Fri
Mar 1 2013 1:00pm
Malazan Re-read of the Fallen: Return of the Crimson Guard, Book Three, Chapter Two, Part One

The Malazan Re-read of the Fallen on Tor.com: Return of the Crimson Guard, Book Three, Chapter Two, Part One Welcome to the Malazan Re-read of the Fallen! Every post will start off with a summary of events, followed by reaction and commentary by your hosts Bill and Amanda (with Amanda, new to the series, going first), and finally comments from Tor.com readers. In this ar ticle, we’ll cover the first half of Book Three, Chapter One of Return of the Crimson Guard (RotCG).

A fair warning before we get started: We’ll be discussing both novel and whole-series themes, narrative arcs that run across the entire series, and foreshadowing. Note: The summary of events will be free of major spoilers and we’re going to try keeping the reader comments the same. A spoiler thread has been set up for outright Malazan spoiler discussion.

 

Book Three, Chapter Two, Part One

SCENE ONE

Having been told by Nil to “prepare for travel and battle,” Rillish had Chord get everyone ready and now waits on his horse. Nil and Nether arrive and tell Rillish just that he needs to follow. Rillish tells Talia he’ll see her later and follows the twins past at least a thousand Wickans. Nil tells him they are riding out to Laseen’s “deliverance” because they have sensed a major confrontation happening in the West, one which they will tip the balance of in Laseen’s favor and thus demand their sovereignty as payment. Nil adds Rillish is coming to be their negotiator.

SCENES TWO AND THREE

Rillish notes that those Wickans in sight are all the oldest and that they don’t plan on coming back, but are making their last sacrifice for their descendants. He asks Nil which Warren they’ll take and the reply is “The Abyss itself.” They enter a portal.

SCENE FOUR

Hurl, next to Banath, looks over the battlefield thinking the Imperials are doing better than she’d expected. She joins Liss, Rell, and the three brothers and asks if Liss can keep them hidden so they can deal with Ryllandaras. Liss answers yes, though she worries about the mage on the far side (Bala) as well as what worse they might see in the night. Hurl asks Rell why he left his home and he tells her he was exiled, then amends that to “I left of my own choice, for to stay would have been untenable.” He says how he rose quickly for his age up through the ranks of his people and then, “full of myself,” he challenged a ruling not once but twice. For that he was forbidden to carry arms and so he chose exile, though now he thinks he would do otherwise given the same choice. They look on as magery takes the field.

SCENE FIVE

Nait’s group has become targets since taking down the demon, but they’ve so far managed to repel them all, with some help from the Moranth Gold. The mage Heuk, who has been telling Nait constantly “wait until night,” gives him a drink then takes him to meet Bala, who tells him she is exhausted and must withdraw, adding Heuk will take over and she thinks he’ll do fine (in fact, she says she’s happy to be leaving before he starts what he’s going to start). She disappears. Heuk tells him everyone he gave the drink to now has a “touch of the talent,” so they can see anyone actively using magic. Nait heads down to the arbalest to start targeting enemy mages.

SCENE SIX

Possum watches the Imperial Tent, having been given strict orders not to enter it no matter what. He wonders where Havva Gulen is and thinks if anything happens to Laseen he’ll step in and take charge. An inhuman shriek arises from inside the tent and a demon crawls out and dies horribly. As he wonders what could have done that, he realizes that the rust-red dust he’d just touched with his glove is otataral and he backs away. He imagines Laseen sitting in the center of the tent, the floor covered in otataral negating any magic, leaving her one on one with her attackers, and he wonders how many she’s killed, along with how many she’ll have to kill before Cowl himself makes the attempt. He decides she’s fine and heads off to check the field. He’s shocked by the slaughter and chaos. He sees a Moranth Gold phalanx being decimated by Guard magic. Heuk appears and says it’s time for their “duel.” Possum tells him there are at least a dozen Avowed mages down there but Heuk says, “The boys got maybe three.” When Possum asks who he is (disturbed by his black eyes and what looks like blood at his mouth), Heuk says:

“Your recruiters named me a mage, but I am no mage . . . you’d best fly away little death crow. Keep to your games in the shallows of shadows. As for myself—I plumb the infinite depths of Night Eternal! . . . I am a mere worshipper of Night . . . I am about to call upon my god for he has returned and the time is long overdue for a demonstration of his gathering presence upon this world.”

As Possum starts to leave a group of soldiers with crossbows tell him to lower his Warren, a shock to him that they can see him in his Warren. They realize he’s a Claw and leave him alone and he interrupts an argument between Nait and a Moranth commander. Possum suggests the Moranth rally to this spot and the Gold leader leaves. Nait introduces himself as Sergeant Jumpy, a name Possum recognizes, and when he complains of the Moranth being a big flag to the enemy about their position, Possum tells him the Guard has already noted them as, along with the center, the last Imperial strong-point. Jumpy (at last, I can call him Jumpy in these recaps!) suggest Possum run away then and Possum threatens him, but is threatened right back. He decides to leave “with dignity” by ordering Jumpy to do what he is doing. Possum heads out, calming himself with the pleasant thought that they’re all going to die.

SCENE SEVEN

Shimmer advances with Greymane, Smoky, Shell and 30 or so Avowed (roughly the same as Skinner), one of whom pulls Shimmer aside to show her an Avowed killed by “the heel of an open hand” that smashed his facial bones into his brain. They realize it was Urko and Shimmer orders three Avowed out to find and kill him. She asks Greymane if he could take Urko and the reply is “no.” She takes that as a refusal to fight, which he rejects and vows to her he would defend her with his life. They’re interrupted by an unveiling of Kurald Galain, which Smoky and Shell call “impossible” as there are no Tiste Andii on the field. A bunch of Avowed mages appear and Smoky says they’re all going to be needed to try and deal with the escalating magery, adding that whoever raised the Kurald Galain is beyond him. They all move forward toward the front.

SCENE EIGHT

Liss is shocked by the Galain unveiling and tells Hurl things are getting out of hand out there, so much so that even Ryllandaras will take pause and try to hide or flee, meaning they have to find him first. They head out to do that, with Hurl uneasy at the behavior of the three brothers.

SCENE NINE

Ullen is recovering from an attack by a Veil that was slowed by a saboteur throwing something that blew up shrapnel, shredding Ullen’s right arm (tendons and nerves as well) and allowing a Claw Hand to take on the Veil. Ullen continues on, hearing reports that Dom is wounded and possibly dead, Urko is retreating to the center, the Kurald Galain belongs to them, and that the Moranth are rallying to the redoubt (where Jumpy is), which is about to be attacked by a group of Avowed led by Skinner. Ullen orders them to assemble all broken groups and concentrate fire on Skinner’s phalanx. Captain Moss appears and says Laseen has assigned him to Ullen’s staff and commends Ullen’s acts as commander. Another report says five Avowed continue to hold the bridge against the 20,000 Kanese, and Ullen thinks there are 30 or 40 more Avowed behind those five.

SCENE TEN

Possum spots Coil bent over the bodies of a Claw hand. Infuriated that she is eliminating her rivals, he stabs her in the back. Just before dying, she calls him a fool, saying the Claw belonged to Mallick and she “was all that stood between them and her [Laseen].” She dies and her shape reverts to that of High Mage Havva Gulen. Shaken and angered he hadn’t know (“she was running her own game just as he”), he steps into Shadow but is hammered by Edgewalker, who tells him “Your trespassings annoy me . . Shadow is not to be used so lightly . . . Go and do not return.” Edgewalker shakes him and throws him aside, and Possum exits and, wreathed in Mockra, begins to head for the Imperial tent across the field, now being overrun by the Avowed. Suddenly, the Imperial tent goes up in a huge flame and Possum thinks Cowl has taken out Laseen. Fey, giddy, he laughs out loud and walks thinking it’s all over and he’s ready to take on whomever, including Cowl.

SCENE ELEVEN

Jumpy’s group is holding on at the edge of Heuk’s Darkness. Tinsmith sends Jumpy up to tell Heuk the Avowed are heading their way and Heuk says he’ll do what he can. Temp and Ferrule join Jumpy’s group. A pair of Avowed mages appear in front of them while Skinner to Jumpy’s surprise starts to circle around north with the non-mages (Jumpy assumes several other mages are around the rest of the trench). Ferrule and Temp go after Skinner just before the Mages begin their assault, which begins to kill the defenders horribly. A black “snake” comes from the hill where Heuk is and heads toward one of the Avowed mages. Jumpy and the others are felled by a sudden blast and then they throw their munitions at the mages. Several of his group tell him Heuk’s blackness drove off the mages and Jumpy heads up the hill to find Heuk. Instead, he finds a Tiste standing over Heuk’s unconscious body:

Tall, black as night, almond eyes, long straight shimmering black hair . . . He wore a coat of the finest mail that descended all the way to his ankles, shimmering like night itself. And it seemed to Nait that the figure was not entirely there; he could see through it. Something hung at its side . . . a void hung there yammering terror at him [Jumpy]. It seemed to suck in the night. “Keep them here, soldier,” [the figure] said. “Keep them close. Worse is to come. Much worse.”

The figure disappears into the darkness and Jumpy wonders how things could possibly get worse.

 

Amanda’s Reaction to Book Three, Chapter Two, Part One

So here is one big reason why falling in love and forging a relationship during a war is Not Good. That exchange between Rillish and Talia is beautifully done, particularly Talia’s heartfelt “Come back to me.” Makes me worry sincerely that one or both of them are not going to make it to the end of the book!

I love the goal of Nil and Nether, and the fact that the oldest and grimmest of their people go to try and achieve self-rule for the Wickans. I just hope that a) Laseen survives what is coming (sneaky as she is, I can’t see her falling) and b) she negotiates fairly with these who are coming to deliver her from the Crimson Guard.

I can see exactly why Rillish would be wary about travelling by Warren again, after what happened last time. It amuses me that he chants prayers to multiple gods here: “Fanderay, Soliel, the Queen of Dreams, Dessembrae, and Trake.” I wonder why Togg isn’t one of Rillish’s favoured?

Oh, I absolutely love finding out about Rell, and a little more about the Seguleh and what rules their life. These duels are astonishing. I laughed a little as well at the fact that Rell was exiled because he dared to question a judge’s ruling during a duel. Obviously painful for him, but such a daft reason for him to have to leave his people. Hurl sees straight to the truth here, I think: “Yes, Rell, you have come a long way. But perhaps your only failing was being too headstrong in a society too rigid to accommodate it.”

Esslemont expresses beautifully here the carnage and frightening power of the magic sweeping the battlefield: “Earthquake, firestorm and typhoon all rolled into one. Gods aid the common soldiers in that maelstrom! All they can hope to do is keep their heads down and avoid notice while the Avowed mages flex their muscles to clear the field.”

Ha, Nait’s reaction to Bala is brilliant. And it’s something that, as a larger person, I really appreciate. Not everyone is drawn to the skinny through desire, and it’s brilliant that Esslemont recognizes this. And, y’know something? I think in that moment where Nait meets Bala, this was a Malazan novel, not one written by a particular person. It captured the very essence of what a Malazan novel can be.

I remember the tinges of horror that Esslemont brought to Night of Knives—how chilling some of his scenes were. And here, for the first time in this book, he brings that to bear, as we see Possum encounter Heuk. Who is Heuk? A worshipper of night? “While Possum watched, revolted, the man upended the jug over his head. Thick fluid—clotted blood, he imagined—ran down over the man’s hair, face and shoulders.”

Okay, I admit that I might have doubted my liking for Return of the Crimson Guard as we went through some of those earlier chapters, but now that the action is zipping along, Esslemont is doing a grand job—first, with this exchange between Shimmer and Greymane, and his admiration of Urko, and then as Kurald Galain is unleashed. Heuk, yes? Knowing what we do of Kurald Galain, this is an immense event upon this battlefield and I love that Esslemont shows his characters to be treating it with the respect it is due, such as Smoky knowing that whoever raised it is beyond his power to deal with.

Are we going to see Tayschrenn in this battle?

Ullen is a hero, isn’t he? Standing there and hearing about the way the battle is turning, while his right arm hangs as just so much dead meat.

I’m interested by how many times Laseen has been referenced, with people wondering what she is up to and where she is, and yet we’ve not seen her at all. Just something that might have involved her which Possum witnessed. What is she up to?

I wonder if Moss is just after the Old Guard? I don’t like that he’s attached himself now to Ullen’s company... I worry Ullen might be a target.

Is it Edgewalker that Possum meets in Shadow? This is two people who have believed Edgewalker to be an Imass.

Gods, Possum is so self-centred! Everything is going so badly and all he can think about is how his ambitions have been thwarted, about how his life has been wasted. Not even a shred of remorse over killing High Mage Havva Gulen, only considering how it might affect him. What a nasty piece of work....

So who is this Tiste Andii summoned by Heuk? Since blood and sacrifice has been involved, I’m guessing that it is an ascendant or god? Elder? Because we’ve seen him before in this book, my money is on Draconus!

 

Bill’s Reaction to Book Three, Chapter Two, Part One

I agree that’s a bit of an “uh oh” moment, Amanda, with Rillish and Talia. For me my favorite moment is when she steps up and takes his hand in hiding.

I think it’s another quietly moving moment not when Rillish hears Nil speak of sovereignty but when he notes the age of those Wickans riding out and realizes this is a last ride for them in their minds, a final sacrifice for their children and their children’s children. And what will we see of the Abyss?

It’s a subtle little thing but note how the first mention we get of the Imperial tent in this chapter is that it is “advertising” itself. A little clue.

And boy was Liss right about how this was a night for magery and worse to come

I also enjoyed this little moment with Rell and I love picturing the astonishment of the Seguleh when he questions not one judgment but two. And again, it’s a quietly moving moment, his realization that he would not act as he had in his youth, that there is value in things other than fighting, that “Raising something from seed to fruitful crop would, I think, prove very satisfying.” This moment with Rell reminds me of Coll from Lloyd Alexander’s amazingly good Prydain series—the warrior turned farmer who would always rather be tending his plants rather than hewing things down.

This is all handled well and subtly, these scenes in Jumpy’s trench. We’ve got skirmishers coming in, setting us up for how this will become a rallying point. The Gold overhead, setting us up for their later presence. Heuk able to pick Nait up setting us up for his strength in the night. It all develops slowly and really is just wonderfully done I think. As is all the use of the magery in the battle. And that is a great scene with Bala and also a quick little moment of relief from all that is happening and going to happen.

Speaking of foreshadowing, we get a bit with Possum here wondering where Havva Gulen is and thinking he hasn’t seen her in some time. Poor Havva.

Hmm. Laseen. Floor dusted in otataral. Where have we seen this before... “Pure Laseen” indeed.

Love that description of the battlefield as Possum sees it. What horrors it must be for the common grunt. It’s also interesting Possum’s reaction to the slaughter by magic, something we’ve seen before from several characters and something we’ll see again in the future. And a similar reaction both earlier and coming in the same fashion with regard to the use of munitions. Ahh, for the good old days of just hacking a soldier to pieces with a blade....

Possum is getting just a little creeped out by Heuk, eh? I’m sure we’ll discuss in the comments, but I also see this as a reference to and then an appearance by (though not in full form) Draconus, who after all is the Suzerain of Night and who has a void at his side. Which makes one wonder about the whole “For he has returned” line.

I absolutely love the way Jumpy handles Possum, the image of him trying to sound all cold and icy and dangerous only to see a handful of sharper-loaded crossbows aimed at him, and the way Possum tries to retreat with “power” via his order that nobody is paying attention to because they’re so blindingly self-evident.

I’m with you Amanda on the response to Heuk’s Kurald Galain. After all that we’ve seen on this field (and all that we know we haven’t seen), the “oh s—t” response these people have to this gets me all tingly.

Urko. Braven Tooth. Temp. Ferrule. A bunch of old guys you don’t want coming after you. Stay off their lawns.

And speaking of “Get off my lawn,” all Edgewalker needs is a bathrobe. Love the way he keeps popping in and out of these scenes.

While I really like how Esslemont has done most of his setting up, the bits about the three brothers feels a little clumsily obvious to me. Not that I think he’s trying to be subtle here and failing; I just would have preferred a bit less of it.

Lots of rumors about Dom being fallen.

OK, I have to confess I’m not a big fan of the 5 vs. 20,000. Someone talk me down on that one.

Possum just does not do well with the ladies, does he? Amazing that he doesn’t stop to think at all here with Coil/Havva.

Another nice bit of comic relief with Temp and Ferrule. These last few chapters Esslemont is really bringing the juice I think—vivid detail, good sense of action and pacing, great mix of tension, horror, humor, and quieter emotions. I’ve pointed out my issues with this novel, but these last few bits have been excellent I’d say.

And you have to agree with Jumpy here at our split—just how are things going to get worse. And so we leave you with that image of Hood squatting....


Amanda Rutter is the editor of Strange Chemistry books, sister imprint to Angry Robot.

Bill Capossere writes short stories and essays, plays ultimate frisbee, teaches as an adjunct English instructor at several local colleges, and writes SF/F reviews for fantasyliterature.com.

19 comments
Tufty
1. Tufty
I don't think there can be a lot of doubt that the figure with Heuk is anyone other than Draconus. Same titles and aspect of Night, same void at his side that we saw in the prologue. But it certainly does beg the question of just how constrained is Draconus while he is within Dragnipur? Jumpy sees right through him, so it certainly seems like this is just a 'projection' of Draconus, but still! Could Draconus always do this while in Dragnipur, and simply didn't because he didn't have any worshippers (that we know of) before now?

Lots of questions there. Maybe we will get answers and maybe we won't :P
Steven Halter
2. stevenhalter
This chapter is really good. The battle descriptions, the action--all very well done. Who is the Tiste? What happened to Laseen? duh duh dum -- tune in next week

I am uncertain here about the identity of the Tiste. Draconis is a decent guess it seems like. Of course, last we knew he was inside of Anomander's sword. Another guess is that it is the "god" aspect of Anomander.
Darren Kuik
3. djk1978
Re: 5 vs 20,000 we've seen something similar in how the Bonehunters held the quay at the end of tBH. And that was just marines against a mob. This is Avowed holding a narrow bridge against an army, but not an army that I ever got the impression was all that good. One wonders why they don't just cross another way or if they have mages. Also I don't think the 5 are alone are they? Don't they cycle other Avowed in when one of them gets chewed up too much? Normally implausible but in the Malazan world I don't recall having much issue with it. Avowed are next thing to ascendancy aren't they?

Agree on the Tiste - Draconus and Rake are the only real possibilities. If Draconus I guess it's a projection since he doesn't have Dragnipur at his side. But we've seen him in the book before, and not Rake so he has that going for him.

So Laseen's running her same bag of tricks with the otataral dust ambush. It's an expression of supreme confidence in her fighting ability. She clearly doesn't think anyone can match her hand to hand.
David Thomson
4. ZetaStriker
The 5 on 20,000 made sense to me. I'm not reading along, but from what I remember it sounded like several factors allowed it to work:

1. It was a chokepoint, which eliminated the advantage of superior numbers. Only so many can come at the Avowed at a time, and given their resilience it seems plausible they could continue to win.

2. The reinforcements. There's a mention of other Avowed behind them, so my assumption was that they were cycling out as some became too wounded to keep going.

Now, in an open field and cut off from the rest of their army, I can see them being taken down by sheer numbers. With the above advantages though, I can see them holding out at a position like that for quite a while.
- -
5. hex
The hair color pretty much rules out Anomander as the Tiste Andii, doesn't it? It should be silver, but instead its black. Silchas Ruin is an albino, and Andarist is described as having a white beard. Draconus seems like the only possibility, as far as characters we're aware of. Despite being the best candidate, he's supposed to be held up in Dragnipur.... unless this battle is taking place after the events of TtH. Is there any evidence that would suggest otherwise?
I guess Draconus could just be "projecting" like other's have suggested being "not entirely there", but that seems like cheating.
Darren Kuik
6. djk1978
hex @5: Spoiler text white out:

I totally agree that it's Draconus, just trying to ensure mystery for others. I think this is a foreshadowing of Draconus escaping from Dragnipur. Note that the persona has the darkness void at his side, not the sword Dragnipur itself. That matches the prologue view of Draconus and the pre-Dragnipur finality he dragged around. Also Nait hear's chains and wagon wheels but can see right through him so that lends credence to the projection idea. Rake hasn't fed Dragnipur, and it's weakening so Draconus is able to appear outside it if not physically escape.

End spoiler
Tufty
7. Tufty
@ #3 and #4 - I think there's just one Avowed "spare" that gets a turn resting at a time, then takes the place of another to let them rest (it's described in better detail in an upcoming chapter). But due to the chokepoint nature, as long as the Avowed don't take any significant wounds (or too many minor wounds) they can last as long as they don't exhaust themselves. It's just a question of how long they can go before they are exhausted.


@5 - Elder creatures certainly seem able to change their shape, though. In the prologue, Osserc was totally golden and had tusks. In the MT/RG prologues, Mael appeared to be a shimmering being made of water and ice. Any of the more powerful elder creatures, including the Andii brothers, might have that capability, especially if it just a projection of themselves appearing to a worshipper and so appearing as the worshipper perceives them rather than their true form.

As to your timeline question - this battle and RotCG in general are definitely taking place before TtH. Traveller's story flows directly from RotCG to TtH. Furthermore, there's a little section with Pearl/Ditch in TtH that I think will shed some more light on this topic that I'll try and point out when we get to it.

Certainly there are many possibilities, but the void hanging at the figure's side I think *has* to be a link to the RotCG prologue - who else ever has something like that? Would it be 'cheating' for Draconus to project his image outside of Dragnipur? Why not? Quick Ben does it all the time, and QB doesn't have someone invoking a huge ritual for him like Heuk is doing.
Darren Kuik
8. djk1978
Dragnipur is not a totally impenetrable barrier in any case. We've seen examples of other things getting out (the Hounds). We've seen Paran come and go as he wished. A being of Draconus's power manifesting some part of himself beyond Dragnipur doesn't feel like cheating at all.
Tufty
9. worrywort
Thanks for mentioning Coll, that thought hadn't occurred to me but it's apt. Great character, and Prydain is a great series.
- -
11. hex
@6,7,8 Fair points all. I suppose it's pretty clear when you take all of the detail into consideration.
Brian R
12. Mayhem
Another side point - did you notice Smoky's oh crap moment .. "Father Light preserve us!"

Really interesting choice of deity to pray to given the circumstances, especially considering FoD.
I'm definitely in the Draconus camp, and Tufty is right about his hints.


As for the Avowed holding the bridge ... I don't think the Kanese army particularly wants to join the fight yet, so they are probably doing the "send in the troops one at a time to fight the heroes" tactic.
Crossbows etc don't seem to work well on Avowed - see Iron Bars earlier. But I would expect the battle to be taking its toll nonetheless...
Tufty
13. SSSimon
Bill, thanks for mentioning the wonderful Prydain Chronicles. I love those books!
Julian Augustus
14. Alisonwonderland
@8. I agree it is most likely Draconus, but that bothers me. I don't think you can use Paran as evidence that Dragnipur was not totally impervious. For any being killed with Dragnipur, it is almost certainly impervious. After all, Draconus has been inside Dragnipur for a hundred thousand years, and all his power availed him nought in all that time.

Paran was not killed, but was drawn into the sword by means of the Hounds' blood. So he could come and go as he pleased, and he could engineer the Hounds into another warren outside of Dragnipur. Outside of that special circumstance, no one killed by Dragnipur should be able to project themselves outside the sword's warren; they would be too busy dragging the wagon away from chaos. From what we saw of Draconus' life inside of Dragnipur in both GoTM and tTH, I am highly sceptical of the idea that he could be projecting himself all over the place outside of Dragnipur as we see him doing here.

And another thing. Heuk, a human, having access to an Elder warren and being able to unveil Kurald Galain is contrary to everything I thought I knew about the relationship between the Elder warrens and their humans-accessible alternatives. I consider it a weakness of both Erikson and Esslemont that they set up the rules of magic in their world and then both break those rules whenever it is convenient to do so.
Tufty
15. worrywort
There is no inconsistency, a priest (not a mage) of Darkness used blood ritual to entreat his Elder God to open an Elder Warren. Blood ritual in Elder worship was set up from the beginning, in K'rul's Belfry during GotM, and has always been a part of the series (the Jhistals come to mind as well). I won't go into details of TTH since the re-read isn't there yet.
Darren Kuik
16. djk1978
@14, I think those rules are more reader imposed than author imposed though, at least that's how I feel. So if the author goes against what we as readers view as the norm is that the author's fault or the readers'? I get the feeling that you expect that once a magic user has a certain set of magic skills (a warren in this case) that he/she can only "cast spells" from that warren. That appears to be true for most cases, although there are also plenty of examples of people who know more than one or like Beak know "all of them". My point is that since Malazan is GURPS based in its RPG days that concept of only learning spells from a single warren: ruse, serc, hood, tellann or whatever is wrong. In GURPS you can learn anything so their RPG character could easily know how to draw from hood and from mockra with separate abilities.

It's more real world. If my class is computer consultant in the real world does that mean my skill set is only that and I can't learn how to fix my car (something that is currently magic to me)?

Anyway that's just my view. Going more into the books for this requires discussing future events so I'll just +1 to what worrywort said.

As for Dragnipur again, since this is spoilerish I'll white it out: Rake is not feeding Dragnipur, which is weakening its power. More on this in TTH.
Bill Capossere
17. Billcap
Glad to see some love for Prydain on here--those are some of my favorite books of all time (made my life when they also became among my son's favorites)

Mayhem--nice catch on the Father Light

Worrywart--that's how I see it as well. And thanks to those holding off on some explanations due to spoilers (or for whiting them out)
Julian Augustus
18. Alisonwonderland
@15:
There is no inconsistency, a priest (not a mage) of Darkness used blood ritual to entreat his Elder God to open an Elder Warren.
What Elder God? Since we are talking about Galain, let's be more specific. Is there an Elder God of Galain? Certainly not Mother Dark, she's been absent from the series to this point. Rake? He doesn't consider himself a god. The only other times we've seen Galain unveiled is by Rake and the Andii with him. We've met his brothers, but neither Ruin nor Andarist has been seen using Galain so far. Andarist is dead, and Silchas doesn't sound like a god who will unveil Galain on some battlefield at the behest of some unknown human. So where did the Galain come from? The book suggests Draconus, but how can Draconus be unveiling Galain and projecting himself onto a human battlefield when he's been trapped in Dragnipur for 100000 years? And since when did Draconus become a god worshipped by humans? I know it is all cool for someone to unveil some badass Galain on a battlefield, but when you examine the mechanics it doesn't make sense.
Tufty
19. Tufty
@18

A priest's power comes from their god(dess). Any creature can be a god, it doesn't matter what warren or abilities the creature has. Ammanas is the master of Meanas (ie Shadowthrone), and also before he became a god he was a strong user of Rashan and Thyr, too. When his priests call upon him, Shadowthrone gives them power using Meanas and/or Rashan and/or Thyr, because that is what he has available to give. When priests of the QoD call for her aid, she gives them power from her use of the D'riss and Thyr warrens, because that is where her own power resides. Priests of Burn and priests of Fener are granted power from their respective gods through Tennes magic, but the powers they are granted are extremely different because Burn and Fener shape and distribute their power in different forms.
Other gods don't operate that way at all. When Cotillion is called upon in his Patron of Assassins role, he doesn't seem to ever benefit his followers (I say followers though I like the idea of Kalam being an assassin priest :P ) through granting them magic, instead he just shows up personally to help.

The confusion, I think, stems from the fact that a lot of priests are also mages in their own right with their own warren usage, which blends our perception of the distinction between priestly magic and mage magic. Banaschar is a good example of the priestly sort - he seems to have only the tiniest bit of his own ability with warrens, so he's not much of a mage, but at the end of TBH we see D'rek's power return to him, and suddenly he can detect his stalker, sniff out plague and other talents without ever needing to open a warren himself.

So in Heuk/Draconus' case, it doesn't matter what Anomander, Silchas, Andarist, MD or anyone else is doing. Heuk is a priest of Draconus. His ritual of worship creates a link from the priest to the god, requesting power, and Draconus provides it to Heuk. Since the source of Draconus' power is Galain, elder darkness, the power he provides to Heuk is of the same.

Yes, there are other gods of Darkness, but you seem to think there can be only one god of darkness... which just isn't true. Soliel and Shedenul are both gods (goddesses) of healing. Burn and Fener are both gods who use Tennes. The QoD and D'rek are both gods who use D'riss. Father Shadow, Sheltatha Lore, Shadowthrone and Cotillion are all gods of shadow. Father Light and Osseric for light. Mael, Beru, Nerruse and the MT sea god would all use Ruse. We've even seen the Deragoth being worshipped and they are creatures of darkness completely unrelated to the Andii and MD, so we already know there are many gods of darkness.

There's no mutual exclusion principle that allows only a single god per warren/aspect!

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