Tue
Jan 14 2014 1:00pm

Spoiler Thread for Words of Radiance

Words of Radiance Stormlight Archive Brandon Sanderson

Welcome to the spoiler thread for Brandon Sanderson’s Words of Radiance, book two of The Stormlight Archive. We’re posting excerpts and sneak peeks in the weeks to come leading up to the book’s release on March 4th!

The Way of Kings only scratched the surface of the mysteries of this series, and with every page of Words of Radiance theories will blossom and be torn down. Some comments may shed new light on long-held theories and all are sure to have many different interpretations. Join the discussion in the Words of Radiance spoiler thread below!

Spoilers ahead for The Way of Kings and Words of Radiance, naturally.

124 comments
Alice Arneson
1. Wetlandernw
So Carl, what was it we were going to discuss after you'd read WoR? I'll have to go look it up, if you don't remember it...

Huh. I just went and looked it up, and I can't for the life of me think what I wanted to discuss about the development of male literacy. Possibly something to do with a certain character using glyphs to write notes & letters? I dunno.
LexieGirl
2. LexieGirl
Am I the only one who has requested off at work for that day? I refuse to work if I can instead read all of WoR in one sitting.
Alice Arneson
3. Wetlandernw
Lexie @2 - One sitting might be a bit much to ask of your body... This brute is 1088 pages long. That makes it even longer than WoK by about 9%...

Aside from that, there may be some parts where you just have to put the book down so as to not throw it across the room, or so that you can dance properly, or to process what just happened. Or call another fan and squeal out loud.

Just saying... you might want to ask for two or three days. :D
David Foster
4. ZenBossanova
I am sure Brandon is promising that book 3 will be smaller, but I am just going to say, I will not be surprised if some of his Stormlight books are published as two volumes. If they get any longer, they will have to be!
Deana Whitney
5. Braid_Tug
Awh... Thanks Tor.com for giving us a place to chat!
Guess we were taking over the preview chapter posts a little much.

@Wet, Book comes out March 4th. My Birthday is Thursday, March 6th. I've been debating taking 2 days off work for it. :-) Give myself a 4 day weekend to crack into it. Thanks for the warning that we might want to throw the book. That could really hurt something!

@ 4: it could be smaller, but it could be smaller by less than 10%, so that still makes it a very large book. 5th Grade niece saw my hardback copy this weekend of WoK. Her reaction: Wow! You read BIG books!
Margot Virzana
6. LuvURphleb
It's not rude to read during a wedding ceremony or reception, right? I figure if I can resist the pull to Barnes and Noble until Thursday night I will have four days to read the book. But throwing the book... Especially If I happen to be near the wedding cake...
David Foster
7. ZenBossanova
Tell me you are not the one getting married.... you might be able to get away with it, LuvURphleb.
Alice Arneson
8. Wetlandernw
You guys are killing me! Agreed, as long as you're not the one getting married, you might get away with it... especially if you got the ebook on your smartphone. The hardcover is going to be a little large to tuck in your pocket, I'm afraid. And yeah, throwing oversized doorstops at the wedding cake might be frowned upon... I guess it all depends on whether you ever want these people to speak to you again. :D

Braid_Tug @5 - Yeah, I'd recommend the 4-day weekend. Especially if there are people expecting you to feed them, do laundry for them, change their diapers for them... whatever. Those interruptions add up, and you probably can't read the whole thing without some sleep. (On the other hand, if you can just sneak off and check into a hotel with good room service... you're all set!)
Deana Whitney
9. Braid_Tug
So, we now have a countdown of 62 days until "death."
How many here think the WoR is only going to cover half that time?
Somehow I just don't think it will run us to the 61 day Mark, with a big "Tune in next book." BWS is not GRRM, thankfully.

Anyone have a link for a timeline of the first book? I'm not very good at finding things like that on the 17th Shard.
EDIT: Thanks for the suggestions below!

@Wet,with the broken leg, hubby has to do most of that right now. :-) one good think to come from it.
Alice Arneson
10. Wetlandernw
Braid_Tug - I knew something was wrong with that picture... You broke your leg two months too early!! You really, really should have waited until the end of February. :P

Unfortunately, I don't know of any timeline links for WoK, so I can't help with that. Pretty sure there's nothing in the Coppermind, though.
Glen V
11. Ways
Braid @9
I have an Excel spreadsheet timeline that I picked up somewhere in cyberspace back when I first started reading WoK. It didn't make much sense then, and I haven't revisited it yet. Maybe it does now. I'll have a look at it tomorrow (uh, later today) and email it to you if it's coherent.
Daniel Castellanos
12. TheEightChandrian
Not sure if this is the right place to post this but did anybody else noticed the art cover was changed?
Was there a post where they talked about it? Maybe I missed it. Anyway I prefer this alt version of the cover; Kaladin looks better and the ground breaking below his hand looks really cool.
I wonder if Szeth was improved too... (hope so)
LexieGirl
13. Preson
@11

Could you be kind enough to share it in the stormlight wiki? We could all benefit from your efforts!
Erin Boyd
14. pippin9
Part of me wishes the release date was a week later so that it would fall perfectly in the middle of my spring break. No matter, I'll just have to camp out at the bookstore after school all week. Or at least until I can get a copy from the library as I don't want to buy hardback since I have WoK in paperback
Deana Whitney
15. Braid_Tug
@12: there's not be a set post about the art change. But several of us did note it in the first chapter release post.
So far all the comments I've seen about it is that the change is greatly appreciated by everyone.
Jeremy Foote
16. 3SecondCultist
March 4th, eh? Well I guess I'll be skipping class for that.

As someone who just finished reading the five sample chapters... wow. Sanderson is outdoing himself yet again, it seems. I'm really looking forward to seeing more interactions between Dalinar and Kaladin, especially with the whole 'foundation of the Knights Radiant' thing. Anyone else thinking that Adolin will become a problem, though?
Dixon Davis
17. KadesSwordElanor
Tor should have given us chapters 3-5 62 days before the release date. That would really have rattled our brains.
Nadine L.
18. travyl
BraidTug @9, I'm pretty sure, we don't have an exact timeline. So far only the epigraphs had exact dates, and in WoK we don't have a time-correlation between them and the actual chapters.
WoR does give us a good hint though: Navani's notes are "all" form the first day of the year 1174 (*** jes-es-es standing for month 1, week 1, day 1 of the mentioned year***) and since what she describes there hasn't happend yet I guess were'e somewhere a the later part of year 1173 right now, maybe 62 days before 1174?

*** this comes from info at the 17th shard. I don't know if there is a good compilation of information somewhere, but if you want to search for yourself, here might be a good starting point. There is also a spread-sheet with every name of the day of a year listed.
There is some chronology on coppermind also, but it only gives the year of events, nothing detailed about WoK.
edited because of errors due to spren-interference.
Matt Spencer
19. Iarvin
@16 3SecondCultist

If Adolin becomes Gawyn's spirit brother I shall be frustrated.
LexieGirl
20. Illumine
I find it suspicious that the glyph on Dalinar's wall for "death" looks more like "broken." Especially considering that Odium has been referred to as "the Broken One" (WoK ch.11 epigraph)…
Jeremy Foote
21. 3SecondCultist
@20 That actually leads me to an interesting phenomenon that I've noticed. Most of the occassions at which Surgebinding is talked about at length, there is mention of the Nahel Bond between the associated spren and the binder, right? And Honor, or the Almighty has been heavily associated with the ten orders of magic of the Knights Radiant, who we all know to be Surgebinders in their own right.

I've seen theories like this before, but can't Odium and Honor be paired Shards, very much like Ruin and Preservation from the original Mistborn trilogy? While Honor is all about binding things together, Odium is all about separating them and tearing them apart. It's why he goes around Splintering all of the other Shards, and could also be another reason why he doesn't pick any of them up. Which totally makes sense, if you take the reading that 'honor' is all about unity and 'hatred' is all about separation. 'The Broken One' would be a pretty meaningful name, if that were the case.
Alice Arneson
22. Wetlandernw
TheEightChandrian @12 – I don’t think there’s been an official post about the changes to the cover art yet, but it’s definitely changed. I’m sort of assuming that at some point, we’ll get a new downloadable version, hopefully accompanied by another Michael Whelan post about the process! :D I do know that in October, Brandon mentioned that Mr. Whelan had actually painted over the original, much to his (BWS) astonishment, and that he was very excited about the changes.

pippin9 @14 – Get your name on the list at the library now, if you’ve not already done so!

Kade’sSwordElanor @17 – That would have been epic.

travyl @18 – I think you’re right; this is taking place in the later part of 1173. I don’t think Brandon publishes an official chronology, though I believe he gets it pretty well worked out; I also don’t think he gives quite as many cues as RJ did in WoT to be able to figure it out. Good catch on Navani’s journal dates.
LexieGirl
24. STBLST
@21, interesting observation! I note, however, that Lift's spren, Windle, appears to be a Cultivation spren - it claims to have been involved in cultivating things (ideas) in the Cognitive Realm (Shadesmar). The female Knight Radiant in Dalinar's vision in WOK used Regrowth to heal Dalinar's wounds and the more serious ones of the woman. She also wielded a shardblade, as I recall. She may be connected to an Honorspren but of a different order than Windrunners (Kaladin's order). The character of the sprens involved with Jasnah and Shallan (Shallan's appears to be just a complex geometric figure) have not been revealed, but they would fit better into the physical rather than 'emotional' category.
Heim Kirin Grewal
25. kei_rin
This has been rattling around in my brain for a while now and I don't know if it'll go anywhere.

I find it interesting that Shallan's spren can also be called liespren but they require a truth in order to bond.

I forgot where but I think it was hinted in the last book that Elhokar might be able to see the same spren as Shallan. (Does anyone else remember this or is my memory making things up again?) Which would be something interesting if he ever gets pushed into bonding with the spren that are stalking him.
LexieGirl
26. Illumine
@25 – Yes, you're correct. In WoK chapter 58, Elhokar says, "They watch me. Always. Waiting. I see their faces in mirrors. Symbols, twisted, inhuman…”

If he's attracting "liespren" does that mean he, like Shallan, is harboring a secret?
Cory S.
27. Hungry_For_Hands
@26 - One thought I had about this. It is mentioned in one of the preview chapters that cryptics (liespren) are almost like the Lighteyes of the cognitive realm spren. If the cryptics are schemers, maybe they are watching Elhokar for some reason other than wanting to bond with him as a Knight Radiant. Perhaps they realize he is important in some way to the coming storm and are keeping tabs on him. I'm not sure where this would lead, but it seems plausible to me.
Nadine L.
28. travyl
I can't help but think that Brandon used the term "liespren" because fans decided to call them Truthspren.
It's Jasnah speaking, so she doesn't have to be right and the Cryptics themselves apparently don't like the term, indicating that it's not a correct description of the "idea, which sparked them to life."
Cory S.
29. Hungry_For_Hands
@28 Travyl - I agree with you. My absolute very first thought when I saw "liespren" was that Brandon was having a good laugh at(with?) us.
LexieGirl
31. Splotte
I like to think I'm in the loop, having read most of the books associated with the Cosmere, but all you guys talking about theories (not to mention straight-up Stormlight theories) make me realize how little I know...
Clearly I need to set apart some time to go devour the forums on it. :P
LexieGirl
32. Rayd
For Shallan's spren, I liked this post from the Chapter 3-5 thread :

53. CorwinOfAmber
"
Now Shallan is bonded with a liespren. But they don't like that name;
they prefer to be called cryptics. That makes me think that liespren is a
bit of a misnomer. I don't think the liespren was attracted to her
because she lies. I'd argue it's because she keeps things hidden. A
subtle, but important, I think, difference. It needed a truth from
Shallan for soulcasting, a truth she had kept hidden. And it begs the
question, what influence will it have on Shallan? I think a previous
commenter mentioned that her order's surges are called illusions. Maybe a
more accurate description of cryptics is "hidden truth spren.""
LexieGirl
33. TrainRider
The thing I am interested to see is the cryptic/honorspren dynamic, especially given Syl's annoyance at Kaladin in WoK when he lied or didn't reveal things. This dynamic will be even more interesting if Shallan and Adolin do eventually pair up. Adolin doesnt like Kaladin already and so any percieved mistreatment of his mistress wont go down well.

Also, Jasnah clakming the voidbringers were spren created by the concept of 'the enemy' surely means that the bigger the enemy, the greater the amount of voidbringers in Shadesmar? That would be why uniting Alethkar is dangerous as it allows both the parshendi and the Alethi a bigger enemy and so stronger voidbrjngers?
Birgit
34. birgit
Shallan's talent seems to have something to do with art. Maybe the "lie" is really the artist's interpretation of reality. What is the relationship between Cryptics and Creationspren?
Alice Arneson
35. Wetlandernw
Oh, my. I think I may have just realized something... I promise I will tell you what it is later, but you people are so much fun! and the insights here (and on the early-release segments), with only a prologue and 5 chapters, are amazing! Of course, some of them are wrong, but some of the wrong ones are wrong in... very interesting ways. Oh, my.

(I really hope I'm right about what I may have just figured out, because it would be ultimate coolness. And hilarity.)
Deana Whitney
36. Braid_Tug
@35, Wet: So you are not meaning to but your last line is almost as cruel a tease as Carl in Chapter 52! :-)

But I’m now really going to be looking at information relating to Birgit’s idea @34. Because being able to take photographic Memories like Shallan does is just supernatural. Being a great artist happens in RL. Being able to draw a fracking Fractal pattern from a memory? That’s just beyond the pale.
Alice Arneson
37. Wetlandernw
:D

I'll confess to a double purpose: Partly just to be annoying (who, me???), and partly because I really, really don't want to forget to discuss this bit when the book comes out. I don't know if I'm right, and I won't be able to prove it for a while yet (not until someone asks Brandon about it, if then!), but I really want to remember to bring it up for discussion. This way, I have a whole community worth of people to help me remember.
Nadine L.
38. travyl
Maybe we could help you remeber better if you describe the scene in WoR, which caused you to realize said something. You could white it out, so we can't read it yet ;)
Dixon Davis
39. KadesSwordElanor
To All:

Wet provided me with major spoilers in my shout box and made me promise not to share. But I don’t have the same morals as Wet. Vin will show up on Roshar at some point. Renarin will be a KR, and Chewbacca will be his spren. Iron Man helped develop the schematics for the Shardplate. Neville Longbottom will eventually befriend Kaladin, and teach him about the true power, taught to Neville by Rand Al’Thor. Frodo will return from the Grey Havens with the one ring re-forged, to control the Heralds.
LexieGirl
40. Kobool
@39

Il read that book. just start writing !
Alice Arneson
41. Wetlandernw
Hey, there were conditions on that!!! Hmph. Well. Can't trust anybody these days. ::sulks::

At least you left out the conversation between Wit and Rand...
Chris R
43. up2stuff
@41,
Shhh. Don't spoil Hoids plan to use the Tardis to bring and army of Robocops to offset the Emperors clone army in the Everstorm.
Patrick Mosbacker
44. Patillian
OK, this is related to Dalinar's announcement that he intends to reform the Knights Radiant. It’s kind of long, but I don’t know how to say it any shorter. I know Dalinar being in a distinct order, most often the Stonewards, is the theory most batted around lately, but doesn’t most of the evidence that he is surgebinding point toward having the same values and same type of spren as Kaladin, and thus a Windrunner? Isn’t some duplication more expected than exactly one of each order among our main characters? Maybe honorspren are attracted to honorable warriors? That would also make an interesting dynamic between Dalinar and Kaladin as more of their abilities come out in the open and the KR orders are organized. Kaladin could instruct his own superior in what he knows of the “lashings” and how to inhale Stormlight, causing power balance issues as he spars with and hits the High Prince—Adolin could lose his temper quite easily at this—and perhaps convince Dalinar that he should be the champion spoken of in the vision in the Purelake. I know Szeth thinks that plate interferes with the powers, but there’s a lot we don’t know. Szeth isn’t bound to a spren. What limits does he have besides losing Stormlight more quickly? And could the armor work just fine with the enhanced strength, speed, and coordination of using Stormlight, and only interfere with the lashing powers that Dalinar has not used yet?

I think a windspren/honorspren has bonded w/ Dalinar like Syl was with Kaladin clear back in Amaram’s army, but it seems she has not spoken openly with Dalinar while gaining sentience. Scared of his position, his shardblade, other?

These pg. numbers are from the paperback:
Pg. 223, 226 Dalinar is racing Elhokar to the top of a rock formation on the way to the chasmfiend hunt, and the Thrill takes over causing Dalinar to push for victory…when “wind ruffled his cape” and he hears the voice “Unite them.” He lets Elhokar win. The wind comes again as they talk, and Dalinar immediately recalls his first vision when he was told to unite the squabbling people.

Pg. 249-250 “Nothing else mattered” to Dalinar than helping Elhokar “alone and in danger”–someone who cannot help himself—and he runs with speed that Adolin thinks is far beyond what even shardplate should grant, incredibly catches the huge chasmfiend claw, and the first mention of his armor seeming to glow.

Pg. 1093 The Parshendi archers attack Kaladin’s bridgemen during the regular battle after Kaladin first does the bone armor routine during a Dalinar/Sadeas joint plateau assault. The regular soldiers refuse to engage the archers, and Kaladin’s men are “exposed. Perfect targets.”Again, those who cannot protect themselves. Dalinar appears at super speed out of nowhere and takes out 50 archers “in seconds.” His armor appears to glow for the 2nd time as he salutes the bridgemen.
(Possible hole – His armor doesn’t glow when he rushes to save Sadeas from the Parshendi shortly before this, and his powers appear to be the “regular” powers from shardplate instead of extra super powers. Wind is only mentioned as blowing as he rode his horse. He does feel the Thrill, which maybe is opposite of KR feeling while killing and prevents the honorable feeling?)
Pg. 467-468 Dalinar goes after a gemheart after not trying for a few months. While slaughtering Parshendi, he feels the Thrill “so sweet” and thinks of his invulnerability as a “force of nature” and sees with “clarity” that he needs to attack more often for glory and gemhearts…until the Thrill suddenly vanishes and he feels totally revolted by the senseless slaughter. As he surveys the aftermath a few minutes later, he returns to reflecting on how easy it was for shardbearers to kill large numbers. “Once these weapons meant protecting, a voice inside of him whispered…A few windspren danced past in the air, nearly invisible...Life before death. What was that voice?”
They also spot a Parshendi shardbearer observing them from a distance. Could one/some of them perhaps see his spren like Rock can? This might explain why the shardbearer at the end, likely the same one as here, is specifically looking for Dalinar.

I also think I remember one other battle scene with a small mention of wind spren around Dalinar that was brought up in a reread post a few months ago, but I can't find it now.

Or could another order have spren that appear similar to honrspren and have similar protective values?
Birgit
45. birgit
If there are Honorspren and Cultivationspren there must be different types of each if there are 10 orders of Knights Radiant with 10 different spren. Dalinar and Kaladin could have different spren that are both Honorspren. Jasnah's classification of naturespren and conceptspren doesn't have to be the same as the difference between Honorspren and Cultivationspren. Windspren could be lesser Honorspren and that is why Syl and Dalinar's spren seem like windspren before they regain awareness. Creationspren are probably lesser Cultivationspren (creation and cultivation seem related) but are more concepts than natural phenomena.
Tricia Irish
46. Tektonica
Question everyone....

I know Kalidan rejected the Shardblade when he won it protecting Amaran, and Syl approved of this rejection. She does not appera to like Shardblades. But given his rising Radiant Powers, shouldn't Kaladin be able to summon one of his own? What will Syl think about that? And will he learn to use it, should he be able to summon one, as he is trained as a Spear man? A Shard Spear? Perhaps, given his order, he would summon an Honor blade....or are those just for the Heralds?
Anneke van Staden
47. QueenofDreams
No one's entirely sure about the shardblade question. There's a fair amount of speculation about how it's made and why Syl doesn't like it. Honourblades were for the Heralds only.
LexieGirl
48. STBLST
@44, those were good references to the hints that Dalinar is on his way to becoming a Knight Radiant, although not as advanced as Kaladin. On the other hand, he has visions every highstorm, while Kaladin just had the one vision. The latter is presumably due to their different intended functions, Dalinar as the founder of the KRs, with Kaladin as their champion.

The actions of the Parshendi shardbearer are better explicated in the WOR excerpt about Eshenai. She suspects and later determines that the shardbearer leading Dalinar's army is Dalinar himself with whom she wishes to negotiate. The Parshendi army was much smaller than the Alethi forces at the beginning of the vengeance war, and now they face exinction given their few remaining numbers. For Eshenai, who is the general of their forces, its either negotiation with a foe seeking vengeance or finding a way of summoning the dreaded Voidbringers.
Patrick Mosbacker
49. Patillian
@45 Interesting points. I read the passage, but too excitedly and quickly and I need to go back and grok Jasnah's explanation. So if there were different types of honorspren, would they all appear similar to Syl, but with different powers? If Jasnah's and Shallan's spren are both cultivationspren, they're both pretty different in appearance and power. And Lift's would really fit a "Cultivation" mold and also be different. How would other honorspren *not* bind things? Or be a Stoneward rather than a Windrunner if it's always acting like a windspren? There's too much we don't know, but the appearances so far still strongly suggests to me that Dalinar is being chosen for similar reasons to Kaladin and would most likely manifest the same powers.

Cryptics are the "lighteyes" implying intelligence and planning, and both Lift's and Jasnah's spren chose them in a fashion. Jasnah's rebelled to do it and Lift's had cultivated gardens and was directed by some sort of master....

Could the cultivationspren types be searching out capable types, regardless of personal characteristics, or at least accepting people more willing or able to lie, steal, etc? And they are conciously planning these bonds for whatever reasons of their own? And they have to cross the barrier from the cognitive realm now and overcome the loss of memory?

While various types of honorspren have been lost in the physical realm ever since the Recreance, with no memory, until they are naturally attracted again to someone exhibiting the honorable characteristics they require to form the bond? This would fit the vision of the Stonewards and Windrunners acting together to abandon their swords and plate and explain the screaming and horrible evil done to the spren. It would also fit @45's theory.

If so, did the ancient Knights Radiant ever feature conflict between two groups of very different people bonded to spren with very different personalities? Were the cultivationspren somehow able to escape the consequences of the honorspren losing sentience for centuries?

@48 I wonder if I read a version of that excerpt that was shorter than what you have shared? Hmmmm. I wonder if Parshedi could bond with a spren and surgebind? Voidbind? Why or why not?
Nadine L.
50. travyl
Cross-posting form the WoR Chapter 3-5 thread,
because my musings on the topic don't really belong there...
Zen @116 posted there the link and an excerpt form Brandon Sanderson's website with the back / flap cover text of WoR.

The cited text "confirms" Kaladin as Windrunner, Shallan as Lightweaver and makes it IMO very likely that Dalinar will be a Bondsmith and most likely this Order must "belong" to Kalak/Kelek (due to the description of the him "striving to rebuild what was destroyed")
Although I haven't read the Eshonai excerpt yet, I agree with Zen, that the last "The Explorer, straddling the fates of two peoples" likely is a Parshendi. Now if this is also a Radiant Order, it must mean that the Parshendi can't possibly be the Voidbringers, right??
(Am I making a fool of myself, because I haven't read said excerpt?)
LexieGirl
51. Illumine
@50, travyl -- You definitely seem on the right track! I agree with your assumption about Dalinar being a Bondsmith. Another hint is that the two divine attributes associated with Kalak (Ars Arcanum) are "Resolute" and "Builder" which certainly fits with "stiriving to rebuild what was destroyed" as Dalinar reforming the KR.

I've never considered Explorers being an order, but it would be really neat to see Parshendi as KR. We know the Explorer is a female, which suggests it could be Eshonai, "forced to choose between slow death and a terrible betrayal of all she believes." Considering that this is only book 2, though, I'm really afraid she might make the wrong choice... :(
Patrick Mosbacker
52. Patillian
OK, the new cover reveal definitely points towards Dalinar being a Bondsmith. The last page of the Ars Arcanum indicates that the Full Lashing is the bonding power, while the drawing things in and gravity powers are the gravitation surge. So Dalinar will be able to stick rocks to a cliff like Kaladin, but have some other power too.

Does this mean all honorspren are similar to windspren? Are many of the windspren in the books amnesiac honorspren? Does the concentration of battle at the Shattered Plains attract them? Are many honorable soldiers being followed around while they gain sentience?
LexieGirl
53. STBLST
@49 and 50, The Eshonai interlude that can be found in confirms that Parshendi can bond to spren, and that's how they change forms. It also provides evidence that Eshonai is, indeed, the Explorer who wistfully recalls explorations of the shattered plains to which they are now confined and the humans she met, including Gavilar and Dalinar. Of course, the cited excerpt is merely an early draft subject to change in the final version.
Patrick Mosbacker
54. Patillian
Thanks @53. I had read at least part of that interlude, and I remember the discussion of the different formas, especially the ominous reference to the blank or slave form that pretty obviously referred to the parshmen servants. But I totally do not remember the spren involvement w/ changing forms. I hope I read a shorter one, but it's probably my brain. =) It makes sense that they have seen surgebinding before because they recognize Kaladin as something specific and special. However, what makes them so either scared or respectful, that they sometimes won't attack him and sometimes will?

Can anyone repost the link to the transcripts of all the Brandon readings? I went to 17th Shard again, and while it's a wonderful rabbit hole to just enjoy awesome theories and discussions, I could not manage to track down the transcribed readings I know I have seen before via link.
Barry T
59. blindillusion
HI Tek, Hi Wetlander!!!...
***waves***

Blink™

....where'd he go...
Alice Arneson
60. Wetlandernw
blindillusion - ::waves back:: Hey there! Been missing you around here. Good to see you!
Patrick Mosbacker
61. Patillian
Thanks Zen! I've bookmarked it now. I think I may have started this one and then not finished for some reason...because the ending seemed like new material while I know I had read the beginning.

Anyway, @53, I didn't catch the confirmation about spren being responsible for the changes in form. They change form and the method seems likely to have to do with highstorms...they've lost much of their old wisdom as well...I din't see any reference to spren.

But man is there foreshadowing to what Jasnah's fears and Navani's note about the spies among their slaves seem to indicate--a massive parshmen uprising.
Suad Isaq
62. Buttersky
Well, hello. I'm kind of new here..wait not kind of I AM new here and this is my first post :P I've become a Sanderson stalker and my new job led me here.
I wasn't excatly planning on posting anything since I love reading your discussions, but I was a little bit confused by one of your comments about Eshonai. Isn't the reason she's called the Explorer because she wanted to be one instead of being the remaining leader of the Parshendi?? I don't think it's another unknown Order. More likely that Eshonai desires to see more of the world and thinks of Exploring as her Calling.

Oh, and since I'm posting I just wanted to say: Wetlander, you're one helluva tease...
Deana Whitney
63. Braid_Tug
@ 62, Hello & Welcome!

If you follow the link that @58, ZenB posted and read the Eshonai interlude, you will see some of why people are calling her the Explorer. You will also have massive Spoiler info! I’m glad I read it, but in a way it takes away some of the “OHHH, what’s going to happen?!” It becomes a “Oh, when is that shoe going to drop?” Early I hope, otherwise I’ll be spending part of my reading time thinking “When will Eshonai come up?” Up to you on how you want to read the book.
Come join us on the Re-read, if you have not already checked in.

I now believe the missing chapter 7 is either a follow up on the crash Shallan heard, or it’s a Szeth chapter.

EDIT: Oh goody! I got spot 63, a personal "happy" for me, even if it is not a Hunny. (36 also makes me happy.)
Alice Arneson
64. Wetlandernw
Buttersky @62 - Let me add my welcome! Glad to have you here, and hope you stick around for lots of discussion. But me? A tease?
.
.
.
Why, thank you. ;)

Oh, and as for your excellent questions/suggestions... I'd love to comment, but I can't. Yet. In six weeks, we'll have so much to discuss!
David Foster
65. ZenBossanova
@62 Buttersky
I agree it is not definitive, especially since Assassin (Szeth) was also highlighted and I am reasonably certain that that is not an order of the Radiants.

Still, I think it is highly suggestive and I want to see what Brandon has in mind for the Parshendi. I suspect neither Voidbringer nor misunderstood oppressed slaves is the best way to understand them. The truth will be more subtle and interesting.
Sam Mickel
66. Samadai
hmmm, I just thought of something that probably has been discussed before, but I have missed. When Gavilar tells Szeth to tell his brother to know "the most important words a man can know". I wonder if this is one of the ideals of one of the orders of Radiants, perhaps the order Gavilar could have been part of it
David Foster
67. ZenBossanova
By the way, speaking of storms, this might be of passing interest to this rarified literary community.
Scott Jones
68. Skavoovee
@66 It was said that "the most important words a man can know" are a quote from the book Dalinar becomes obsessed with, The Way of Kings. You might be right about this, as I believe it was mentioned that Gavilar had become more secretive of late, but I don't think it's an ideal.
LexieGirl
69. MateiT
@68 i don't think it's "an" ideal, but the first ideal, common to all KR :)
i believe Syl even calls them that at one point.
Suad Isaq
70. Buttersky
Braid_Tug, thanks for welcoming me. I've actually read all the excerpts AND read through some ALL your comments. So I'm not new there :) I've read Eshonais Interlude though it was sometime ago, which was why I was confused.

Wetlander, yeah six weeks. Doesn't sound that long if you're patient...which I'm not. And I'll try and stay though i like to lurk around.

Zen(is it all right if I call you that?) I agree with you. Brandson is good with leading us on and then dropping the bomb. But have you thought that they maybe ARE the Voidbringers. Someone here has to be, right?

"The Explorer, straddling the fates of two peoples, forced to choose between slow death and a terrible betrayal of all she believes."

The slow death is of cource the Alethi people killing them off, I think we all understood that in her Interlude. But the "terrible betrayel"? She believes to be free BUT if she does this terrible betrayel...maybe they won't be free anymore...they'll be Odiums slaves.

Something else that I've been thinking about. The Parshendi are trying to attract creationsprens, for some reason they want the creationspren. And if I remember correctly, Eshonai had some thoughts about the place they were hiding in. She said something about how the Alethi didn't know about the place they were fighting on? Jesus, I suck at this BUT anyways what i thought was maybe they know were Urithuru is. And since Shallan attracts ALOT of the creationspren...well? Maybe they can exchange or something? Show me the way to the "Lost" city and I'll give you hundreds of creationspren?

My english sucks so if you see anything wrong...just think of me as some dumbass and ignore it :P
Maiane Bakroeva
71. Isilel
Buttersky @70:

But have you thought that they maybe ARE the Voidbringers. Someone here has to be, right?

Yes, but information from the flaps of WoR, which can be seen on 17th Shard, IIRC, offers other tantalizing possibilities. Like that the same things that open prospective Radiants for their spren bond _also_ opens them for outside tempering. Which may or may not be true, but it finally provides a basis for the belief that return of the Radiants would cause a Desolation, which seemed wholly irrational until now.

Oh, and another thing. Could it be that Navani's epigraphs misunderstood what happened with Parshendi and Parshmen? Because I suspect that their plan is to get Parshmen to bond with the spren and adopt a more evolved form.
Do Parshendi in their "dull" form look sufficiently like Parshmen to pass for them? Or are they harvesting the spren around human camps, in preparation to driving the Parshmen slaves out into the storm, somehow, so that they can bond these spren? Creation spren, particularly, with which Parshendi have so much trouble according to the Eshonai interlude.
David Foster
72. ZenBossanova
@71 Isilel - Are Radiants causing the Desolation, or do they just precede it? It sounds like we have planet-wide issues with confusing causation and correlation.

@70 Buttersky - I expect Voidbringers will be Parshendi, but I am not convinced all Parshendi must be Voidbringers. In any case, we know so little about them, that we really need to read WoR to argue this with any confidence.

And yes, call me Zen. I am not picky about what I am called.
Tricia Irish
73. Tektonica
Hi Blindillusion!! Nice to see you back here! Join in! **waves**
LexieGirl
74. STBLST
@61, sorry about the delay in responding. If you read the Eshonai interlude carefully, you will note several references to the goal of spren creation/attraction as a means of saving the Parshendi from their current predicament. The last such reference (the 2nd paragraph relating to Eshonai's sister, Venley) mentions the student scholars who knew the appropriate song but didn't bond with the appropriate spren. Early in the interlude mention is made that there were originally 100 Parshendi forms, but now only 5 (not counting the Parshmen who had no distinct form and no music). Apparently, there had been a scholar form which could not now be properly invoked since the associated spren were not known.

The Parshendi are portayed as largely behaving by instinct, with great effort needed to overcome the instinct driven behavior of the various forms. It is not a large leap, then, to assume that the 'god's, whose return they fear will control their behavior. Any bets that Venley's discovery of the Storm form will knowingly or not lead to the feared Voidbringers, i.e., their abandoned 'gods'?
Lord Carfax
75. Carfax
After WOT and the original Malazan set, never did i believe i'd be glued to another fantasy series that's supposed to stretch over so many books again. Drats.
@On the Voidbringers issue:
I still expected it to have a few twists after the Jasnah's discovery but Eshonai interlude just narrowed so many things down.
The voidbringers might be a Parshendi form, similar to the the "slave form" which they might not be able to do much about. Agreed, but the statement about the abandoned gods seem to point at them being responsible for the transformation into that form. Why else prevent it?

So... who are the abandoned gods? Arrivals of Heralds to train the KR used to preceede each Desolation.. and since there's some theory flying somewhere about the Parshendi having their own KR order or at least being included in one of the orders, Could the Parshendi be associating the arrival of the Heralds with their transformation into the voidbringer form and blaming it as the cause?
Dixon Davis
76. KadesSwordElanor
Carfax @ 75

I am kinda thinking along those same lines, regarding Parshendi/Parshmen. Maybe they are “contractually obligated,” through no fault of the current crop of Parshendi/Parshmen, to follow the lead of/or become Voidbringers. But some(Shen) may decide/figure out a way to break the contract. Maybe something the gemhearts offer is a way out. This is predominantly speculation with little to no context clues, I realize.

Also, if Voidbringers end up being the antithesis of KR, maybe Sadeas could = Chief Voidbringer.
I hate Sadeas.

Lastly, can’t help but wondering if Eshonai lamenting the lack of artfulness of her people in her interlude somehow correlates to interlude 7 in WOK. Don’t know why yet, but plan to do some digging.
John Dickson
77. Caed
“Why?” Jasnah demanded, stalking forward. “He fought for you! He kept the predators at bay! My father wanted peace, you monsters! Why would you betray us now, of all times?”

Gangnah drew her lips to a line. The song of her voice changed. She seemed almost like a mother, explaining something very difficult to a small child. “Because your father was about to do something very dangerous.” From - To Question - Prologue to The Words of Radiance

What was Gavilar about to do?

Lets compare Gavilar and Dalinar - Everyone compares Dalinar to his brother especially as he was toward the end of his life. I think if you want to see what Gavilar was like, look at his surviving brother.

“You sound like him, you know,” Elhokar said, turning back to look eastward again. “Near the end. When he began to act erratically.”
“Surely I’m not so bad as that.”
“Perhaps. But this is much like how he was. Talking about an end to war, fascinated by the Lost Radiant, insisting everyone follow the Codes…” The Way of Kings Pg. 290

-Follower of the Codes.
-Great importance put on the ancient text of The Way of Kings.
-Honor bound. (Duel meaning here intended)
-Gave up Shards in the end
-For Gavilar - "Tearim, captain of the King’s Guard, loomed behind them. He wore Gavilar’s Shardplate; the king himself had stopped wearing it of late, preferring to entrust it to Tearim, who was known as one of the world’s great duelists. Instead, Gavilar wore robes of a majestic, classical style." To Question WoR
I know Gavilar fought Szeth in his plate but you can see a follower of the codes in this action, particularly -
"Leadership: The officer will require no action of his soldiers that he would not be willing to perform himself." The Way of Kings Pg. 244
I suspect Gavilar was not willing to let a subordinate duel such an opponent with the unknown ability such as Szeth. Despite the mentioning of Tearim's skill in duelling.

-For Dalinar - We all know the events at the end of the novel The Way of Kings. Giving the Shardsword to Sadaes, and Shardplate to Renarin, though technically we have not seen if this has been done. Though Dalinar is good at keeping his word.

So what was Gavilar about to do that made the the Parshendi so nervous. If Jasanah's theory is correct, what made the Voidbringers so nervous?

He was going to bring back the Knights Radiants.

Questions:
What was the crystalline sphere that Gavilar gave Szeth? Did it have something to do with his plans?
Did Gavilar bond with a Spren?
Did Gavilar have a plan on how to bring back the Knights Radiant?
Did Gavilar's desire to unite the Alethi begin with visions like with Dalinar?
James Briggs
78. traveler
67 ZenBossanova ,I wonder if michael W. got the background from seeing pictures like this. WAY COOLThanks.
I still think that the oaths the Radiants will take are Dalinars answer to the question that his brother left him, Brother , find the most important words a man can say.
Will Shallon learn to read the fractals that her criptic spren constantly changes to, and will she also learn how to get other spren to occupy objects like her spren did when the criptic occupied the drawing of it's self.
With this in mind will Navani learn how to understand fabrials and start creating other types of power infused objects that spren can occupy? With Jasana and Shallon assisting her what are the possabilitys ?
Wow my brain is on overloadand I cant wait to be able to find more answers.
Cory S.
80. Hungry_For_Hands
@79 Interesting indeed.

This may have been theorized previous on the 17th shard or somewhere. But my first thought when getting confirmation that Honorblades grant surgebinding is that, I wonder if each of the 10 Honorblades grants the powers from a different Order. For example, Szeth has the "windrunner" Honorblade. Do the Shin control them all?

So many questions.
Reid cashman
82. hellzie
Battlestances-

I pray they aren't differentiated by useless Jedi acrobatics.
LexieGirl
83. Luke Spence
So, after reading all the excerpts in one sitting, I can only say one thing...

WHY DID I DO THAT?!?!

As if waiting for the next book wasn't bad enough, I had to go and reignite the flames of my desire for March 4th to get here quicker.
Erina Her
84. tuary
Curious...

If the Parshendi really hired Szeth to kill King Gavilar.... were they at all concern that he can use surgebinding?
LexieGirl
85. Porphyrogenitus
I've been wondering if perhaps the excerpts have sufficient clues about the relationship between cryptics and honorspren for us to make some reliable guesses.

1 - The two are opposed to one another politically.

2 - The cryptics appear to have overturned their prior stance regarding bonds, and have since sent agent spren to make initial contact and restart the bonding process.

3 - Syl crossed over against orders, and seems to have done so in a similar time frame to the beginning of the non-honorspren crossings.

The above suggests to me that the honorspren in particular were most injured by the Recreance, and are still holding a grudge, to the point where they are openly breaking with the cryptics. Syl saw what the cryptics and their allies were doing and, against the wishes of her fellow honorspren, crossed over as well.

Thus there are likely to be very few Windrunners, at least to begin with, and relatively more of the other orders (likely to be the case anyway since honorspren are apparently more discerning, but amplified drastically since honorspren in particular are refusing to sanction bonding, while the other spren are following the cryptics' lead and crossing over).
LexieGirl
86. Jake Ryan
The Parshendi always took the blame for Gavilar's death, but I always got the sense that someone else had had him killed. Also in the prologue of WOR, Jasnah overhears this from two men who were ambassadors of the west “I don’t like this. What we’ve done was wrong. That creature carries my lord’s own Blade. We shouldn’t have let him keep it. He—”
They seem to be the true perpetrators and must have some connection with the Heralds, since it seems likely that Szeth has an honorblade and that they are reffering to Szeth's Blade here. Unfortunately, beyond that I have no idea how this all fits in together.
LexieGirl
87. Teaweasel
This whole bi-partisan spren development reminds me of Dragonlance. The tales of Krynn, by Margret Weis & Tracy Hickman(in particular.)

Where the chromatic (evil) dragons come back to the world of mortals, and the metallic (good) dragons don't. And following the same vein, a small handful of shape-changing metallics cross-over against their patron-god's wishes and empower the mortals, thus usher'ing the conflict to a head, forcing their patron God's hand and releasing the floodgates on the rest of their reserved brethren.

I understand, it's the same vein, if not the same mineral....all things don't coincide...but in terms of fantasy archetypes, and story arcs, it just feels comfortable and right.

Don't get me wrong, not slighting Sanderson for using (possible) formulaic story vehicles, if there was an issue with that... David Eddings wouldn't have a career. But to me, I like it, because it feels...well..right. And even if it may be recycled, there's a reason why I slather jelly against my peanut butter. Because dude, its freaking awesome.
LexieGirl
88. Bael
This may have been considered before, but I haven't found it yet.
In the prologue, Jasnah comes across the two men talking and one says, "That creature carries my lord’s own Blade. We shouldn’t have let him keep it." It may very well be that "that creature" refers to Szeth, but with the Parshendi present, we can't discount the possibility that the descriptor "Creature" may instead refer to them. The Shin are different in appearance, but not different enough to warrant the "creature" label. Further, Szeth isn't walking around with his Shardblade in his hands, so how did they see the Blade anyway? Can they see into Shadesmar (I think) where the blades are stored until summoned? Eshonai is at the feast, she has a full set of Shards, but no one noticed or commented on that, (assuming she possesed them at the treaty feast).

The more I think on it, the more puzzled I am as to how these two "saw" the blade in question.

BTW, Sooooo looking forward to Tuesday's news. Maybe an early e-book release??

Bael
LexieGirl
89. Glotof
A better question is this --
How did the Parshendi know about Szeth's abilities at all? If his own mistress, an accomplished, shard-carrying assassin didn't know, what would've tipped them off?
Similiarly, Lift and the other interludes make it seem like Darkness isn't really a person anymore, and he (it?) certainly seems to be the guy from Jasnah's prologue. Are there other creatures like him out there?
David Foster
90. ZenBossanova
We think (and we could be wrong) that Darkness is one of the old Heralds, probably Jezrien, since one of his focuses was Justice. Except this is kind of a corrupted, screwed up Justice.

In which case, we may have a lot of screwed up Heralds out there. I bet, when we finally do see Taln next to the Heralds that stayed behind, he will be the relatively undamaged, and un-screwed up, one.
Anneke van Staden
91. QueenofDreams
Zen, most people I've seen speculating have said that Darkness is Nalan. I'm confused now. What was Nalan's focus?
Nadine L.
92. travyl
Nalan's divine attribute is just / confident
Jezriens is Protecting / Leading.

I think Zen misspoke, it does happen, I heard ;)
David Foster
93. ZenBossanova
We should check on that, though likely, I was just misremembering....
yes, just checked on it. Nalan was "Just and Confident" and Jezrien was "Protecting and Leading". So, most likely, it was Nalan.
Anneke van Staden
94. QueenofDreams
It would seem that Jezrien's corresponding order of KR was the Windrunners then (judging by Kaladin's flair for leadership and determination to protect others) Taln's order is presumably the Bondsmiths. I'm guessing that Shalash corresponds to the Lightweavers, but that's based purely on Shallan's flair for art. I wonder which herald Jasnah 'belongs' to? Could someone post a list (or a link) of which herald went with which attributes?
Alice Arneson
95. Wetlandernw
No, we already know that Taln's order is the Stonewards. (Not that I can remember all the ways we actually know that, but we do.) We don't know yet where the Bondsmiths might fit in. Brandon has confirmed that the Lightweavers (and yes, Shallan) are associated with Shalash.
Nadine L.
96. travyl
The Herald's attributes (if you correspond them to the associated number) is listed in the ARS Arcanum, and I haven't found a good quality image on the web on such a short notice.



And you should really check this out, about the Herald, their Radiant Order and the surges... (edit: the endsheet was labeled there, but it's not there anymore for me, it seems they restricted access to the file, sad.)
Anneke van Staden
97. QueenofDreams
Wet, of course Taln is Stonewards! Hmm, my memory must be going, as I definitely knew that. Thanks for the reminder, and confirmation on Shalash. Thanks for the chart Travyl. Again, I'd forgotten that's actually in the book. I'm on a roll :/
Anneke van Staden
98. QueenofDreams
Ooh, so Dalinar is in order number 10 (bondsmiths) and that corresponds to Ishar, with attributes of Pious/Guiding. That really does fit for him as a character. Creative/honest for lightweavers, and Learned/giving for Jasnahs order. Loving/healing for Lift, and learned/giving for Ym. Again those are really good fits for the character. Wow, Brandon just blows me away. The attention to detail and the way he's made sure that each order really matches the character as they're written.
Nadine L.
99. travyl
Actually I believe that it isn't confirmed that Dalinar is a Bondsmith (but I strongly believe so, because of the relased-back-cover text), and it isn't confirmed to what Herald the Bondsmith do belong, but Kalak with resolute / builder makes far more sense than Ishar IMO.
(see my comment @50).
Nadine L.
100. travyl
I waited more than a day, so this can hardly count as double-posting to grab (yet again) the 10 x 10 (=100 th) post, right?

Hm, I wish I had to say something really insightful, but I don't sorry.
LexieGirl
101. Falconite
Loving the previews, can't wait for the book. A couple of thoughts people haven't posted yet (that I have seen anyway - apologies if someone has posted the below):

When the Almighty tells Dalinar to "Unite them", Dalinar thinks he means the Alethi, others think he means the Radiants. What if it means reuniting people with the spren? Or reuniting the Cryptics and the Honor spren? The Spren distrust humans since the day of recreance (it's alluded to in the previews quite heavily) and Syl says herself that she is the only honour spren that's come, but other types of spren are trying to recreate the nahel bonds (i.e. Jasnah's, Shallan's etc).

This leads me to something interesting - there's 62 (or maybe it's 60 days now since the latest preview) and there are a couple of lines saying "is it enough time". When Syl (and I assume Pattern and Ivory) came into Roshar - they were mindless without the bond. Jasnah herself said their were cities of them, and they have intelligence and leaders. What if they have "blocked" sentient spren from going to Roshar - so if a spren goes they are mindless? But if that was somehow relaxed - Spren who can remember would be allowed to cross, therefore allowing faster training/growing of the orders (because one way or another the KR will be refounded it seems)... I know someone has mentioned there must be a faster way to do it, and I am wondering if the Spren that are still in the cognitive realm are the key?

Not sure - just a couple of thoughts that have popped into my head.
David Foster
102. ZenBossanova
I definitely agree that the "unite them" command is more open ended than Dalinar is treating it.

What has me puzzled, is if the Stormfather is forbidding spren from coming, why is he talking to Kaladin?
LexieGirl
103. Stormblessed
@102 Because my friend, Odium reigns.

I wonder if the not only are the spren distrustful of humans but also Odium keeps an eye over the Stormfather to stop the KR from forming again. Idk just speculation but I do think Odium has agents everywhere, including the cognative realm.
Anneke van Staden
104. QueenofDreams
@102 I saw that as a warning. The Stormfather found Kaladin riding the storms and warned him off.
Isaac Zlochower
105. STBLST
I don't have WOK in front of me, but I would venture that the 'stormface' whom Kaladin saw when left to hang in the high-storm is a powerful spren rather than either the herald, Jezrien, or the 'almighty' Honor (Tanavast). The vision that Kaladin had later as a storm 'rider' (Windrunner) was that of Tanavast. The people of Roshar had come to confuse the 'stormfather' spren with Jezrien or Tanavast. Heralds are not deities, just potentially immortal. On the other hand, Tanavast had been 'broken' by Odium, and would, presumably, not be able to effect the physical world such as in forming high-storms. Similarly, the Nightwatcher is another powerful spren rather than Cultivation.
amit saha
106. amit98542
Can anyone tell me why Honor is being often referred as Tanavast (his owner), but Rayse is never mentioned alongside Odium(I m almost sure of this fact, but this is my first post).
Birgit
107. birgit
If the face in the storm is a powerful spren it makes sense that it has authority over Syl and she disobeyed it when she bonded with Kaladin. If it was a Herald why should he have authority over Syl?
Alice Arneson
108. Wetlandernw
amit98542 @106 - I don't think there's a particular reason other than habit, unless it's the fact that there's Honor, the Shard, and honor, the general concept. We talk about honor a lot, but we rarely talk about odium as a concept. Sometimes, perhaps, it's easier to refer to Tanavast to denote the person/Shard rather than trying to distinguish between Honor and honor. We don't have that problem with Odium, so we don't bother to talk much about Rayse. That's my best guess, anyway.
LexieGirl
109. Pendragon
I do not think this has been brought up yet but have any of you wondered why a Parshendi, Shen, was put on the Bridge Crew since they are such perfect Docile Slaves how does a Parshman get in trouble and delegated to Bridge Duty? No one has asked anything about Shen or his past.
David Foster
110. ZenBossanova
And will fighting with Bridge 4, turn him into warform?
LexieGirl
111. er2014
Or turn him into a humanform!
Dixon Davis
112. KadesSwordElanor
By reading WOK & WOR posts I have inadvertently discovered Sazed fuses(?) Preservation & Ruin to become Harmony.

The reasons spoilers don’t bother me; the tears currently streaming down my face as Vin confides in Kelsier about her past and fears, after she is scorned by first love, holds her own against 2 Mistborns, and blows up at the crew because “they are really not Skaa”. As with the KR, with a little tweak, “Journey as important as Destination.” Spoilers don’t necessarily spoil a book if the journey is as good as the destination. Can’t wait to finish Mistborn. Man card; officially revoked.
Deana Whitney
113. Braid_Tug
@112: Crying does not revoke a man card.
Edit: @114: Nope, not even for crying over a Fictional person like Vin, who is great. Crying over Bella in Twilight, will get some raised eyebrows however. ;-)

Just realized, March 4th is Mardi Gras!
Have some King Cake with your book everyone. :-)
LexieGirl
114. Bael
@113: March 4th is also a military command... March Forth!

I know it's a terrible pun, but I couldn't resist. I also wondered if BWS might have had the same thought

Bael
Dixon Davis
115. KadesSwordElanor
Thanks Braid_Tug

I know, but I thought that losing it over a fictional, teenage girl’s insecurities might. Granted, Vin has arguably seen more trauma than some war heroes with PTSD. In a fictional universe, of course.
Jennifer B
116. JennB
@98
Who is Ym?

@101
Who is Ivory?

I think I may have missed an excerpt where these two characters were introduced. Can someone please direct me to it? Thanks.
Jennifer B
117. JennB
Never mind, I found the Ym interlude on the coppermind (Yay! Something new to read tonight.) and I had forgotten Jasnah's Spren was Ivory.
Peter Ahlstrom
118. PeterAhlstrom
The Ym transcription is from an incomplete reading of an early draft, so don't skip that interlude when you get the book. :)
Jennifer B
119. JennB
I don't think I will be skipping anything when I finally get my hands on that book! Thanks though.
LexieGirl
120. radrad
@109 Shen is a puzzle. He was given to Bridge 4 as an "experiment", though judging by Sadeas' attitude, this was not something he initiated. So who then? It's a big coincidence that Shen is placed in the crew of an incipient KR, isn't it? Also, we know that Parshendi have run away from their own gods. Shen and the "docile" parshmen have not. We also know from Syl that there are dangerous spren with red eyes. Red eyed spren also feature in one of Dallinar's visions. It's not hard to imagine that why so many of us think that Shen is there to spy on Kaladin.
LexieGirl
121. radrad
Sorry, I also meant to say that from WoK it seems pretty certain that Parshmen are the Voidbringers, the enemies of men. Parshendi (the ones on the shattered plains) on the other hand may not be so because they rejected their gods and escaped. The comment about red eyed spren is to highlight the fact that there are "evil" seen for parshmen to bond with.
Jon _
122. Chasmfriend
What does a chasmfiend turn into after it pupates? Are there Mothra sized butterflies on Roshar? If so, where do they go when it rains?
(these are the questions that keep me up at night)

EDIT: My brother suggested that maybe they're like Pokemon, and a Chasmfiend becomes a Chasmfriend! I liked that enough I made it my new handle.
LexieGirl
123. Jasuni
@120 The experiment was likely initiated by Brightness Hashal. Gaz gave an explanation in chapter 46 when Shen joined bridge 4.
LexieGirl
124. WoRAddict
Ok I was just reading through WoK's again last night and I found this paragraph.
"Yes," Elhokar replied. "And yet they are savages, and easily manipulated. It would be a perfect distraction, pinning the blame on a group of parshmen. We go to war for years and years, never noticing the real villains, working quietly in my own camp. They watch me. always. Waiting. I see their faces in mirrors. Symbols, twisted, inhuman..."
Is it just me or does this sound like a perfect description of Shallans spren? Are we possibly seeing another surgebinder here who thinks his powers are actually assassins and everyone else thnks is paranoia? And if he is a surgebinder is he the same type as Shallan or an overlap? What do you guys think?
LexieGirl
125. WoRAddict
Oh nevermind I should have read through the whole thread first I see other people thought of this first! Don't know how to delete that comment though....
Anneke van Staden
126. QueenofDreams
@124 I think each order of KR would have a distinct spren. So as far as I see it, all lightweavers would bond cryptics, all windrunners would bond honorspren etc. So I think Elhokar is a lightweaver in the making, like Shallan.
Erica Collier
127. scifibard
Ok, question. I know there have been indications of thee Shards on Roshar (in the larger sense, not the shardblade sense) originally. We know that Odium has visited other worlds and Splintered other Shards in other places, as well as Splintering Honor. With only WoK, I'd wondered if Odium was an outside force attacking the Shards/gods of Roshar--if so, that could indicate a third original Shard beyond Honor and Cultivation. However, several of the chapters of WoR we've seen now have begun breaking things (like types of spren) into those to do with human thoughts/ideals (like Honor), those tied to nature (Cultivation), and those that are voidish. That sure sounds like Void is tied directly to Odium who was therefore there all along. Anyone know if we have any further information on this? Void and Hate/Odium don't seem like the same thing to me, but a lot of the Shard concepts are applied really broadly.

Also, anyone else think that the purelakers' Nu Ralik refers to Honor and his jealous and rather evil younger brother Vun Makak refers to Odium? The purelakers have a few "superstitions" they believe will tell the future in various ways; they also give lip serive to worshiping Vun Makak; telling the future is a voidish power (though I think we've been told by Honor that Cultivation had some ability there too). So perhaps for all that they secretly worship Nu Ralik, they get some small voidish abilities from their outward lip service to Vun Makak? (If it's not all baseless superstition, but in a Cosmere with lots of different magics, isn't it cooler if the fish that will tell you when your friends will visit is real?)
LexieGirl
128. Boardgirl
I know the topic of why Syl doesn't like shardblades has come up before, but I have an idea that I haven't seen posted yet.

I don't think that Syl dislikes shardblades because they are swords. I think it's an aversion to how they are used.

My guess is that shardblades and plate would have only been granted to Knight Radiants once they completed their training. Meaning that when they received/accepted them, that it was also accepting the responsibility that they were to be used only for protecting humanity.

The armour would have glowed only for those with Nahel bonds that allow the wearer to use stormlight.

I think that Kaladin will accept armour and sword, once he has said all the ideals and trained his powers.
Kerly Luige
129. Celebrinnen
Risking speaking up again without noticing some previous posts, is it reasoned to assume now that it really is Adolin that is referred to as the Bondsmith on the cover, and not Dalinar? Quoting Carl's review, "Dalinar in particular is a much less frequent viewpoint character, with Adolin taking up much of his page-time."

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