Mon
May 20 2013 10:15am
Game of Thrones Season 3, Ep. 8: “Second Sons”

Game of Thrones Season 3 Episode 8 Second Sons

Why, hello, Daario.

“Second Sons” is fine for a title, but it doesn’t leave much room for the women of Game of Thrones, many of whom also had a difficult time performing their duties this week. So much duty this week. And boobs. And leeches and lechers.

Gendry bled, Tyrion wed, Davos read, and... Samwell got to not be a big fat stupid for about five minutes.

Note: episode reviews are largely spoiler-free for the books, but spoilers are fair game in the comments. Be warned.

If anything’s a long-running theme on Game of Thrones, it’s duty—to family, to realm, to honor, to oneself. Duty brought down Ned Stark. His son Robb struggles with it. Tyrion chafes at the constant reminder of it. And Sansa bears the weight of duty on her young shoulders like the walking wounded, an emptiness in her eyes, submerging her real feelings deep inside where no one can hurt them.

How long can we stand to watch a fourteen-year-old girl constantly have her hopes and dreams ground down to nothing? No brave knight—or spymaster—came to rescue her from her forced marriage to Tyrion. And how would she escape on her own? She’s no Arya. Sansa had to go through with it. When that little shit Joffrey says he’ll have knights hold her down so he can rape her when her new husband passes out, Sansa has to take it. And what will her husband’s father do to her if she doesn’t get with child soon? Tywin’s threats weren’t directly lobbed at Sansa, but why do I get the feeling it’s way easier to openly blame the (daughter of a “traitor”) wife for infertility in this kingdom vs. a rich little lord.

The Gold Wedding (as it’s known in the books) was just as depressing as I pictured it. The doors of the sept closing behind Sansa as Joffrey walked her down the aisle sounded like the lid of a sarcophagus being slid into place. How apt.

Sansa undressing for Tyrion was probably the most profoundly sad scene on this show in some time.

Game of Thrones Season 3 Episode 8 Second Sons

But, on the bright side, she married Tyrion, not Joffrey. If you have to marry a Lannister, he’s probably the best bet. Kudos to Tyrion for not being a rapist pig like his nephew. Kudos to him for threatening to cut off Joffrey’s cock, even if it was a big lapse in judgment and a pretty empty threat. Little bastard sure knows how to ruin a wedding party, eh? Kudos to anyone who tells Joffrey to go fuck himself. I feel terrible for Tyrion in this, too. Forget annoying Shae and his ill-advised feelings for her. As an intelligent and pretty empathetic man, you just feel for him as he delicately, awkwardly, drunkenly navigates a bad situation.

“And so my watch begins.” ::passes out on a divan:: Best laugh-out-loud moment of the night.

Over in Dragonstone, a trueborn son, Stannis, seems to feel bad about sacrificing royal bastard (the nice, Jon Snow kind of bastard, not the evil Ramsay Bolton/Joffrey kind) Gendry. For thirty seconds. He’s got places to be, man, he can’t stop for Onion Knights and their messy consciences. How about the stink-eye Stannis gave Melisandre when he interrupted her mid-naked bloodletting ritual? I loved her description of her M.O. (“The lambs never saw the knife”) and I get why she had to make Gendry comfortable, but, damn, after Theon’s sexytimes-turned-emasculation scene last week... I started feeling queasy again.

So, watch out usurpers, you’ve made the Lord of Light’s shitlist. And Stannis had a point—Davos saw Mel’s shadow-baby. How can you doubt her god has real power? Watch out, Robb (boo), Joff (yay! hurry!) and Balon Greyjoy (him? really? Egg? Where are the other krakens this season?) So, can Gendry go home now? Yeah... probably not going to be so easy.

The actual Second Sons of the night were a company of two thousand sellswords outside of Yunkai. Things went down a little differently in the books, with Dany talking to two different groups of swords for hire, telling each one “But I am a young girl, new to the ways of war” as she plotted against them. But we’re on TV-time here and need to keep moving forward.

Another big change from the books? Daario looks like this:

Game of Thrones Season 3 Episode 8 Second SonsCan you imagine Dany—or anyone—getting seduced by a blue and gold-bearded clown with naked lady hilts and gold teeth and stupid yellow jester clothes? Not really. I haaaaaaaate book Daario and Dany’s desire for him. Not as much as Jorah’s going to haaaaaate him, but still. He’s a merc, he’s a creepy, leering, swaggering jerk. So of course someone as young as Dany might fall for his textbook Bad Boy vibe. But after Khal Drogo? This is the guy who gets you going? She should know better. She can do better.

This TV-Daario? Well, he’s got the swagger and the naked lady hilts, but he doesn’t make my skin crawl. He has a twisted kind of honor to him, loving beauty as he does. Wanting to serve beauty. And compared to his former boss, he’s at least not completely disgusting. So now Dany has two thousand more swords to fight against Yunkai. Dany’s really good at swelling her ranks. (Why does that sound so dirty?)

In much colder climes, Samwell and Gilly were not quite as cute as Jon Snow and Ygritte, but it seemed like a good start. Sam’s a little... awkward, shall we say? I liked their exchange about the importance of good names.

But... but... White Walker attack! Finally! That was awesome! I loved Sam finally growing a pair, remembering he had a dragonglass dagger, even if he didn’t know what it would do. Sam slayed a White Walker all by himself! And then it froze solid and broke in a million pieces. Great effects this whole season. And then there’s the ravens.

And then...Sam left his special magical dagger in the snow as he ran away with Gilly. Dammit, Samwell!

Other points of interest and Quote of the Week nominees:

  • Not much really happening with Arya and the Hound although she looks like an adorable little gnat buzzing around a giant black hound when she threatens Sandor’s life. Arya, like Sansa, isn’t in such terrible company. Sandor may sell her back to Robb, but at least he’ll protect her on the road and—do I really have to give him props for not raping and killing a nine-year-old? Jeez, this show. Queasiness rising again. You’d also think Arya would ask more about her sister. I know they’re not close, but Sansa’s her family. You think she’d be dying for some news from King’s Landing.
  • “If you ever call me sister again I’ll have you strangled in your sleep.”—Cersei being Cersei. A nice, chilling story about how your daddy wipes out all the men, women, and children from a house that openly rebels against him is the perfect cocktail party gossip, no? That lesson on the origins of that song—the only song Tywin Lannister likes—becomes very important next week, when the episode title is “The Rains of Castamere.” You know Margaery didn’t miss the jab at houses “not happy to be on the second rung of the ladder.” But she—and her house—don’t seem the type to be happy looking up from beneath the heel of the Lannisters.
  • I feel bad for Sansa, but she could at least have extended Tyrion some courtesy when Joffrey took his stepping stool away. (As a short person myself, fuck you, Joffrey! What a dick move.) That crowd? They’re laughing at your husband now. Have a little empathy.
  • “But your brother will become your father-in-law. That much is not in dispute.” Ha! Olenna rules.
  • “I saw a great battle in the snow in the flames.”—Stannis. Making a note of that.
  • I was probably the only person who recognized the actor playing Prendahl na Ghezn from Mira Nair’s gorgeous Kama Sutra. But he was quite the looker back then. (Maybe you Anglophiles recognize Ramon Tikaram from the way more popular EastEnders?) Nice guest spot.
  • “Enog..enog...enough!” Hooray! Hooked On Phonics worked for Davos!
  • Missandei geeking out over High Valyrian.
  • “We had philosophical differences.”—Daario, before gifting Dany with his former associates’ heads
  • “I suppose there’s rather a philosophical difference between a wink and a blink.”—Samwell. I think Daario’s example is a little more extreme. But nice little echoing of the statement.

Next week: No new episode due to Memorial Day. Maybe watch all the new episodes of Arrested Development. Or get some sunshine. But come back the evening of 6/2 at 10:01 PM EST for a special episode review where we can discuss ALL THE FEELS.)

Game of Thrones Season 3 Episode 8 Second Sons

Game of Thrones airs Sundays at 9 PM E/PT on HBO.


Theresa DeLucci is a regular contributor to Tor.com, covering True Blood, Game of Thrones, and gaming news. Follow her on Twitter @tdelucci

47 comments
DarthRachel
1. DarthRachel


it's OK, we fixed him!
Elizabeth Doolin
2. mochabean
I was dreading the purple/blue/yellow/whatever beard and motley, so I've got no problem with the new Fabio, I mean Daario.

The Gold wedding was excruciating to watch, very well done.

I also liked the little non-exchange between Loras and Cersei.
Chris Nelly
3. Aeryl
I finally got where they are going with Shae this episode, it's not just Tyrion straying that's got her upset, it's the WITH Sansa. Probably over her own good sense, she's cares quite a bit for Sansa(flash back to her threatening that other hand maid when Sansa started her menses). The relief on her face when she learned the man she loved didn't brutalize the 14 year old girl she cares about, it finally made sense. *NROOM*

I think Daario deliberately looks like a brunette tanned Viserys. I like how they've characterized him, he is nothing like his book counterpart.

I like how they are setting up the leech thing, it's made explicit here that she's done it in an attempt to prove to Davos that a king's blood has power, but it's very open ended whether she chose this because her flames have told her they are going to die already or because she believes her magic will cause it to happen.

I liked that Tywin stood up for Tyrion in this one particular spot, you know it's because he agrees with Tyrion that Joff is being a shit.

I don't think I like that they are making Cersei as prickly as they are right now. I mean with Loras, sure, but flat out threatening Margaery is a bit too much, at least at the moment.
DarthRachel
4. sofrina
tywin stands up for tyrion so joffrey doesn't have him executed on the spot. kill him before he consummates the marriage and they lose the north via sansa. not to mention the notorious stain that would leave on joffrey's kingship. and why should sansa bend? it was the one act of rebellion she offered in all of this that was being done to her. i was surprised that she kneeled in the show. that one refusal was kind of delicious. this girl keeps herself together by telling herself that she is her mother's daughter and a stark of the north. good for her. (still grumbling about the lack of her maiden's cloak.)

now that you mention it, td, i do recognize that guy from "kama sutra: a tale of love." the sculptor, right? that other guy was foul. but this daario is quite a find. book daario might look like an ostentatious pirate, but i like that he is who he is so thoroughly. looking forward to seeing daenerys choose someone for once.

if sansa is 14, arya is 12 and bran is 10. clearly, none of the actors are as young as their characters. but just want to remind you that they are all aging together. arya didn't know her sister was still alive, did she? she barely escaped the purge herself. she didn't know she'd be held hostage. arya can't dare hope, after all she's been through, that sansa might still be alive even in the queen's clutches.

so now, even though they show young dothraki women off to the side, missandei is dany's herald, confidante and handmaiden? when does this girl sleep if she has to announce her, feed her, bathe her and be held hostage for her?

...leeches!...
DarthRachel
5. Fenric25
Another great episode of a great season. A few minor thoughts: Firstly, when was this wedding known as the Gold Wedding? I have never seen that name in the books nor on any fan site, this being the first place the name's been uttered that I've seen (I know of the infamous upcoming RW, of course, and of the almost-as-infamous and somewhat more satisfying Purple Wedding, but not Gold). Glad to see the Wedding portrayed so well, one of my favorite scenes from the books, and this scene also reminded everyone why Peter Dinklage is awesome (he's been rather underused, understated and low-key this season, understandably so and much like the books until the later half, he'll likely own much of next season) Also, ages are up for characters in the TV Series-in 1st season, Sansa was 13, Arya 11 and Bran 10, so here they're 14, 12 and 11 respectively (considering that Isaac Hempstead-Wright's voice is changing they may want to up the ages soon so that he's closer to 12 or 13, considering his actual age). Interestingly, Joffrey is 17 now despite being only a year older than Sansa in the books, guess he was born a year after Robert's Rebellion rather than 3 years. Also also, as to the character of Daario-I never liked book Daario's description except for the blue hair (why do they get rid of dyed hair in the show? Hope a certain character from the 5th book keeps his) and the character of Daario himself always felt strange and annoying. TV Daario is a far better character from one episode, though at least he has his distinctive gold women-hilted blades to mark him as the same character. Anyways, great episode, hate that we have to wait the next two weeks for the one we've all been dreading/waiting for (and which the preview has no hint at, which is good, too often trailers spoil the biggest moments)
Chris Nelly
6. Aeryl
To me, it didn't even look like Sansa was aware that Joff took the stool. Since they skipped the maiden cloak, I thought they'd skip the whole thing.

Sure, it also had to do with keeping Joff from flying off the handle, but its moments like that that show Tywin for what he really is. He agrees with Tyrion about Joffrey, but he can't allow himself to see the good things about Tyrion, because of his dwarfism. It's a truly terrible way for a father to act.
DarthRachel
7. mateo sf
In the books, I think I remember that in Westerose children aren't named until they are 2, probably because of high infant mortality rates. This is their name day and I think that this is how they calculate age. From their name day. So, the kids are all 2 years older than stated. Not that it matters. Just a nerdy point. If I remember correctly.
Chris Nelly
8. Aeryl
I don't think so, Lollys Stokeworth's child is born, and Bronn pisses everyone off by naming him after Tyrion. The wildlings held off naming, but the Westerosi don't, I do believe.
Theresa DeLucci
9. theresa_delucci
@1 I really nearly used that image for the post. Great 'shop.

@3 I like this take on Shae. Despite her knowing better, she does care for Sansa. She's as out of place at King's Landing as Shae, in a completely different way.

Was Tywin really sticking up for Tyrion because he hates Joff? Or because if Tyrion's executed, there goes his heir? I think in the heat of the moment, Tywin wasn't thinking about his heirs, more about calming the stuation all around so it wouldn't be the talk of the town. It's like Tywin hates Tyrion, but Joffrey's the real disappointment. Are we in agreement that no one else really wanted to spare Sansa the humiliation of getting publicly stripped by her ex-fiance. Again. Only Tyrion thought of that.

@4 - Why should Sansa bend? In the books she didn't and I get it's her one rebellious act. If they staged the wedding like that onscreen, I'd get it. But TV-Sansa is this sad little girl. I'd just think she would be more perceptive to another's humiliation, like on a human level. Maybe it's asking too much. Tyrion doesn't really deserve her ire, despite being a Lannister.

And yes - that was the sculptor from Kama Sutra. Jai Kumar! (The "other foul guy" was played by Naveen Andrews, back in his heavy heroin-using days. Heh.)

@5 I assume the Gold wedding comes from the Lannister getting married to a Stark for potential control over the north? Not quite as apt a name as Red/Purple. but it's another main turning point in ASoS.
Chris Nelly
10. Aeryl
I think Tywin has respect for people who stand up to those with more strength, which is why he has no respect for Cersei's snivelling about Joff. That previous episode showed that Tywin has Joff cowed, even though Joff is more powerful. I think him stepping in here showed he respected Tyrion standing up for Sansa, even though he could care less for Sansa's feelings. I think if Tywin had seen all those previous times Tyrion stood up to Joff, while he would have disliked the actual actions(the physicality of it at least) he would have respected the sentiment.
Jamie Watkins
11. Treesinger
Although I didn't mind watching Dany step up out of the bath, I kept wondering, where are her guards? In the book, I believe, he was captured and then brought before her. They are in real trouble if they can't protect her.
Chris Nelly
12. Aeryl
@11, And where is the Unsullied he killed to get that uniform?

I'm guessing that her khos are at the entrance to her tent, but they are vulnerable, as Daario just proved. It'll be interesting to see how things change.

I liked that part, where she stepped out of the tub. Huddling in the tub to hide her nudity was acknowledging his objectification of her, by standing unconcerned for her nudity, she was showing him that she will NOT be reduced to her bodyparts, as Mero wanted to and Daario wants to.

Jorah's SO gonna hate him!
Scott Silver
13. hihosilver28
@11&12 Treesinger & Aeryl:

I loved that scene. This is what the show should use nudity for, in service of the story. I do wish they would be a little more equal between the sexes though for nudity. The show is graphic in more ways than one, I don't understand why male frontal is danced around. It just feels a little weird.

Anyway, great episode, and I'm very much looking forward to the final two of the season.
DarthRachel
14. sofrina
you want sansa to be kind to tyrion because you like tyrion, not because it's in sansa's best interest. i know a lot of people think they would make an awesome match - but would they really? he'd still be under his father's thumb, and joffrey's very officially. the northmen would find a way to kill him if tyrion ever came north to rebuild winterfell. they're not having a lannister, and they damn well aren't having the imp, as their liege lord. and tyrion may be smart, but he still depends on lannister resources. if he can't figure out how to get out of that sandtrap, he will never be his own man and thus never able to do much under the rule of two tyrants.

sansa may be a sad, lonely kid, but she has learned a hard lesson in not trusting lannisters. at the end of the day, they are not her friends. joffrey promised to banish her father in exchange for a publich confession, then took ned's head on a whim. she would be an absolute fool to think that tyrion might not also go back on his word. i submit that she should continue to build as tough a shell as possible and rely only on herself for as long as it takes to be free of them. cooperation is one thing, but she doesn't have to submit her dignity on top of everything else.

on the bedding ritual, i think it's so commonplace to strip the newlyweds that no one considered sansa/joffrey issues - if they even knew about them. it's just what people do at a wedding in westeros.
Chris Nelly
15. Aeryl
There is this awesome quote from Ryan Gosling about how hurting a woman is ok for an R rating, but giving her oral pleasure will get it slapped with NC-17. I imagine for the men who make these shows, male peen is much the same, that line that cannot be crossed, without being porn.

They've grown up in a world where women's naked breasts are always on display, so now showing the woman's genital area is how you show how far you are willing to go visually. But showcasing a man's genitalia? That's so outside their realm of understanding, because MEN AREN'T OBJECTIFIED!!!! in their mind, so they can't do it, can't think about doing it.

They are so innured to the objectification, that they cannot tell the difference between using nudity, like in this scene, to serve the purpose of story and character, and using it in an objectifying manner. They think that putting nudity in a scene where two characters talk about something other than the nudity, means that they aren't objectifying the naked women, and that the exposition gives the nudity a point.
Scott Silver
16. hihosilver28
Spartacus' handling of nudity for both sexes was one of the things I applauded for that show.
Chris Nelly
17. Aeryl
Exactly!!! There were a lot of things I applauded about that show, like the non-titillating rape scenes vs titillating consensual scenes, and unique storytelling to keep the arena style fighting in the story, but the equal opportunity nudity was definitely top on that list
Fake Name
18. ThePendragon
Am I the only one who was pissed off by the lack of Coldhands? The ending really fell flat for me because I kept expecting him to show up.
Scott Silver
19. hihosilver28
@Aeryl
If only the first season wasn't the only good season. Ah well.

@ThePendragon
I would have been pissed off if Coldhands showed up this episode. It would have been too close to Sam's heroics, and besides, Coldhands doesn't show up until later in the book...which now we are kind of later in the book...so, I don't know. I was hoping that Sam's heroics weren't diminished by Coldhands showing up. I think he'll show up the final episode. And maybe we'll get our answer as to whether it is Benjen. :-)
Chris Nelly
20. Aeryl
@19, Oh, I got to disagree with that! It's Blood & Sand, War of the Damned, then Vengeance. Season 2, while it had the BEST ending, suffered from the new actors in old roles.

Gods of the Arena, like Gannicus, stands alone and highest above them all.

I don't see Coldhands getting introduced this year. Sam and Gilly still have to face off a wight too. I know they postponed the Walker scene to the wight scene, but as Bran's not made it to the Wall yet, we can't meet Coldhands yet. I imagine not much more than the RW will happen next ep(don't watch the previews, so I don't know) but Ep 10 will have Jon leave Ygritte, after tripping over Bran in Ep 9, Osha and Rickon splitting off, the reveal of Ramsay, and Sansa being given a hairnet with purple amethysts.
Chris Nelly
21. Aeryl
Oh, and Balon Greyjoy's funeral will be in Ep 10 too. That'll show them in the order they were thrown into the fire.
Scott Silver
22. hihosilver28
I liked the finale of Gods of the Arena, and yes Gannicus is AWESOME period. But I didn't like the rest of the prequel. Too much else going on and I didn't like how they made Crixus so green and inexperienced.

The actress they got for Naevia ruined everything she touched. I wanted her to die so incredibly bad, that I actually felt bad for feeling that much loathing and hatred for a character. So, I thought all of Vengeance was a waste, but the final two episodes of War of the Damned were excellent. Nothing compares to Andy Whitfield, though. So, Blood & Sand will be the only season of Spartacus I'll ever buy.

Not to completely hijack the thread with Spartacus talk, I think we'll see Balon die soon. Just to lend an "OH SHIT!" sense to RW. I do think they'll introduce Coldhands, otherwise why the ravens?
Chris Nelly
23. Aeryl
I liked Leslie Brandt. I think the biggest problem with Naevia's story was the writers, they couldn't find a way to give her anything to do but be angry. And I liked that they didn't fill that emptiness with sex with Crixus, cuz I'd have been wierded out watching two rape victims go at it, ALL THE TIME. After Crixus dies, she got to show a range she'd never been given before, and I finally came around.
Elizabeth Doolin
24. mochabean
Sansa's reactions to Tyrion make perfect sense to me, and are in keeping with her character. And, in my mind, it is another"realistic" subversion of the princess trope, isn't it? She's not going to see Tyrion for who he really is, she isn't going to kiss the frog and turn him into a conventionally handsome prince, she isn't going to recognize that he's more than the "god of tits and wine." He's about as far from both her heroic ideal of chivalry and the ideal of honor represented by Ned Stark, as you can get. And her question to Tyrion wasn't cruel -- it reflected her recognition of the practicalities of her situation -- just how long will the Lannisters allow her to remain childless? She knows it won't be long.
Scott Silver
25. hihosilver28
Aaaaand then she died and I cheered and cried tears of joy. Which makes me a terrible person, but still. I also hated what they turned Crixus into. Which was whipped by Naevia and lacking any sense or critical thought whatsoever. Anyway, let's just bask in the awesomeness of Gannicus. :-)
Alan Brown
26. AlanBrown
Even though there was not a lot of action in this episode, a lot was happening. And the Tyrion/Sansa scenes were riveting--extremely well acted by all involved. Best line is Tyrion's, paraphrasing the oath of the Night's Watch just before he passes out, "And so my watch begins..." Priceless.
DarthRachel
27. Petar Belic
Daario Naharis

Let's talk about Daario. In the books he's an interesting and in many ways a pivotal character.

Visually, I always knew he'd be challenge for the producers to address. A gold tooth, a three-pronged beard (occassionally dyed purple IIRC) - he's very masculine, aggressive and totally unsuited to being a king which Dany toys with occassionally.

The rough nature of him is part of Dany's attraction. But he has so much charisma Dany plays with the idea of discarding her fate for him. He's a bad-boy. To people he doesn't like, he's naturally menacing.

In modern times, he'd probably be riding a Harley Davidson, and look right at home on the set of Sons of Anarchy.

Daario in the television series seems to be none of these things. He's well-spoken. He has sculpted, fine features of an aesthete. He looks like someone you'd be happy for your sister to date.

The fan-made illustration looks like a lazy interpretation drawing heavily from India. (apologies to the artist).

To me, Daario has a lot more in common with Jason Momoa's Khal Drogo. In fact if Momoa had not already been Khal Drogo, he'd be perfect casting.

I am disappointed. But hopefully the television character evolves into someone closer to the Daario I read about. Stranger things have happened.
DarthRachel
28. Jerun
Peter Dinklage should get the Emmy just for the look he gave to Jack gleeson while delivering the lines "Then you'll be fucking your own bride with a wooden cock."

I liked the small moment between The Hound and Arya, especially the part where he mentions to her that your uncle is getting married, and that he is taking her to Catelyn and Rob for money. Arya looks the other way and we get to see just a hint of a smile on her face. Touching moment.
But, alas, we all know what's going to happen in the next episode.

I wish the scene where Sam slays the White Walker was extended. It would have been great to watch Sam kill him after an actual struggle. (like the book. :) )

All in all, one of the best episodes of this season.
DarthRachel
29. Teka Lynn
I found book-Daario absolutely repulsive in both his attitude and appearance. Sheesh, Dany. I was actually quite relieved when Fabio-light showed up on my screen, and the actors do have good chemistry.
DarthRachel
30. Lsana
@7,

Not naming children until they're at least two is a Wildling custom not shared by those south of the wall. Hence the reason that in the books, Gilly has to remind Jon and Sam not to name the two Wildling babies in their care because it's considered bad luck to name them too early.
Theresa DeLucci
31. theresa_delucci
As in most things, it seems, I agree with Aeryl on Spartacus season rankings, but sometimes switch Gods of the Arena with Blood and Sand because Andy was amazing. I think, when this season of Game of Thrones is done, fans looking for something with a lot of action and intrigue should definitely look into Spartacus with an open mind. And patience. The first three episodes are really cheesy. But priceless for their swearing.

Gods of the Area, to me, is like Downton Abbey upstairs/downstairs drama where the servants' lives are literally in the hands of their masters. It was riveting.

I couldn't watch Azog in The Hobbit w/o thinking of the actor who played him (the handsome Manu Bennet -- now on Arrow) and imagining this orc yelling "CAPUA!" and "Lick my hole." Ahem.

Back to Daario, I do think the actor gave him appropriate swagger. I'm much happier with this prettyboy Daario. I think even if his hair was blue, I'd still like him. But the imagery is so jarring and silly in the scope of the show. I think it's wise for the show to make Daario into "someone you'd like your sister to date" or else the audience would be questioning Dany's judgment. I know I sure did after pages and pages of "Oh, I know I should be governing a city, but I can't stop thinking about Daaaaaaario and his sexy gold tooth."

Keep in mind that this is the first time Dany's chosen a romantic partner. Maybe she just needs more practice.
Scott Silver
32. hihosilver28
Theresa, agreed that the first 3 episodes of Blood & Sand are cheesy. In fact I only made it through the first half hour before turning it off. Then a year later I made it to The Pits and was hooked. It's definitely worth the investment. I would say people should watch the first season (and Gods of the Arena since you and Aeryl like it so much) and then just watch the final 2 episodes.

Book Daario didn't drive me nuts, but holy hell, Daenerys' reaction to him did. As you put it, pretty much all of her ADWD chapters were pretty torturous. And Dany swooning whenever he touched those effing dagger hilts just made me want to ralph.
Rob Munnelly
33. RobMRobM
I loved the Episode - the ability to let the wedding disaster play out at length, with all of the epic lines, was the best possible evidence for devoting two seasons to ASOS.

I loved the crows/ravens with Sam and Gilly. Not even explained but will pay off later.

I'm getting aggravated that several website recaps have been messing up the meaning of Stannis saying that he saw a battle in the snow. Not talking about a future event - talking about how he saw the First of First Men battle between NW and wights and White Walkers at end of Season 2/opening of Season 3.
Chris Nelly
34. Aeryl
Really? I didn't see it that way, I thought he was referring to himself going North, a nice little bit of foreshadowing for those of us who know what's coming.
Scott Silver
35. hihosilver28
RobMRobM-
I completely took that as a future event. After all, Stannis is talking about seeing things in the flames relating to him and R'hllor. The battle at the Fist had nothing to do with Stannis. I'm absolutely positive (or as much as I can be without knowing for sure what the show will do) it's talking of things to come.
Theresa DeLucci
36. theresa_delucci
Yeah, I think it was foreshadowing what's to come. Just another motivation for him to go North when Davos tells him to. Like it's his destiny.
DarthRachel
37. michie
nice bluth sigil!! :D
Anthony Pero
38. anthonypero
Second Sons featured in this episode... of course, this is true almost every week:

The Mercenaries
Tyrion
Stannis
The Hound (may be stretching it)

But I definitely think the Episode title had as much to do with Tyrion and Stannis as witht he Mercs.
Anthony Pero
39. anthonypero
6. Aeryl

And *speculation possible book spoilers*

Tywin blames Tyrion for his wife's death, and wants to believe that Tyrion is the bastard of the Mad King from when the Mad King raped his wife.

*end spoilers*

That has more to do with Tywin's hate for Tyrion than his dwarfism.
Chris Nelly
40. Aeryl
Tywin's hate for Tyrion stems directly from his dwarfism. I mean, he's no prince to any of his children, and in his eyes, he's done a wondrous thing for Tyrion. But he feels the dwarfism is the EVIDENCE of your white text above.

But the reasons he despises Tyrion all come from the fact that he's a dwarf. Tywin had YEARS to begin grooming Tyrion to become Lord of Casterly Rock, and his refusal to do so has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with Tyrion's behavior, as Jaime joined the KG when Tyrion was still an adolescent. If he'd been given respect and responsibilities in his youth, he wouldn't have grown into a drunken lech in his early 20's, doing the things that "earned" his father's scorn.

And the entire reason he refused to treat Tyrion as his proper heir, HAS EVERYTHING to do with his dwarfism.
Rob Munnelly
41. RobMRobM
I'll give you an alternative/additional Tywin hate Tyrion reason - that Tywin is (privately) addicted to whores. He views it as his only real character flaw. And so it drives him crazy when Tyrion does the same thing. I should note that this theory has some support in the books (Chataya's has a secret passage running to the Tower of the Hand, built by an unnamed prior Hand of the King - and I happen to believe it was Tywin.) It also has some support from future events which... I'll not discuss at this point.

@34-36 - In ASOS, the description in text makes it pretty clear that Mel is showing Stannis the battle at the Fist - which was an obvious and impressive show of power on Mel's and the LOL's part to show Stannis a fight between the forces of darkness and the NW happening thousands of miles away. The fact that he saw it is one of the reasons that Stannis decides to take Davos's advice later (which will happen in Season 4, no doubt). I rewatched the TV show and saw no reason to deviate from my opinion. The dialogue makes clear he saw a battle - and it does not state or imply that Stannis was present at the battle. If he saw himself there, the dialogue text would have been different. The timing of when Mel shows Stannis the battle - late in Season 2 - lines up perfectly with the battle at the Fist. I don't see any reason why it has to be a future battle or why it would make more sense for it to be a future battle. Reread the ASOS text, rewatch the TV show scene and let me know what you think.

Rob
Scott Silver
42. hihosilver28
@RobMRobM
Wow. I don't remember that scene at all in the books. Can you give me the chapter? Because I don't remember Davos ever being in the room when Mel and Stannis are looking into the fire. Wiki of Ice and Fire here I come! Thanks for sending the correction.

EDIT: Welp, I retract my statement. You, sir, are correct. I do think that the show is making a prophetic foreshadowing, though. Otherwise, why not put it exactly as it is in the books and say he saw men in black on a high hill in the snow?
Chris Nelly
43. Aeryl
@41, I do agree with your assumption about Tywin's proclivities, and I can see that being a PART of it, and why he reacted so extreme to Tyrion's wedding Tysha, who Jaime told him was a prostitute. (And a reason why I think if SPOILER Tyrion is Aerys', it may have even been consensual, in retaliation for Tywin's whoring waysEND SPOILER).

But I don't think that explains all of it.
DarthRachel
44. littlefinger87
Tywin might recognize Shae from before the battle at the fords against Roose Bolton. Shae most likely was not taken from Tywin by Bronn, but she may have been paraded before him and Tywin chose someone else.

Why doesn't Cercei ever suggest to her father to get remarried? Seems like a missed opportunity: I'll get remarried when you do. She's too much the dutiful daughter to play this card I suppose.
DarthRachel
45. Aduiavas
I wonder when/if Loras is going to join the Kingsguard? My theory is that he will ask for it so as not to marry Cersei. Can't say I blame him. :p Anyway, that marriage is not going to happen I think...
Rob Munnelly
46. RobMRobM
@45, Agreed, except that Loras won't be the Tyrell asking for it. Cersei burned too many bridges with the Tyrells that the QoT can't let the Loras marriage happen, even at the risk of having inheritance rights pass to Margaery's second child without the Tyrell name.
Chris Nelly
47. Aeryl
I was thinking they would wait until the person who decreed the marriage was out of the picture, but that is quite a long time to wait, at least with a 35+ year old woman you are still hoping to get healthy babies out of(in this day and age of no medicine as we know it).

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