Author Q&A
Evil Inc. by Glenn Kaplan
On Sale July 10, 2007

Q & A with Glenn Kaplan, author of Evil Inc

 

Evil Inc developed as an idea after one of your 350 interviews with top executives for a non-fiction book, The Big Time. What inspired your new novel? 
The late Bruce Henderson, founder of Boston Consulting Group, sparked the idea when I was interviewing him about what makes corporate executives successful. He said that the kind of men (this was in the early 1980s) who become CEOs of big companies have more in common with sociopaths than most people would care to admit. He went on to cite the diagnostic criteria framed in terms of the executive’s lifeline in the big company. Psychopathology expert Robert Hare, in his recent book Snakes in Suits, says there are two milieus in which psychopaths grow and thrive—prisons and large corporations.

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Are you saying that you have to be psychopath in order to become a CEO?
No, I’m saying that it has been demonstrated that CEOs and psychopaths can have many traits in common. Evil Inc has a character who appears to be the perfect corporate executive with all the right stuff to be CEO.  He turns out to be a serial murderer. The ability to manipulate and charm others is one of the traits of a psychopath; think of Jeffrey Dahmer. Could a psychopath like this become a CEO? Evil Inc is saying that in today’s corporate world, with its current values and the way it rewards certain behaviors and abilities, it just might be possible.

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One issue covered in Evil Inc centers around mass layoffs. Are businesses really served well by them—or is it just the greedy executives who win when pink slips are handed out? 
We have become indifferent to mass layoffs because they have become so common. But the human and economic toll is horrible. It is odd to think that when a business gets in trouble, the employees become the enemy. But in this era of asset shuffling, that is the case. Of course the top-level execs never seem to give themselves the axe, even though cutting a few lavish comp packages could save hundreds of rank and file employees. It is a bitter irony. One of the characters in Evil Inc hisses angrily that the CEO never had to go home and tell his wife he might lose his job because her husband’s division was not profitable enough. She asks, wasn’t it the CEO’s fault if the business was not doing well? Well, yes. But it was her husband who had to pay the price.

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Evil Inc more than suggests there’s no limit to one’s pursuit of riches—even at the expense of lives. But is the real corporate world really that bad?
People kill on the street for $100 sneakers, but we have all seen people who take a street mentality into the boardroom. Fiction is the art of “What if?” And fiction crafted out of timely current events makes us wonder if this could really happen. I think this kind of fiction fascinates us because it holds a mirror up to our moment in history, and in asking what-if, we learn something about the way we really are. As Picasso said, art is a lie that tells the truth. Could the events in Evil Inc really happen? I don’t know. But I do know that many of the amazing business stories you read in the newspaper would never be plausible as fiction, such as Enron, WorldCom, and Tyco, to name just a few.

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But certainly the business world kills careers, mistreats workers, screws the consumer, and breaks the law. Why do you think this rampant violation of common decency is the modus operandi for many corporations?
There is definitely a dark side. We see it in needless pipeline disasters, mining accidents, products made negligently, illegal pollution, and all the destruction caused by the greed scandals. But the business world also builds companies, and creates wealth and opportunity for millions of people. It’s the mortal wrestling match between the good business can do and the evil it can do that interests me. The sad truth is that many companies look at their employees first when it comes time to make cuts, save a buck, or serve the demands of Wall Street. It used to be that wealth creation went hand-in-hand with job creation. Today they have become separate and sometimes mutually exclusive goals.

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Do you think with increased global competition that the shenanigans will only increase as well?
I think more globalization will create more ambiguity. Practices that we consider dirty and even criminal are considered legal and even laudable in other parts of the globe. We are entering a smaller world where absolutes will vanish and everything will become relative. I think our changing world will change us all—in ways we could never expect.

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You make it clear in Evil Inc that government investigators are either politically pressured and paid off to look away—or are just plain incompetent or limited by the law to catch and prosecute these scandals. What kind of reform can you foresee in this arena?
When in history and where on earth have those in power not applied pressure and done whatever it takes to protect their interests and preserve their power? Reform always has an uphill battle against the corrupt side of human nature.

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We can’t help but see one ugly corporate scandal after another in the headlines. What do you think can be done to reign in the corporate scandals?
Certainly Sarbanes-Oxley has increased regulation, oversight, red tape in an effort to make misdeeds harder to commit. But you can’t legislate human nature out of existence. The scandals reflect the fact that for some, no amount of money is enough, no matter how they get it. Capitalism hasn’t failed us; but people fail us all the time.

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What advice would you give to someone wanting to climb the corporate ladder?
Find an industry that resonates with who you are and represents what you do best. Find a company that will appreciate your strengths and your style, a place where you will fit. When climbing the corporate ladder, resist the temptation to accept injury to co-workers and consumers as collateral damage. Then, work like crazy, keep your eyes wide open, and, as the plaque on the desk of a CEO I once knew, said, “Assume nothin’.” And beware of CEOs like Tom Pennington of Evil Inc!

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Can you ever trust a CEO again?
Absolutely, if it’s one of those CEOs with character and integrity (they don’t generally make headlines). But the scandals have trained us to wonder if the CEO does what is best for his gain—or if he really looks out for the company’s welfare and the good of its people. One of the traits of the psychopath is the ability to manipulate people by mirroring their desires and telling them what they want to hear. As we see in Evil Inc, this “talent” can be used very nefariously indeed. Are there examples of this in real life? Certainly.

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What can be done to contain the stratospheric CEO compensation doled out by clubby boards?
Groups of large institutional investors are already on the case, going after supersized pay packages for underperforming executives. All this publicity about the issue will certainly have an impact in time. Right now, most CEOs are paid on the size of their enterprises, not on results. Hence, bigness is its own reward. We are witnessing the pendulum starting to swing back in the direction of pay for performance. In other words, how many other people (shareholders, employees, business partners, community stakeholders) did the CEO help to enrich—and not just him or herself?

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Glenn, as an ad agency creative director for the past two decades, you’ve worked with dozens of Fortune 500 corporations in various campaigns. Do you sense they have any ethical restraints in how they market their products?
The days of the snake oil salesmen are long gone. Marketers selling their wares in any major media today cannot lie. So even if they secretly wish they could, the regulations and self-policing mechanisms prevent them from even thinking of doing so. Can they romance the truth? Of course they do! That is the art of marketing. But if you as a consumer think buying that car or those jeans will instantly make you irresistible to the lover of your choice, well, good luck to you. Interestingly, the Internet has provided scammers and con artists with a whole new (unregulated, unmonitored) world in which to go prospecting for suckers.

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Another issue Evil Inc covers is the growing corporate security industry. Is it really just another name for private armies that answer to no laws?
The corporate security industry can be the fat retired guy who stops shoplifters at the mall or the heavily armed troops who guard the oil refinery in Nigeria. It is a huge and growing global industry. Think of all the services we contract out in Iraq. You can research it just the way I did. Some of the most respectable names in Corporate America are in the business and makes lots of money honestly and honorably. But there is a vague point out on the horizon where the skills and weaponry needed for respectable security duties blur with the skills and weaponry needed for not-so-respectable security duties. It is a kind of moral and political Neverland where the dark doings of business and government go to operate in secrecy. And that’s where Evil Inc takes you.

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You also paint a frightening picture of how easy it is to track someone’s movements, calls, e-mail. Is nothing safe?
Not according to the security and forensic computing experts I spoke to. It’s one of the scary things about this era. You can run but you can’t hide. Not if you use any kind of electronics at all. It seems like hacking into a private or confidential record is as easy as buying a hundred-dollar do-it-yourself-kit.

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Evil Inc shows what a mockery it can be when an evil CEO claims he cares about his employees or customers or the community. Why does it seem that so many companies care about nothing beyond the bottom line?
Some companies do care very sincerely about values beyond the bottom line. Others pay lip service. Still others don’t even bother with that. I am fascinated by hypocrisy, and how effectively hypocrites can mislead and do harm. Although the highest-level dissemblers of the corporate world can’t hold a candle to what even the lowest rung politicians do day in and day out. Politicians really are the Olympic gold medalists of lying. In Evil Inc, CEO Tom Pennington’s mentor tells him that success in the business world is good preparation for high political office.

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The key villain in Evil Inc is also sleeping with a top investigative television reporter. Are you suggesting the news media is in bed with corporate America—or even that they’re one in the same?
One, all of the major media in this country are divisions of huge corporations. Two, wasn’t a high level bank executive recently dismissed for, among other things, an inappropriate relationship with a beautiful TV journalist? In Evil Inc we show a leading journalist sleeping with a corrupt CEO, but the truth is the media, whether intentionally or unintentionally, is incapable of uncovering every wrong in the business world.

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An important moment in Evil Inc is when the CEO changes the name of the scandal-ridden company to Humanifit, saying that their mission is now about benefiting humanity. Isn’t that a bit of a stretch?
Well, a certain tobacco company changed its name to something derived from the word Altruism. And a certain telephone company was renamed along the lines of Truth on the Horizon. Reality consistently trumps fiction. As they say, you can’t make this stuff up.

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So how much money is truly enough for one to enjoy life and honor their ego?
Human beings are endlessly competitive and unsatisfied with their lot. I remember reading an interview with J. Paul Getty shortly before his death. The interviewer’s final question was, how does it feel to be the richest man on earth. Getty said something like, “I don’t feel rich. Not yet.”

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In one scene you suggest it can be sexually gratifying or stimulating to plot your evil plans—or to just review highlights of your evil deed as if glossing over a porn stash. Does violence equal excitement for many?
That is one of the dark corners of the human psyche that people do visit. There is no reason to assume that a fair share of people in positions of power don’t enjoy going there, too.

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One theme of your book shows that some people can distort the ethic of hard work and initiative. Are you knocking motivational authors?
The self-help and get-rich books are recipes for being effective—not for being good. One of my characters happens to be a very bad guy who uses a self-help advice book to help him accomplish his evil more effectively. Yes, I meant it as a comment on the culture of “success can be yours” recipe books. Imagine what a corrupt or violent person is thinking when they embrace this kind of wisdom: “Start by working harder than others could ever imagine. Then find the courage to take risks others only dream of. And you, too, can ascend the pinnacle of success.” Most would use this as a mantra to make money or serve some honorable purpose. But those at Evil Inc see this as a mantra to kill.

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