Mon
Dec 31 2012 1:00pm

Spoiler Thread for the Memories of Light, Week Six

Memories of Light on Tor.com

Welcome to the spoiler thread for the Memories of Light, the daily preview of the final volume of Robert Jordan’s epic Wheel of Time series, A Memory of Light. Some memories may shed new light on long-held theories and all are sure to have many different interpretations. Join the discussion of their meaning on the Memories of Light spoiler thread below!

Peruse more theories on the other spoiler threads for the Memories of Light.

357 comments
John Skotnik
1. ShooneSprings
Day 34/T-10:
What did you do when the One Power failed, the thing you relied upon to raise you above common folk?
Day 35/T-9:
The Blight had consumed the Two Rivers.
Day 36/T-8:
"Run, Bela," Faile said. "If you've kept any strength back, now is the time to use it. Please. Run, girl. Run."
Day 37/T-7:
I AM THE ONLY HONESTY YOUR WORLD HAS EVER KNOWN.
Day 38/T-6:
Humankind did not have days remaining, but hours.
Day 39/T-5:
They seemed to be cracks into nothingness. They drew the light in, sucked it away. It was as if he was looking at fractures in the nature of reality itself.
Day 40/T-4:
"We'll remember those who fell, and we'll tell our children how we stood when the clouds turned black and the world started to die. We'll tell them we stood shoulder to shoulder, and there was just no space for the Shadow to squeeze through."
Day 41/T-3:
They stood at the edge of time itself, and still Thom Merrilin found a smile.
Day 42/T-2:
Loial, son of Arent son of Halan, had secretly always wanted to be hasty.
Day 43/T-1:
By the Light, he had a book to finish before he went!
Day 44/T-0:
Rise, and save the world.
Katie Frey
2. TalithaSedai
So, does anyone have today's memory yet? *stares at inbox*
Samuel Walker
3. lambada
Yep, just got it:

----
Bela whinnied as her hoof came down on Rands head.
----

Or did I just make that up?
Jean Hall
4. schmat22
#3 - LOL, really!

Still waiting. Another week and a day & then we'll know.
Charles Hopkins
5. charlesghopkins
I've forgotten, are we supposed to get a thread entry?

Sigh. 2012.01.08 can't come soon enough!!
Craig Jarvis
6. hawkido
I wonder with all the talk of dreams and waking from dreams and life is but a dream and we all must awake. I wonder if the series will have a similar to the 13th floor ending...
darren vickers
7. darvick
I wonder if someone started celabrating New Years early and forgot about todays Memory.
wes carlton
8. Dorman
I should like to hear one of your stories. perhaps you could tell me of the time you and your father visited Shara?

Wet and Winespring got this right; As per Chapt. 3 on NPR.

Nalaam is the corect answer! Well done!
Scott O
9. Scott O
@3 Well done, it really was about Bela.

"Run, Bela," Faile said. "If you've kept any strength back, now is the time to use it. Please. Run, girl. Run."
Rowland Hills
10. TickTockTick
"Run, Bela," Faile said. "If you've kept any strength back, now is the time to use it. Please. Run, girl. Run."
Evelynne Weakley
12. evelynne_r
Aw, a Bela cameo :o) And a flashback to when Rand first channelled
Ken England Jr
13. Vambram
Obviously, Faile is riding Bela and they are trying to either escape with their lives, OR Faile is trying to get somewhere with Bela as fast as the most famous horse in the WOT can carry her to rescue someone else.
William Lusk
14. willsilverwood
Considering Bela's history, starting out as Tam and Rand's plow horse general all around work horse, to Egwene's horse and then Siuan's favored ride, how did Faile end up riding her? And I hope she runs very fast, to out do a champion Kentucky race horse.
TW L
15. Shadow_Jak
Faile and Bela? Does Faile even know Bela?
Scott O
16. Moonstar
Am I the only one who's been saving all of these in a seperate file to make a list of where they come up when the book does come out?

Yay for Bela appearance!
Daniel Goss
17. Beren
I thought this one was fairly obvious. Faile is communing directly with the Creator.

Because Bela is the Creator.

(Shhh, don't explain the joke)

Shut up, nobody asked you.

(I'll shut up on the 8th, and not a bloody flaming second sooner.)

Fine, but for now stop trotting out old jokes about Bela being the Creator!

(Trotting -- that's funny!)

Stop it!

-Beren
Scott O
18. BenPatient
@17 That's obviously not real because IT ISN'T IN ALL CAPS, WHICH IS HOW CREATOR DOES INTERNAL MONOLOGUE.
Deborah Kay-Morgan
19. moondivatx
This is deep...very, very deep.
First: (as mentioned @15) Faile has not knowledge of Bela!
Second : Bela is in TalValon showing Siuan who's boss.
Third : Mother's Milk in a Cup!!...what are they running to or from!!
Fourth: How can Rand win without having Bela in the circle to use Calendor!(sp?)
Fifth: Bela the Creator??? I thought Beren was?? ;-D
T C
20. Freelancer
@18

We don't know that with certainty, given that people reject as certain that it was the Creator's voice at Tarwin's Gap. We know that it's true of the Dark One.

I'm convinced it was the Creator, others say neigh. No point in nagging about it.

Now, looking at this memory as we have many of the others, it isn't definite that Faile is actually riding Bela. She may have just watched Egwene, or Siuan, or someone else ride off on her, and the errand is so crucial that Faile is sending an encouraging thought along. Poor old carthorse has been around the block, though. Emond's Field to Baerlon; Shadar Logoth; across the Caralain Grass to Caemlyn; into the Ways to Shienar; into the Blight and back to Fal Dara; downriver to Tar Valon; into the Ways again to Falme; across country back to Tar Valon; across Southern Andor, Murandy, Altara to Salidar; back across parts of Altara and Murandy and right back to outside Tar Valon.
Melissa Spray
21. meowwl
@ #17...Are you reading the right author? I'd think that more a Diane Duane story thing! :-P

Maybe she's trying to carry an urgent message, possibly because travelling really was the weave that was forbidden, or that channelling has stopped working.
Sam Mickel
22. Samadai
Freelancer, Beren,
My aren't we a bunch of .......... well, I was going to say comedians, but comedians are funny....... ;)
Alice Arneson
23. Wetlandernw
Beren - Yes, I did highlight your post.

Beren & Freelancer - you guys crack me up!

BenPatient - But we wouldn't know from this, because it is Faile thinking. The CAPS LOCK would only be on if Bela was thinking or speaking.

lambada - too funny, that it did turn out to be about Bela!

I have no good guesses, other than what's already been said. Is someone departing the FoM in a big hurry? Or does Bela need to run from Tar Valon to the FoM to show them something's wrong? And why would Faile be there? Way, way too much absent context to guess anything serious about this one!
Dawn Boyall
24. deebee
lambada

you must be psychic!

Happy new year all
Scott O
25. Ela Ougosi
"Run, Bela," Faile said. "If you've kept any strength back, now is the time to use it. Please. Run, girl. Run." Faile wants Bela to run? Who does she think she is? Rand Al'thor? Let me guess, Perrin fell down a well...
Scott O
26. MartinCahn
I know you all beat me to but...

Faile?!!! Bela?!!!

Faile. Knows. Bela?!!!!!!??

Woah. (Oops, unintentional horse funny.)

On a more serious note, why in the world does Bela have to run now?
Erin Oliver
27. Nederin
This is from my PoV the best memory yet! Here's why:

1) The obvious: Bela is in it!
2) Faile (ha- I wrote "Failed" and had to re-type "Faile") has always been a "weak" character (we're always rescuing her...) She has promise and strength and yes she killed Masema but she's never been a heroine! Now, I don't really care what she and Bela are running to or from - what I care about is that Faile might rise to become heroine! Via Bela! Which would be super-appropriate... Rand changed when he and Bela carried Tam in the beginning (went from boy to man), Egwene changed when she rode Tel'aran'rhiod Bela from Cairhien to Salidar (girl became woman and Amyrlin Seat to boot!) and now... Faile finally kicks some ass and goes from so-so to outrageously killer via Bela! I love it no matter what!
Scott O
28. LK
I thought only wolves and men lived in TAR between reincarnations... maybe the creator should make an exception for Bela? I nominate her best supporting character (pun intended)
Scott O
29. Vamsi Sedai
I have a huge doubt regarding Demandred..In the Lord of Chaos, he tells graendal that events to the south have Demandred's hand and he warns demandred. But what is south of Illian. I am doing a reread and i am trying to guess who Demandred might be.....
Scott O
30. Ghotam
Faile & Bela may be my favourite memory yet :D
Sarah MacBeth
31. Aerie426
Nederin@27;
I disagree, Faile has always been a heroine in her own little way. She just seems less so when placed next to the awesomeness of the wolf king. He keeps trying to protect and rescue her all the time but generally she doesn't need it! She started fairly early too, when she arrived back at Emonds Field with troops to turn the tide of the battle with the trollocs.
I guess I've always kind of liked her. She was strong in a childish way - more stubborn than strong I suppose - but since Malden she's grown to be the partner Perrin deserves.
Jonathan Levy
32. JonathanLevy
I don't know about you guys, but I got a slightly longer extract than what you quoted:

--------------------------------------

"Run, Bela," Faile said. "If you've kept any strength back, now is the time to use it. Please. Run, girl. Run."

But Bela still stood there, turning her head around to gaze at Faile, with an all-too-human eye. How could a horse twist its head back so far?

"You know, I've always hated you, Faile".

The words were coming from Bela's mouth. "The way you treated Perrin. I liked it when you got spanked." The effects of the unravelling pattern had long since ceased to shock Faile, but this was by far the worst. "Pushing your way onto that ship. Calling yourself Mandarb." Fire seemed to flash in Bela's eyes, as a sneer rippled across her face, revealing sharply filed teeth. "I loved that stallion!"

Abruptly Faile realized that she was sliding down Bela's scaly back, but her grasping hands caught nothing and she landed on her rump in the mud.

"Then you let yourself get captured." The monster seemed ten spans high now, crouching over her malevolently. "You inflicted the Plotline of Doom on us". Hooves had become sharp claws, twitching in anticipation. "I had to read ten chapters about Sevanna. Sevanna!!"

Mottled red wings unfurled behind her as Bela threw her head back with a soul-tearing roar. Faile had just enough time to glimpse the mouth descending upon her, impossibly wide, before darkness took her.

---------------

Bela tossed the severed head into the air, lashing at it with her clubbed tail as it descended, sending it spinning into the distance. She never saw the mute horror in those sightless eyes, of a woman who wakes to find herself marooned on a desert island with only a thousand copies of Crossroads of Twilight to keep her company.

"Now where's Berelain?" she snarled, and took to the air.
Sean Dowell
33. qbe_64
Bela=Creator=Obvious.

The Blight Consumed the Two Rivers?!?!?!

That's like half the continent!!! ARGH!!! I've got so many work related things due January 15th! I'm going to get fired because I'm going to read the book instead of doing the work. Crap!
Scott O
34. Ghotam
JonathanLevy@32

Not Berelain, she's hot!

Nice work btw, barring inaccuracies like Bela not being with Perrin & Co. when he met Faile. I enjoyed reading that and I'm not even part of the Faile hate club.
Jonathan Levy
35. JonathanLevy
34. Ghotam

Bela knows about that not because she was present with Perrin, but because she had TDR in her saddlebags on the way to Tar Valon, and kept reading snippets when Egwene and Verin weren't looking.

:)
Jonathan Levy
36. JonathanLevy
Argh! Double post.
Martyna Berek
38. missbee
Happy New Year!
Loved everybody's comments :)

Wasn't there a twitter exchange where BS said he'd just written a (poignant ?) scene with Bela in it?
Is this it?

Edit: here's the exchange:

BRANDON SANDERSON
Just wrote a scene with Bela in it.
This scene is one that RJ left instruction for in his notes; it gave me shivers when reading.
Cameron Tucker
39. Loialson
@20 Freelancer
"I'm convinced it was the Creator, others say neigh. No point in nagging about it."
I see what you did there ;)
lake sidey
40. lakesidey
@32 JonathanLevy: Nice. But don't knock CoT, it can't help being the way it is - it has "Twilight" in its name! (Whoa, Bel(l)a and Twilight in one post. Coincidence...?)

@ 33. qbe_64: I know, right? I have some work starting on 9th which is going to be torture (or rather, which is going to be not done, more likely)

@37 Rajeev: So true! (and Gabbar Singh = Padan Fain, maybe?)

~lakesidey
Jonathan Levy
41. JonathanLevy
40.lakesidey

Maybe Bela will kill a Draghkar at the Last Battle... :)

Also, you have to wonder where Perrin is. The flavor of it suggests that he's not in this scene at all. Maybe he's been consumed by the midnight towers?
Andrew
42. Archangel000
I AM THE ONLY HONESTY YOUR WORLD HAS EVER KNOWN.


Well the Dark One is certainly humble is he not.
lake sidey
43. lakesidey
This one has to be the Father of Lies...

~lakesidey
Arghya Raihan
44. Umbar
@40 - No, no, Gabbar Singh is Moridin...
Daniel Goss
45. Beren
Yeah, this one's pretty obvious. Has to be the Dark One.

Or Narg.

"Narg no hurt."
and he didn't
"Narg smart!"
and he was
"Narg know some come back sometime."
and bonus points for the Stephen King reference, but it's 'sometimes they come back.'
You see? Honest!

-Beren
Scott O
46. MartinCahn
@42 and 43: Agreed; gotta be the DO. Could be talking to anyone, but probably Rand.
Dawn Boyall
47. deebee
JonathanLevy

I think Perrin is very much in this scene-wounded and strapped to Bala`s saddle?
Alice Arneson
49. Wetlandernw
Obviously either the DO or the Creator; best guess is the DO lying to Rand.

Also - Beren - I see what you did there. ;)
Scott O
50. Darth_Katie
I bet somebody (Rand, probs) just called the Dark One the Father of Lies, and that's his response.
Scott O
51. Ingwall
"Run, Bela," Faile said. "If you've kept any strength back, now is the time to use it. Please. Run, girl. Run."

Noro lim! Noro lim, Asfaloth!
Ron Garrison
53. Man-0-Manetheran
JonathanLevy @ 32:
"Then you let yourself get captured." The monster seemed ten spans high now, crouching over her malevolently. "You inflicted the Plotline of Doom on us". Hooves had become sharp claws, twitching in anticipation. "I had to read ten chapters about Sevanna. Sevanna!!"
Oh Creator, that’s funny. Thank you, thank you.

HONESTLY, since it’s all caps, it can only be the Creator or the Dark Lord. Since the Creator has been completely silent (as far as we can be sure), I say it’s ole Shaitan hisself. Tho’ it could be Charlton Heston. He was never all that humble.
Douglas Miller
54. douglas
My guess for this one is that a portion of the Last Battle is actually a philosophical debate between the Dark One and the Dragon. This line is the DO's response to Rand asking "But what of (list of virtues)?" They are discussing the reasons the DO should or should not be allowed to win, at a point where it's all up to a choice by Rand. Moridin may also be present.
Scott O
55. WildRoot
I AM THE ONLY HONESTY YOUR WORLD HAS EVER KNOWN Seriously, how did the editor's miss this? Don't they know it's impolite to SHOUT? The first character that came to mind was the DO. The question is who's he talking to? Rand or is Moridin having doubts?
Nadine L.
57. travyl
I agree about THE CAPS LOCK being the Dark One, but because I've been reading the comments on the last 3 memories without pause before reading this "memory", the first that came to mind was it being the Creator, i.e. Bela answering to Faile above ;)

Jonathan Levy @32: Thank you, that was fun, and like Ghotam (@34) I am not a Faile hater. - especially liked the Mandarb part.

Wetlander @49, thanks for the hint, I went right back to highlight Beren's post.
Scott O
58. Ashaman Marty
Doubt it DO sounds more like fain he is mad enough to claim that against rand
Scott O
59. humite
It is most definitely the Dark One and the context suggested by
Darth_Katie makes the most sense - Rand is fond of throwing about the Father of Lies accusation whenever evil tells him something he'd rather not hear. So I can easily see this as being the Dark One's reply when Rand finally throws that title back at the Dark One himself for the first time.

And my own personal take on this is that it IS completely true - from the DO's POV - and perhaps completely true, period - once you understand the context.

But in a larger sense, I'm just thrilled that it shows that we will have the DO's POV before the end!! I'd hoped for that.
Scott O
60. raconnel
I AM THE ONLY HONESTY YOUR WORLD HAS EVER KNOWN.
Obviously a guest appearance by Death from the diskworld. I sure never expected a Pratchett crossover storyline! :-P
Joel Salomon
61. jcsalomon
I AM THE ONLY HONESTY YOUR WORLD HAS EVER KNOWN.
All-caps means it’s the Dark One, whoever it was that was TALKING IN CAPS at Tarwin’s Gap (the Creator?), or Harry Potter circa Order of the Phoenix.
Ken England Jr
62. Vambram
Like most everyone else, I agree that today's Memories of Light is the Dark One talking to Rand al`Thor.
Jay Dauro
63. J.Dauro
Yesterday, we find that Bela will appear. Today we discover that we at least see the all caps voice again, with some hints that we may find out more. Did our Tor.com source choose some of the best quotes for the last week? Are we going to see hints of other cool stuff to come?
Scott O
64. pyrefire
happy new year everybody!

a year in wich we finally know the end.

this is the DO talking..or Egwene shouting her lungs out, defending the AS stands and trying to convince the world leaders at the FoM...but i dont think so.
Scott O
65. Kainos
So from reading chapter 3 on NPR we know for sure the answer to one of the dailies

"Perhaps that is wise," Mezar replied. "Yet you go out into it. Why not stay where it is warm? Nalaam, I should like to hear one of your stories. Perhaps you could tell me of the time your father and you visited Shara?"
Alice Arneson
66. Wetlandernw
Well, I was thinking that it had to be either the Creator or the Dark One, but I forgot about Death and Harry Potter... Seems the possibilities are opening up.
Scott O
67. Elytius
I don't think it could be the creator. The creator continues to create and doesn't pay attention to any particular world. Has to be the DO as he's the only person besides insane Rand who uses all caps.
darren vickers
68. darvick
Well 7 days to go , or 156 hours for me.

I also agree it is the DO ,
I Don't think the first Quote in THEOW was the CREATOR
He is the only Honest being in WOT !

Pure EVIL is very honest, we know what they are about !!

PURE EVIL !!!!!

I think Rand could be close to turning to the Dark Side here :-)
Hendrik de Wilde
69. Dancefever
I AM THE ONLY HONESTY YOUR WORLD HAS EVER KNOWN!

The humblest being on the net?

Dodging Nukes :-)
Scott O
70. Ghotam
What if, at the end of this, the Dark One comes off looking like he has a point. What if it all really is meaningless.
Scott O
71. MierinEronaile
It's evil, for sure. Only pure evil is honest to core - good has it's flaws. Nobody can be purely good while people can be pure evil.
Dawn Boyall
72. deebee
"I AM THE ONLY HONESTY YOUR WORLD HAS EVER KNOWN"

I`ve been rereading Leigh`s reread ( and finding it a great way to fill in time waiting for new Memories).

I came across this snippet in TDR where the Supergirls visit Verin in her rooms and she`s pondering a snippet from a book written just after the Breaking.

Verin blinked, very much as the owl had. “What does it say? It is a direct translation, mind, and reads almost like a bard reciting in High Chant. Listen. ‘Heart of the Dark. Ba’alzamon. Name hidden within name shrouded by name. Secret buried within secret cloaked by secret. Betrayer of Hope. Ishamael betrays all hope. Truth burns and sears. Hope fails before truth. A lie is our shield. Who can stand against the Heart of the Dark? Who can face the Betrayer of Hope? Soul of shadow, Soul of the Shadow, he is—’ ” She stopped with a sigh. “It ends there."

So I wondered if there`s a connection between the quote-which surely must be from the Dark One- and the lie mentioned here?
Heather Olver
73. Arila
Seriously, these memories have me practically frothing at the mouth. So many scenes I can't wait to read.

This latest quote from the dark one about being the only honesty does sound like the sort of insidious thing a pure-evil being would say.
T C
74. Freelancer
I cannot concur with thoughts that there can be pure evil but not pure good. It is precisely the other way around. With no exception I know of, works done which deserve the brand evil, are done with a desire in mind. That desire, in the thinking of the one doing it, is good to them. Deluded, misguided, insane though they may be, they believe that whatever purpose guides their actions has a desirable result. Evil is not evil for evil's sake. Good can easily be good for no other sake than being good.

The simplest form is a man who steals bread for his family. The act is wrong, but the motive is survival. A step down from that is one who robs another's money. They want the money to spend it, and though they are wrong to believe they deserve what is not theirs by right, the motive is again to have something they want. The same trail can be followed all the way down to Lucifer, who thought it good to aspire to the throne of Heaven, and for thinking so was cast out.

I don't say any of this to mitigate, trivialize or relativize the wicknedness done by those who can rightly be called evil. Only to be clear that even the most evil among men suppose themselves to have motives of value guiding their actions. This, in fact, is why I refute and despise moral relativism, for it can be used to excuse any evil in the name of "it seemed to me to be a good idea".

Now, in the WoT cosmos, perhaps the Dark One may be defined as pure evil. I cannot say that we've been shown even a glimmer of redeeming concept from him, but his lieutenants, the Forsaken, all have had virtue in their lives before turning to the Shadow. Again, not to mitigate or excuse their crimes, but that even the worst attempts to be wholly evil are no more than a failed, twisted understanding of what is good.

There is no darkness so deep that a single candle cannot banish it, and no light so weak that it fails to hold at bay all of darkness, for light has power and energy, and darkness has none.
Matthew Smith
75. Blocksmith1
Thanks to Shoonesprings at 1 for posting all the most recent week 6 quotes. I haven't read through all the comments, so if I repeat others' thoughts, my apologies.

In general, they all seem to indicate "bad" things happening.

The first referring to either the upcoming loss or potential loss of access/use of the One Power. Could be any channeler, although I am not sure all of the main characters would refer to non-channelers as "common folk". Further, I don't see the Kin, Aiel Wise Ones, or Windfinders saying this (same with damane), so my guess is either a long time Aes Sedai or an Asha'man with airs.

The second is just bad news indicating the blight is spreading and engulfed the Two Rivers. Hopefully just a "dream" of possibilities to come, but the certainty of the statement would imply it has happened.

The third, while showing Bela has returned to be the star animal character in the series that she is, would indicate Faile is in a precarious position...either running for her (their) lives or desperately trying to get somewhere to deliver VII (very important information).

And four, well, IMO, this is the DO himself addressing Rand trying to sway him to the DO's side. Somehow, the DO is trying to convince Rand that his freedom represents the way the world should be.

Anyway, those are my thoughts and they may or may not parrot what others are saying...wow, only six days left.
Keith Buttram
76. Wookster125
Humankind did not have days remaining, but hours.
lake sidey
77. lakesidey
Humankind did not have days remaining, but hours.

Ohk, sh*t getting real here. Good thing they didn't post this one on the 20th of December...

~lakesidey
Scott O
78. He who comes with a yawn
I've been thinking about this one a bit:

"What did you do when the One Power failed, the thing you relied upon to raise you above common folk"

I believe this is Suffa. The whole 'common folk' remark is what leads me to believe. Either that, or one of the Chosen is shielded/severed.
Craig Jarvis
79. hawkido
@74 Freelancer

Totally agree on the good and evil thing... Evil is an absence of good. just as cold is an absence of heat and darkness is an absence of light. there are limits as to how little of something you can have... there are no limits as to how much of a thing there can be.

Absolute Zero, Total darkness, pure evil. No limits as to how much heat you can have, how much light there can be, nor how much good can be done.

Evil in it's purest form would be without form or focus (chaotic), seeking to destroy everything. But the more it destroys the impurity level increases. Chaos theory shows that the most random and chaotic events when approaching infinity become a pattern.

it only takes the tiniest spark to illuminate darkness.
The smallest fraction of warmth to dispel absolute zero and start matter moving again. One accidental act of kindness to distupt pure evil.

I won't dive into the Lucifer comment... this is about WoT, not poor interpretations of the bible. Needless to say you are not alone in this belief

Lucifer is Adam, not satan, satan hasn't been cast into the lake of fire yet, that is in revelations, Adam was the light bearer, to shine the light of God on the world, and he failed and was cast out of paradise for it. Lucifer is only mentioned once in the whole bible, Jesus says that satan was a Liar, thief, and murder from the beginning, no falling there, already was made that way.
Daniel Sahlman
80. Lazlo
Interesting thought:

The quote about the One Power failing may have to do with some channeler (don't know who) coming into close proximity to Shaidar Haran. Just a thought
Scott O
81. He who comes with a yawn
@Lazlo I like that idea actually.
Scott O
82. redbronze
I believe it is neither the absence nor totality of good/ evil it is the balance which has to be restored how this is acomplished is that no one characture is either totally good, nor totally evil, the light balances the dark as the light cannot totally extinguish the dark, nor can the dark totally extinguish the light.

In death the wheel has found life, one life is changed into another. We see it here as while RJ could not complete this series and his death created a hole (darkness) BS was working towards his voice in fantasy and filled the hole left creating light. I feel this is where we will be coming in the end of ends or a new beginning really as one great work and world comes to an end another world builder is just beginning to flex muscles. Neither into the light or dark can one totally go. This is just random thoughts since reading the snippets of thoughts here as well as the influence of the quotes. One balanced upon the other...
Scott O
83. MartinCahn
Hours?!!

While I think the most likely answers are going to be either a) a dream sequence or b) an actual account of the final battle, I wonder... could this be a Forsaken POV assumption?

Only six days left and I don't have a clue how I'm going to finish the remaining books in my reread (in the middle of CoT right now). Arrgghh!
Walter Jones
84. wjones42
Humankind did not have days remaining, but hours.

Sounds to me like a look back - Loial writing in his book? We know he survived to write his book. This could be something from it?
Or, it could be the Dark One's POV and seeing how his trollocs, etc. are overrunning everywhere, even Sanchean.
Dawn Boyall
85. deebee
wjones42

I agree, this has the feel of someone at a distance from events. And "humankind"-sort of implies the narrator isn`t human?
T C
86. Freelancer
Not an interpretation, certainly not a "poor" one:

Isaiah 14:12-15
How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
The above remains valid unto itself whether you believe that Lucifer is Adam or Satan, up to a point. Adam was not cast out of Heaven, but out of Eden. I will leave it at that, and understand that regarding certain Scriptures we shall be unlikely to agree on this Earth.


redbronze @82

The "Balance" is not of good and evil, heaven forbid. Sticking to WoT, the balance represented by the ancient symbol of Aes Sedai, the veritable yin/yang, is as plain in the story as it can be: Male and Female working together though different; saidin/saidar cooperating though distinct. Each pushing the other forward, driving the Wheel. Any interpretation of the symbology which supposes the white vs black to represent good working with evil to keep things in motion is flawed. Likewise, good vs evil is not properly compared to order vs chaos, for those are states of activity which have no alignment, neither good nor evil, except in how they are employed by those with the ability to choose. And there, as wrote the bard, lies the rub. Too much of philosophy compartmentalizes actions in a way to excuse the actor. Good and evil are not present in the inanimate; they are the choices of those with free will, and the chooser will always be responsible for the consequences.
JAMES MCCLELLAN
87. ZEXXES
Reading that Verin passage gives me this itchy twitchy feeling that Moridin/Ishy is more than we think he is. I'm sure everyone has had the same feeling at one time or another, but something bugs me about him even now. Something that's right in front of our faces. Maybe he is Rand. Or was supposed to be. Maybe he lost his battle on the mountain. Maybe instead of running from the dark he embraced it. And now he but a shadow of himself, Shai'Tans avatar as Rand is the Creator's. Not just a Forsaken, but The Forsaken.

Bahhhh! I'm rambling...

Z
Matthew Smith
88. Blocksmith1
And the memories continue on a downward spiral.

I can see where it could be a description of events looking back from the future, but I see it as more likely a primary or secondary character not at Shayol Ghul realizing the end is very close...someone like Egwene, Sorilea, Cadsuane, etc.

Also, ZEXXES @ 87, I don't think you are too far off.
Deborah Kay-Morgan
89. moondivatx
Well this last book is certainly going to be action packed! Just hope these memories aren't like a movie trailer...filled with the best parts!
Woohoo!!! I've booked Wed-Fri of next week off for AMol and Fringe on Friday night.
May you always find water and shade.
The Moon Garten Diva
Scott O
90. Jason Wise One But Male
Going back through quotes/prophecies in WOT, this line stood out to me:

"Twice dawns the day when his blood is shed. Once for mourning, once for birth. Red on black, the Dragon's blood stains the rock of Shayol Ghul. In the Pit of Doom shall his blood free men from the Shadow."

Does this mean the final day of the battle is repeated? Perhaps because of so much True Power or balefire - that the Wheel gets reset?

Also, this fortelling by Nicola makes it seem as if Rand and his three girlfriends/wives exist past the Great Battle. This must be where the temper of the new coming age is set:

"The lion sword, the dedicated spear, she who sees beyond. Three on the boat, and he who is dead yet lives. The great battle done, but the world not done with battle. The land divided by the return, and the guardians balance the servants. The future teeters on the edge of a blade."

And, finally, the following is the passage from the book of Dark Prophecy that Moridin shows to Graendal. Things don't look good for Perrin living through book 14:
"Lo, it shall come upon the world that the prison of the Greatest One shall grow weak, like the limbs of those who crafted it. Once again, His glorious cloak shall smother the Pattern of all things, and the Great Lord shall stretch forth His hand to claim what is His. The rebellious nations shall be laid barren, their children caused to weep. There shall be none but Him, and those who have turned their eyes to His majesty.
In that day, when the One-Eyed Fool travels the halls of mourning, and the First Among Vermin lifts his hand to bring freedom to Him who will Destroy, the last days of the Fallen Blacksmith's pride shall come. Yea, and the Broken Wolf, the one whom Death has known, shall fall and be consumed by the Midnight Towers. And his destruction shall bring fear and sorrow to the hearts of men, and shall shake their very will itself.
And then shall the Lord of the Evening come. And He shall take our eyes, for our souls shall bow before Him, and he shall take our skin, for our flesh shall serve Him, and He shall take our lips, for only Him will we praise. And the Lord of the Evening shall face the Broken Champion, and shall spill his blood and bring us the Darkness so beautiful. Let the screams begin, O followers of the Shadow. Beg for your destruction!"

Is the 'First Amount Vermin' Rand or Moridin?
T C
91. Freelancer
Several things can be established by the opening lines of the dark prophecy. First, that it is indeed dark-side, based upon the reference of the dark one as the "Greatest One", whose prison shall grow weak. Second, that it isn't flawless prophecy, from the same line, since it suggests that "the limbs of those who crafted it" (the dark one's prison) are weak, implying a plurality of entities involved in the creation of the prison. This suggests that the prison was made by humans, which is not so. The Bore, and later the seven-sealed patch, were created by humans, but not the prison itself.

Following, the statement that the "First Among Vermin" will bring freedom to "Him who will Destroy", has to be referring to Rand, since he is the one who intends to break the Seals. We've never been given a statement by one of the Forsaken about taking an active hand in freeing the Dark One, only that they do expect him to break free.
darren vickers
92. darvick
Just as an FYI for people
@76 Blocksmith 1 and others
ShoonesSpring post at the top has two of week 5 Memories. The first 2 are from week 5 .
You can find lots of opinions on the first two Memories if you look at the week 5 thread.
darren vickers
93. darvick
As for todays Memory,Humankind did not have days
remaining ,but hours. I think that would have been perfect for next Monday, the day before the book comes out,
I will definately be counting the hours then.
Melissa Spray
94. meowwl
"Humankind did not have days remaining, but hours."

Uh oh...http://youtu.be/Z0GFRcFm-aY "It's the end of the world as we know it...And I feel fine!"
Eric Hughes
95. CireNaes
In Is. 14, the Hebrew title has an immediate application to the King of Babylon (perhaps comparing him to Venus or some other heavenly object). This would be the easiest contextual application. There could be a typological connection to Rev. 14 as the title "the bearer of light/Day Star/son of the Dawn" is associated with Satan. Regardless, the KJV made a functional choice in their translation rather than their traditional formal methodology.
Scott O
96. Jason Wise One But Male
Does balefire from the True Power not erase time?

When Rand killed Semirage with the True Power, Min's wounds from Rand choking her did not heal. She later wore a scarf. Even though Rand killed Semirage seconds or single digit minutes after breaking free.

However,
When Rand killed Rahvin with Saidar-Balefire, people Rahvin had killed much earlier became alive (like Avienda and Mat).

When Rand tried to killed Graendal but instead killed the one Graendal made do the compulsion, the compulsion disappeared. Again much later.


So, does the True Power Balefire not erase the past as does One Power based Balefire?
Daniel Goss
97. Beren
When Rand killed Rahvin, he was drawing as deeply as possible through a fairly strong angreal. When he destroyed Natrin's Barrow, he was drawing deeply on the most powerful sa'angreal in existence. He had no such enhancement when channelling at Semirage. Remember when he killed the darkhounds at Mat's door, channelling fairly normally he didn't manage to go back more than a couple of seconds. It's reasonable to assume that no more than those few seconds had elapsed between his release of Min and his introduction of Semirage to oblivion.

-Beren
JAMES MCCLELLAN
98. ZEXXES
Hmmmm, he may have something there. The question is (because I can't remember), did Rand use the True Power to make the Balefire used to kill Semirhage?

I think he did. So could that mean Semirhage is gone for all time? Could that be the way? Hmmmm.....gonna have to actually research something.

Z
Tricia Irish
99. Tektonica
Sorry to check in here a bit late....I am reading along, and dancing as fast as I can. I just wanted to make a comment about this quote:

"I AM THE ONLY HONESTY YOUR WORLD HAS EVER KNOWN"

That sounds like the pomposity of the DO, if you ask me....and it is in all caps. However....I just finished my reread of tEotW and I'm a bit confused.

In chapter 51, Against the Shadow, Rand is transported to Tarwins Gap where the battle rages between the Borderlanders and the Fades and Trollocs. He's channeling the pure Saidin from the Eye of the World and destroys most of the Evil troops and Someone speaks in his head, and says:

"IT IS NOT HERE. It was not Rand's thought, making his skull vibrate. I WILL TAKE NO PART. ONLY THE CHOSEN ONE CAN DO WHAT MUST BE DONE, IF HE WILL. Where? He did not want to say it,but he could not stop himself. Where?"

So three things....1. Is this the Creator speaking? I don't recall any other instance of him ever intervening in events, and it doesn't seem logical that the DO would be speaking in Rands head while Rand was channeling the Pure Saidin Light.
2.If it IS the Creator speaking, by the Chosen One, does he mean His Champion, Rand? Is he challenging Rand to become his Chosen One?
3. What is not here?

So if it's the Creator, I guess he speaks in All Caps too.

I'm sure this was dissected when the reread began, but if anyone has any thoughts on who it is speaking here, and what it means, I'd love to hear it.
JAMES MCCLELLAN
100. ZEXXES
@97 Beren

Seems too easy to offhand his question especially since you didn't answer it. To my knowledge there isn't a theory about a difference between balefire spawned from True Power or One Power. There might be a difference as far as the functional effects are concerned.


Z
Daniel Goss
101. Beren
We don't have a definitive answer to his question, which is why I didn't answer it. However, we have seen on several occasions that the One Power and the True Power versions of the same weaves do essentially the same thing. Travelling will get you where you want to go whether your power is light or dark, for example, though they do look different. The same 'weaves' do the same things, merely with different visuals / ancillary effects. Balefire is described as burning someone's thread out of the pattern. It is that burning which causes their previous actions to unravel, not the weave itself. Unless TP balefire is a completely different weave (in which case in would not be balefire) then it is reasonable to assume that it has the same basic effect -- that of burning someone's thread out of the pattern, with appropriate unravelling-related temporal effects. So I feel reasonably confident in saying that it probably has the same effect, and we merely didn't see it this time because of the amounts used. This is why I gave examples of previous situations where varying amounts of the Power were used to create balefire, with varying results.

So no, I did not 'offhand' his question, I merely didn't show all of my work. Sorry about that.

-Beren
Scott O
102. Skyfoo
@90. Jason Wise One But Male

Thanks for posting those prophesies. They are some of if not the most important that we know.

Questions From the Dark Prophecy:

-Is the one-eyed fool Matt?

-Is Perrin really going to die? Perhaps all three of the Ta'veren will die? (Didn't the Snakes tell Matt he would die and live again?) Somehow they will be returned to life, or the pattern, or reborn....somehow.....maybe.

-What is the 'hall of mourning?'

-The 'first of vermin' seems like Moridin to me. (ok. not a question.)
JAMES MCCLELLAN
103. ZEXXES
The Last Battle was not there. This was the Creator warning him of the future battle in Tower of Midnight. The Creator was challenging Rand to become the Chosen One. He was letting him know not to let them gode him into displays of power and that the Creator would not intervene personally until the assigned time, so don't eff everything up.


Z
Scott O
104. Tinkersword
This Dark prophecy has been bugging me for a long time but looking at the syntax and paragraphs, full stops etc. I see the following people identified:

One Eyed Fool - Mat (definitely)

First Among Vermin - Moridin or Fain (definitely not Rand - why would the Shadow refer to Rand as vermin, besides he's named later)

Him who will Destroy - DO (definitely - capitals on destroy and DO constantly bring referred to as He/Him)

Fallen Blacksmith - Perrin (definitely - no one else in the series is a blacksmith)
Broken Wolf - not Perrin (he was just refered to immediately previously) - possibly either Davrham (1st in line to Broken crown with a wolf head sigal), Rhodel (known as the Little Wolf) or even Elyas - my thoughts would be Bashere as his death would cause significant heartache.

Death - Moridin or the DO or just death itself?

Midnight Towers - one of the Forsaken (definitely - Egwene's dream)

Lord of the Evening - Moridin, not the DO as Lord of the Evening is the opposite to Lord of the Morning- Rand, and Rand is not the opposite of the DO.

Him/He - DO

Broken Champion - Rand (definitely)

Darkness - DO
Scott O
105. skyfoo
the Broken Wolf, the one whom Death has known

-Hopper? He's already dead.......dead in the world of dreams.....

I don't think Bashere or Iteralde are central enough characters to be this wolf.

On that note, question for WoT community: What other characters are definitely/clearly identified in the Dragon Prophecies besides Rand, Matt, and Perrin?

-We only learn recently (late in the series) that Matt and Perrin are mentioned:

Fortune rides like the sun on high with the fox that makes the ravens fly. Luck his soul, the lightning his eye, He snatches the moons from out of the sky.

When the Wolf King carries the hammer, thus are the final days known. when the Fox marries the raven, and the trumpets of battle are blown.

-Interestingly here Tuon is mentioned. I think she is the only one. I don't believe there is another solid reference to a WoT character in the Dragon prophecies. There's nothing on the girl Amerlyn or the fiesty healer or teh blue plotter who returns from the dead, etc.

-There is Nicola's prohecy of Rand's trio of feminin, but not in the grand or historic prophecies on the dragon.
T C
106. Freelancer
Yes, Rand was continuing to access the True Power when he balefired Semirhage and Elza. You cannot access that and saidar/saidin., and he wasn't going to take the time to release one and embrace the other, why should he? Those questions have been answered. But none of that matters.

Min's injury was caused directly by Rand, not Semirhage. Her death by balefire meant that anything she had done in the backward interval between the balefire striking her and it's temporal impact would be erased. Things done by Rand were not erased. Recall that memory of things done by someone killed by balefire remain, so do any indirect effects of their influence, and she was influencing Rand. The Compulsion vanished, but his memory of it, and the effect of any action he took under it, did not.

As to any difference between One Power and True Power balefire (or other weaves), it's probably reasonable to say that of course the substance is different, but the making and general usage of the weaves, if spun similarly, should be equivalent, with equivalent results. The same five elements are present for both.
T C
107. Freelancer
Ok, here's the best interview answer available for the question at hand. June, 1996 live chat with Robert Jordan on AOL (hat tip Theoryland):
Shosh001
Mr. Jordan, you've outdone yourself with A Crown of Swords. My question concerns the True Power. How is it distinguishable from the One Power?

Robert Jordan
It's fairly self-evident from the book. What can be done with the True Power is very similar to what can be done with the One Power. Except that where the One Power is drawn from the True Source and is the force that drives the Wheel of Time and powers the universe, the so-called True Power is drawn from the Dark One. There are limits in the same ways there are limits to the One Power. It would be very long if I went into it too much, but some of those limits and costs of drawing on the Dark One are shown in A Crown of Swords.
Deborah Kay-Morgan
108. moondivatx
@106 Freelancer
Ahh you meet me to it...been reading Prologue spoiler comments.

Rand was the one choking Min not Semirhage so her bruises remained after Rand BF'd Semirhage. She did not physically injury Min...Balefire by any means is still Balefire. (As far as I know...video at 11)
Jonathan Levy
109. JonathanLevy
74.Freelancer
the Forsaken, all have had virtue in their lives before turning to the Shadow.
We have a PoV from Graendal where she makes a distinction between those Forsaken who turned from virtue, and those who never did. Of Semirhage she thinks that she was corrupt to the core from the beginning.
The same trail can be followed all the way down
I believe the trail is blocked at some point. The man who beats his girlfriend to dominate her, the boy who pushes a smaller boy for the pleasurable sensation of power - these are pure Evil, though in different doses.

Yes, there are deeds which truly seem good to some and truly seem evil to others. But there are also deeds which seem evil to the one who does them, even if he fiercely clings to some excuse ("it's for her own good").

It was not a twisted desire to do good which produced an evil deed - it was a simple desire to do evil which produced a twisted excuse.

Re: Lucifer and Isaiah 14.

Isaiah 14:3-23 is a diatribe against the king of babylon (verse 4), prepared against the prophesized day of his destruction. It lauds his fall, revels in images of all the kings he has slain awaiting his arrival in the pit of hell, mocks his aspirations to reach heaven, in light of his unburied, rotting corpse, and eagerly anticipates the destruction of his land and the slaughter of his sons.

The application of verse 12 to Lucifer must ignore all the context of the chapter, and seems more to advance a theological point than a precise translation.

Which I guess is what 95.CireNaes already said.
Scott O
110. pyrefire
Aren't the Towers of Midnight supposed to be in Seanchan?
Scott O
111. Jason Wise One But Male
A prophecy and an Eelfin answer both indicate that Mat will die and live again. However, I think this has already happened. Rahvin killed Mat, Rand balefired Rahvin, Mat lived again.
Tricia Irish
112. Tektonica
Prophecies: Having just finished tEotW, I can tell you I was very surprised to find at least 4 references to Lan as "Wolflike"....looks like wolf, moves like a wolf, etc. His loss would certainly shake the Light side. (Not that I want him to die!!)
Benjamin Moldovan
113. benpmoldovan
I agree with Freelancer. Also, I've heard it said that even evil people are frequently not without SOME virtues - strength, courage, determination, intelligence, creativity, etc. Asmo, for example, was intelligent and creative, but not the strongest or most courageous.

Ben
JAMES MCCLELLAN
114. ZEXXES
@106,107 Freelancer

Excellent explanations on the events with regards to the Semirhage bale firing and the actions of Rand regarding Min's wounds.

My only dissent would be that we don't know yet whether both powers could be used at the same time, as to date, no one has tried in our witnessing. Nor has there been an explanation as to whether it's possible, though I suspect that you are correct lacking some vehicle to allow it to happen such as a ter'angreal or sa'angreal.


Z
Dawn Boyall
115. deebee
I`ve been thinking about the whole Wheel of Time concept now we`re approaching the end days.

I guess I`ve always assumed that if time is cyclical then whatever happens at the end of the Third Age will be what always happens at the end of every Third Age. The protagonists may believe that the Dark One must be defeated or he will break the Wheel and end it all. But logically they must always believe that. So either it is true, and so far the Light `s champion has always won, or it has never been a possibility, but the Dark One has been able to make everyone believe it in order to try to turn the Champion.

But a wheel can turn without bring static-the spokes go round and the wheel trundles off down the road towards an unknown destination. It might move very slowly and look like it`s revolving on the spot, but it gets to a new place in the end...The view from the next Third Age might not be the same at all.

I`m not sure where this thought is taking me but I`m wondering if the Wheel moves in mysterious ways...!

Roll on January 8th...
T C
116. Freelancer
JonathanLevy @109

There is little value in exploring the depths of human depravity for the sake of an argument, so I will not. But the fact remains that even in the most extreme examples, a person's action is motivated by a desire or an appetite which they find appealing to some aspect of their being. There is some pleasure or satisfaction in achieving an intended goal. However base, twisted, destructive those may be, the truth remains that evil is not evil for evil's sake, but a perverted idea of good. Good is not always good for its own sake, but can be and often is.



RE: One Power/True Power
I'm quite certain that it has been asked and answered, though I admit I haven't been able to unearth a quote, that you cannot embrace both Powers simultaneously. Even without an authorial quote, it can be inferred from what happens when Rand's and Moridin's balefire streams touch, that connections between the two disparate Powers are like crossing AC and DC current sources. Not compatible.
Eric Dean
117. Aerich
Day 39:

They seemed to be cracks into nothingness. They drew the light in, sucked it away. It was as if he was looking at fractures in the nature of reality itself.
Alice Arneson
119. Wetlandernw
If something is sucking light in and away, the nature of reality itself is indeed fractured. Rand at Shayol Ghul?
Craig Jarvis
120. hawkido
@ the Balefire questions and Min's neck...

Semi didn't put the marks on Min's neck... Rand did.

The Balefire'er cannot be affected by the balefire stream. Else you could undo the reason you were doing it in the first place. paradox. Don't know what would happen if they balefire themself.

So when Rand Blasted Semi out of the pattern, Rand still existed and all of his actions still happened after blasting Semi. Thus the marks were still on Min's neck. IT's not a OP TP discussion... just a what got zapped question.
lake sidey
121. lakesidey
They seemed to be cracks into nothingness. They drew the light in, sucked it away. It was as if he was looking at fractures in the nature of reality itself.

Anyone else finding the last few memories really depressing :)

~lakesidey
Scott O
122. Skyfoo
Here's something I haven't read anywhere yet -

In Hindu mythology and also in the Bible, the negative power, the dark side, Satan, the DO, etc, is spun out or created from the Light side. This dark side does function to balance the nature of creation, but only lower creation. The animating force that turns the Wheel and drives all life comes from the Light.

Light creates but also dissolves in periods of dissolution and Grand Dissolution in which creation is …… sucked up or withdrawn …..about every 100 billion years or so.

Thus dissolution comes not from a victory of the Dark, but by the will of the Light. This is represented at the end of the Narnia series.

How this affects the WoT, I don’t know. Except to say that RJ was aware of these mythologies.
……..
Question – why is it the Last Battle if there is more fighting after? The nature of humans is to fight. Think of our history, as long as there has been humans there has been strife. So why this idea of the Last Battle? Is it the last battle or isn’t it? Will the Seanchan take over by force after Rand seals the DO? Then how can that be called the Last Battle?

For it to be the Last Battle, we’ve got to turn the Wheel to the next age: a Golden Age. Humans have to drop their spears and swords. Obviously the Aiel are going to do this. But how? And, how in relation to the rest of creation dropping their swords?………………no idea.
Ron Garrison
123. Man-0-Manetheran
They seemed to be cracks into nothingness. They drew the light in, sucked it away. It was as if he was looking at fractures in the nature of reality itself.
Yep, Shayol Ghol or even the Dark One himself: I've always thought of the Dark One to be like a Black Hole. That is, like anti-matter — the opposite of creation (yet a part of all Creation). It sucks in everything around it.

OK, you astronomers out there: What happens when a Black Hole has pulled in so much energy, has become too dense to remain a Black Hole? Doesn't it give birth to a new star or galaxy? I really am asking this as a question. Do I have the gist of it right?
Daniel Sahlman
124. Lazlo
There is no known limit to the size of a black hole. Even supermassive black holes (at the center of galaxies and containing as much as billions of solar masses) seem near limitless in size capacity. Black holes don't explode after gathering too much material, they eventually evaporate (or so Hawking theorizes). When accreting material, it can emit radiation, but that isn't the black hole, its the material that is sinking into the black hole that emits radiation as it is compressed into the singularity. Black holes, if they aren't being fed, theoretically will evaporate (quantum effects, very complicated).
Scott O
125. iSpradlin
Could these cracks appear during the breaking of the seals perhaps wherever they're being broken? Like windows right into the bore...
Scott O
126. pieman
So if we've read the book can we comment on what the cracks are? Easily part of the best storyline of the book.
Andreas Vox
127. avox
@126

Of course not! But you may mail me the book.
Joel Salomon
128. jcsalomon
@126: My understanding is that these threads are for spoilers available to everybody, including those that need to be purchased; not for “real” spoilers such as you’re describing.
Scott O
129. pieman
What is your address?
Andreas Vox
130. avox
Send an email to avox at arcor dot de if you want to follow through :-)
It's in Germany, though. Amazon wants to fill my order on Jan. 15, you think you can beat that?
Scott O
131. pieman
@128 Gotcha. I'll keep my trap shut then

@130 Nope, can't beat it. I'm in Texas. Just happened to have a bookstore here who had a box and didn't live up to the release date like they were supposed to so I was gonna share the love with someone if they were close.
Scott O
133. silver97rwa
so...pieman...where in TX?? I'm in San Antonio...would love an early look!
Tabitha Lavis
134. HarleyPixie
They seemed to be cracks into nothingness. They drew the light in, sucked it away. It was as if he was looking at fractures in the nature of reality itself.

I've got it. Rand is really the Doctor. Alivia will fireball him or something and he's going to regenerate! Once again he'll have saved the earth.
Sydo Zandstra
135. Fiddler
Avox @130:

Really that late? I ordered at Amazon US, and my copy arrives at Jan 10. I live in The Netherlands...

ontopic: I think the last snippet is about looking at the Seals, before Rand breaks the last ones...
Chris Lough
136. TorChris
Thanks for keeping a lid on the outright spoilers, pieman. (And for that matter, anyone else who's gotten to read the book.)

We definitely understand the urge to want to talk about the momentous events in the book. (And we REALLY want to comment on some of the guesses about the Memories!) But jcsalomon@128 is correct, the site is definitely a no-spoiler zone.

Getting to read A Memory of Light is a very satisfying experience, one that simply can't be duplicated, and we wouldn't want to actually spoil that for anyone. :)
Scott O
137. Owen Kenney
I can't wait any longer to get this book and shut the door to everyone untill I finish reading it!!!!!!! I just redread the last four books to properly prep for this. It is going to be wonderfull almost as good as the day I got married.
Scott O
138. pieman
@133 About 5 hours from you. Sadly I just looked at shipping costs and it would cost as much to get to you on Tuesday as it would to just buy the book on Tuesday. Alas, if someone is in TYLER, TX you can let me know.

@136 Chris I think I'll take my discussions over to a more appropriate place. You're absolutely right about it being a satisfying experience in and of itself.
Walter Jones
139. wjones42
They seemed to be cracks into nothingness. They drew the light in, sucked it away. It was as if he was looking at fractures in the nature of reality itself.
Sounds like Min's vision where she saw he needed Mat and Perrin to be with him to be victorious. The DO's prison being sealed off for a full turn of the Wheel?
Andreas Vox
140. avox
Fiddler @ 135

I ordered at Amazon Europe. I think it's the UK version and Amazon adds a week to the predicted date because they don't trust the UK book distribution channels. For some reasons ordering books from UK takes much longer than from the US (even before Amazon). I recently ordered books by Amazon with a 3-5 weeks delivery estimate and they were able deliver within a week, so I still hope I may get AMoL in time for the weekend.
Sydo Zandstra
141. Fiddler
@Avox: I ordered through Amazon UK because I wanted the Michael Whelan cover for this one. Didn't care much for the last two Darryl Sweet ones, so didn't mind the 2 UK covers there.

Good luck in getting it early :)
Sharon E.
142. Sulin
@ pieman: I am in Dallas and could meet you halfway, cash in hand. (Yes I'm serious.)
JAMES MCCLELLAN
143. ZEXXES
It seems to me that those cracks are similar to the ones in Egwene's foretelling. You know, the one where Rand is seen cutting the ropes holding the cracked crystalline dome together.

Z
Dawn Boyall
144. deebee
Amazon UK reckon they'll dispatch on the 9th for delivery on the 11th,
Reckon I'll go to Waterstones first thing on 8th instead. If they can`t even send it out on the release date what do they expect!!

Pieman I'm so jealous :(

But hey, it must be tough keeping it quiet when you know what all this means.
Ian B
147. Greyfalconway
Does anybody know if walmart will have it up at midnight? I got tuesday off work but would hate to have to wait until 9 or 10 am to get started.

As an aside, I just spent about an hour calling the different bookstores within 100 miles of me trying to bribe clerks with no luck, apparently even the independent ones are taking the affidavits pretty seriously.

If anybody has a line on a copy feel free to PM me and let me know though, I can do shipping and such lol. I'm about 30 mins from Tampa.

@134 Yup, Rand is the 12th Doctor, Moridin is the Valeyard or however its spelt ;P
Ron Garrison
148. Man-0-Manetheran
Lazlo @ 124:
Thank you! That was very well explained. “Black holes, if they aren’t being fed, theoretically will evaporate.” So the Dark One can only cease to exist when he stops acquiring new souls! Ah Hah! ;-) Veddy Intereztink.
Walter Jones
149. wjones42
Hey,
Anyone near Rehoboth Beach, Delaware. BrowseAbout Books has had the book out for a week. I called to see when I could buy it and the person I talked to said it had been out since 12/26!
T C
150. Freelancer
M-o-M @123

A black hole would not be anti-matter. It is matter so dense that the resulting gravity does not permit even photons to escape. Also, it is in fact the collapsing mass (being a post-nova star's core imploding) which magnifies the gravity effect, so it becomes very twisted to consider its "size". Quantum theoreticians refer instead to the radius of the event horizon, or the extent of the gravitational anomaly.


Skyfoo,

The Bible never once suggests that evil, Satan, etc. is there to "balance" creation. Not even close.


All,

While there's nothing wrong with someone like pieman stating that he got his copy of the book early, it seems a little out-of-bounds to be using this particular forum to discuss ways to acquire it ahead of the published release date. Just saying.
Stephen Ruth
151. srr
@149 thanks for the tip i keep forgetting about them (i miss atlantic books, they used to hook me up too)
Scott O
152. linzaroon
Hey all,
If you got the book early, don't tell us about it. Waiting is at least half the fun. The hardest part of this is knowing that once I have read this book I will never, ever experience a 22 year infatuation with a world and the people in it the way I have with this one. I wish there were a way to make it last longer, not cut it short, even if only by a few days.
cheers,
Linz
Deborah Kay-Morgan
153. moondivatx
Cheers....Linz!!

@138 etc Pieman You are in my old stomping grounds!! Grew up in Huxley down on Toledo Bend Lake. Back when I lived in Bossier City, LA uses to do the Azalea 10K each spring. Still have family in Huxley and Gilmer, so I'm down there a couple times each year.
Tabitha Lavis
154. HarleyPixie
@147 - Haven't seen those yet, but reading about him sounds pretty close. lol!
Scott O
155. Jackets8
Anyone know of anywhere in the DC area that has released the book early???
Kartikeya
156. Kartikeyags
Hey, check out this great new (and I suppose the final) excerpt from AMoL that is posted at this link:
http://www.npr.org/2012/12/29/168075551/exclusive-first-read-a-memory-of-light-by-robert-jordan-and-brandon-sanderson

Can't wait!

@130: You lucky dog! :)
Scott O
157. BritishCanuck
pieman: I'm really tempted to make the drive out from Dallas, even though I have the book on order from amazon! I suppose it's only a few more days...
darren vickers
158. darvick
@ 150 Freelancer
I agree, don't get someone in trouble because you got lucky. Don't out the bookseller. We have few left as it is. Only 1 bookstore around here now when there used to be at least 6, 10 years ago :-(

@ 147 Greyfalconway
I like your idea. I get out of work at midnight on Monday ( also my birthday) will have to check it out.

As for getting the book early, I tried. Now I will just wait and enjoy the anticipation. WHAT A RUSH !!!!
Scott O
159. MisterM
At least in Western Germany, the book is now relatively widely available in bookstores (could be ordered 12/31). Amazon says Janaury 16th.
Scott O
160. Nandros
I ordered my copy from amazon with super fast, though it's kind of funny that the book it self costs only 2/3 of the delivery costs (+30€) but then again I don't think I could stand on waiting for those two weeks with regular delivery.
So 30€ well spent I guess.
Scott O
161. clusterflux
I took Tues, Weds, and Thurs off of work for this! I will probably finish the book sometime on Weds, but took Thurs off too since Fri-Sat is my weekend. 24 hours of vacation time used up for AMoL :D

I'm in the US and was able to order from Amazon with release date delivery guaranteed. If it doesn't come in on Jan 8th, I will run down to B&N and pick up a copy.

With all that said, if I could get my greedy little hands on the book early, I would run out and buy it right now.
Deborah Kay-Morgan
162. moondivatx
@ 161...I only work part time but Mon-Tue are regular wk days, so I've taken Wed, Thur, and Friday off. Sadly our Borders closed and other than a few used book sellers Wal Mart (I hope it's out on the 8th) or (on a good day) KMart are my only options without driving to TinkerAFB. Have ordered a signed copy that won't be here until later, so I'll just stop by Wally World after work and also stop for a great bottle of Pino Noir then head home to a warm fire and settle in for the read.

Also Fringe's last 3 episodes air the 11th and 18th so I've request off for that too!! Gotta see Walter give the observers a hair cut!!
Eric Dean
163. Aerich
Day 40:

"We'll remember those who fell, and we'll tell our children how we stood when the clouds turned black and the world started to die. We'll tell them we stood shoulder to shoulder, and there was just no space for the Shadow to squeeze through."

Nice quote. No clue who would say this though - probably a lesser character.
lake sidey
164. lakesidey
"We'll remember those who fell, and we'll tell our children how we stood when the clouds turned black and the world started to die. We'll tell them we stood shoulder to shoulder, and there was just no space for the Shadow to squeeze through."

~lakesidey
Scott O
166. JrLWoTsince1990
"We'll remember those who fell, and we'll tell our children how we stood when the clouds turned black and the world started to die. We'll tell them we stood shoulder to shoulder, and there was just no space for the Shadow to squeeze through."

First thought was "YES!" it looks like the force of light will win, unless this is a vision. Although I don't think it is a vision or a dream.

Next thought was who could have made this speech, my guess is the speech needed to come from a main character.

Rand wearing the Dragon's Mantle (but I don't think so). I kind of have a feeling that he will be "dead" for three days, before being revived, and will want to live in obscurity.
It could be Egwene or Elayne. I don't see this as being Matt, Perin or Avi. The words seem too formal for them.

I'm ruling out any of the Aiel, as the wording seems more like a wetlander, and I don't think it was a Seanchan either.
Matthew Smith
167. Blocksmith1
Today's memory sounds reminiscent of the scene described to Rand in Rhuidean where the Aiel (in the AOL) tried to remind an insane male Aes Sedai (not sure which) of who he was and tried singing to slow him down and allow others to escape...how they sang shoulder to shoulder as the male Aes Sedai killed them one by one.

That said, could this be a Tinker describing what their part will be in the last battle?

Edited for typos
Scott O
168. MartinCahn
Day 40: "We'll remember those who fell, and we'll tell our children how we stood when the clouds turned black and the world started to die. We'll tell them we stood shoulder to shoulder, and there was just no space for the Shadow to squeeze through."

That is both hopeful and sad all at the same time, since there will be "those who fell" but also "no space for the Shadow to squeeze through." This would appear to foreshadow (pun absolutely intended) that the Light will prevail, but at a cost. I'm a sucker for passages like this, where you get that epic feeling of a hard-fought victory.

Or... could it be one of our main characters rallying the forces of Light before the Last Battle is fought, or during it? And there I was feeling so good about this. Now, well, still hopeful but interpretation still leaves the final outcome unknown.

@161 and @162: Last night, I was in the middle of re-reading CoT and realized I had only had FOUR DAYS LEFT!! I don't know how I'm going to read the remaining books in time, but my AMoL copy is pre-ordered at my local bookstore and I'm picking it up Tuesday no matter what! I'll just have to read all that much faster. FTW Light!
Scott O
169. Jason Wise One But Male
I guess this may be a 'pre-battle' encouragement speech - but it seems like it is after. That leaves me a little deflated, as I was hoping to be able to read the book with at least some apprehension that the DO would win.
Charles Hopkins
170. charlesghopkins
My $.02=

It's either Rand trying to rally the troops in support of his plan to battle the DO and convince the rulers that he really does know what he is DOing.

Or, it is someone like Mat taking command of the Last Battle Troops and trying to inspire them to fight to the last drop of blood.
Scott O
171. Syl
Day 40 has the look of a last stand/facing a charge rallying speech. I don't think it's Perrin or Mat, but I could see this as one of the borderland monarchs to forces staring down a charge of shadowspawn.

Perhaps a rescue army sent to Tarwin's Gap, it seems to be the place of heroic stands.
Scott O
173. Seamus1602
Today's quote is so generic that it could fall anywhere. I like the ideas of it being a pre-SG inspirational speech, but my first idea was something different:

That this is, instead, part of either the opening or closing quote of the book. It could be the opening - it doesn't really tell us more than we make it to the 4th age and lose some Light-siders on the way, which is typical of the 4th age closing and opening quotes. It could be the ending quote, something written very soon after the last battle (a living historian recording events - Nesune?). I'm not sure I'm convinced that any of this is true, but it was my first thought.
T C
174. Freelancer
Aragorn encouraging the Gondormen at the Black Gate.

Bashere's finest moment? No way Mat talks like this, even in the Old Tongue. A bit pretentious if it's Rand. Or Lan. Might actually be Perrin, if it's one of the core group.
Deborah Kay-Morgan
175. moondivatx
"We'll remember those who fell, and we'll tell our children how we stood when the clouds turned black and the world started to die. We'll tell them we stood shoulder to shoulder, and there was just no space for the Shadow to squeeze through."

Shoulder to shoulder..sounds more like a male than a female speaking.
Maybe this is Olver's fifteen minutes of fame! Nah..
Sounds like Loial reading from his book at the end like he did at the beginning of ToM.
Rajesh Vaidya
176. Buddhacat
Logain, rallying the Black Tower to the last battle.
Scott O
177. Tai'shar Westeros
Love this quote. Gave me chills to read it!

Anyone have any idea what time to expect the book to arrive if purchased from Amazon to be delivered on release day?
Douglas Miller
178. douglas
This one reminds me quite strongly of the Saint Crispin's Day speech from Shakespeare's Henry V. It's exactly the sort of thing a war leader might shout to his entire army before a major critical battle, acknowledging that many of them will die but predicting a proud and unforgettable victory to inspire high morale.

I suppose it could be an after action report about a battle already won, but there's too much emphasis on predicted future actions to fit well with that.
Scott O
179. Owen Kenney
I was thinking Loial as well it would be something he might say as the Olger joint the humans in the final battle.
Scott O
180. Sneezing Muchacho
I'm thinking Galad...before the Charge of the Light Brigade.
Deborah Kay-Morgan
181. moondivatx
@180....no "It's the right thing to do" so it's not Galad.
Scott O
182. Dpweise
Perhaps Rand at FOM or I could see it being Egwene trying to rally the troops after it Rand dies and all hope is lost.
Also, why do so many people have the hits for Logain? This is Rands story. As well as the other main players. Logain is a 3rd or 4th tier player at best. Besides, he's kind of a tool.
Deborah Kay-Morgan
183. moondivatx
@182...Min saw "glory" in his viewing...we're just waiting for it.
Scott O
184. pyrefire
A bit wordy but it could be Lan..

Why o why didn't i start the books reading in english?

a few weeks more is nothing compared with the time i am already waiting i guess....nah gonna buy in english as well
Scott O
185. pieman
Someone claimed the copy. Apparently someone that I work with reads WOT and does the daily memories and I didn't know it. They were talking about someone here in Tyler who had it and that turned out to be me. Sorry to anyone who is disappointed.

@Freelancer Yeah, you're probably right about this not being the forum for it. Excitement got the better of me. I'm bowing out at this point except to possibly point out my favorite theories (or ones I had before I read the book...maybe).

@moondiva If you're in the area anytime soon let me know. I'll buy the coffee if you want to sit around and discuss the book with me! Although truthfully I'll probably be off the TOR discussion forums once the memories have dried up. I don't really do forums as a general rule.

@everyone It's been awesome sharing and theorizing with you. I'm a little sad in some ways that I can't really participate in this for the next few days. However, the book was worth it! Enjoy the theories and keep 'em coming until the book is out. I am enjoying them immensely!
Deborah Kay-Morgan
186. moondivatx
@ 185 pieman...planning a trip around Mother's Day. So excited just purchased my Badge for JordanCon!!! I've not really done a lot of comments on the threads, started as something to pass the time and how after "meeting" some of the others it's fun to read their views.
Find me on FB and maybe we can share a cup in May.
Scott O
187. pieman
@moondivatx I'll check it out when I get home. No FB here at work.
Scott O
188. Tektonica
It could be something a Bard might say as he composes his Epic song about the LB. I'm looking at you, Thom.
Scott O
189. Tamyrlin79
Re: day 40:

I don't think this is a pre-attack rallying speech. It uses the past tense "fell", meaning people who've already died. If it were prior to battle, it would say, "We'll remember those who fall...."

Now, it COULD be a MID-battle rallying speech, after some people have had a chance to get killed, but I don't think it is before the battle is joined.
Scott O
190. al'Euthard
You can speak about future actions in past tense. In the future there will be those who fall. In the future we will speak highly of those who fell in the battle we fought that hasn't occurred yet but will occur by the time we speak of those who fell.
Scott O
191. Reader of Words
@177

I preordered TGS from Amazon 2 years ago and it arrived the day before the release via UPS. That may have been a fluke, but it looks like they try to err on the side of caution to habe it arrive early rather than late.
Scott O
192. katofthebrownajah
@152. linzaroon
Thank you for that. This is exactly how I feel too. I know I'm going to have to struggle between rushing to finish the story, and dragging my feet because I don't want to finish reading a series of >4 million words and 23 years of my life!
Scott O
193. AndrewB
Day 40:
"We'll remember those who fell, and we'll tell our children how we stood when the clouds turned black and the world started to die. We'll tell them we stood shoulder to shoulder, and there was just no space for the Shadow to squeeze through."

My guess: William Wallace er Rodel.

Thanks for reading my musings,
Andrew B
Rajesh Vaidya
194. Buddhacat
@189: The reference to those who "fell" in fact strengthens the case for Logain - he is rallying the light side victors of the Battle of the Black Tower to fight the next one, the Last Battle. And saying the Shadow will find to way in.
Aimee Hand
195. achand94
I think this a rallying speech from Elayne. Seems like I saw something somewhere talking about how she gives a great war speech but I can't find it now.
JAMES MCCLELLAN
196. ZEXXES
Nice speech. It's Perrin. So says I. I also say the Redskins are gonna whip some Seanchan butt Sunday.


Z
Alice Arneson
197. Wetlandernw
It sounds very Borderlander to me - definitely not Lan, but a Borderlander. We know there will be a chapter with a boatload of POVs in it, and IIRC there were at least hints that it will be a major Last Battle chapter. My guess is it's one of those - some third- or fourth-tier character, maybe some random person we haven't even met yet, or someone like the farmer or the smith from the TGS prologue.

If it's not a Borderlander, I'd go with either Aiel (possibly gai'shain) or Tinker.
Walter Jones
198. wjones42
"We'll remember those who fell, and we'll tell our children how we stood when the clouds turned black and the world started to die. We'll tell them we stood shoulder to shoulder, and there was just no space for the Shadow to squeeze through."
I thought Thom at first; but, it's not lyrical enough for the Bard. I think it might be Loial or Bashere maybe.
Could someone help me? I remember a viewing by Min where Logain was covered with glory and standing on a black stone. I can't find where it is. The reason I'm worrying over it is I think she said there was something wrong with his eyes. Maybe he gets turned and then turns back?
Sharon E.
199. Sulin
Re day 40: I think it's either Logain or Elayne.

@pieman- if you're ever in the DFW area, we should get a group together to discuss AMOL over coffee. I know several others who would come! :) I'm also on FB in the WoT Re-Read group. :)

SulinoftheIvegotmycopyreservedandthedayoffandTuesdayjustcantgetherefastenoughAiel
T C
200. Freelancer
Hmm. Logain? That has merit. He can be grandiose enough to make a pronouncement of that kind.


Owen Kenney @179

I cannot credit this being Loial. He wouldn't so easily reference himself. When he wrote about him speaking before the Stump, yes, but in a scenario like this, he always considers everyone other than himself heroic.


wjones42 @198

No, Min never has something about Logain's eyes that I can find. Here are the chapter locations of each time Logain's viewing is mentioned. Always the flaring gold and blue halo, always referencing glory and power to come (via encyclopaedia-wot):

TSR 17
TSR 47
TFoH 1
CoT 24
KoD 18
Alice Arneson
201. Wetlandernw
wjones42 @198 - You're probably thinking of Egwene's Dreaming in ACoS, Ch 10:
Logain, laughing, stepped across something on the ground and mounted a black stone; when she looked down, she thought it was Rand's body he had stepped over, laid out on a funeral bier with his hands crossed at his breast, but when she touched his face, it broke apart like a paper puppet.
Neither this, nor the "power and glory to come" viewings of Min's listed by Freelancer, have clearly been fulfilled yet. Should be coming soon...

Those are the only prophetic things that specifically talk about Logain.
Ian B
202. Greyfalconway
I got the book! I'm going to shut myself away from everyone now, but before I go I wanted to ask others that have it early; my copy doesn't have a glossary, it just ends after the epilogue on page 909, is that an error or are they all like that?
Alice Arneson
203. Wetlandernw
Greyfalconway @202 - AMoL doesn't have a glossary. I don't remember where I read that, but it's not an error.
darren vickers
204. darvick
They probanly ran out of space. I just saw that AMOL is around 60 pages longer than TOM is with the glossary.
darren vickers
205. darvick
AMOL 912 pages and TOM + glossary is 861 pages. So 51 pages longer.
Scott O
206. pieman
@Sulin That sounds like a blast :-)
Scott O
207. Soulpaen
"We stould shoulder to shoulder" This sounds to me like it could be the tinkers... there is not an explicit reference to fighting, and sounds as if the shadow had to pass by/through them.
Cameron Tucker
208. Loialson
As others mentioned, this sounds much like the Da'shain Aiel with the Mad male Aes Sedai mentioned earlier in the books.

I know this may be harping a (possibly) done-to-death theory by now, but what if this was the Jenn telling this? Assuming they'd resurface for Tarmon Gaidon.
Scott O
209. JARHuygebaert
Is there someone from Belgium who already got the book?
T C
210. Freelancer
"Do you know what happened to the Aiel at Tzora?" He nodded, and she sighed, reaching out to smooth his short hair as if he were a child. "Of course you do. You Sa'shain have more courage than. . . . Ten thousand Aiel linking arms and singing, trying to remind a madman of who they were and who he had been, trying to turn him with their bodies and a song."
~ TSR Ch26, The Dedicated

Two things about this. First, the Da'Shain, the Aiel of that age, would not want a proud story made of anything they did. Second, warriors who tell a story about battle almost universally avoid gory details, except among those who have seen it. This would be a common way of relating the fighting to an uninitiated audience; saying that they stood their ground and refused the enemy's advances. Other warriors know the pain, the bloody and torn bodies, the screams of the injured and dying, which those antiseptic words represent, while shielding from that harsh truth those who needn't be scarred by it.

These aren't the words of a Tinker, nor anyone else who follows the Way of the Leaf. These are a warrior's words.
Maiane Bakroeva
211. Isilel
IMHO, this is Egwene speaking. She is being set up as the uniting figure of non-Seanchan Randland and also as a counter-point to Latra. This is also very much her style of speaking. Elayne is also possible, but less likely, IMHO.
In any case I think that it is a woman... Hence empathis on defense (standing) rather than offense...
Henry Loose
212. schrodinger
"We'll remember those who fell, and we'll tell our children how we stood when the clouds turned black and the world started to die. We'll tell them we stood shoulder to shoulder, and there was just no space for the Shadow to squeeze through."

Sounds like somebody's pregame speech. I'd guess Perrin based on the fact that Rand wouldn't need to make a speech, he'd just show up and everybody would move in the direction he needed them to go, and Mat would probably just say "Let's get this bloody well over with". Perrin also fits because of the "remember those who fell" bit. Rand has his list, but that's very personal. Perrin is the one who has had difficulty leading in the past because he couldn't get over the fact that he was responsible for people who died. He has gotten over it and recognizes that you fight for the living and remember the dead later.
Tricia Irish
213. Tektonica
You know, this could be any random soldier, talking to his buddies in the line, giving them strength,resolve and purpose. Or maybe it's one of Tam's Moments of Awesome. Not every quote has to come from one of our heros. All who fight the DO are heros, in my book.
Scott O
214. gcnewton54
Because of some of the earlier questions I went back and read the Prologue and the last several chapters of The Eye of the World, which raised a bunch of questions in my mind. First, where is the Hall of the Servants. I had thought that it was destroyed by the creation of Dragonmount. But the Prologue is clear: LTT travels to a very uninhabitated area before doing what he did to create Dragonmount. Of course there was since the Breaking, and it has been several thousand years. Still, does anyone have any thoughts about this?
Cameron Tucker
215. Loialson
@214. gcnewton54

I don't believe we know where the Hall of the Servants was. We know very little about topography from that age, though it probably wouldn't help since the Breaking changed the shape of the world completely.


I suspect it formulated (in essence) a similar role to the Hall of the Tower; as in gathering elected officials for some purpose or other regarding Aes Sedai (and perhaps their laws?).

It could have been an actual place and a role as a governmental body (like the Amyrlin seat is both a throne and the person filling it as a ruler).
Scott O
216. Firemyst
And as they stood shoulder to shoulder.....someone began to sing, voices were raised and even though some didn't understand the words all assembled joined in singing. "THE SONG"! With this song of happiness, joy and rebirth, and unity the DO couldn't over come the strength of it as everyone gathered raised the song. :) (Hey we all are grasping at straws here anyway, may as not be that one)
Scott O
217. Beslan
They stood at the edge of time itself, and still Thom Merrilin found a smile.

Yes Thom is still in the action.
Tricia Irish
218. Tektonica
But who is he standing with? Moraine? Everyone?
Scott O
219. GaulBainChiadsittninatree
I think that this memory is of Thom and Moraine?(not with Rand anymore perhaps) at the conclusion of the LB in more of a spectator role. I hope it is something positive since he is smiling.
Alice Arneson
220. Wetlandernw
@214 - According to the Ogier histories, the Hall of the Servants was razed before Lews Therin & the Hundred Companions sealed the Bore.

ETA - I think today's memory is Moiraine's POV.

And we only have two more Memories to go.
Ron Garrison
221. Man-0-Manetheran
From the Tar Valon Library:
Paaran Disen: A city before the Breaking of the World. It was the greatest city of the Age of Legends. Paaran Disen was the location of the Hall of Servants, and is where Lews Therin Telamon defeated Ishamael.
Scott O
222. Tamyrlin79
@ 221, Thanks for the text. I was about to post that I thought the Hall of Servants was located in Paaren Disen, but didn't have any text source to prove it at hand. I know that Paaren Disen was still around when the breaking began from Jonai's POV in the Wayback ter'angreal, but that doesn't mean that the actual building containing the Hall wasn't destroyed /razed prior to the Breaking during the War of Power, which it apparently was according to the Ogier histories.
Kerwin Miller
223. tamyrlink
@222 The Hall of Servants was razed but it wasn't destroyed. The Aiel from the Wayback ter'angreal went there in TSR


and im so jealous some people got it already!
Alice Arneson
224. Wetlandernw
So either there is a continuity error, or the Ogier history is wrong, or "the Hall of the Servants" was used in two different ways (perhaps used to refer to both the primary meeting place itself, and to the larger building in which it was housed. Or it was rebuilt really fast, between the Strike and the major effects of the Breaking.

You can't "raze" something without destroying it. Unlike "decimated" which literally means to kill one in ten but is often used to indicate near-total destruction, "raze" actually means to level or completely destroy something (usually a building or a city). If Be'lal and those with him razed the Hall of the Servants, as the Ogier history indicates, either it was promptly rebuilt or they only destroyed the actual meeting place, leaving some part of the larger building intact.

Or it's a continuity error when Jonai enters "the Hall of the Servants" to meet Solinda Sedai just prior to the Aiel leaving Paaren Disen. In any case, back to the original comment, Lews Therin didn't destroy it when he formed Dragonmount. Not the same place.
Henry Loose
225. schrodinger
I think the question of where the Hall of Servants was located is a very interesting one. The best information we have comes from the Wayback ter'angreal. There is only one description of the Hall, and that is of the "great columned entrance", so its physical shape is not really useful (even if it were fully given, a building's shape changes so many times over the course of 3000 years that it can be hardly recognizable, if they manage to survive at all).

The best piece of evidence to indicate a possible location for the Hall is its contents. Jonai notices Callandor on the table in the room. It is not, as of yet, in its final resting position, "hanging hilt down in midair" as it is in TDR. Jonai dismisses it as unimportant and focuses on his conversation. As he is leaving, he overhears more of the conversation that was going on when he entered, which went as follows:
'Can we trust Kodam and his fellows, Solinda?'
'We must, Oselle. They are young and inexperienced, but barely touched by the taint, and.... And we have no choice.'
'Then we will do what we must. The sword must wait. Someshta, we have a task for the last of the Nym, if you will do it. We have asked too much of you; now we must ask more...'
They then go on to presumably create the Eye of the World and are all presumably killed doing so (I say presumably becasue I don't have information to the contrary, but remember reading it somewhere... maybe the BBoBA?). The question is: If they died before dealing with Callandor, how did it come to its present orientation, and if somebody else moved it, how far did they move it, if it moved at all? The Aes Sedai were not in one of the fancier rooms of the Hall, but in an unadorned one for this conversation, so its surroundings have obviously changed. This leaves us with a couple of possibilities:

The Hall was razed and the landscape changed. The Stone of Tear was built up around Callandor when it was found.

The Aes Sedai put the sword in stasis before they left, meaning to come back and do something with it, but never returning. the Hall of Servants became the Heart of the Stone and the rest of it was built around it.

An Aes Sedai other than these Aes Sedai (or an Aes Sedai that survived the making) moved Callandor after the creation of the Eye of the World and the location of the Hall of Servants is lost to time.

Personally, I like the idea that the Hall of Servants became the Heart of the Stone. This is similar to what has happened in Rome with Imperial and Republican buildings that range from 1500-2500 years old and are now smaller parts of more modern Renaissance and Baroque buildings.
Henry Loose
226. schrodinger
The Curse of the Double Post
Ron Garrison
227. Man-0-Manetheran
schrodinger @ 225:
"They then go on to presumably create the Eye of the World and are all presumably killed doing so (I say presumably because I don't have information to the contrary, but remember reading it somewhere... maybe the BBoBA?)."
It is in tEotW which I just finished re-reading. The Green Man states it to the group. Fancy you mentioning Callandor though:
"His sword was in his hand. Not the heron-mark blade, but a blade of light, a blade of the Light. Even as he raised it, a fiery white bolt shot from the point, as if the blade itself had reached out. It touched the nearest Fade, and blinding canescence filled the chamber, shining through the Halfmen like a candle through paper, burning through them, blinding his eyes to the scene. . . .
"The flash faded, and he was alone in the chamber with Ba'alzamon. Ba'alzamon's eyes burned lie the Pit of Doom, but he shied back from the sword as if it truly were the Light itself. 'Fool! You will destroy yourself! You cannot wield it so, not yet! Not until I teach you!'
'It is ended,' Rand said, and he swung the sword at Ba'alzamon's black cord.
Ba'alzamon screamed as the sword fell, screamed till the stone walls trembled, and the endless howl redoubled as the blade of Light severed the cord."
Henry Loose
228. schrodinger
M-o-M @227

I always assumed that the sword Rand wielded in that scene was a version of his power blade of fire, not Callandor.
Alice Arneson
229. Wetlandernw
@227 & 228 - Whether it really was, or not, it looks like Ishamael thought it was the real thing.
Maiane Bakroeva
230. Isilel
Wetlandernw @224:
Or it was rebuilt really fast, between the Strike and the major effects of the Breaking.
Wouldn't have had to be that quick, actually. IIRC, there are at least 40 years between the Sealing (when Jonai's father was 16) and the Aiel leaving Paaran Disen. Not to mention that the Hall could have been just moved into another, already existing building.
Or maybe every city/region had it's own Hall and then there was a Supreme Hall, so to speak, that was destroyed? The building housing it, I mean.
Scott O
231. Edd
@177 and 191
I have pre-ordered the book from Amazon, but as of today, it hasn't shipped. Other 2 day shippings that arrive on the same day have shipped. I am wondering if I will get it or should just invest in another book so I can get it on that day for sure.
If I was adventours enough I would go to Provo Monday night and get it there (15 miles away). But it is cold ;)
Scott O
232. Dpweise
Walmart must not care about the release date. I found the book in Princeton NJ
Scott O
233. clusterfluxx
@231 I also selected 2 day shipping on my Amazon order, which was the option tagged with "release date delivery". Mine hasn't shipped either but it still shows as 2 day shipping and guaranteed to arrive on the 8th. I wonder if they will just ship it out overnight on Monday.
Scott O
234. xFieldTech
Also found it on the shelf at the Walmart in Biddeford, Maine. Reading it as I write this!
darren vickers
235. darvick
Walmart in Flint ,Mi. seems to care, because I checked, also Meijers and K-mart , even Barnes and Noble :-)
Scott O
237. Skyfoo
They stood at the edge of time itself, and still Thom Merrilin found a smile.

This is an interesting quote for reasons other than who said it and to whom (seriously one of the lamest topics for discussion.) I find it interesting because TIME was one of the main ideas RJ explored - What is Time when the universe is cyclical/spherical rather than linear? How do humans relate/describe beyond time when they are bound within/under Time? How did RJ do this? My guess is he based his ideas on other ancient text, like Kabir’s ‘The Ocean of Love.’

In MoL, BS has said that he played with the ideas of gateways and Tel'aran'rhiod. And, remember the scene of Moghedien explaining how traveling works? She talks about folding the pattern and making an exact replica of two places. Also Moridin travels with the True Power by boring through/ripping the pattern. If the pattern is time, how does this affect the pattern? And, how does the unraveling of time/the pattern affect these weaves?

Here’s the quote I want to throw in to spice it up – In tGH, after the Horn has been sounded, Rand tells the assembled heroes to 'hurry there isn’t much Time.' Birgitte tells Rand, “Time, we have all of Time.”

I’m not presenting any answers. I just think this notion of Time is fundamental to the WoT. Who knows? I’m off to Walmart!
Deborah Kay-Morgan
238. moondivatx
Well the series is called "The Wheel of Time."
Good post Skyfoo!
Deborah Kay-Morgan
239. moondivatx
I'm off to Tel'aran'rhiod to visit all bookstores and balefire any early copies on their shelves! Also if you have an early copy and it suddenly turns into Harry Potter and the Fades....I know nothing! ;-D
T C
240. Freelancer
The scene quoted by Man-o-Manetheran @227 cannot involve Callandor, nor does Ishamael make such a presumption. The inferring statement is"
"Fool! You will destroy yourself! You cannot wield it so, not yet! Not until I teach you!"
Ishamael is not speaking of Rand wielding Callandor, but saidin itself. Rand has just had his contest with Aginor, and the battle at Tarwin's Gap, then up the stairs into Ba'alzamon's domain. He is still drawing on the Eye, and this is what Ishamael is telling him that he isn't ready to handle.

But always interesting to be reminded that Ishamael had been planning to teach him.
T C
241. Freelancer
Skyfoo,

The Pattern is not time. The Wheel represents time, and it weaves the Pattern, which is the reality of existence as experienced by those bound within it.

For the quote, if the Conflict is at a tipping point, and may yet be won by the shadow, it can be said that, since the Dark One's objective is to destroy the Wheel, those bearing witness to the struggle could say that they stood at the edge of time itself. While the norm in the WoT cosmos is circular time, this event would disrupt the norm, and put a stop to the movement of time.
Scott O
242. Skyfoo
-Thanks Moondivatx.

-My quest to Walmart was unsuccessful. There was no book and the place was crawling with Shadowspawn!!! I needed a shocklance, bad!

-Hi Freelancer. Good explanation of the diff between the Wheel and Experience. You can't have one without the other...........or can you? Is not the Light beyond Time?

-Here's something to melt your melon - Hindu mythology tells us of time as a wheel, the great circle of creation. But this is not a positive thing. In fact the souls are stuck in this creation incarnating higher and lower based on their past experience (Karma.) The only way to escape this wheel is to meet some great sage who has gone beyond it (Buddha, Jesus, etc.) This sage can take a soul beyond time to Light.

Here's the melting notion - Balefire is described over and over as beautiful, purifying, and white light. Could Balefire be a way of escaping time? The DO tells Demandred that Ravin is beyond transmigration as he is 'beyond time.' Balefire seems to have a powerfully negative effect on the pattern, but what if the pattern is trap?.........who knows?
Scott O
243. JARHuygebaert
I pre-ordered aMoL a few days back on Amazon.co.uk; it will not be delivred on the 8 of January, but a few days later. This is a normal procedure, but I tought it would be delivred on the 8th. Will someone else get it on the 8th?
Jonathan Levy
244. JonathanLevy
re: Hall of servants.

I remember investigating this a bit, and making a few posts, but I can't remember in which thread. My conclusion was that there was a continuity error, because Be'lal is mentioned by Loial as razing the hall of servants (must be before the Sealing), but on the other hand we have Aiel memories from the wayback machine of standing in the Hall of Servants during the Breaking.

Harmonizing interpretations were brought forth (e.g. 'razing' a building somehow did not involve its destruction, a new Hall was chosen or built) but I did not find them convincing.
Scott O
245. clusterflux
Moondivatx @239

Nice try, but balefiring the early copies in TAR is not going to have any effect on the ones in the waking world ;)
Scott O
246. Jeremyalthor
Hullo Woterians, I was wondering if anybody had the foresight to copy/paste the memories into a word document or something. Sadly I did not and it looks like I'll have to hunt them all down. Unless someone wants to save me? If not, no biggie, I'll just stop being so lazy. If so, drop me an email: jeremyalowen @ gmail.com
Scott O
247. Nedo
@225 Schrodinger:
TEotW Ch. 50 the Green Man says (refering to the Eye), "A hundred of them made it, men and women together. The greatest Aes Sedai works were always done so, joining saidin and saidar, as the True Source is joined. They died, all, to make it pure, while the world was torn around them."

Also, I have a hard time buying the idea that Perrin will die. The dark prophecy only states that the "last days of the fallen Blacksmith's pride will come." That could mean a lot of things, including the Memory from last week I believe where it mentions something about the Blight reaching the Two Rivers. Any other ideas how the fulfilment of this prophecy will come about?
Scott O
248. BlueAjah
I pre-ordered my book in June.. Amazon Germany still maintains Jan 16th as the shipping date (Boo-hoo..) and I haven't seen it in any book shops so for (central catalogue for wholesalers/distributors also says its not yet available..) - I think waiting till Jan. 16th will kill me
Jay Dauro
249. J.Dauro
I would like to thank the Tor.com person or persons who were locked in the basement to produce all of these. I am sure it was a difficult job, choosing the quotes, and figuring the release order. Of course, they are trying to drive us mad.

Here are all the quotes so far:

1. It had been useful at Maradon. Nobody knew he had it. That was important.

2. I should like to hear one of your stories. Perhaps you could tell me of the time your father and you visited Shara?

3. Being married is not so bad, Perrin. Why didn't you tell me it was not so bad? I think I am rather fond of it.

4. Pass his bond to me.

5. "Creator shelter us," she whispered. Mat scowled. "You know, that's what Tuon said."

6. The right thing had always seemed clear to Galad before, but never had it felt as right as this. Those streaks of light were like indicators on a map, arrows pointing his way. The Light itself guided him. It had prepared him, placed him here at this moment.

7. "Nobody travels the Ways," Ituralde said, aghast.

8. Egwene strode around a frozen pillar of glass in her dream. It almost looked like a column of light. What did it mean? She could not interpret it.

9. The letter was written in Mat's hand. And, Elayne noticed with amusement, the handwriting was much neater and the spelling much better in this one than the one he'd sent her weeks ago.

10. "And farewell to you, old friend," she said to the air. "Until I dream again."

11. "One more thing, the marath'damane . . ." "I'll deal with those channelers personally," Mat said. She gawked at him as if he were insane.

12. Enough talk. You will bed me now.

13. "We must spread the word to all of our allies," Amys said. "We must not use this weave."

14.That, she replied back, is something one should never, never say to an Aes Sedai. Ever.

15. “It is a simple thing, to stop a man’s heart,” Cadsuane said, arms folded.

16. "Do not cut off your foot for fear that a snake will bite it, Perrin Aybara. Do not make a terrible mistake because you fear something that seems worse. This is all I will say on the topic."

17. "It is one of the three things which I will require of you. Your payment, to me, in exchange for my life."

18. Fortuona ignored her, standing. "This woman is my new Soe'feia. Holy woman, she who may not be touched. We have been blessed. Let it be known."

19. "What did you do to your eye?" "A little accident with a corkscrew and thirteen angry innkeepers."

20. As Tam attacked again, Rand lifted the sword and-

21. And you don't feel a small measure of pride? Egwene asked herself. Rand al'Thor, once simple village boy and your near-betrothed, now the most powerful man in the world? You don't feel proud of what he's done?

22. "Why are you helping me?" Perrin demanded. "I'm fond of you, Perrin."

23. "Light burn me," Rand said. "You're not him, are you?"

24. "There were many good years. Good decades, good centuries. We believed we were living in paradise. Perhaps that was our downfall. We wanted our lives to be perfect, so we ignored imperfections. Problems were magnified through inattention, and war might have become inevitable if the Bore hadn't ever been made."

25. "Oh, blood and ashes, no!" Cadsuane said, spinning on them. "No, no, no."

26. "Uno's topknot danced as he continued to blaspheme."

27. "Peaches!" Rand said, aghast. Everyone knew those were poisonous.

28. "But this . . . this isn't about blacksmithing, Perrin . . ."
"Of course it is," Perrin said. How could Rand not see that?

29. “Didn’t you once lead a band of thieves out of this forest?”
Birgitte grimaced. “I was hoping you hadn’t heard that one.”

30a. Rand strode forward, lifting his arms out to the sides. Grass sprouted in waves, red blossoms burst from the ground like a blush upon the land. The storm stilled, the dark clouds burned away by light.

30b. A joyful song, a song of awe and wonder, though she could not understand the words.

31. "He doesn't want to fight in Andor, Elayne thought. He doesn't want to fight alongside me. He wishes the break to be clean."

32. Rand stiffened. He'd known what he was doing, on some level, but to hear it explained was disconcerting.

33. If the end of the Aiel was the sacrifice required for Rand to win, she would make it.

34. What did you do when the One Power failed, the thing you relied upon to raise you above common folk?

35. The Blight had consumed the Two Rivers.

36. "Run, Bela," Faile said. "If you've kept any strength back, now is the time to use it. Please. Run, girl. Run."

37. I AM THE ONLY HONESTY YOUR WORLD HAS EVER KNOWN.

38. Humankind did not have days remaining, but hours.

39. They seemed to be cracks into nothingness. They drew the light in, sucked it away. It was as if he was looking at fractures in the nature of reality itself.

40. "We'll remember those who fell, and we'll tell our children how we stood when the clouds turned black and the world started to die. We'll tell them we stood shoulder to shoulder, and there was just no space for the Shadow to squeeze through."

41. They stood at the edge of time itself, and still Thom Merrilin found a smile.

42. Loial, son of Arent son of Halan, had secretly always wanted to be hasty.

43. "By the Light, he had a book to finish before he went!"

44. Rise, and save the world.
Scott O
250. BlueAjah
I particularly love the last quote - in a way, this tantalizing wait does feel like standing on the edge of time. It was a great journey
Deborah Kay-Morgan
252. moondivatx
Thanks Jay! 2

@ 245. clusterflux Oh did I forget to mention...I can step into and out of TAR comes from being a Texan I guess. Anyway, the first Barnes & Noble I visited Ryan Gosling was sitting in Starbucks, he said "Hey girl, I got you a Chai Tea." and well that's as far as I got! ;D
Deborah Kay-Morgan
253. moondivatx
Relistening to ToM now and know that the phrase "edge of time" appears early in the book..just can't find it or remember the context.
lake sidey
254. lakesidey
Loial, son of Arent son of Halan, had secretly always wanted to be hasty.
lake sidey
255. lakesidey
Also, I think of "Hall of the Servants" as analogous to "The White Tower". Now when the rebel AS gathered in Salidar, did they not almost name their little bivouac "The White Tower" (really, "the Little Tower", but I have no doubt that if the original WT had been destroyed then they would have called their new place the WT). The White Tower is not just the building, but also the idea. Just like the Amyrlin is, according to Eggs.

So if the original Hall of the Servants was destroyed, the surviving AS would doubtless recoinvene in a new building,m and with a certain inevaitably and lack of imagination would name it....you guessed it...."the Hall of the Servants"

~lakesidey
Scott O
256. Skyfoo
QUESTION -

Does anyone know if MoL will be available on iTunes on Jan 8th? I'd like to buy the audio version.

Thanks!
Deborah Kay-Morgan
257. moondivatx
It's available midnight Eastern from Audible. I called and ask last night.

Today...Loial is back and moving fast!
Scott O
258. Pansy
Loial, son of Arent son of Halan, had secretly always wanted to be hasty.
LOL, I always felt this about Loial, you don't see any others outside do you!! Two more days!!!
T C
259. Freelancer
moondivatx @252

There may well be a similar phrase, with a consistent context, but "edge of time" does not appear in TEotW, per Ideal Seek. Multiple places have the phrase "end of time", usually referring to the chatecism that the Dark One was bound by the Creator at Shayol Ghul until the end of time. The important occurrence is in the Prologue, Ishamael having followed Lews Therin to where he killed himself and raised Dragonmount:
"You cannot escape so easily, Dragon. It is not done between us. It will never be done until the end of time."
This is after the Strike, else there would be no taint madness, and Ishamael is already running around causing trouble. Barely bound indeed.
Scott O
260. Firemyst
Heh...Loial has been back in the shedding getting all use to being married. He knows he liked his time with the super kids. Plus he has to be there to be witness to it all for his book to be complete. So, when he sets off he realizes just how much he missed it.

TWO days....but I'm heading to Walmart now to see if mine jumped the gun too!
Scott O
261. Cromax
@215 and others...Per the BBoA, Ch. 3, The Age of Legends, the Hall of Servants was a sort of guild hall for Aes Sedai and there was one in every large city and smaller ones in smaller towns, much like union locals. Paaran Disen, the seat of AoL government, had the main Hall. This may have been one very large bldg. or have been a campus w/several bldgs. As well asthe meeting hall, there would have been admin offices, classrooms, etc.. I suspect that when the Hall was destroyed the Aes Sedai moved to either another bldg. on campus or to another bldg(s). in another part of the city.
Please excuse me if I am only stating the obvious.

@225...I really like this idea. To me it makes way more sense than some random Aes Sedai carrying the sword aroundwith them until the Stone was built during the final part of the breaking.

@242...LOL! Walmart is always full of Shadowspawn, especially at night when they restock the shelves.
Deborah Kay-Morgan
263. moondivatx
@259 Freelancer
I had forgotten about Ideal Seek..ToM Prologue searching "of time" found this phrase:

"Malenarin thought he could see to the very edge of time itself"

This is the Kandori tower commander looking out at the dark storm to the north just after composing the message to be taken by horseback to southern towers and the capital.

My question was about ToM not TEotW.
Scott O
264. MartinCahn
Loial, son of Arent son of Halan, had secretly always wanted to be hasty.

But, of course!

Antoni Ivanov
265. tonka
@re-readers
I began re-reading the series 3 months ago and I am about 2/3ths of ToM. Which makes me right on schedule. I wonder how long did anyone else take to re-read the series?
Tricia Irish
266. Tektonica
Lioal was always hasty! To the Ogier, at least....nice to know he acknowledges that he likes his hastiness.
Ron Garrison
267. Man-0-Manetheran
Loial gets his first look at the Seanchen Ogiers. They are kicking the oak tree that marks the Green Man's grave. Needless to say, this really pisses him off and he jumps out ahead of the army and races to the tree.
Dawn Boyall
268. deebee
Tonka

I started my re-read at the end of August and finished a couple of weeks before Christmas.

Then I started to re-read Leigh`s Re-read, including all the comments, which has been brilliant - I think I have actually got more out of that this time around than the first. But it`s slow going- and the comments are not over 200 per thread yet. (I`m coming toward the end of TSR at the moment, getting my WOT-fix while I wait for AMOL)
Nadine L.
270. travyl
Completely agree, Loial's quote is one of the best, I just like it.
Erin Oliver
271. Nederin
@tonka 265: I began rereading in February and read at a "casual" pace (like, ~100 pages per day) until I got to CoS. I took a break for the summer then started up again. I was reading the BS portion of the series by the time Prologues/Chapters of AMoL were being released, at which point I realized that my entire reread was untimely! I realized that I will want to reread the entire series immediately once AMoL is out and read. Oh well. I should have stuck with Leigh's reread.

Sorry if this is forum-inappropriate. I've really enjoyed everyone's comments and theories along the way - thanks for the "company" throughout the wait!
Scott O
272. jeff419
FYI, I talked to someone at Amazon and they said everyone order will ship and be delivered on the 8th in the US, at least if you ordered with Prime/2 day delivery.
Scott O
273. Mountain-Dancer
"We'll remember those who fell, and we'll tell our children how we stood when the clouds turned black and the world started to die. We'll tell them we stood shoulder to shoulder, and there was just no space for the Shadow to squeeze through."

This is Tam al'Thor talking to the Two Rivers men he commands. Recall that Tam is Perrin's First Captain.
Scott O
274. Mountain-Dancer
They stood at the edge of time itself, and still Thom Merrilin found a smile.

My take is that this is Morraine's POV.
Alice Arneson
275. Wetlandernw
It was time for Tarmon Gai'don. And looking out into that storm, Malenarin thought he could see to the very edge of time itself. An edge that was not far distant. In fact, it seemed to be growing darker. And there was a darkness beneath it, on the ground northward.

(ToM Prologue)
Sorcha O
276. sushisushi
Wetlandernw@224 Or, could it be interpreted that the people who made up the Hall of the Servants were massacred (razed), which would allow for another Hall to be raised afterwards? I'm thinking about the way the current Aes Sedai use 'the Hall' to mean both the physical location and the group of people, but mostly the people, the Ajah representatives. It comes up a lot with Egwene's Hall, that they are the Hall, despite the fact that they meet in a tent most of the time. It probably is a building that is rebuilt, but given the way the term is used, it's worth considering.

As for me, I only started my reread in December, so managed to get through TFoH before I realised that there was *no* way I was going to make it all the way through in time. I read some summaries and skipped onto TGS, which I've just finished (skipping everything where Perrin or Gawyn is mentioned...) I think there will be some very fast skimming of ToM until I can get my hands on a copy of AMoL - I have nothing ordered yet, but am planning on hitting some the bookshops in town on Tuesday until I find one.
Alice Arneson
277. Wetlandernw
sushisushi @276 - Well, "razed" is a term generally used of physical structures, not people - or even groups of people. I find it hard to believe that RJ would have used it that way; it's a lot easier to believe it was a simple continuity error.
Barry T
278. blindillusion
So, it turns out I'm one of those guys who happend to able to start the journey a little sooner than others. (Who knew, the PX here at Camp Casey, Korea actually had something I wanted....) It's fun looking at those quotes above.

The funny thing...I still cannot wait until Tuesday, when the book comes out, and all of you get to read it as well.... Then the True Dicussions can begin....

And very much looking foward to Leighs Spoiler Review.
Walter Jones
279. wjones42
Loial, son of Arent son of Halan, had secretly always wanted to be hasty.

Nothing new here. That's why he left the Stedding.
Tricia Irish
280. Tektonica
I'm really on the edge of my seat anticipating this book. It's hard to concentrate on anything else!

Blind: I'm so glad you got the book and are back here on the Reread thread! Please join in when we all get up to speed. My oh my....no more crazy theorizing, but we'll get to see which ones have played out ;-)
Joseph Blaidd
281. SteelBlaidd
wjones42@279: Remember the first step to geting help is admiting you have a problem ;)
Scott O
282. niallrj
Just been advised via email that the ETA for my copy of aMoL is now 11th Jan.

gutted......
T C
283. Freelancer
moondivatx,

Sorry about that, mistakenly thought you were referring to TEotW Prologue. It has been brought back up in so many discussions recently, when someone says "the Prologue", I immediately think Dragonmount.


I did not pre-order, never considered doing so. I know it saves a $ or 2, but I love real bookstores, and don't mind helping them stay in business. So I'll be at Mysterious Galaxy when the doors open (well, some time before they open, as I expect there to be a line), for two reasons. The more important being that the tour visit there has the signing line managed by ticket number, which is gotten by purchasing a book from the visiting author prior to the event. Funny that I no longer need a number, but a recently hired co-worker is a Brandon Sanderson fan from his non-WoT works, I'll be giving the ticket to him. So no chance of getting the book early, and no chance of not getting it on time (The store has dozens of boxes of them on hand waiting for Tuesday).
Scott O
284. LK
So some of you are lucky . . . bloody Amazon France says

COMMANDE PASSÉE 14 novembre 2012
DATE D'ENVOI ESTIMÉE lundi 21 janvier 2013
DATE DE LIVRAISON PRÉVUE jeudi 24 janvier 2013
Jonathan Levy
285. JonathanLevy
I don't know for sure when I'm going to get my copy (I live overseas). With ToM they shipped it 2 weeks before release, and it arrived just in time. This time, it still hadn't shipped yesterday, so I cancelled my order, trusting a local bookstore's promise to have one for me in the next few days.

Nerve-wracking, it was.

I guess I'm going to be slipping away from here until I've gotten my hands on it and finished reading it, so goodbye for now, guys - see you on the other side :)
Scott O
286. limber
Nynaeve will figure out how to heal turned Channelers. It will probably be similar to compulsion , but way more complex w/ 13 channelers doing the rite. Remember she healed the madness of the taint in ToM.
Melissa Spray
287. meowwl
I think we all knew that about Loial, even before today's memory.

I have in my hot little hands a copy of the book....And am trying not to squee outloud. Also, trying not to cackle like a mad thing, since I just spotted a particular memory on first thumb through...and yeah, it's cackle worthy. I'll wait till the 8th to share!

One of my local Walmarts was also one of those that jumped the gun. I went looking after seeing people posting here. I'm honestly surprised that they aren't getting in trouble for putting them out early...Though, I'm not personally griping, it's gotta be a contract violation or something.
Deborah Kay-Morgan
288. moondivatx
@ 275. Wetlandernw Thanks for the quote!! 1 Day!


@ 283. Freelancer Lucky you, I live in OK so no scheduled signing near me. Had one in Dallas for the last 2 books, but not this time.
I'd love to support a local private bookseller, but other than several used book stores Wally World and K Mart are the only choices. Do have a couple I visit in OKC but not making the trip of 60 miles one way.
Hope to see you at JordanCon, I've purchased my Badge!
Scott O
289. Nandros
@limber

More likely the process will be similar to what happened with Asmo in TSR where Rand 'cut' his connection from the dark one, which also killed ishy in TDR (if memory serves).
Though it's going to be interesting see it done by 'some one who knows what they are doing' which Rand in TSR and TDR certainly wasn't at the time.
Though more intersting will be to find out if Rand did what he did to asmo & ishy without help from LTT or was he really just swinging it all along.
F Wright
290. Igglybuff
I have a copy too. 4/5 through - got it Saturday. Looking forward to sharing it!!!
Rowland Hills
291. TickTockTick
I'm travelling from London to Geneva and back tomorrow and Wednesday so won't be able to stop at a normal shop. Does anyone know if there will be an "airport edition" (i.e. full size paperback) available tomorrow, or if it's only the hardback?

EDIT: Just noticed on Amazon that there is a paperback almost the same dimensions as the hardback due to be published tomorrow. Hopefully they'll have a copy at Heathrow airport which I can grab at 0600 tomorrow!
Charles Hopkins
292. charlesghopkins
It's only supposed to be the Hardback. The paperback copies will be a 6-12 month follow on.
Tricia Irish
293. Tektonica
Like you, Free, I like to go to the bookstore myself, both to support them, and for some sort of vague little ritual for myself.

Unlike you, there are no signings in Florida. In fact there's no one else in this state, that I know of, who even reads these books. You all are my WoT family and book club!

I'm very excited for my trip to B and N tomorrow, early. (Sorry, no small Indepenents to support here either....yes, it's a palm studded, intellectual wasteland.)

Sorry for all you overseas fans who are not getting it on time! That would make me crazy. We will miss you on the Spoiler Forum early on. Do come back though!

btw, paperbacks usually follow hardbacks by about a year. Maybe it's different in Europe?
Sorcha O
294. sushisushi
TickTockTick@291 Could you ring WHSmiths today to check? The same thing happened to me with the last Dresden Files book and they weren't much use in Terminal 1, as they only seem to get deliveries once a week (although I think that was Tuesday, so you might be in luck).

I've just reserved mine in a bookshop in town, so will have to restrain myself from collecting it until I've finished working for the day tomorrow...
Rowland Hills
296. TickTockTick
charlesghopkins@292, Tektonica@293 - Sorry, wasn't clear. I was referring to the hardback sized paperbacks which are only available in the airport, and seem to correspond roughly to hardbacks in terms of publishing date. They're only in paperback for weight and flexibility reasons, to help people flying.

Perhaps they don't exist outside Europe, but they're definitely not a one year lag behind the hardback, like the "mass-market paperback" usually is.

sushisushi@294 - Good idea. I'll give WHSmiths a call.
Rowland Hills
297. TickTockTick
Damn. Just called the bookshop at the airport. They have no copies yet, and tomorrow's delivery will be around 9am, when my flight leaves at 7am!
Scott O
298. hartfan
Indulge your WOT fanaticism while you wait the final hours before the release. See if you can name the characters in this quiz I created: http://www.sporcle.com/games/hartfan/WoT_characters
Scott O
299. RJ-RIP
"By the Light, he had a book to finish before he went!"

A new character Robert Jordan utters this, before the final chapter.
Eric Peters
300. egpeters
"By the Light, he had a book to finish before he went!" - Loial you are the man!
Scott O
302. krakatak
Perfect final quote for the final book.
Charles Hopkins
303. charlesghopkins
"By the Light, he had a book to finish before he went!"
Well this ought to spur on some interesting discussions.

Great quote to do on the Last Day!
Scott O
304. Skyfoo
Hi WoT'ers

-1 Day!

Time to, as Noal would say, "Gather Arms!"
Scott O
305. Skyfoo
Hi WoT'ers

-1 Day!

Time to, as Noal would say, "Gather Arms!"
Evelynne Weakley
306. evelynne_r
Perfect quote to end these Memories of Light. I wonder if that will be the last sentence?
Scott O
307. MartinCahn
_By the Light, he had a book to finish before he went!_

@299 and @300: I'm with you both, either way. :-D
Scott O
308. BlueAjah
I went to my local (German) bookstore (a chain, sadly) and behold! They said they'd have the book tomorrow around noon. Hopefully that's still true tomorrow... fingers crossed!!! I'm so excited!
Dawn Boyall
309. deebee
Before he went...where, I wonder?
Maybe the mystery of the Book of Translation will finally be resolved.

And I wonder which mysteries will be left hanging, to give us all things to continue to theorise about for years to come?
Scott O
310. ~Vamsi Sedai~
Any Indians here who are getting the book on 8th in India. Please tell me how to procure the book by 8th.....I will definitely explode if i do not read it soon......If any Indians here are getting the book in India...please tell me..
Mark Lawrence
311. incurablyGeek
Mine's on its way from the Amazon distribution center in Coffeyville, KS. So excited!
Scott O
312. FTHurley
"By the Light, he had a book to finish before he went!"

And he almost finished it. Thanks for the books, Mr. Jordan. They've been fun to read and discuss.
Chris Lough
313. TorChris
Hey all! Just a quick note that is actually the second to last Memory of Light. There's one more line to reveal, so check your inboxes early tomorrow morning. ;)
Scott O
314. rhandric
@313
Did you say early tomorrow morning?
/excited
Sirius Seyven
315. sirius7
@310 Flipkart lists it as releasing on Jan 8th. Been refreshing the order confirmation page the whole day, checking whether they have shipped it yet. And Landmark - just Jan, 2013, no specific date.
Scott O
316. Pieman
What a fitting memory the day before official release!
Craig Jarvis
318. hawkido
This is me today:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5rX37vsxV4

This is me tomorrow:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZWwNlKn8xE

This is me just a few days after that:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFQQVEd5LoM

I think alot of people would agree... Especially with the last one...
Scott O
319. GoingCrazy
mine is sitting 5 minutes from my house being held by FedEx. ..... waiting to see "out for delivery" :( cant stand the waiting! ...
Craig Jarvis
320. hawkido
Bonus question:

just a little cross over question withe Dr. Who and Wheel of Time:

What if Jack Harkness were balefired?

Just what would happen?
Chris Lough
321. TorChris
What if Jack Harkness were balefired?

First Tennant's goodbye, then this mind-puzzler? You are killing me, hawkido.
Jean Hall
322. schmat22
#293 - Tektonica ~ I live in Vero Beach, Florida, and have been reading WoT since 1996. I don't know anyone else who reads SFF, although I am sure there must be somebody! And yes, no Florida signings, as usual, although I would think that Florida in January or February would be a good place to be, rather than, say, Chicago!
Ron Garrison
323. Man-0-Manetheran
Loial's mother and wife had decided to go with those Ogier who chose to open the Book of Translation. Loial was torn between his love for his wife and mother and his duty. By the Light, he had a book to finish before he went! And finish it he would!

What a beautiful homage to Robert Jordan from BWS. THX!
Keith Buttram
325. Wookster125
Just picked up a copy at my local Wal-mart! Cant wait to tear into this, even if it is only hours early!
Matthew Smith
327. Blocksmith1
Last two days seemingly about Loial and definitely (hopefully) more promising than the five or so previous days quotes.

Can't believe tomorrow is almost here. I don't think I've ever squeed before, but I maybe close.
Roger Powell
328. forkroot
evelynee_r@306
Perfect quote to end these Memories of Light. I wonder if that will be the last sentence?
Well, I'm really, really hoping that the last two sentences are:
There are neither beginnings nor endings to the turning of the Wheel of Time. But it was an ending.
Gonna find out real soon now!
Scott O
329. Firemyst
That last one is obviously Loial....but.....before he went where? Back to the stedding? Wherever the Book of Translation takes the Ogier? Anyway, that'd be a great ending.

Tnx to Mr Jordan for creating such a world and to Mr Sanderson for finishing the story with such flare and to Mrs Rigney for choosing him.
darren vickers
330. darvick
@325
My town sucks, we have 2 wal'marts and neither one has it out yet:-(
Going to check again after midnight though, when I get off work.

Had to laugh at todays Memory, one of the best yet. Can't wait for the last one tomorrow, and the real thing of course.

Only 18 hous to wait at the most :-))))))
Tricia Irish
331. Tektonica
Schmat@322:

A fellow Floridian! You're the first I've heard of...wish you were closer...I'm in Delray Beach. Maybe we'll manage a get together 1/2 way between sometime.
Scott O
332. pyrefire
A promise made a long time ago is about to be kept. "Just a few days"! he thought while dipping his quill in the inkbottle. He heard singing from nearby. "A few days! By the light! he had a book to finish before he went!" Loial feared Gaul doesn't want to stay here to long.
Abhijit Srivastava
333. abhi_sedai
@310: I've pre-ordered via Flipkart. Btw Vamsi are you in Mumbai by any chance?
Scott O
334. Tamyrlin79
If Jack Harkness were balefired, it stands to reason that since balefire back-dates one's moment of death, he'd come back to life several minutes/hours/days (depending on strength of balefire) before he died, no?
Jean Hall
335. schmat22
#331 - Tektonica:
At least we are on the same coast, & you know where I am located. For a lot of people I would have to say "east of Disney & south". Maybe we could meet half way, but I know that for the next day or two we will be devouring the last book. Hard to wait for it!
Scott O
336. Brades0670
Yes! Book in hand!
Scott O
337. Mountain-Dancer
I have the book now! I went to Walmart at lunch, and got the only copy left on the shelf there.

I am already on chapter 5. I will not post for a while, and will avoid spoiler sites for a few days.
T C
338. Freelancer
hartfan @298

2:34
Deborah Kay-Morgan
339. moondivatx
Today's memory certainly sounds like Loial.

Thank you Harriet, Team Jordan, Brandon and Tor for giving us the end of the story. My heart was broken when I read of RJ's death, not so much because I was afraid of not getting the ending, but because he was just a special man and great story teller. His integrity as a man and genuine concern for the fans is a rare quality today. He was a true gentleman, he didn't rely on excessive cursing or sex to give his stories life...his characters and their lives were the only tools he needed.

Stopped into WalMart after work and their book vendor was there putting out stock. He and I know each other, so after I looked and couldn't find AMoL I ask him about it. He'll be back tomorrw around 8AM to put out Tuesday's releases. Said he/his company would never put a book out early because the store can be fined up to $10,000.

So cheers to all you lucky ones with the book. I happen to live where apparently the only honest book vendor stocks WalMart!! ;-D

At least I'll get the audio from Audible at 11PM tonight.

For Harriet
Then, now, and always
Chris R
340. up2stuff
So I am having the strangest issue today. After some reflection on my thoughts before starting AMoL, I hit the preview button and was astonished to see the following:

A Memory of Light comes out tomorrow. A Memory of Light comes out tomorrow. A Memory of Light comes out tomorrow. A Memory of Light comes

out tomorrow. A Memory of Light comes out tomorrow. A Memory of Light

comes out tomorrow. A Memory of Light comes out tomorrow. A Memory of Light comes out tomorrow. A Memory of Light comes out tomorrow. A Memory of Light comes out tomorrow. A Memory of Light comes out tomorrow. A Memory of Light comes

out tomorrow. A Memory of Light comes out tomorrow. A Memory of Light comes out tomorrow. A Memory of Light comes out tomorrow. A Memory of Light comes out tomorrow.

This went on for Lines! Reminded me of that Scene in “The Shining.” Should I be worried?
Scott O
341. BellWA
No book yet, but definetly Loial, I like the idea of finishing the book, the book of translation opened and Loial leaving with the the others or perhaps that is all the time Rand would give him before he left ...
Scott O
342. ~Vamsi Sedai~
@315 I did that for the whole day and now it just shows preorder......I called flipkart like a 1000 times....But they have no info. Homeshop18 shows jan25...local landmark guy has no clue...We can order from amazonglobal but it would cost 49$ for an express shipment

@333 I also preordered on Flipkart. Lets hope they can ship it today without delay. I am not from Mumbai but i am from Hyderabad......

If you have any info please mail to jax3677@gmail.com
Scott O
343. Letum Fortis
12 hours to go.... I took off of work to read the final book.

"Sa souvraya niende misain ye."

To Team Jordan...
"Tai'shar Randland"
Scott O
344. Eagle
So After work, I swung by the ghetto Wallmart. I had tried a couple other wallmarts in the last few days... but today, was the day!!!

Now, to resist several urges.... Staying up to midnite(or past) reading...Calling in sick tommorow to read...

Sigh. :)
Alice Arneson
345. Wetlandernw
Eagle - Why on earth are you trying to resist these urges? I'm confused.
darren vickers
346. darvick
Last Memory

Rise, and save the world
Dawn Boyall
347. deebee
And now I have my copy, I`m strangely reluctant to begin.
I never thought I`d feel like this.
darren vickers
348. darvick
On my way to get AMOL, only one hour to go :-))))))
Loving Life!!!!!
Charles Hopkins
349. charlesghopkins
Last MoL: "Rise, and save the world."

Arise, ye soldiers of men and women!! Go forth and complete, this, our Epic Journey!!

All hail, James Oliver Rigney, Jr.!!
Tricia Irish
351. Tektonica
Rise and save the world.

Sounds almost like Rand knelt to someone ;-(
Deborah Kay-Morgan
352. moondivatx
Rise and save the world.

@ 351 Tektonica...we shall soon know!!

I think it's an awesome quote...made me cry ;-D

Got the audio version, since I want to savor this, I didn't listen to a second. Now off to work early and get IT on the way!!

The Light shine on you and the Creator shelter you. Happy reading.

For Harriet
Then, Now and Always!
Daniel Sahlman
353. Lazlo
Rise, and save the world.

Creator to Rand after he dies.
Scott O
354. avox
Aviendha after her night with Rand.
Scott O
355. MKMlovesToRead
@354... made me LOL... :)
Michael Newman
356. Hephaestion
First post after stalking from the shadows for many, many months... The wife just texted me to let me know my "Package" had arrived. I definately squeed. Perhaps even twice. Now to survive the 3 hours I have left at work before I get to forget about my friends and family for the next few days. So excited and so sad at the same time.

Carai an Caldazar! Carai an Ellisande! Al Ellisande!
Scott O
357. Nandros
TOR just released all the memories with explanations and while the text right before the memories is pretty safe and doesn't spoil too much (even if it does spoil an event).
Hence, I urge you who have not read the book yet to avoid reading explanations for the memories that were picked because you will be spoiled if you read those that spoiler warning is no joke.
Scott O
358. chelle7272
You lucky lot with the book already, mine due later to day (12.55 am in UK now). Not too bad though a ex was originally to be Friday! Have not posted before but gave really enjoyed everyone's comments, theories send predictions. Don't have the words enough to praise team Jordan, can only echo what has been said. As has been said so thrilled it's here yet so sad there will be no more. Enjoy everyone! Look forward the discussions when we've done...
Scott O
359. Michelej898r
Was waiting outside on the deck when the UPS guy got here today!!! He got a kick out that for some reason...1:15 ET, waiting till 6 pm before I just stopped staring at it sitting on my table...just could not bring myself to crack the spine...LOL...and I am starting a new job Thursday and have no idea when my next day off will be...but I'm gonna take it slow...it's the last one.
Sarah MacBeth
360. Aerie426
Went into town to pick up my copy yesterday and managed to restrain myself from squeeing in public (plenty of which was done behind closed doors over the last few days) although did find myself hugging the book while standing in line!
Having determined to take my time with this one to really savour the moment - I quickly found the hours speeding by until 2am arrived with me still curled in the same position; no feeling in any of my limbs, perishing of thirst with a drink sitting forgotten beside me and 1/3 of my way through already. Ah well, the wheel weaves as the wheel wills and I am enjoying this so much I don't even mind!
Of course I have noticed a little mini-squee every time I come across one of the memories, especially if we guessed the context/characters right. I also keep thinking the words 'I wonder if this is where Leigh said...'
I would like to add my thanks to the others here - Team Jordan for this wonderful journey we have found ourselves apon and Tor for providing such welcome fodder for our waiting minds. You have my eternal gratitude, this whole experience has been one that I doubt could ever be replicated. While the crazy theorising is now at it's end I look forward to seeing you all in the spoiler discussions after I finish this book.
With genuine love and affection,
Aerie
xoxo
Benjamin Moldovan
361. benpmoldovan
Won't have mine till tomorrow, at the Dayton book signing. *twitch*

Ben
Scott O
362. RAFO-since1990
Finished it last night @12:30 am. all I can say is WOW.

I've read in many sources that RJ wrote the final scene of aMoL - does anyone know if that means the epilogue, the very last chapter or the end of the Final Battle?
Scott O
363. LK
So I finally got it this morning. Reading while family is looking at the film 2012. Fitting.
Eric Hughes
364. CireNaes
JL@109

Sort of. I think it's a both/and rather than an either/or. It's always important to acknowledge each one for learning purposes and personal application.
Scott O
366. Kaizoku
PLEASE IGNORE ABOVE COMMENTJust realised this wasn't the right place to post it, and don't know how to delete it. (Update: comment unpublished by moderator :)
Scott O
367. LK
So does anyone have links to forums for discussing the book for people who HAVE read it ? :-) For those who haven't... read it!

While I'm at it, THANK YOU Tor and Harriet and helpers and Brandon and RJ for completing this and for bringing it off so well!
Scott O
368. LB
WHAT A BUNCH OF CRAP - CRAP - CRAP!!
To much about the War - and almost nothing about what happened after his battle with DO.

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