. In his novels bad things can happen to good people, if this is what the events dictate. No handholding, no regard for the reader's feelings - the message gets across like a hammer blow.
Friday September 05, 2008 05:40pm EDT
It's also by far the easiest thing to try on your "reluctant to try" list, as the stories are of reasonable length and freely available online.
VIEW ALL BY · Friday September 05, 2008 05:43pm EDT
You don't know me from Eve, so no reason to believe me, but... I loathed Grunts (even more than you did, if that's possible) and I loved these, especially Ash.
VIEW ALL BY · Friday September 05, 2008 05:55pm EDT
As for the Mary Gentle, I can see we're going to have to create copies with the authors and titles blanked out somehow so you don't know what you're reading till you've started it :-)
VIEW ALL BY · Friday September 05, 2008 06:26pm EDT
Friday September 05, 2008 06:30pm EDT
Thanks for putting all the recommendations into a list, I dreaded doing this myself :)
Friday September 05, 2008 06:50pm EDT
Eventually it becomes clear that you still have the Napoleonic Wars because you still have Napoleon. Everything else absolutely must change because of the dragons.
This, I have to say, is exactly what bothered me about the world-building in the Temeraire books, because it's as if she was holding Europe still and letting Africa and China and the Americas change radically -- as if the changes in the other continents wouldn't affect Europe. That didn't sit right with me. (Mind you, the major reason why I gave up halfway through Black Powder War was because I wanted Laurence to die in a chemical fire and pass on the main-POV-character duties to somebody less dull.)
VIEW ALL BY · Friday September 05, 2008 07:38pm EDT
VIEW ALL BY · Friday September 05, 2008 07:53pm EDT
So, I take it you didn't like Buffy or Angel?
It seems a little odd, saying you hate TV. It's like saying you hate cinema, or books. What do you hate about TV? The commercials? Because there are DVDs, and things like iTunes now.
But, then, you know that already, I'm sure. Mostly, I'm curious. And also, I think everyone should watch something from Joss Whedon, at some point.
If you enjoy Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell, you'll also like Clarke's collection of short stories, The Ladies of Grace Adieu. I don't know if you're looking for short stories, but that's a good collection. As is Mieville's Looking for Jake. And both of Kelly Link's collections, Stranger Things Happen and Magic for Beginners.
Friday September 05, 2008 08:01pm EDT
On your forget-about-it list, I think you're right to exclude Dresden, and I'm saying this as someone who completely loved the series and read through all of them in a mad rush. I also think you'd dislike his fantasy series, which isn't generic, but which uses Roman flavouring in a way that I think would irritate the heck out of you (though again, I loved it after the plodding first book).
But Scott Lynch, I dunno. Are there even pirates in the first one? I don't remember them. There are thieves, but no more objectionably so than in the early Taltos books.
VIEW ALL BY · Friday September 05, 2008 09:05pm EDT
Suggestion: given your likes and dislikes, when you do try China Mieville, start with The Scar, and only try Perdido Street Station if you found The Scar at least tolerable. Perdido Street Station seems to put many readers off his writing for life because its events are so horrid. The other also contains horrid events but also some triumphs, and gave me more of a sense of wonder that humans survive in the world in question.
Edgerton - add The Gnome's Engine to your list, right after Goblin Moon. It's a continuation of the story, and shares her earlier book's charm.
On the strength of the previous discussion, I've already ordered Midnight Never Come, which I'd been kind of considering for a bit.
VIEW ALL BY · Friday September 05, 2008 10:02pm EDT
CliftonR @ 17, Though I understand where you're coming from with this, I'm thinking The Scar might be problematic as it contains both pirates and vampires. (Not the usual sort, admittedly.)
Oh, and hey guys - and this is addressed generally, not to a specific commenter - might I suggest that when someone clearly states that she really doesn't like ~X~, one might consider rethinking responding with, 'you should totally read ~example of X~ because I thought it was just terrific!' I think we can grant the OP the courtesy that she knows her own likes and dislikes, eh?
Friday September 05, 2008 10:19pm EDT
In regards to the list, I will simply say that I appreciate the K.J. Parker books. Good stuff, and definitely fantasy not of the stamped mode.
Friday September 05, 2008 10:31pm EDT
VIEW ALL BY · Friday September 05, 2008 10:33pm EDT
VIEW ALL BY · Friday September 05, 2008 11:17pm EDT
What is it about Vampire fans that makes them want people who don't like vampires to read about vampires anyway?
@12, I suspect Tor might not want to link to one particular online seller vs another, since Amazon and Barnes&Noble and Borders and no doubt many other places are all good customers. Plus the UK readers might not care for links to US Amazon and vice versa, and she's posting from Canada anyway. Perhaps the publishers linked to should add links to various places to buy in various countries.
Amazon supports user-created lists; some fan with way too much time on his or her hands could create a "Jo Walton's Library List from Tor.com" list with links, but I think in the time to do such a thing one could read another book!
VIEW ALL BY · Friday September 05, 2008 11:23pm EDT
And of course if you *do* choose to say anything, you'll just be bothered by people saying "Oh, this vampire novel doesn't have those particular problems", and I'm betting your experience has been bad with that or you wouldn't have adopted such a blanket rule in the first place. So there's probably no available win for you in saying anything more, I do see that.
VIEW ALL BY · Friday September 05, 2008 11:24pm EDT
VIEW ALL BY · Friday September 05, 2008 11:30pm EDT
I sincerely hope that you've got more and better reasons for not giving these authors a chance.
VIEW ALL BY · Friday September 05, 2008 11:36pm EDT
But let's face it, there are more good books out there than anyone can ever read. It's okay to miss a few good ones if it means you skip a lot of ones you don't like.
VIEW ALL BY · Friday September 05, 2008 11:52pm EDT · amended on Friday September 05, 2008 11:53pm EDT
I didn't mind the gruesome in Perdido Street; it seemed to me effectively used and appropriate to the plot. (YMMV - I don't squick easily.) I loved the worldbuilding. The characters were a little two-dimensional, I suppose, but in context it was fine. And the setup was all there for some genuinely interesting political fantasy. The sequels then completely let me down, mainly because of plot problems. (I still loved the worldbuilding.)
(The next two paragraphs have been rot13ed because of massive book-breaking spoilers. O site admins: could we possibly have [spoiler] tags similar to those found on jayisgames.com?)
Gur Fpne frrzrq yvxr vg jnf pneelvat guebhtu ba gung cebzvfr; vg frrzrq yvxr Zvrivyyr jnf cercnerq gb ghea gur jbeyq pbzcyrgryl hcfvqr qbja; gur ragver obbx jnf ohvyqvat hc gb gur neeviny ng gur gvghyne Fpne ... naq gura ng gur ynfg zvahgr Zvrivyyr unygrq gur jubyr guvat. Nagvpyvznk. Fgnghf dhb cerfreirq. Ragver abiry n jnfgr bs gvzr sbe gur cebgntbavfgf.
Naq gura ur qvq GUR RKNPG FNZR GUVAT va Veba Pbhapvy, bayl rira zber fb, cyhf ur fghpx frireny bs gur cebgntbavfgf jvgu gur Vqvbg Onyy; va cnegvphyne, V qba'g frr jul gur eroryf vafvqr gur pvgl qvqa'g rira gel gb erqrsvar gur pvgl-rngre'f gnetrg nf whfg gur guvatf nobhg Arj Pebohmba gung gurl jrer gelvat gb trg evq bs. Fvzcyr ovg bs zrgnculfvpny whqb. Znlor jbhyqa'g unir jbexrq, ohg fbzrbar fubhyq unir gubhtug bs vg.
So, alas, my recommendation is to read Perdido Street Station but not the sequels.
VIEW ALL BY · Friday September 05, 2008 11:57pm EDT
Well, the great thing about the Novik books is that really, they're a subtle critique of the whole "Just like the regular world but with X" sub-genre. Each book very deliberately spirals farther and farther from the "norm" of Napoleanic Europe. The first book takes place mostly in England, which is very normal--dragons are kept out of sight, peasant-folk are terrified of them, and the Airforce is considered weird and dodgy by everyone who is Anyone> However, the second book happens in China, where dragons can own land, buy things, and are legally just like (or perhaps several cuts above) people. Things continue to get weirder as different continents are explored, and different cultures that have incorporated dragons into their societies very differently.
VIEW ALL BY · Saturday September 06, 2008 12:00am EDT · amended on Saturday September 06, 2008 12:02am EDT
VIEW ALL BY · Saturday September 06, 2008 12:06am EDT
I will heartily concur with the Matt Ruff recommendation -- he's one of my favorites.
VIEW ALL BY · Saturday September 06, 2008 12:08am EDT
VIEW ALL BY · Saturday September 06, 2008 12:36am EDT
I read Shadow Unit as stories, though I do talk about them as "episodes" and "seasons". They don't read as scripts or as television.
VIEW ALL BY · Saturday September 06, 2008 12:38am EDT
If what you hate about TV is periodic, mostly self-contained episodes that nevertheless build up to larger arcs, and those arcs are also contained within larger story arcs, then yeah, you should avoid Shadowunit. It definitely replicates that structure. If it's just about anything else about TV that bugs you, then you might want to give it a try, because in almost every respect, it's very different.
(One of the things I do periodically when reading is imagine how it could be made into a movie or TV show. Shadowunit would never work--the internal life of the characters is too important.)
VIEW ALL BY · Saturday September 06, 2008 07:47am EDT
(it's also exactly what I'd expect to come out of the OWW, based on my own experiences there)
VIEW ALL BY · Saturday September 06, 2008 07:50am EDT
What I hate about TV would be a very long post, and I know from experience that it would lead to everybody saying:
a) I never watch TV except for exceptional documentaties on BBC2/The Discovery Channel
b) You should totally watch /TV flavour of the day/ whether that's Firefly or Buffy or Doctor Who.
Just trust me that I hate TV, and I've hated it since I was a kid and I'm unlikely to change my mind now. Hating it gives me time to read and write and mess about online.
"Shadowunit", as I understand what the creators have said, mimics the pattern of a TV show and the way people get into TV shows. This is very unlikely to appeal to me.
If I'm ever trapped on a desert island with nothing but Shadowunit and vampire books, I'll read them. But right now, the world is full of new things I want to read and old things I want to re-read and write about here. I suppose I may be a closed-minded old curmudgeon, but there are 75 books on that "library list" and 10 on the "hard sell" list.
VIEW ALL BY · Saturday September 06, 2008 07:52am EDT
VIEW ALL BY · Saturday September 06, 2008 08:01am EDT
Book, please!
VIEW ALL BY · Saturday September 06, 2008 10:59am EDT
VIEW ALL BY · Saturday September 06, 2008 11:08am EDT
VIEW ALL BY · Saturday September 06, 2008 11:35am EDT
Saturday September 06, 2008 11:37am EDT
Reading my post I see that I wasn't clear. I don't expect a link to amazon (or any other specific seller), I understand the constraints that a site like this operates under. My preference would be that the title is plain text and not a link to the publisher.
I am aware that you can start selecting before the link but that sometimes is a pain, perhaps I am lazy :)
I think an amazon wish-list would be awesome if someone is really bored, hint hint :) And thanks again for compiling this list, I have a lot of reading to do.
VIEW ALL BY · Saturday September 06, 2008 12:09pm EDT
Saturday September 06, 2008 12:11pm EDT
I couldn't read Grunts at all, but I did like Mary Gentle's Ash books. I'm not liking the Ilario books as well, however.
Greg Keyes started off well with the Kingdoms of Thorn and Bone books. I think it loses lots of energy by the last volume, though. But it started with some really interesting ideas and concepts.
And if you read Barry Hughart, stop with The Bridge of Birds. As others have said, the other two books about Master Li and Number Ten Ox don't really cover any new ground. Mr. Hughart seems to have had one really good book in him, and BoB was it. It's my second favorite book of all time.
And while I enjoyed the nods to Patrick O'Brian in the Novik books, I really couldn't quite buy the way they were using all the men on the dragons. But maybe that's just a failure of my imagination.
Saturday September 06, 2008 12:35pm EDT
Saturday September 06, 2008 01:11pm EDT
There's very little BDSM in the Jacqueline Carey series. It's more the protagonist dealing with geopolitical meltdown, with some sexual politics thrown in. If you're so tired of what you feel to be generic, try something that might be the opposite. (Or might not be for you, your call.)
"I hated Grunts. It seemed to be a direct attack on Tolkien and everything I love about fantasy."
Are you seriously kidding me? You do a column about how you hate that so much of fantasy is warmed over generic Tolkein that doesn't float your boat, and then say you hate something that tried a different take? Stay away from Stan Nicholls' Orcs then too, I would suggest. We wouldn't want anyone thinking creatively there. That being said, Ash is not anti-Tolkein in the least. Gentle does lots of different kinds of stories in fantasy and sf. Try her gargoyle novel, it's very McKillip in approach.
Nalo Hopkinson's Brown Girl in the Ring is a SF novel. Don't know if that makes any difference to you or not.
Definitely don't read Scott Lynch's sequel to Lies of Locke Lamora if you have a pirate problem, but if you like C.J. Cherryh -- and it seems you do - than Lies may be something of interest.
We took a risk with your Tooth & Claw, didn't we, so at the least you might want to take a risk with Novik and see if you really would want to gnaw your own leg off or not.
I still think your way of asking for recommendations sucks frogs, but thank you for putting up the list of authors so that they get some exposure.
Saturday September 06, 2008 01:14pm EDT
VIEW ALL BY · Saturday September 06, 2008 01:25pm EDT
I have about a dozen recommendations,classics and oddballs,which do not appear on the lists,should I put them here or on the original post?
A few words on the received suggestions:
Jeffrey Ford is very good.I loved everything's written.Everyone should go to the old Sci-fiction site and read the brilliant Empire of Ice-Cream.
Murakami,Schulz,Pelevin and Sorokin are quite removed from the English tradition of fantasy.Definitely no "same old,same old" there.
Murakami: The Wind-Up Bird Chronicle and Norwegian Wood are the best.Wonderful tales of imperfect coming of age,crisis and/or (failed?) maturation in a chaotic world.
Pelevin and Sorokin continue in Bulgakov's tradition of mixing weird imagination and political satire.
Schulz's book is a childhood memoir seen through the stained glass of a dreamlike imagination.
Another highly talented and original writer is Matt Ruff.None of his books resemble one another.The "fantasy" one is the first,Fool on the Hill.
Hard sells:
BDSM
A while ago I've recommended the Adminstration by Manna Francis.One of the most common responses to the series is:BDSM is really not my thing,yet I loved it.It's Sf,but I really think it deserves to be known outside its little ghetto of original slashdom.All the series is online,so everyone can have a look and decide for him/herself.
Perec:Magical realism? More like Pynchon + Proust.Alliteration aside,his novel reminded me a bit of V.
VIEW ALL BY · Saturday September 06, 2008 01:28pm EDT
If you don't feel like reading Mark Millar's Lonely Werewolf Girl, at least give The Good Fairies of New York a try. Not only did I laugh until I cried reading it, I also discovered the New York Dolls, another good thing. I also came to forgive Mark Millar for winning the World Fantasy Award for Thraxas (under the pseudonym Martin Scott). I make no apologies when asserting that Glen Cook did fantasy/comedy noir first, and better with the Garret PI series, and the World Fantasy Award judges were smoking something truly ghastly when making their judgments. Still, as mentioned, all was forgiven when I read The Good Fairies of New York. The new edition comes with a foreword by Neil Gaiman, no less.
Hal Duncan's books are beautifully written, yet I still didn't finish either of them. And I tried, I really did.
I misspelled Murakami in my earlier suggestion, but I'm not kidding when I say he's easily one of my favorite writers. Even his regular fiction, such as Dance Dance Dance or Norwegian Wood are a sort of comfort food for me. The only western writer who comes close in tone and emotion would be Jonathan Carrol, who I'm reluctant to second as a "must-read" author because his work is so hit and miss. I'd still recommend The Wooden Sea though, as fantasy in the magic realism sense.
There is a lot of discussion about Mieville. My two cents is that Perdido Street Station and Iron Council are my favorites of the Bas Lag books, though The Scar still works for pure originality, pirates notwithstanding.
In terms of just not having enough hours in ones life to read all of these things, you may as well drop the entire list right now if you're planning to read the Malazan books. Those things are dense. They're good though, but I'm not as fervent a disciple as some others on the intertrons [ducks head].
New Amsterdam has vampires, but in a good way. It's not about them (or indeed the werewolf).
All in all, the list is great, because now I have one too. And there really isn't enough hours in the day.
VIEW ALL BY · Saturday September 06, 2008 02:00pm EDT
Sold!
Saturday September 06, 2008 02:07pm EDT
VIEW ALL BY · Saturday September 06, 2008 02:48pm EDT
Tragon, of course she knows of it. I think she's applying the Latin maxim De mortuis nil nisi bonum.
VIEW ALL BY · Saturday September 06, 2008 03:06pm EDT
VIEW ALL BY · Saturday September 06, 2008 04:49pm EDT
VIEW ALL BY · Saturday September 06, 2008 05:41pm EDT
You're fighting a windmill somewhere over in the distance, and I can see you doing it, but it's a windmill that's almost entirely in your head. I'm not the person you're imagining and my life is nothing like that. It's fine if you disagree with me about there being too much generic fantasy or indeed anything else, but I'd appreciate it if you disagreed with *me*, and not some phantasm.
Saturday September 06, 2008 05:50pm EDT
i almost gave up on Novik's books - until i read the 4th book. Her imagining of Africa made me re-read the entire series; i'd like to suggest that potential readers read the series as a meditation on world history with the premise: what if EVERY major race/culture was possessed of an artifact that made all civilizations equal at a time when European culture was attempting to colonize the East and the West?
i heartily recommend against R. Scott Bakker.
i heartily recommend Sean Williams' Initiate Brother series, as well as his Voidworld's series. Eric Flint's Philosophical Strangler (available from Baen Free), Lorna Freeman's Borderland's series, and another vote for Patrick Rothfuss' book.
Finally, please please PLEASE try Steven Erikson's Malazan epic. hands down the best fantasy world-building series ever.
VIEW ALL BY · Saturday September 06, 2008 06:35pm EDT
Saturday September 06, 2008 10:49pm EDT
VIEW ALL BY · Sunday September 07, 2008 04:19am EDT
Shadowunit and Mary Gentle.
The first is at least freely available and short enough to try an episode.
Mary Gentle's recent books, on the other hand, are huge. The ones you list are nothing at all like Grunts, at least on the surface, but they're a pretty gigantic committment. And, when hurled with great force, likely to cause expensive structural damage.
I think your basic reasons can be challenged in both cases, on the grounds of being mistaken assumptions. But you'd still be taking a risk with the time and effort needed to read one, just as anyone does with an unfamiliar author. Reading a Shadowunit episode is risking less, but for what return?
They're not equal returns, and what can a reader afford to lose? That's the conundrum.
(Jo, you may skip the remainder of this post.)
I enjoyed Shadowunit until the last episode. That was big, not itself a problem, and took the story in directions which didn't entertain me. It smashed through the limits of network TV like an out-of-control 18-wheeler, presenting a grim, depressing, hopeless, story. It came across to me like a relentless downer. I can't really recommend it any more.
And, like Mary Gentle's books, I can't really call it fantasy. There is a weirdness to it, but at the heart they're SF, of the "any sufficiently advanced technology" sort. Ash is firmly embroiled in real history, and the weirdness is a sort of magical technology, being sort of quantum rather than a fantasy alternate world.
Mary Gentle's books can be hard work, but the rewards are there. I've found them worth reading, but the effort is a barrier. Somehow, I have to find the time and energy, and that's not easy for me. I would recommend them, but I'd be telling you to give up too much in the trial.
VIEW ALL BY · Sunday September 07, 2008 06:48am EDT
Sold!
Yes,but be careful because the tone is very different.Sorokin is often much darker than Bulgakov,for example.
Anyway,since new suggestions have begun to creep in,I've decided to post my selection here.
Mervyn Peake:Gormenghast trilogy,Titus Groan in particular.
Really surprised noone mentioned it already.
Grotesque,claustrophobic,funny.
Jean Ray: Malpertuis.A powerful wizard has captured the essence of the Greek Gods and bound them to human forms.
At his death,his nephew inherits the house in which the gods are forced to live.All is not going to go well.
Possibly the greatest fantasy outside the English language.
Shirley Jackson.Simply the greatest horror writer of all time. The Sundial,The Haunting of Hill House,We Have Always Lived in the Castle.
Jan Potocki The Manuscript Found in Saragossa .
An early classic.Stories within stories, kabbalah,secret societies,robbers,inquisitors,conspiracies,hallucinations,philosophic ramblings...
David Lindsay A Voyage to Arcturus.
Available from Project Gutenberg and various others.
Serious contender for the The Weirdest Book in the World.
Flawed,but powerful and brillantly weird.
Inspiration for Lewis'space trilogy,but so much better.
Gustav Meyrink The Golem,The White Dominican,The Angel of the West Window,the collected short stories in The German Philistine's Horn (don't know the availabilty since I've read them in German).
Weird fiction influenced by alchemy,kabbalah,theosophy and oriental philosophies.
At times his rigour and abstraction approach Kafka.There's even a black hole ante-litteram in one of the short stories.
John Crowley Little,Big .Hundred years in the life of a human family at the edge of Fairyland in contemporary America.One day I'll also get around reading the four volumes of Aegypt .
Juan Rulfo, Pedro Paramo .Ok,it's generally considered magical realism,but a masterpiece.
Kelly Link, Stranger Things Happen and Magic for Beginners .
First one available online.Delicious weirdness.
Ellen Kushner, Swordspoint.One of the finest examples of fantasy of manners.
Elizabeth Hand, Waking the Moon.The darkest aspects of the new agey-wiccan trope of the female moon goddess.
Tm Powers The Anubis Gates,Declare,The Stress of Her Regard ,alas,some vampires.
Karl Edward Wagner. Kane (Cain) is a vicious barbarian who's not only immortal and inhumanly strong,but also extremely intelligent.The best of the Conan epigons.
José Eduardo Agualusa The Book of Chameleons.
In Angola an albino man makes his living by forging secret identities and invented pasts.His story is narrated by his pet gecko,who is really a reincarnated man and can see the dreams of his clients.
Arto Paasilinna, The Bear's best Friend.
Sadly it seems this has not been translated in English.
A wonderful little novel about an already peculiar Lutheran pastor who adopts an orphaned bear,gets defrocked and finally embarks in a quixotic voyage around Europe and Russia.
Lots of humor,but also surprisingly dark in places,it leaves you with a warm,fuzzy feeling (horrible pun,but I couldn't resist).
VIEW ALL BY · Sunday September 07, 2008 06:52am EDT · amended on Sunday September 07, 2008 06:56am EDT
Grim, depressing, hopeless... isn't that very The Sandbaggers?
New Amsterdam has a vampire. An awesome vampire, and I hate vampires.
Come to think of it, I actually really do hate vampires. The bits of the Dresden series that have vampires all over the place are the bits I cannot read. They're far and few between, but when they happen, it's like watching the sky rain vampires. Thankfully, there are many bits in every book, and sometimes even entire books, where there are no vampires whatsoever. Usually it's more faeries, daemons, and stuff these days.
(I got addicted after my first Dresden book, one of the late, non-vampiry ones. And ever since then I have been TRAPPED, I tell you, and must read all the books, ignoring the vampy bits, such as they are, as much as possible. You are forewarned.)
You'll definitely want to add Whiskey and Water to your trio of Elizabeth Bear's Promethean series books. Blood and Iron is not so complete without Whiskey and Water; similarly for Ink and Steel and Hell and Earth.
The Inspector Chen series is a breath of fresh air in more ways than one---turning away from the standard fantasy-gumshoe sub-genre, and a true Eastern take, not a Western take or a Westernized Eastern take, on fantasy. For instance, the ambulatory teapot is a very nice touch. You'll know when you read it.
The Wizard Knight is definitely different, and draws closer to the "source", about as close as where Tolkien drew his creative waters or whatnot. I liked the Knight. Not sure on the Wizard.
VIEW ALL BY · Sunday September 07, 2008 08:54am EDT
I'm a little surprised you haven't read Carroll. Or that no-one has suggested Graham Joyce. The Facts Of Life and The Limits Of Enchantment are just wonderful novels.
About the no vampires thing - didn't I hear you give hearty recommendations the other year for The Dragon Waiting by John M. Ford? Doesn't that have vampires in it? Or is that the exception ...
VIEW ALL BY · Sunday September 07, 2008 09:34am EDT
VIEW ALL BY · Sunday September 07, 2008 11:14am EDT
The great thing about libraries is that I'm not making a huge commitment when I decide to try a large hardcover book: if it doesn't work for me, I put it down, go do something else, and take the book back to the library. (And if it does work for me, I read it, enjoy it, maybe tell a friend about it, and take it back to the library. The library has lots of storage space.) If I do like the book, I may get more enjoyment because it's longer, but pleasure isn't a simple linear thing: reading a good book for six hours isn't necessarily twice as good as reading a shorter good book for three. It may be as good, or half as, or eight times as, depending on the book, and on my state of mind.
There are books I've liked but that took a while to get into; someone approaching them with the attitude in my first paragraph may stop reading. That's fine. As noted elsewhere in this thread, there are a lot of good books and good stories, and if something doesn't work for a person, there's more out there.
Sunday September 07, 2008 02:45pm EDT
I hate Ash for the blatant deck-stacking in favour of a viciously nihilistic worldview, for having the idea content of a middling-good Greg Egan story diluted in ninety-nine parts superfluous verbiage, and for the ending not making any sense whatsoever; I also hated the language-use choices, but that i will admit is just me.
I think Lies of Locke Lamora is an easy book to bounce off if you have taken to the clever witty scam stuff at the beginning and feel betrayed by the tonal shift part-way through. I nearly gave it away, but I liked it a lot better on my second reading knowing that was going to happen.
The Dresden books are a lot of fun and they hit me right on my plot addiction button, but that is despite a number of things not to my taste, notably where their sense of supposed humour lies; as post-Chandler noir voice urban dark fantasy goes, they're not even in shouting distance of something as good as Mike Carey's Felix Castor books.
VIEW ALL BY · Sunday September 07, 2008 03:34pm EDT
The thing for me being that the scam stuff seemed so pointless--they didn't need the money, and wouldn't know what to do with it when they got it. Maybe this is meant to be crazy, or even ironic, but it didn't work for me.
Sunday September 07, 2008 04:19pm EDT
I really liked Locke Lamora; as for Perdido Street Station, I was amazed by the imagination and world-building, and there were parts of great dramatic tension, but overall I thought the storytelling was lacking, and after getting through almost the entire book, I couldn't care enough to keep reading the last 30-40 pages. I'm a Temeraire fan, but I haven't really spent much time thinking about alternate history narratives, and I see your point.
I'm just reading This Is the Way the World Ends by James Morrow, described as something like "the Alice in Wonderland of Nuclear War" and it's very clever, beautifully written, thought-provoking, but in the way of some tongue-in-cheek satirical stuff, you never truly care so much about the characters. The writing, though!
Sunday September 07, 2008 06:57pm EDT
I also recommend all of Tim Powers' later books (from The Anubis Gates onward) except The Stress of Her Regard (has vampires, or a race of creatures that resemble vampires in one stage of their life-cycle, IIRC). Declare is probably his best.
On Mieville: I enjoyed The Scar a bit better than the other two Bas-Lag books, but would recommend all three.
On Hughart: I agree the second two are a bit repetitive and not as original as Bridge of Birds, but they still contain good stuff. I haven't re-read them as often as Bridge of Birds, however.
Vampires are strange. Dracula is one of my favorite nineteenth-century novels, I've read it four or five times, but there are very few more recent vampire novels that appeal to me in the slightest. Kind of like loving Tolkien and hating the vast shelves-full of extruded fantasy product Tolkien-imitations, perhaps. Haven't read Agyar yet, though it's in my queue.
VIEW ALL BY · Sunday September 07, 2008 09:29pm EDT
His recent books are somewhat hard to categorise: they are a type of urban fantasy. The stories are set against a background where the fantastical elements inform but do not contradict recorded events, like a secret history. But that description doesn't come close to capturing the breadth & depth of the writing.
I heartily recommend "Last Call", "Declare" and "Expiration Date".
VIEW ALL BY · Sunday September 07, 2008 09:37pm EDT
Sunday September 07, 2008 10:23pm EDT
I loved Jonathan Stroud's Bartimaeus Trilogy. Alternate history, caste system based on magic, magic based on the summoning of demons, story told from multiple perspectives.
Eion Colfer's Artemis Fowl series is a lot of fun. Fairies, James Bondesque gadgets and adventure, environmentalism.
Un Lun Dun, as mentioned by other posters, is great.
VIEW ALL BY · Monday September 08, 2008 12:28am EDT
Whereas I respect Carey's book more, but don't actually like it as much. It's "better" in an objective sense, but the sense of fun that Butcher has by the bucket-load is completely missing.
VIEW ALL BY · Monday September 08, 2008 04:52pm EDT
Otherwise I'd like to cosign on the Tim Powers books. Obviously Last Call won the world fantasy award so its more well known, but I'd recc'd Declare extremely highly (spies, espionage, alt-history and a gradually revealed fantastic element that is just so atmospheric and mind-blowing... great read). Also I just finished his Anubis Gates, which I thought read like a magic-infused "To Say Nothing of the Dog" by Connie Willis.
And I just finished Kay Kenyon's Bright of the Sky, which is also great ... its maybe 90%scifi/10%fantasy, although the 10% could be revealed to be entirely science as it goes forward.
VIEW ALL BY · Monday September 08, 2008 04:55pm EDT
Thanks for this discussion.
VIEW ALL BY · Monday September 08, 2008 05:25pm EDT
Slickhop, you're exactly right. Its hard to fight the feeling that everyone should like everything that I do :p Although In regards to the Carey books, which I thought were pretty good (I haven't gotten around to the third one yet), I think its probably better to just skip the books than skim over some sections. The whole pain/pleasure thing is pretty much at the core of whatserface's (been a while.. heh)gifts, and thusly is kind of a running theme, even when tis not at a particularly graphic point. Best avoided if that sort of thing makes one uncomfortable. In my opinion anyway
VIEW ALL BY · Monday September 08, 2008 07:50pm EDT
Glad to see "The Wizard Knight" on the list. It's absolutely lovely.
Monday September 08, 2008 11:33pm EDT
VIEW ALL BY · Tuesday September 09, 2008 05:00am EDT
And then there was the Evil Chicken (I only read the quotes, I stopped reading the series long before that thank God - YMMV): http://news.ansible.co.uk/a233supp.html
VIEW ALL BY · Tuesday September 09, 2008 11:27am EDT
VIEW ALL BY · Wednesday September 10, 2008 05:24am EDT
Thursday September 11, 2008 12:30am EDT
If you're reluctant to try Dresden Files, might I suggest Furies of Calderon as an alternate Jim Butcher novel? One of the podcasts I listened to last summer had him on as a guest, and he related the story of how he started the "Codex Alera" series (of which Furies is the first). Essentially (paraphrasing heavily) he was in a debate on a writer's forum about whether it's bad ideas or bad writers that make bad books. Butcher wound up being challenged to write a good story from a bad idea, and upped the ante by volunteering to do two -- Pokemon and The Lost Roman Legion.
Just shows that sometimes bad or overused ideas can turn into awesome stories.
VIEW ALL BY · Friday September 12, 2008 03:04am EDT
It makes me want to search my heart (and my bookshelf) for my own set of dodgy reasons.
Steve
VIEW ALL BY · Friday September 12, 2008 03:09am EDT
Michael Moorcock's _Wizardry and Wild Romance_ may have spent much of its time putting the boot in to Tolkein, but I do owe it a huge debt, as it's what convinced me that it might possibly be worth my while to pick up a series of books with cheesy b-film titles like _The Shadow of the Torturer_ and _The Claw of the Conciliator_.
Imagine if I'd missed out.
Steve
VIEW ALL BY · Wednesday November 12, 2008 12:43pm EST
VIEW ALL BY · Wednesday November 12, 2008 11:46pm EST
If I can pick one nit, however, on Butcher: I never think of him as fantasy or horror. The Dresden stories are straightup private eye novels. The shamus just carries a powersoaked hockeystick instead of a gat.
Seriously, thank you. You never fail to educate me.
VIEW ALL BY · Saturday December 06, 2008 03:37am EST · amended on Saturday December 06, 2008 03:40am EST
Excellent read. Just finished it myself last month. Won the World Fantasy Award in 1988. Thought I'd give it a try. My money and time was well worth it.
VIEW ALL BY · Saturday December 06, 2008 07:40am EST
VIEW ALL BY · Sunday December 07, 2008 11:23am EST
VIEW ALL BY · Wednesday December 17, 2008 08:00am EST
Not to imply anything about people who *do* enjoy the books, or BDSM, because I have no problem with that, but - on a personal level, the story didn't win me over, and it was for that reason. So if Jo thinks it would bother her, she may well be right.