Wed
Oct 24 2012 10:30am

Audioslice: A Memory of Light, Chapter 2: “The Choice of an Ajah”

Listen to A Memory of Light, Chapter 2: The Choice of an AjahThe January 8 release of A Memory of Light is inching closer, but you can get an earful of the audiobook now, read by narrators Kate Reading and Michael Kramer.

Listen to Chapter 2, “The Choice of an Ajah”:

For those having trouble seeing the audio widget, try listening here.

Meanwhile, Macmillan Audio’s preorder campaign for the audiobook edition of A Memory of Light is in full swing, meaning there are now Wheel of Time phone covers out in the wild.

A Memory of Light iPhone cover

One recipient, David H., reports back on his new accessory:

“I love this phone case because, for the past 15 years, The Wheel of Time has taken over every other facet of my life, so why shouldn’t it take over my mobile life as well? I love this phone case because every time someone sees my case and asks me what the Wheel of Time is, I get to relive my love and awe of such a complete series. And I love this phone case because I feel every day like I am honoring an unequaled fiction visionary by displaying Robert Jordan’s name for all to see.”

You, too, can be as happy as David here. The first 2,000 people who preorder the audiobook edition of A Memory of Light on CD between 8/31/12 and 12/7/12 will receive a custom Wheel of Time phone cover for the iPhone*. The program is available for preorder wherever audiobooks on CD are sold in stores and online. To redeem, send Macmillan Audio proof of purchase via this upload form or regular mail. A full list of the rules can be found here.

*iPhone is a registered trademark of Apple, Inc. Apple, Inc. has not authorized or endorsed this promotion.


Samantha Beerman is spreading the word about audiobooks. Check out the array of free audiobook excerpts she provides here on Tor.com.  

144 comments
Sawa
1. Sawa
I'm confused here, I know that in the guide it was written that a man had to lead a circle of less than 4 people, but due to events surrounding the clensing of saidin I assumed that a woman still had to initiate the circle itself. Men were supposed to be unable to initiate a circle. What happens here?
James Luckman
2. Luckers
They do. We see this with Nynaeve and Rand. The woman initiates the link and the man then assumes control of it.
Sawa
3. Sawa
Yes, taht's how it should be. but here Pevara is unable to establish a circle. Why?
Joel
5. leetj
If they really wanted to have that scene in the books again (female linking with male from female's perspecive), there was a perfectly good template from an incredibly high profile chapter to reference. We're not talking some obscure nuance from a boring section of CoT, this is from 'With the Choedan Kal', one of the most popular chapters in the entire series. Not bothering to look this up to make sure it's right is just laziness.
James Luckman
6. Luckers
It's not the only mistakes. herid pointed out that the way Brandon describes saidar joining saidin in a link as being almost like it empowers saidin--when in fact a man would just weave saidar and saidin both. And Pevara cannot see the weaves, yet we see Nynaeve see a saidar woven by a man in KoD.
Sawa
7. Typhoonclass17
I agree with the above comments, the dicrepency in such an important and previously documented "linking" action should have been picked up in the editing process yet...

That was hardly what struck me the most. The pace of this excerpt was in relative slow motion in comparison to what we have seen in the prologue and chapter 1. Granted I liked Aviendha's little sneak through the camp, and B. Sanderson's fingerprints all over the "aloud" thought process and dialogue.
BUT I felt like the prologue and chapter one had set me off on a rollercoaster ride of thrill and adventure like I always hoped the conclusion of this series would be (just how I fell in love EotW) but chapter 2 just slammed on the brakes and threw me over the handle bars unexpectedly.
I know there is a lot of story to wrap up and moments like this will have to come, I was a bit startled by it, but not put off... I cannot wait to see what the wheel will weave out for my favorite characters!
Sawa
9. Typhoonclass17
I should also add to my coments in #7, that the last moments in Androl's room brought a huge sense of fear, dreading what is possible to come... but to the point I made above, his and Pevara's chatter felt sluggish, without moving the story line along much...
But maybe thats what made those last moments so chilling in comparison, will just have to wait and see how it pans out
Sam Mickel
10. Samadai
A good chapter. I was really hoping that Androl was going to create a gateway, and when the door slammed open, I thought they were both goners. Hearing it is so much more annoying than reading it. If I am reading it, I can go my own pace which is much preferable.

Not to say that I am not happy to hear it, I am ecstatic, it was a wonderful treat that Tor gave us. Thank you Tor, Team Jordan, and all
Theresa Gray
11. Terez27
Just for the record, that's not me. ^^

(flagged for impersonation)
James Luckman
12. Luckers
Hehe. The joke that occurred to me was 'why Terez, what big teeth you have' ...
Sawa
14. jms1969
Hate to complain about any advance WOT material, but the reading of the chapter is horrible. It almost sounds like the computer generated voices I can get out of my kindle. I've never purchased an audiobook before, and I can't ever picture myself doing so if they are all like this!

I had to stop listening after what was probably a page or two. I'll wait to read Chapter 2 myself when it comes out.
Noneo Yourbusiness
15. Longtimefan
I appreciate the sample and listened to the whole thing.

That being said there is a reason I never get the audio book version. I am sure there are people who like them but I have been reading for so long I have my own ennunciation of the words and names and Beer get tah is so not one of them. :)

also it struck me as awkward that the term "would the spears be danced" was used instead of "would they dance the spears" since the "I be, we be" terminology is more Illian than Aiel.

But it is almost finished and the book will be out soon so hooray for that and I look forward to January and all the little dribs and drabs that Tor choses to be so generous with in these coming weeks.

Thank you for posting another delightful chapter. It is very very nice of the powers that be and it is appreciated.
Rj Susara
16. dmonray
Was worried for a sec there that Terez got 13x13'd.
F Shelley
17. FSS
hey, wait. I'm terez27!

or not...

and yeah, that's a huge miss on who links with whom.

as for the pacing, i think it's only because it was read aloud. If it was written and read by someone silently, it would probably be much faster...
Kristi Deming
18. tigana0118
@Longtimefan : it actually IS "ber-GEET-teh"

http://library.tarvalon.net/index.php?title=Pronunciation_Guide

I prefer reading the books (actual PAPER ones, as opposed to e-books), but I do have all the audio books from Audible. I can't sleep at night if I don't have my mp3 playing...starting with NS, through to "By Grace...", and pick up the next day from where it left off the night before. (It's amazing how many WoT dreams I've had since I started doing this!) Currently, I'm on tGS, ch 15, in the audio, and tGH, ch 22, in book form.

Anyway, on to listening...
Sawa
20. jms1969
@15Longtime Fan - You're right. I think most WOT fans have been reading the books for so long, and come up with their own pronounciations for the character's names and other specialized words used in the book. It's jarring to hear them differently, even if they are correct.

@17 FSS - I agree 100%. The slow pace of the audiobook is probably a lot of what turned me off, along with the lack of expression. It's much slower than my (and I think most just about everyone's) reading pace, and also below the normal pace for the spoken word. I found that I was unable to slow myself down enough to make the sentences make sense - I was constantly trying to jump ahead and guess where the sentence was heading.

Again, I appreciate the additional preview of the book from Tor, and realize that some people may enjoy audiobooks. For me, they're not enjoyable at all.
Sawa
21. qenops
Light, you all seem to hate audiobooks. I for one, am a big fan and listen almost all the time. I can see where you are coming from though, it takes a while to warm up to the readers and to audiobooks in general, not to mention correcting your mispronunciations of names.

I think they add much to the story and am grateful for this chapter. Thanks Tor!
Theresa Gray
22. Terez27
The audiobook pronunciations are not always correct, by the way. They usually are, but it's best not to assume they're wrong unless you're sure. But I also hate audiobooks; that's why we transcribe it every time, so people like me don't have to listen to it. I can't read any of the last three chapters 2 without hearing the voices in my head; it's annoying.
M Peters
23. DJ_Pon3
Yeah.

Audiobooks certainly have their place, but for me, that place is almost exclusively during a long road trip. But I know many people that love them and listen all the time. I just can't get into it, especially with a book or series that I love and am very familiar with.

I think we all tailor the story, the characters, speech patterns, pronuciations and even the sound of a characters voice. And it is distracting when that changes.

I listened to an audio copy of Dune during one trip. It was good and they definitely mispronounced some of the words, but there was emotion in their voices, almost as if the readers were somewhat acting out the book. That made it tolerable, even creating some moments of unintended hilarity.

There are versions available of many of Stephen King's books where he is the narrator, and that is pretty cool.

This version however, and I'm sorry to the narrators, I just couldn't get into. It was very monotone. And perhaps that is what is prefered by most who enjoy the audiobooks, but to me it just added to the distraction. I did finish it and did enjoy getting additional preview content, but I can't wait to read it on my own to really see how in feels in context with the rest of the material we've been given (or bought) so far.
Alan Courchene
25. Majicou
I love audiobooks. While I see people (not in this thread) decrying them for replacing reading, they augment my reading. I can't read a book while driving or cooking or working at my computer.

That said, the quality is just as variable as it is for books in general. Once I got an audiobook of Lord of the Flies read by the author. You'd think that would be ideal, but he was a terrible narrator. No distinction among characters and little expression. At the other end of the spectrum was Jim Weiss reading Catch-22 brilliantly.

I put Michael and Kate (not their real names, but still) among the better narrators. They certainly do distinguish among characters (not perfectly across the board with WoT's thousands of characters, but I have no confusion within a scene) and play the emotions well. These scenes have a rather somber tone, but I can easily hear Pevara's rising panic, for instance. I sometimes wish they'd use the accents as described by Mr. Jordan once, but I don't know if that would help or hurt the reading.
Theresa Gray
26. Terez27
So now are my comments just getting randomly deleted, or what?
Sawa
27. CorDarei
transcription? :P
Irene Gallo
28. Irene
@CorDarei:

Jan 8th. ;-)

Until then, we’d like to give a boost to those who enjoy audio books by supporting the folks that create them (including the authors.)
Sorcha O
29. sushisushi
The weirdest thing I find about the audiobook is not just the pronunciation differences (although Seanchan should totally be pronounced shan-chan, because the first bit is the Irish for 'old'), but hearing it read out in an American accent. I guess we all read the story in our own voices, but the only characters that sound American in my heard are the Seanchan themselves, so hearing Aviendha and Elayne chatting like Yanks is just *odd*.

That said, I really liked the furthering of Pevara and Androl's story in the Black Tower. So, a pair of Logain's crew have returned and the Ashaman at least has been turned, yikes. Can't wait to see how Logain gets out of *that* one...

Also, I can't believe no-one has commented on Pevara and Androl's double bonding? Hasn't that been one of the wilder theories floating around for a while? Should be interesting to see how *that* works out...
Rich Bennett
30. Neuralnet
Wow, what a great surprise to get this post today. Thanks, Tor! The section with Androl and Pevara was my favorite... Had a feeling it was going to end up with one of them bonded to the other. Wonder if there wil be any extra benefits with both bonds. I am really looking forward to the conclusion to the black tower story arc.

As an aside, I dont think I would ever have the patience to listen to an entire audiobook... seemed slow
Noneo Yourbusiness
31. Longtimefan
@ 18.


tigana0118



Oh I have no doubt that the audio reader is following the book pronunciation guide accurately. I am terrible at those parenthetical instructions.

But I have been failing on my own in my head since the beginning and will probably call her "bridge it" forever. :) (along with many many other mistakes that I have made in reading over the years but they are where I am comfortable with the series.)

I did not intend to say that I did not like the quaility of the audio books. Having done voice work I know how difficult it can be to maintain consistency in short work and this has been thousands upon thousands of pages for the two readers who have done this series.

It may not be for me but I recognize the effort to keep a good clear voice and to change some tone for the different characters without becoming overly dramatic or stagey in the work.

I believe there were 7 or 8 different characters in that one chapter and there were subtle distictions for each one.

Talented. very. I can see why there are people who want the audio versions and it is beneficial that the series has found good readers to work with.
Sawa
32. Mark__x
I've been listening to the audiobooks of the entire series and really enjoy all of them (I'm listening to them all again - I'm back through to book 7 now, and I hope to be finished book 13 by the end of December). A handy tip is to playback the audiobooks at 2x-speed in your player (eg: iTunes). I prefer this over the 1x spoken pace. I think the 1x pace is deliberately as slow as it is so that every word is clearly enunciated.

I think they definitely take some getting used to, but by slowing to a spoken pace (even 2x pace, as opposed to the much much faster 'normal' reading pace inside your head), the nature and pacing of the books is very different and in my view, worthwhile. I think its because instead of skimming as you read, you pick up and retain a lot more of the detail in what goes on, and something you begin to see as you do this is that the prejudices embedded in your own mind and reading voice can lead you to skew your own comprehension of the content. I know I certainly missed (or de-emphasised) things on my first reading of the series that were smaller details that became quite important later on. I picked up more on my second and third reads of the series, and then again picked up more when I got the audiobooks. Listening to the spoken books is not the only way, but IMO it is a good (and different) way to do a re-read of this series.

Btw, regarding the "errors" called out in previous posts above - its in the book, therefore its canon, therefore there are no errors. Note: this is not a troll, I'm just annoyed at all the annoyed people who think they could have done a better job. I say 1) you couldn't, and 2) its a fiction book for crying out loud - just enjoy it!

I think I'm going to have to go back and find the section on Circles in "The World of Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time" in any case (I can't remember the specifics but I know this stuff was explored in detail there); but alternatively - another way of looking at it: One of the things we have learned in this series that many things that are thought to be "impossible" are only impossible because people thought so. So, indeed then, Why should a small linked circle led by a male (who has never done it before and figured a method out by himself) be any different?
Sawa
33. Rift
Since when are men not able to initiate circles? I don't remember this rule. What I DO remember is that two men cannot create a circle together without the inclusion of a woman. Women can create circles together all the way up to 13 members before a man must be included. However, a man cannot even create a circle with one other man without the help of a woman. There is no rule, however, that a man cannot initiate a circle with a woman. Only that they cannot create a circle without one.
michael gaston
34. Ashenladoka
So Pevara bond's Androl, then he bond's her. I can understand her fear when she did it and I'm assuming he did it back because he was a little pissed. But given what we know about bonding, how is this going to work? I know AS can compel to an extent and I assume the Asha can too. Is it like two negatives in a sentence? They cancel each other so any attempt to compel just goes out the window? For a Red sister that has GOT to be a kick in the rump. I also assume that her whole reason for being Red just took a nose dive too. If she gentles him or someone else does he will go into depression and if he kills himself then what does that do to her knowing how AS are effected when a Warder dies? Since she didn't sound to convinced the Source is cleansed others probably will doubt it too.
On a side note who gets to be called the Warder now? And holy crap can you imagine the emotions that would come thru the bond if they "enjoyed" each others company? I always thought a double bond was possible but I just didn't see it getting put into use, but it definately opens some interesting possibilities of others doing it. But I do wonder why Pevara didn't STOP him knowing he would lash out.
Scientist, Father
35. Silvertip
Apologies to the purists, but I just can't get worked up over the possibility of a continuity error in the details of how circles work. It strikes me as a point extraneous to what drives the characters (what I really care about) to begin with; and, I'll say the same thing I've said about the timeline quirks: Sanderson is doing an amazingly difficult thing in finishing somebody else's epic, and doing it amazingly well. I suspect that one of the difficulties he's encountering that we can't fully appreciate from the outside is that, if RJ had recovered and kept working from where he set down his pen, he would have been able to do substantial re-engineering of the outline as it stood when he needed to, moving scenes and characters around and adding and deleting things in the final refinement to make all the dots connect. Brandon, having appropriately pledged to basically follow RJ's notes and outline and not add any scenes, is much more constrained, and is likely more or less stuck with any discontinuities that RJ hadn't finished ironing out before his death.

It's a minor miracle (and a testament to both authors) that everything meshes as well as it does. If there are some minor continuity or timeline issues that Brandon was simply not able to connect up without either directly channeling RJ's spirit, making bigger changes to what he inherited than he was willing to, or both, I'm perfectly happy to roll with it. We're bloody lucky to be getting a well-executed finish to the series that plugs in anywhere nearly as well as it does, folks. Not the time to nitpick.

All that said, what does bother me (and has all the way back to the early books) is the entire 13x13 concept itself. On the level of the novel, it's really a violation of what I find most interesting about good books, the continuity and evolution of characters I care about. Within-story, it really seems to not be one thing or the other. It could be something on the order of Compulsion, putting the victim under the control of the conversion committee, but that doesn't require 13 channelers and 13 fades, just one Graendal. Instead, the person seems to "become" evil -- in some sense. But what does that mean? And if someone "becomes" evil (RJ apparently talked about it as bringing out the worst aspects of personality that are already there in everybody -- Terez? help? ) why do you automatically get an obedient little darkfriend? Why not a self-centered remoreseless prick with no loyalty to either side? Why not another Eamon Valda? It just doesn't feel right to me. Apparently we'll see more of what the victims are like, maybe it'll all make sense, but for me it's things like this that knock me out of the story.

Anyway: Good stuff! Counting the days!

S
Alice Arneson
36. Wetlandernw
So - we finally get to see the double-bond in effect! For a bit there, I thought it was going to be a massive positive-feedback loop and they were both going to end up like Mesaana, but I guess not. Probably good, since I expect them to be the ones to expose the Dreadlord Factory. Should be interesting to see how they work it out - loved that Androl has no clue how to undo it, so they're stuck.

I have to admit, it was rather frustrating to end the chapter with sending for Min - I'm looking forward to the meeting of the three again. I was also pleased to learn that the difficulty in channeling is like morning sickness - the worst is over with the first trimester or so.

Like Samadai, Longtimefan, and apparently many others... I liked the content but the reading was really distracting. I'd much rather read it myself! I spent years checking the pronunciation guides in the glossaries to make sure I said the names right in my head, so hearing them done wrong is truly crazy-making. (Yes, Longtimefan - beer-GIT-ah is just all, all wrong! It's supposed to be ber-GEET-teh.) I've never quite understood why, when the pronunciation is clearly given in the glossaries, the readers don't (apparently) look at that and instead just go with whatever they feel like saying.

qenops@21 - in this case, the reader is definitely pronouncing it wrong, not "correcting my mispronunciation." The above is straight from the glossary, and you don't use a double-e to denote a short i sound. I have no objection to audiobooks in general; some I like, some I don't. I definitely don't like the WoT audiobooks.

Silvertip - Sorry I can't point you directly to the blog post where RJ explained the turning thing. I know it's in the theoryland database somewhere, but I couldn't find the right tags for it tonight.
Sawa
38. Jasmine
you're killing me! it's like showing a hungry person the food (prologue) letting him smell it (chapter one), even allowing him to touch it (chapter two and part of CH6), then denying him the meal, that's just cruel ....I WANT THE BOOK, THE WHOLE BOOK, AND I WANT IT NOW
James Luckman
39. Luckers
@Silvertip re: reply 35

You said: "Brandon, having appropriately pledged to basically follow RJ's notes and outline and not add any scenes, is much more constrained, and is likely more or less stuck with any discontinuities that RJ hadn't finished ironing out before his death."

Actually only 50% of events in the novels were in the notes (by Brandon's own statement). So yes, Brandon DID add scenes--in fact he added entire plotlines (one he was considering but discarded was having Perrin turn to the Way of the Leaf, if that gives you any sense over the scope of his creative freedom). Furthermore he had the power to go against the notes and did so where he deemed it necessary for the good of the story (as with Egwene's meeting with Elaida in tGS), so he by addition was not 'stuck' with any discontinuities. He could have fixed them in any way he wished.
Jonathan Levy
40. JonathanLevy
36.Wetlandernw
For a bit there, I thought it was going to be a massive positive-feedback loop and they were both going to end up like Mesaana, but I guess not.
Just wait until they make the beast with two backs :D

(plenty of forshadowing for that in this scene).

39.Luckers
So yes, Brandon DID add scenes--in fact he added entire plotlines (one he was considering but discarded was having Perrin turn to the Way of the Leaf, if that gives you any sense over the scope of his creative freedom).
Hey I think I actually found that interview in the Theoryland database (such a wonderful resource) but it's hardly an example of his creative freedom:
The second thing is that someone asked whether he had freaked Harriet out with how well he channeled Jordan, and he replied that he had freaked Harriet out, though not so much for that as for some of his crazy ideas. He said he thought Jordan would have been innovating and creating as the process of writing unfolded, and that he did much the same, throwing thoughts at Harriet, some of which made it into the book. An example of one which didn't end up in the books, and which apparently Harriet 'freaked' out about was that he suggested Perrin might take up the Way of the Leaf.
Of course, this text is paraphrased by some guy named 'Luckers', so you'll have to decide for yourself how far to trust the accuracy of his reporting :) :) :)

@several re: Audiobooks.
I'm able to listen to it, but now I know I'll never get an Audiobook.
James Luckman
41. Luckers
@JonathanLevy What in that is not indicative of the degree of his creative freedom? It shows clearly the scope in which he felt comfortable innovating. Yes Harriet shot him down in this particular instance, but he still felt quite comfortable suggesting the idea in the first place, and that is what is telling.
Joel Halnan
42. mainphramephreak
Correct me if I'm wrong, and I'll go and listen to it again, but in regards to the linking, is it possible that Pevara was still in "open to link" mode and Androl figured it out and both linked and took control of the circle at the same time? I remember when Rand and Nynaeve linked, Nynaeve initiated the link but started feeling strained in a way, because she was still "in control" until Rand ripped it away. From Pevara's reaction, it seems like the same kind of situation. She was trying to link, but not trying to give up control. Also, it took the Wise Ones and the Asha'man with Perrin a little while to figure out linking. Maybe Pevara's and Androl's inexperience is what caused the confusion.
Sawa
43. somewheresouth
mainphramepreak @42 -that was pretty much what I was thinking also - have been doing a re-read, up to The Shadow Rising (forgotten so much! can't believe it!) and have been really noticing the inexperienced-channelers-struggling-to-figure-out-how-to-do stuff stuff. I'd forgotten how long it took everyone to learn, and how hard it was when everyone didn't know things. So I read the Pevara-Androl-linking issues as being just that, journeyman problems. I remember Nynaeve Elayne Egwene et al having as many problems in an all-female circle/circles. I am suprised Pevara couldn't see saidar being woven by Androl, but hey, maybe it was on the inside and she couldn't see through the invisible saidin. Found the audiobook a bit slow, and spent most of the time listening to it at a loss with what to do while not holding a book. Click my laptop screen? I like the idea of speeding it up though. I'm obviously not used to audiobooks.
Scientist, Father
44. Silvertip
HMMM. I thought I remembered around the time of tGS there being a statement (I thought by Brandon) along the lines of: there is not a single scene in the book that wasn't laid out by RJ. But I can't find the quote now, and the one @JLevy found seems to contradict that. So maybe I was hallucinating again. (Really should lay off the hard stuff.) I will, however, stick to the big point, that picking up somebody else's work is really really hard to do well, and I'm not going to sweat a few continuity glitches as the price of getting a well-executed finale.

S
Thomas Jeffries
45. thomstel
Re: 13x13 trick

I considered a looney theory awhile back that being turned to the Shadow somehow involved amalgamating/replacing the soul(s) in the victim's body with one from a dead Darkfriend. A pseudo-Lord of the Grave effect via whatever Shadow energy the Fades contribute to the weaves?

Some other possible mechanisms don't seem likely:

1) Compulsion-like effect. As mentioned before, there's not a huge need for there to be another form of Compulsion when the normal version is as nasty as it is, unless the key to this one is that it allows free will while functioning.
2) Direct connection/control from the DO. Our only other reference to direct contact with the DO (True Power) has substantially different effects on people than those affected by the 13x13 trick.
3) Suppression/destruction of "good" in the person. As Silvertip mentioned, this somehow always ends making the victim loyal "to the Shadow" instead of some other flavor of evil?

I'm hopeful of a Rand at the Black Tower scene that describes his Darkfriend-sense that sheds more Light (hyuck) on the 13x13 victim's situation. Also, likely I've missed a boatload of theories on this one, so apologies to the dead horse if this has already been hashed out.
Kristi Deming
46. tigana0118
As for the Linking and male initiating a Circle:

"'Then link with me. The pair of us linked would be more than a match for al'Thor. Let that be the beginning of our new standing together.' His scar tightened as he smiled at the sudden blankness on her face. The link had to come from her, but with only the two of them, she would have to give him control and trust him to choose when to end it."

(LoC, ch 6, "Threads Woven of Shadow", pg 178)


And also this (from http://library.tarvalon.net/index.php?title=Linking_Information ):

"When the circle contains seventy-two members, or when it only contains one man and one woman, or for most circles of up to thirteen that have more than one man, the leader must be one of the men. Except for these combinations, one of the women must lead when there is a minimum number of men."

It also has a nicely done chart of all the possible combinations of a Circle up to the full 72, completely broken down.
Sawa
47. Typhoonclass17
Can the 13x13 trick be reversed?

I'm sure this has been brought up before in other conversations but a few of the above posts got my brain whirling...
If, lets say, victims of the 13x13 trick are synthetically evil; they didn't choose the shadow naturally it was forced on their soul similar to the taint on saidin, the DO's touch on the weather, the land etc.
In all these other cases the problem wasn't solved by destroying or eliminating the root, only by buffing out the DO's touch/taint and leaving the original whole and well was the problem solved.

Might Rand's new creatoresque powers i.e. walking light machine that brings whole orchards back to life, be able to clean up this synthetic evil that's corrupting the 13x13 victims? By use of the power or simply through realtive proximity and force of will?
Kristi Deming
48. tigana0118
@Typhoonclass17 RJ's comment about reversing being "Thirteened":

http://13depository.blogspot.nl/2009/03/tor-questions-of-week.html

"Week 15 Question: When a channeler is forcibly turned to the Dark, is his/her former personality lost to eternity? Are they in a permanent state of mindless Compulsion? Furthermore, can a channeler forcibly turned to the Dark return to the Light unaided?

Robert Jordan Answers: They are not in a mindless state of Compulsion. Their former personality is twisted, the darker elements that everyone has to some degree elevated while what might be called the good elements are largely suppressed. I don't mean things like courage, which is useful even to villains, but they are unlikely to be very charitable, for example, and forget any altruistic impulses. Call it being turned into a mirror image of yourself in many ways. It is very unlikely that a channeler forcibly turned to the Shadow could find a way back to the Light unaided. For one reason, by virtue of the twisting he or she had undergone, it is very unlikely that he or she would have any desire to do so."

Now he didn't say that someone "Thirteened" couldn't find a way back with aid! He only specifies that it can't be done unaided.


That being said, perhaps this is what Logain's upcoming "Honor and Glory" is going to be: being "Thirteened", finding a way back to the Light, and then helping the others...in essence, saving the Black Tower, most of the Asha'man and a number of Aes Sedai from the Shadow. And THEN grinding M'hael into dust! Now THAT would be pretty damn heroic!
Steve Antill
49. Stevros
Also a point on the linking Pevara, discusses how she teaches it to an Accepted, yet I thought based on the fact the Kin didn't know how to link (despite having some failed accepted), Egwene explaining to the novices what to do during the attack on the White Tower, and during the bubble of evil in Salidar, Anaiya again is explaining how.
Or is it only Novices that don't learn how to link?
Sawa
50. Finfan
My only issue with pronunciation was spelling Birgitte as Birgitta but that might be because my main language is Finnish and not English and funnily enough most WOT names seem to be spelled as if they were Finnish words and names which I assume is because people tend to find our accent as exotic. :)
The linking was desribed from a characters point of view and from an inexperienced (in linking of men and women) character at that, so naturally the event should feel odd from what we know about linking in general.
As someone not natively speaking English I think that the reading had a proper pace otherwise those not used to listening English would have to constantly skip back and forth.
Sawa
51. CorDarei
So what do deaf people do with Audio books? They get left out from things that aren't transcribed?
Sawa
52. TJM
you should just release a chapter a week and then by january we'd have half the book left!
Jonathan Levy
53. JonathanLevy
41. Luckers

It is not an example of a typical change which he feels free to make. It is an example of an extreme change (not a typical one) which got slapped down very strongly (which probably means he no longer feels free to suggest such extreme changes).

In other words, it was beyond the limit of his freedom, rather than a typical example of it.

I'm not saying that he doesn't have a lot of freedom, mind you - I'm just saying this isn't a good example of the type of freedom he has.
Terry McNamee
54. macster
Re: the slow pace--while I can understand why people would be annoyed/startled, especially after the almost frantic pace of the prologue and Chapter 1, not everything in the book can be action. And not only was the Androl/Pevara scene completely necessary for the eventual Black/White Tower alliance, and showing something many of us have been wanting for a long time (a window into the Black Tower), I loved it. Because, in the words of Alliandre, the whole interaction is bloody fascinating.

It makes perfect sense that the two of them would be so slow, gradual, and cautious in their detente, that her ingrained revulsion toward a male channeler, and his distrust of an Aes Sedai from the Ajah specifically created to hunt down and gentle his kind, would make it very hard for them to become friends or allies. At the same time, the way she speaks about her dead family vs. Androl talking about his, the way they almost bond over the leatherworking, how he quite accurately explains why he cannot trust her while she just as accurately explains (after admitting the truth!) how the Red's views can and must change if the taint is really gone...it's perfect, really. This slowly developing relationship is really a microcosm of the whole Red Ajah/Asha'man, White/Black Tower dichotomy that will be so key to the Last Battle and the world after it, so watching it happen slowly like this is absolutely essential--it'd be out-of-character for it to happen at the same pace as the start of the book, and is one of the most realistic and character-driven moments I've seen in the series--certainly in Sanderson's contributions. Needless to say, I'm wowed.

The fact all of this is just the backdrop to the added bonus of the circle which lets Pevara see the taint is cleansed (even if she still doesn't believe it yet) and the double-Warder/Wife bond is even more amazing. I loved each of their reactions to the other's half of the Power. I loved Androl's wonder and how he kept drawing on more saidar, even as I felt so sorry for panicking Pevara and knew it was going to blow up in Androl's face. I understood exactly why Pevara did as she did, even as I knew it was the absolute worst thing she could do. And while I was taken by surprise by both bonds, it made perfect sense in retrospect. I have to wonder, despite the inherent feedback effects, whether this sort of thing will become common practice for Reds and their Asha'Warders...or for that matter, all Aes Sedai with male channeler Warders. So many possibilities from this, both good and bad!

Re: the 13 x 13: despite how Jordan describes it as having your worst traits increased and your good ones suppressed so that you turn into a dark mirror of yourself, I suspect the footer prophecy from ToM explains what's going on and why they are 'evil' instead of merely dark and twisted but independent: "He shall take our eyes, for our souls shall bow before Him, and He shall take our skin, for our flesh shall serve Him, and He shall take our lips, for only Him will we praise." This would seem to lend credence to the theory that Darkfriend souls are being placed in their bodies, but it could also be as simple as the Dark One himself placing his essence into their bodies, perhaps similarly to how he invests himself in Shaidar Haran, which would also explain why they are evil. This also suggests Rand's Light-filled presence may indeed be helpful in saving and turning them back, since it could drive out those possessing souls/the Dark One's essence.

That ending was indeed horribly ominous and foreboding, but I have to wonder if things are what they seem. Yes, it's possible Logain could get turned, figure out from within how to break free, and then do so and turn everyone else back too. But it could also be he's merely told Taim what he wants to hear, claimed he will unite with him/be turned, but at this meeting where he will "prove" it, he'll actually do something to change everyone back and/or attack Taim. We shall see...

Loved loved loved Aviendha's scene, even if nothing particularly important happened. First, seeing her sneak into the camp, with her snarky running commentary which hearkened in many ways back to her earliest characterization, coupled with how she nonchalantly slipped into the tent and waited for Elayne to notice her was hilarious, and Elayne's sudden realization along with that curse was one of the funniest things I've ever read. And Aviendha, of course, doesn't even understand what she did wrong or why Elayne reacted as she did. On a side note, Elayne is utterly badass--that moment when she swore she would make the Shadow pay gave me chills, and Elayne has never done that for me before (except when she stood up to Merilille, and this is so many degrees above that it isn't funny). And I loved her little comment on how good Rand's become at Daes Dae'mar and being a king--nice callback to the training she gave him in the Stone.

Methinks that her troops and the Aiel she eventually sends to take the Waygate will need the help of an Ogier. Perhaps Loial will show up in the nick of time (with an army of his people behind him, properly shamed into joining everyone else for the Last Battle)? And it makes perfect sense that Hanlon wasn't the only White Lion to hang around and claim to be loyal to Elayne all for the purpose of betraying them. I wonder, though, if the soldiers doing so was at Hanlon's behest, since he is currently at large after the breakout?

The cliffhanger with Min wasn't nearly as powerful as the Black Tower one, but I do wonder what will happen when the three women finally meet up. And what does Aviendha mean by saying that the fact Min helped her become a Wise One "might mean she could waive the usual response" (or whatever her exact words were)? What usual response? I thought that once women agreed they would share a man, there was no longer any animus between them, and that the viewing had already been explained to her. So what could there have been for Aviendha to do, and why did she have to waive it?

Last note: aside from the explanations already given on why Pevara couldn't initiate the link and Androl could (inexperience, him starting it and taking control at the same time, a new way to link he discovered which they didn't know was possible, and so on), here's one more thing to consider: the other main example brought up of a man and woman linking, Nynaeve and Rand at the Cleansing, can't really compare to Androl and Pevara. Nynaeve trusted Rand, while Pevara was only trying to determine if the taint was cleansed and prove she could be trusted by Androl. Nynaeve saw Rand grow up, knew he wasn't (that) mad, and was a Yellow focused on Healing while Pevara, for all her willingness to change, be open-minded, and help save everyone at the Black Tower, is still a Red who can't help fearing and being disgusted by saidin. So it may well be that even though she is a good person and trying to do the right thing, her innate prejudice is making her resist the linking, thus allowing Androl to do it (and take control) instead, while Nynaeve had nothing like that to keep her from linking with Rand.

So much meat here to chew, as opposed to the froth and sweetness of the action which came before this. Can't wait till January!

EDIT, because it just occurred to me: Any guesses on what the icon for this chapter will be? I'm betting it's the Dragon's Fang--it's not just the symbol of saidin, but it has been used in the past to symbolize Darkfriends/the Shadow, which applies to both the 13 x 13ed people and the White Lions Elayne mentioned.
Kaz Johnstone
55. ledzepp14
OH MY GOD I CANNOT WAIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
James Luckman
56. Luckers
@JonathanLevy Sorry, I forgot you weren't there and the transcripts not precisely clear. He wasn't listing it as an extreme change, he offered it as an average example of the sort of things he'd suggested that was made funny by the extremity of Harriet's reaction to it. His entire point, the reason he even began talking about it, was that he was trying to explain the degree of his creative freedom.
Alan Courchene
57. Majicou
@32: Wow, I'd never tried the faster-playback option on my iPod before, and now I know why. It sounds mechanical and loaded with digital artifacts. Not something I could ever tolerate, even if it got me through CoT in 13 hours.
Ed Dyer
58. HumbleReader
I have listened to all of the audiobooks, and while I do hear some variation from the early books to the later ones, I find them quite enjoyable for my daily commute (40-60 minutes.)

On another note, you may have noticed from Brandon's tweets and website that he is on his way to Halifax for Hal-Con (hal-con dot com) this weekend. I am hoping to get into town on Sunday for his signing and for his Q&A session. Any suggestions on what to ask, if I get the chance? May I mention your screen-names?
Alice Arneson
59. Wetlandernw
Tell him hi from Wetlander, and ask him if Nakomi is an expert in Tel'Aran'Rhiod. :)

I wish I could think of a better way to ask some of the questions I have, but they'd all get RAFO'd in their current form. That one probably will too, but it's worth a shot to get his reaction, if nothing else.
Sawa
60. Arila
I wonder really if the whole linking "discontinuity" is yet another example of the relative trustworthiness of the narrators in the series. Since we never get a completely neutral 3rd person omniscient viewpoint - always viewpoints from "real" and possibly inaccurate characters (including the world of the wheel - written by some 4th age historian, I thought?), it could be that what "every body *knows*" about linking is incorrect. Given how driven Aes Sedai can be by tradition stronger than law, and the extreme reaction Pevara had to Androl's Saidin-style *siezing* compared with her exclusive Saidar experience *surrendering*, maybe when channeling was first discovered, it became Tradition that you just didn't do that, and therefore it became forgotten that it was possible.

I guess I am a little surprised by Androl's technique actually working the first time. I thought that trying to force Saidar usually resulted in something a lot like water flowing back out between your fingers -- or Rand's experience, suddenly drowning in the deep currents. Without having discussed the differences before hand, he must have gotten really lucky to adjust that fast...Maybe it's that finesse that comes from being a master craftsman that helps out, or maybe that's part of why he's so weak in Saidin, he has a more Saidar like touch?

I don't think it's the first time that our 3rd age-ers discovered something new or proved the AOLers assumptions to be faulty, but that's just an impression I have - no text backup - I'm not as super-duper up to speed as some of you WOTers.
Roger Powell
61. forkroot
Luckers@56 - If Brandon was truly considering having Perrin take up the Way of the Leaf (count me skeptical), then everything that Freelancer has said about Harriet's careful guardianship of RJ's legacy is true, true, true!

Just to make myself clear here - I am not skeptical that Brandon was using that as an example - I am skeptical that he would ever have seriously considered that change.
Roger Powell
62. forkroot
HumbleReader@58
During Rand's trip through the Aiel way-back machine, he sees an Aes Sedai come relieve the Aiel of some of the more powerful artifacts, including a sa'angreal. Please ask Brandon if that Aes Sedai was named "Vora"?
Sawa
63. BernieTail
Really the whole 13X13 thing is by far the weakest premise in WOT. All you need is one aes sedai a few thousand years ago turned, who then captures another sister to be turned and then so on until the white tower is full of black ajah and the world is doomed. What is the point of that? You don't need some secret evil society in the shadows, working their evil machinations in a way that doesn't alert the goodies when you can take out the oppisition one by one. If you could do it all along and cause chaos in the good ranks why the hell wouldn't you do it from the get go? Ridiculous.
Roger Powell
64. forkroot
@63
Huh? One Aes Seda1?

You would need 13 Aes Sedai - plus you need to round up 13 Myrrdraal. You need to capture your victim and perform the "conversion" without the victim being rescued -- it's not like you could just run around and do this without being attacked by forces of the Light, especially once word got out that forces of the Dark were doing this. You can't convert someone and send them back to their previous position (unlike an ordinary Black Ajah member whose allegiance is a secret.) It's clear from the text that the change in the person is obvious and chilling.

In order to turn out dreadlords on a "production" level, you'd need to have one of two situations: Either the channelers you were turning were not missed by their friends/families or you had a captive pool of channelers you could gradually convert without them getting help.

Whaddya know? Case #1 just happens to match the Samma N'Sei while case #2 pretty much describes what's going in in the Black Tower. Hmmm... seems to me that the concept and plot was pretty well thought out. What a surprise!
Sawa
65. alreadymadwithlinking
Stevros @49
There must be a specific point at which it is taught before Accepted gain the shawl, otherwise the Aes Sedai will have less than standard set of skills. However, this is not to say that all Accepted are taught the technique right away. As usual with Aes Sedai, the distribution of skills can be inconsistent.

forkroot @62
I kinda thought the same thing.
Sawa
66. MKL
This woman's voice is annoying and the reading is over-dramatized. I would not want to listen to it for the entire book.
Jonathan Levy
67. JonathanLevy
56. Luckers

Ah, that puts a different light on it. I knew I couldn't trust that Luckers guy :)

62. forkroot

Clever question - I hope he answers it!
CG
68. Wordsgood
Is there a text version of this preview?
Sawa
69. BernieTail
@64..you need to read the post a bit closer i think. I said all you would need is one aes sedai turned (the implication being that they already have 13 black ajah in hand otherwise you cannot turn the first one), who then helps in capturing / turning another and so on (one of the secret black ajah could do the actual capturing so they don't give away the creepy eyed newly turned one). And as most aes sedai are out and about travelling it wouldnt be to hard to corner one to get the ball rolling (and they wouldn't have to go back to their position because they are travelling and not in tar valon). By the time the good aes sedai are aware of whats happening it would be too late. And rounding up 13 myrddraal would be a piece of cake. And no, it's not a suprise it wasn't well thought out. There are an arseload of premises in the series that fall through, but given the sheer size of the WOT that is not a suprise as it would almost be inhuman to compose something of that grandeur and not fall through on some logic / continuity points. Try not to be so snippy in your arguments, they are after all your opinions, just as my comments are mine.
michael gaston
70. Ashenladoka
In 3000 years all the AS could have been converted fairly easily. The only problem would have been the WT and as a tactician that could have been completed too, although maybe with some difficulty with some sisters. Also the problem I have with the 13x13 now popping up. Just seems like a major waste for the Shadow not to have used a little thought in it and employ it effectively. We all know that there are way more than 13 Black Ajah and like BernieTail pointed out, usually several AS are running around Randland at any given moment. In 3000 years with the AS power and the right manipulation most of Randland could have been in the Shadow prior to the Dragon being Reborn. Would haev been a totally different series though so I'm not too ticked about it.
Alice Arneson
71. Wetlandernw
BernieTail @69 - But assuming you have plenty of BA, where did you get the 13 Myrddraal in the first place? Aside from the fact that forkroot wasn't being snippy, it's not a small question.

The problem with free use of the 13/13/turn has always been the Myrddraal.

If you happen to be a Forsaken, no problem - they obey. Even then, it's not necessarily a quick thing, if Be'lal's scenario is anything to go by. And if you're anything less (a mere Dreadlord, for example), you have to have something they want, because they are not in any way obligated to do what you want. And if they decide they don't like you and don't want you around, you might have a little... difficulty on your hands. Especially if you're female.

In addition, we really don't know what effect the process has on the Myrddraal. Does it take something out of them? Does it hurt? Is it a complete sacrifice - a one-time use per Myrddraal? I doubt that last, but it's not likely to be a pleasant thing for them either. In the absence of actual information, it's a little hard to determine how difficult it would be to obtain the willing cooperation of 13 (or more) Myrddraal.

Ever since the Trolloc Wars, there have been Black Ajah, so finding the 13 Aes Sedai (assuming you had the right connections - i.e. you were head of their Council) wouldn't be too much of a challenge. Finding the Myrddraal for them to channel through? That's a mite tougher. And I think that's the reason it hasn't been a factor; until very recently (book time) the only person with real control of the Myrddraal since the SaSG has been Ishamael, and he plays his own game for his own (sometimes inscrutable) reasons.

So there you have 2000 years, with plenty of BA but no control over the Myrddraal; it hasn't been used for lack of a key ingredient. There's also the question of just how many people actually knew how to work the trick. Knowing it can be done and knowing how to do it might not be the same thing, even if you could convince the Myrddraal to cooperate.

I think the reason it's finally showing up in significant use is that Taim's mentor gave him the instructions and the Myrddraal - or possibly, the DO did so, depending on when Taim went to Shayol Ghul to become Chosen. Until the Black Tower developed and Taim was raised to a certain level of trust (on Team Dark), the men couldn't be used. Mesaana and Halima were the only others with ready access to BA, and they were both in situations where production-level use of the process couldn't help but be noticed.

Apparently there was an initial attempt (TDR) at at bringing the pieces together in Tear, but that was first delayed by the lack of sufficient Myrddraal (if Liandrin & co. can be believed) and then by the capture/scattering of the 13 BA and the coincidental incursions of the Stone. Had Be'lal succeeded in bringing both sets of 13 together with enough time to do the job (whatever that takes), the Supergirls might have been the first experimental victims, followed by Moiraine.
Sawa
72. Coreyartus
Meh--I just enjoy hearing the books. I haven't "read" a single one--for me, Kate and Michael are the voices of Wheel of Time. It's a delightful joy to hear them narrate again--they add such personality and character to the books that I can't do when I read books myself. This was a real pleasure, and I look forward to hearing more of the book.

For all you continuity-pickers, perhaps you should let things go until you actually have the entire book at your disposal... Trying to disect "right/wrong" is a pointless exercise, and while it's fun in the short term it's not exactly helpful without the whole book a your disposal to determine if you're conclusions are accurate...

And for those who don't like audiobooks--well, I guess this post wasn't for you. There are plenty of others you can revel in, but this one was for the fans of the narration. And as one of *those* fans, I gotta say it was consistent, brilliant, and highly enjoyable. Congrats to Tor for releasing a WHOLE CHAPTER like this!!! Kudos!! I got turned on to Jordan by Reading and Kramer, and this bit just reinforces why I think the whole package is a wonderful purchase! I'm looking forward to losing myself in their performances. Thank-you Tor!!!
Sawa
73. Cosma
Forget the linking, it's too small to really matter for me at this point in the series.
My question is...What the hell is Logains game....why would he agree/ make up with Taim ?!?!
Sawa
74. CorDarei
speaking of pronounciations... Nynaeve.... since i first started reading have pronounced it Nye-ehv-ee (long e).

and yes, there are text based versions. just hard to find :P
Alice Arneson
75. Wetlandernw
CorDarei - according to Team Jordan, it's NIGH-neev. Just in case you care how RJ pronounced it.
Roger Powell
76. forkroot
Regarding the Shadow using turning: I think the key concern is the fact that the turned individual is recognizable as "turned". Through most of Randland's recent history, followers of the Shadow have been, of necessity, secret. If you could turn someone and he/she would be otherwise undetectable, then I think that BernieTail's (and Ashenladoka's) question indeed becomes a problem for the text.

In fact, it's certainly possible that RJ hadn't considered that ramification. I agree with BernieTail's suggestion that a world-building of the size of WoT is almost impossible to make perfectly consistent: witness the discussions we've had previously with circular time and cuendillar, etc.

The 13x13 concept is introduced in TDR, but no mention is made (one way or the other) that the "turned" individual is detectable. Clearly though, the concept was being set up for use in the plot (RJ did this sort of foreshadowing a lot! My current personal reread has uncovered even more.)

It's not a stretch to think that Brandon added in the "detectability" as a minor retcon precisely to counter the scenarios that BernieTail and Ashenladoka put forth. We'll never know though, unless he were to tell us that.
Jonathan Levy
77. JonathanLevy
69. BernieTail
70. Ashenladoka
71. Wetlandernw

There's another element to consider here: the Turning success rate. Just because a person has been 'turned' doesn't guarantee he will join the shadow. Yes, it brings out the worst of your personality, but that doesn't mean it makes you bad enough to be a darkfriend.

The Black Tower had a high casualty rate attributed to attrition, and in addition many names were added to the traitor's list. A likely explanation is that some of these were people whom Taim attempted to Turn, but failed one way or another. Turning people might be far from foolproof.

That point aside, I don't see how the whole tower could be converted without someone catching on at an early stage. If you abscond wandering Aes Sedai, at some point someone in the tower will notice and take action. If you grab people in the Tower, then their Turning will be immediately noticeable and an investigation will uncover you; if they leave, then a string of unexplained absences will also trigger an investigation.

I think the likeliest explanation for not having used it in the past is lack of knowledge of the weave (known only to Forsaken) or additional complications unknown to us (e.g. the process kills the myrdraal, which makes their voluntary cooperation unlikely). As for the inability to find 13 fades in TDR, at this point it seems to me like a second-rate plot tool to explain a delay, though of course future revelations might put it in a better light.

76. forkroot

I agree with all your points.
Roger Powell
78. forkroot
JonathanLevy@77
Some nice points, especially about the difficulty of trying to "turn" the Tower.

Question: Do we have any reason to believe that the "turning" success rate is less than 100%? I don't think that the early Darkfriends in the BT (Rochaid, et al) were "turned" - I think they were recruited. They didn't have the "dead-eye" look that people who have been turned have (e.g. Tarna or the Samma 'N Sei.)

I'm inclined to believe that men on Taim's traitors list were just Ashaman who either fled or got on his bad side (like Flinn, Narishma, etc.) I also suspect that the BT "turning factory" didn't get going until the physical wall and dreamspike were in place - guaranteeing that people like Androl couldn't escape to warn Team Light.
Sawa
79. BernieTail
Good points forkroot and jonathon levy re turning. I still don't really like the concept as I don't think it adds to the story too much and I still think it would be possible to turn a lot of aes sedai in short amount of time away from the tower and then the internal black ajah lead a coup to take the rest (there were what 200 black ajah when they were Verin'd.?). I think they had enough numbers to do a coup in the last few hundred years, particularly if you add in turning most of the travelling aes sedai. The only way in my head it didn't happen was that the black ajah didn't want more people on their side cause they are selfish and don't want more competition for power and immortality. What is the point of being a baddy if you can't lord it over some goody two shoes schmuck and make them a slave? Someone has to muck out the stables and clean the privy.
I still find it amazing sometimes how many people discuss literary works of this nature. As a scientist I do it all the time over a lot of concepts that exist in the universe. But this is discussing a universe in someone else's head. I don't think that reflects that the readers of works like WOT a reclusive nerds with too much time on their hands. Rather to me it reflects the fact that WOT is so thought prolong and interesting that people generally enjoy dissecting and discussing it. That is why talk of there will be no more WOT novels if a bit distressing. I don't think getting the Outrigger and prequels out heir is besmirching Jordan's memory or anything. He loved telling stories and provided those novels were written with passion and forethought, it would simply be a case of telling more stories from a world that interests a lot of people and is therefore not some money grubbing exercise. Pretty sure they will never be published but To quote Pr Farnsworth, 'a man can dream though. A man can dream'.
Roger Powell
80. forkroot
Yeah - I don't care about the Outriggers so much, but I would be willing to abase myself and beg if it would get Harriet/Brandon to relent and do Tam's prequel.
Jonathan Levy
81. JonathanLevy
78.forkroot
Question: Do we have any reason to believe that the "turning" success rate is less than 100%?
Two inconclusive reasons, I think.

One: Jordan has left open the possibility that a Turned person might forsake the Shadow, even though he probably will need some help to do so.

Two: The precautions which Taim takes before starting his project.
I don't think that the early Darkfriends in the BT (Rochaid, et al) were "turned" - I think they were recruited. They didn't have the "dead-eye" look that people who have been turned have
I agree that this is the more likely interpretation. But it's important to note that the 'dead-eye' look is only obvious to people who knew the original person. So if the recruiting party recruits people one at a time, it might be easy to Turn them while recruiting them or soon after, and no-one in the BT would be the wiser. If they resist, or prove unreliable even after being Turned, Taim either poisons their wine and says they went mad, or disposes of their body and calls them a traitor.

It would also explain why the Two Rivers channelers are in general not part of Taim's coterie; they were recruited as a group, which would make it more difficult to Turn.

However, I agree that there are many plot elements (the Dreamspike in particular) which tend more towards the interpretation that the Turning Factory started in ToM and not before.
Sawa
82. matei
i don't think the shadow had the coordonation and centralized control to pull such a stunt, a plan to "turn" all the good channelers one by one.

they didn't have leaders.
even the forsaken didn't work together but each in his own, untill moridin, as nae'bliss, forced them to.
like RJ said, the DO enjoyed letting his minions constantly compete against each other
Chris Chriserson
83. Captchas_are_annoying
Loved the chapter, and thought the narrator did a really good job. The voices were nuanced and the pace was even enough to understand easily. Job well done.

As far as turning is concerned: I think it should be pointed out that the Black Ajah WERE turning people one - just not 13x13ing them. They were doing the much simpler version of "swear the oaths to the Great Lord or we'll kill you." We've seen that's what happened to Verrin. That method is faster, easier, and indetectable.
Scientist, Father
84. Silvertip
forkroot @80:
Yeah - I don't care about the Outriggers so much, but I would be willing to abase myself and beg if it would get Harriet/Brandon to relent and do Tam's prequel.
Set up a schedule, we'll grovel in shifts. I'm in.

S

(Actually, think Team Jordan would be more likely to buy it at novella length? I actually thought NS worked better in the original than when expanded, so there's precedent ... )
Ed Dyer
85. HumbleReader
Hi everyone,

Just got back from Hal-Con. Shared an hour with about 500 of Brandon's fans in the Main Hall QandA session, got some questions answered. Brandon welcomed "Mr WOT reread guy" and others to join him at the signing session an hour later. Wow!!!!

Afterwards, found Brandon's table in the signing hall, watched him nearly lose a Magic Game. Then spent close to an hour across the table from Brandon while he signed books, answered questions, encouraged budding writers, and generally discussed WOT and Cosmir issues.

So I have some direct answers, and I hope an hour or two of recording to transcribe, if the quality is good enough. Brandon gave his OK.

But some of the answers are spoilerish, so I need to know - is this the right thread to present them, or is there a place that is more appropriate - if so, can you remind me where?

Oh, and for those who are "reading" rather than "listening", Brandon told me something that I missed completely on my "read" of the hardcover, and I missed it again and again while I listened because the audio does not include something... :-(

I'll start organizing my contribution while I await direction!!

-Ed
Alice Arneson
86. Wetlandernw
HumbleReader @85 - Glad you had such a great time! Hanging out at the table while Brandon signs books is a lot of fun, isn't it? :)

I'd say that unless there were actual spoilers for the remainder of the book, you should feel free to post everything here. Anyone on this thread has probably read the prologue & chapter 1 as well as listening to chapter 2, so nothing is going to be spoiled. If there's anything we haven't read about yet (which I can't quite imagine him saying) put it here, and then make that text white just before you post it. (Don't preview after you make it white, or it'll revert to black.)
Sam Mickel
88. Samadai
Humblereader,

Please post it here, I can't wait to read it
Sawa
89. schmat22
Yes, please post it here. I, too, can't wait to read it. I keep wondering what I will do with all of my spare time after we have read the final volume, and discussed it over and over. Can another epic be as fascinating?
Sawa
90. CorDarei
@75Wetlander

I know (and kinda care :P).
Alice Arneson
91. Wetlandernw
CorDarei - Yup. ;) It only matters if you listen to the audiobooks or want to carry on an actual conversation with other fans - then it's a drive-you-nuts thing.

One exception... (for me, anyway) I struggled for years to make myself say Juilin right, because of course my mind leapt to Julian and I knew that wasn't right. I nearly went crazy when he first came on the reread scene and people kept typing "Julian." NOOOooooooo.....!!!!! I worked so hard to rid myself of that, and now it was on the screen in front of me with every other comment!

Oh well. Some of us are just obsessive/compulsive about words. I think I'll go find a drink in the bunker and say "Juilin" about a hundred times to get it right again... ;)
Sawa
92. CorDarei
now if Humble will just post his Q&A session... all would be right with the world.
Sawa
94. CorDarei
of course. I'm a 7th degree Lurker(R)
michael gaston
95. Ashenladoka
Good points Fork and John. And the questions posed unfortunately may never get answered. But I just can't help thinking that it seems a little off to be having all this 13x13 happening now. Of course being my normal self I immediately started trying to plan out this attack if I was a DF and BA and I just see way too many instances where this could work. Not saying it WOULD, but just that it COULD.
As it’s been pointed out, maybe the success rate is the issue. Or the Fades were the stopping point. Maybe Ishy just didn’t allow it for some reason (dang it I wish I could get in HIS mind for a while). But we know that the AS knew the 13x13 turning was possible and obviously a real threat prior to the Forsaken being released. Not sure if it was done but it was a real to AS and channelers. Seems like Isam was hinting that it was going on for a while or maybe that was just my take on it.
As far as doing it? Say the Fades were willing (or forced) to do this. After waylaying several traveling AS then it’s all about the WT. Moving in troops obviously isn’t a problem if you have a few well placed AS (Suian’s stilling). Then it becomes a question of catching the correct AS. Almost like an infection. Attack and subdue the correct cells and force them to work for you. The Red’s would be prime targets due to no Warders and they are one of the largest Ajah’s, but several other AS would be vulnerable too.
Too many unknowns I know. But the attack is very do-able and would probably have a great success rate. Maybe not the whole WT but if you nab 20% - 30% that’s a heck of a hit. Sure they may all die in the attack but the Light AS would have losses too so 20% to turning then 20% to deaths defending the WT on the Light side (if you’re lucky and it’s not more). Close to half the WT being loss and I’m using conservative numbers. Couple that attack with more Trollocs at the same time and you’re talking about the loss of the WT. I’m glad it didn’t happen but I just see major problems with something like this NOT happening especially during the Trolloc Wars, when Hawkwing surrounded them, etc.
Sawa
96. Meh
Big defence against 13x13ing the whole Tower is the presence of Warders.

An alarm would be raised very quickly if an AS went missing and their Warder reported 'They are far to the north and in abject terror'. Wouldn't save the poor sucker involved, but it would alert the whole Tower to the 13x13ing.
michael gaston
97. Ashenladoka
True Meh. Which is the reason I said going after the Red Ajah would be ideal. But catching other AS wouldn’t be too difficult either. Most travel with their Warders and traditionally only the Green bond more than one Warder, so catching lone AS becomes relatively easy. A Sister she knows (BA Sister) stops her on the road. Another BA Sister shields the Light Sister. Warder is captured or killed, (not too sure here if any that have been 13x13’ed have had Warder’s and if anyone knows I’d like to cross that in my plans). So catching Sisters with Warder’s isn’t too difficult. And if your Ajah’s leader is a BA it makes it even easier. That leader sends the Light Sister and her Warder on a “mission” right into a trap.
Truthfully I’ve always wondered why the BA hasn’t just outright killed most of the Light Sister’s as I think I could plan out that scenario also. Just wondering about it since it seems so incorrect in the series this late in the game.
Sawa
98. alreadymadwithcircles
Just took the time to listen to it. On the whole the description of linking does not really contradict previous descriptions. It just gives more detail. Pevara's and Nynaeve's POV are actually the same. The feeling of being yanked and taken control of was the same. What is added now is the POV from the male as he takes control of the link.
Roger Powell
99. forkroot
Ashenladoka@97
Truthfully I’ve always wondered why the BA hasn’t just outright killed most of the Light Sister’s as I think I could plan out that scenario also.
It's quite possible that they had some sort of mass murder scenario planned. We've seen the Shadow pull some surprises, using deeply embedded Darkfriends -- specifically the scourging of Caemlyn.

What Team Dark didn't count on was Verin's fantastic project (yay Verin!) and Egwene's surprise purge of the BA.

OTOH - Even without the purge, we know the BA like most Darkfriends were not particularly good at cooperating with each other (a theme from the Forsaken on down.) In fact, there are statements from RJ explaining that one of the biggest things that has stopped Team Dark from winning (given it's initial enormous advantage) was the fact they turned on each other as much as anything.

Can you really imagine a "dabbler Darkfriend" like Sheriam participating in some ambush action where she had a good chance of being killed? Yes - but only under the direct "persuasion" of a Forsaken. In some sense the Forsaken have to drive Darkfriends the same way Myrrdraal have to drive Trollocs.
Alice Arneson
100. Wetlandernw
Don't forget, too, that this whole Last Battle/end of the Age business took the BA by surprise just as much as anyone else. They knew it was coming, but most of them didn't expect it to come in their lifetimes, and they weren't sure what to do about it until some Forsaken came along and took them over. In general, those who turn to the Shadow of their own accord are not going to be the sort who would want to share power; there's not that much incentive to force-turn lots of people to the Shadow - especially not ones that are stronger than you.
michael gaston
101. Ashenladoka
Very true points Fork and Wet...very true.
I guess it's just my devil’s advocate, plan mass murder DF bone that was flaring up again. Wondering WTH is wrong with them!?! Considering I get paid to develop What-if scenarios all day I just can’t help myself. It’s just the sheer idiotic nature of Team Dark that has me for a loss. I just want to jump into the pages sometimes kick them in the rump and scream “GET WITH THE PROGRAM DUMBASS!!!”
I suppose it's all fun and games to PLAN a revolt against the Light AS but the dabble-doers like Sheriam probably would have been repenting sins pretty fast without the Forsaken. I just assume there had to be a few TRUE believers in that mix and to hand the Shadow a captured WT would have given someone a crapload of power. Merean dropped a King and his son over a ledge for crying out loud!
Alice Arneson
102. Wetlandernw
Even among the Forsaken, the only "true believer" is Moridin, in some ways.

While it's true that some people go over because they just like being evil, like Semirhage, most of them do it for power or that petty "I know something you don't" feeling. Which is bound to make them pretty lame when the real deal comes along...
Sawa
103. CorDarei
man... what happened to Humblereader...
michael gaston
104. Ashenladoka
Maybe so. I just expected more out of them. A better showing of their desires for power and control at least. Let’s face it. The AS are as a whole a bunch of strong willed women and only slightly less strong (in some cases) as individuals. Doesn’t make them smart of course and neither is power in the Source equal to brains, but maybe ONE besides Taim could have made Forsaken level by destroying the WT or diminishing the Light AS at least.
I’ve always thought Ishy was more a tortured soul with the knowledge or belief that the Shadow would win. A believer yes but more like someone who knows that the outcome is certain (or thinks it is) and gave up his morals and ethics to make a place for himself. Not so much because he’s evil but because logic dictates conforming to the world in which he was suppose to live. Yes I know he has been evil for a while and is probably considered one of the ultimate evils in Randland, but I’m not too sure if going to the Shadow was his choice or was it the Patterns choice? And if it was the Patterns…then can he really be considered evil since it wasn’t what he would have done had he not been forced? The philosophical reasoning’s and looping logic models are endless!
Sawa
105. Vadik2009
I love how Aviendha was all like "I must have sex with Rand tonight! Maybe Min can join in"
Ed Dyer
106. HumbleReader
@103 CorDarei
I'm here, full day of training today... Anyway this is what I have transcribed (with Brandon's agreement) from the questions I was able to ask in the main Q-A session. There was more in the discussion at the Signing table - that will have to wait until I get a chance to transcribe some more, as well as more from this session...
BTW I think Brandon is playing Magic in Halifax tonight, because his flight to NYC got cancelled, along with 13000 other flights :-(
Oops, I see my bracketed comments didn't come through - editing...

Brandon Sanderson Q&A at Hal-Con
asked and transcribed 2012-10-28 by Humble Reader

(About 40 minutes in ... applause to answer on Writing Excuses Podcast)

Brandon: You clap after every question. You're always so polite. Must be Canada or something!
(laughter)
HR: I've been following the Wheel of Time Reread on Tor.com
B: Yes
HR: ...almost since the beginning. We were having a little discussion about ...
B: There are no little discussions there. I've dropped by before.
HR: So I happened to notice you were coming here to Halifax, so I said "Hey..."
B: Oh, OK... So say Hi to Freelancer and Wetlander and all those folks for me.
HR: Interestingly enough,
B: Oh, which one?
HR: The first one I got a response from was Wetlander...
B: OK!!
HR: And the second one was Forkroot.
B: OK!
HR: and the third I think was Johnathan Levy
B: OK! Let's do a few of these
HR: Wetlander says "Hi!, and ask him if Nakomi is an expert in Tel'Aran'Rhiod :)
B: OK, I don't like answering Nakomi questions, but she's very persistent on this, I will say Yes.... (laughter) Yes, Nakomi is an expert in the World of Dreams.
HR: Forkroot says "During Rand's Trip through the Aiel way-back machine"
B: Yes
HR: "He sees an Aes Sedai come to relieve the Aiel of some of the more powerful artifacts, including a sa'angreal.
B: Yes,
HR: Please ask Brandon if that Aes Sedai was named "Vora"?
B: ah ha ha ha ha ho ho, um, (long pause) I have to be really careful on these Wheel of Time questions, because, like, normally I can say, on my own books, I can say yes , or no, or things like that, but on the Wheel of Time books I have to be very careful, because there are often things embedded deeply in the notes, or things that Robert Jordan said in like 1996, or things like this... that I'm not always 100% aware of, and what I say never trumps what is in the notes or what Robert Jordan said. I think I can say "Yes" on this one without having to contradict anything. But Just in case, I will say, Maria is going to have to vet that one, before it's canon, but I think I can say yes.
HR: One question that came up was "How much harm comes to the participants in the 13x13 turning process?"
B: You will find out more about that either in future volumes of the Wheel of Time or in the Encyclopaedia.
HR: OH!
(applause)
HR: Thank you!
B: Thank you for the questions - are there others? ... How much time do we have left?
Moderator: Oh we have about 2 more minutes left if there are any more questions
B: OK we'll do that, and if there's any time and you've got more, Mr. Tor.Com Reread, feel free to, or just grab me at my table, I will be signing from 2 till 4, and usually everyone shows up at 2 and get's their book signed, and then I'm done by 3, so from 3 and 4 I'm usually there and can answer questions and things like that, and so if you have other questions, that's a good time to get them answered.
(Someone's question, then wrapup.)
----
That's all for tonight.
Janet Hopkins
107. JanDSedai
Okay, I forgot... what is the significance of the name "Vora"?
andrew smith
108. sillyslovene
wow, those are some pretty sweet answers. Kudos to Wet, seems like she's on (a) right path!

@107- Vora's wand is the sa'angrael that Egwene uses to defend the Tower from them Seanchan.
Ed Dyer
109. HumbleReader
Vora's sa'angreal was used to heal Mat in the Tower, and also used by Egwene and her circle of novices while defending the Tower. Otherwise, the question tells you just about everythng we know about her.
Eric Hughes
110. CireNaes
@HumbleReader

Thanks. Very kind of you to go through the effort of posting your conversation. I'm sure Wetlander will be pleased. BWS cracks me up. I didn't know tor.com had an official pageant...congratualations on the win, Mr. Tor.com. Perhaps a name change is in order.
Alice Arneson
111. Wetlandernw
@HumbleReader - Thank you!! I know it's a lot of work transcribing these things sometimes. And thanks for asking my question. :) Good answers there, for several good questions. Hmmm. More to think about now...
Ed Dyer
112. HumbleReader
@CireNaes
Oh, prithee nae, kind sir. 'Twould not be my role to usurp that of the great and wonderful Stubby.
-HR
Sawa
113. alreadymadwithsa'angreal
JanDSedai @107
Vora's Sa'angreal is also reputedly the most powerful female sa'angreal currently known. It's the big stick of the White Tower(pun totally intended).
Sawa
114. CorDarei
Woo! Thanks Humble.
Sawa
115. Typhoonclass17
Humble thanks for the Q&A info, I know transcribing can be time consuming especially trying to do verbatim correctly
Sam Mickel
116. Samadai
Humblereader,

Thank you, that was great stuff.
Theresa Gray
117. Terez27
HumbleReader,

If you'd like some help with the transcript, let me know...but I think some 17th shard folks might also be working on it. Coordination in these things is helpful. (I would have gotten this ball rolling last night but I was tired and didn't feel like it at the time.)

PS—If you prefer you can email me at terez27 at gmail dot com.
T C
118. Freelancer
HumbleReader,

Excellent work on getting real answers to several questions. Many "interrogators" of Brandon get mostly RAFOs. And isn't he just the most pleasant guy to deal with? Always does his best to take care of the fans, and never takes for granted someone who makes an effort to glean new information.

So thanks for your work, be sure that Wetlandernw and forkroot are more than pleased with positive responses.
Alice Arneson
119. Wetlandernw
Indeed! I honestly thought he'd RAFO that question, but it was the best I could think of to get near some of the discussion we'd had. I'm surprised, but very pleased, to get an answer - and a Yes, at that!
Alice Arneson
121. Wetlandernw
HumbleReader - Of course, I've been musing on this ever since you posted the transcription, and I have a question for you. I realize you may not be able to answer, and if you do, the answer is completely subjective, but I'll ask anyway.

Was there anything in Brandon's voice or demeanor to give you a clue as to whether Nakomi's being "expert in the World of Dreams" was a normal thing, like the Wise Ones (Bair or Amys/Dreamwalkers), or something tricky and unusual (Birgitte/Heroes)?

I think he has indirectly confirmed that the encounter between Aviendha and Nakomi did involve Tel'Aran'Rhiod, but left it open as to whether Aviendha was pulled in, or whether Nakomi brought the effect to her, or... something else we haven't caught yet. (I asked the question as I did in large part because I figured anything more specific would get an automatic RAFO, where this just might be general enough to get an answer.)
Sawa
122. baldur1974
Just release the book already...... Jeez...... Stocking stuffer anyone?
Roger Powell
124. forkroot
Humble Reader - Freelancer speaks truly @118:
So thanks for your work, be sure that Wetlandernw and forkroot are more than pleased with positive responses.
I was remiss in not thanking you sooner!

I also echo Freelancer's high opinion of Brandon's personal interaction skills. Which leads me (in my usual roundabout way) to a different topic:

Has anyone heard anything about a promotional/signing tour in conjunction with the release of AMoL? I am waiting to choose where to buy it based on the chance that he'll have a tour stop near me. Then, of course I'll patronize that retailer.
michael gaston
125. Ashenladoka
This may be a silly question and I've tried finding the answer but still can't. I know the WO say that if a person goes "in the flesh" into TAR they lose a little of themselves and it's an evil thing. But my question is what happens if someone goes into TAR and STAYS in TAR in the flesh...not sleeping like Perrin/Eg's/WO do. How long can you survive in TAR that way since time is different? I've always thought maybe that's how Ishy did it somehow but...I just can't find that answer and with Wet's questions of TAR and Nakomi is her going into TAR and waiting a valid theory?
Alice Arneson
126. Wetlandernw
forkroot - Baby Sanderson #3 is due just a few days (correction: 2 weeks, but will likely be early) after AMoL comes out, so the tour is going to be a bit dodgy. He'll do the release party and a few more stops, take three weeks (I think) off, and then do the rest of the grand tour. No announcements yet, at least that I've seen, of where he'll be or when - except the release party in Provo.

ETA: After checking the newsletter again, he's taking January 13-31 off for parenting duties, and will do the rest of the tour in February. I expect they'll announce the tour schedule sometime in the next month or so. Which doesn't help you much, does it?
Ed Dyer
127. HumbleReader
@121 Wetlander
I was so surprised to get an absolute yes, that I think I lost my concentration a bit, but let me go back and review the recording....
FWIW Brandon told me at the signing session an hour later that he doesn't like to give RAFO's before a general audience, as most of the audience isn't "in on the joke." I'll try to get some transcription of that session done on the weekend. Four more Fridays. Anyway, I have listened again, and what I hear is the "I don't like to answer questions about Nakomi" comment - I'm not sure what that means, but based on history of past Q&A sessions, I suspect he is concerned that he not mislead us with his answer. So IMHO it was a combination of a sufficiently general question, as you said, and Brandon was reallyenjoying himself at this point, about 45 minutes into a session that was clearly going very well. So he was at ease revealing more than he might have otherwise, especially to this rube from the country all spiffed up in his Sunday best :-)

If I were to take a stab at your question, though, I did not get a sense of why he wanted to keep Nakomi back.

Perhaps she has a role to play in AMOL, and this is a significant foreshadowing in terms of T'A'R. Do you get the feeling that there is still a lot we don't know about manipulating that world? Will this be important to Rand's meeting with the Dark One, which several have suggested will be in T'A'R?

On the other hand, it was interesting how quickly and brightly he jumped in on me while I was introducing the question - he seemed quite excited to have a chance to grapple with something challenging from the re-read group :-)

It seemed to me that Brandon's response to forkroot's question - with a series of chuckles fading to um and a long pause (after 6 or 7 seconds the audience started to laugh nervously, and it was several more seconds before he was ready to answer) - seemed to indicate that we had really caught him by surprise. His long disclaimer and explanation seemed to give hime a chance to think it through, and then he came up with a provisional yes - that's two for two!

The third question, which was inspired by your discussion on the 13x13 damage: Wetlandernw@71 (4th paragraph) and JonathanLevy's response @77 drew effectively a RAFO, if nicely presented, so we didn't get another yes. Still, what do you make of the clear plural "future volumes of the Wheel of Time" ? It was so clear to me that I don't think it was a mistake. I may try to draw Brandon out on this on Twitter, to confirm. I sent him a link to this discussion after posting my transcript above @106.

Have you heard whether Brandon is doing a Q&A or readings in Toronto? I know he is planning a signing on Saturday.

Anyway, time to call it a night - it's past midnight already :-)
Roger Powell
128. forkroot
Wetlandernw@126
I expect they'll announce the tour schedule sometime in the next month or so. Which doesn't help you much, does it?
As long as they announce the tour before January 8th, I will wait to choose the retail outlet that I buy the book from. If Brandon is going to come to a local retailer, then I'd buy the book and bring it back for the signing.
Alice Arneson
129. Wetlandernw
forkroot @128 - That makes sense. The bright side of the delayed tour is that most of us will have time to actually read the book before we go to the signings. :)

Ash @125 – I can’t find proof (or even vague evidence) one way or the other. My suspicion is that, unless you bring real food along when you enter TAR in the flesh, what you “make” to eat there would give no real nourishment. I don’t know that, though, and can’t find any verification. I don’t think we’ve seen anyone stay there in the flesh long enough to care, yet. Egwene figured out that she could make her dream-Bela run like the wind, so she was only there for a few hours or so, and Rand hasn't done much there but fight. Perrin is a real pro, but IIRC he's never been there in the flesh. As a Wolfbrother he seems to have the choice of how strongly to be there, to the point that his physical body can suffer from his absence, but he always leaves his body sleeping somewhere, so he's not much help. (Having said all that, I have to also say that I didn't do an exhaustive search; I looked up what I could find about the times I remembered someone eating, or being there in the flesh, which may not be a complete listing...)

HumbleReader @127 – Thanks! For a little clarification, I think Brandon doesn’t want to answer much more about Nakomi, not so much because she herself is such a key, but because who she is and what she represents will have a significant effect on the future of the Aiel. Since that’s got to have a resolution in AMoL, he doesn’t want to give away any more about her identity. I thought maybe by asking the question that way, he’d satisfy our curiosity as to whether TAR was involved (as opposed to mirror worlds or ghosties) without having to give away (or RAFO) something that had to do with who/what she is. It could be that TAR is the important part that he’s reluctant to give away, but I think it’s more likely that Nakomi’s history is the issue. Still, I do think TAR will play a significant role in the final book, so you never know.

If I’m right, and the Jenn have been observing the other Aiel for a couple of thousand years, and it’s going to matter in AMoL, that’s something he can’t give away. With Brandon, he will sometimes give you non-verbal cues in his reaction – he’d make a terrible Aes Sedai – and I thought it was possible that if Nakomi were a Hero-like figure who basically existed in TAR (like Birgitte, etc.), he might have given that sort of “that’s an understatement” vibe with the “Yes, she’s an expert.” I think he’s less likely to do that in front of a whole audience than at the signing table, though.

He really enjoys this group; as he said, he drops in once in a while, as does his assistant Peter Ahlstrom. Because we discuss things so much (as opposed to merely arguing, generally), there are a lot of really good questions developed here. Freelancer and I have both had the wonderful opportunity of hanging out at the end of a signing, asking questions and chatting with other diehards, and as you know, it’s a lot of fun. Last time, I brought a list of questions collected from this group, carefully thought through to be intelligible questions, and he loved them. He RAFO’d a few, but mostly in such a way as to say, “That was a good question, and you will love reading the answer in AMoL.” (I’m not sure any of them originated with me that time, but I got the fun of asking them!)

“Future volumes” in the plural… I don’t quite know what to think. We’ve been hearing for a long time that once AMoL is finished, Harriet will publish the Encyclopedia, and that’s all there will be; they didn’t feel that RJ’s notes were sufficiently detailed to support the other prequels or the outriggers, and Harriet didn’t want to publish anything that wouldn’t stand up well alongside what’s already done. Most of us have (sadly) set it aside as wishful thinking, but it sure would be fun to get more! It’s worth the follow-up, anyway!

As far as Toronto… he’s at World Fantasy for the weekend and doing a signing in Markham on Saturday; while I don’t see any indication that he’s doing a big Q&A, he always answers questions while signing. Generally he’ll answer a couple questions per person as he signs their book(s), so if you don’t have a book to be signed or you have lots of questions, you can hang around until everyone with a book has had their turn and then ask. He often signs a bunch of stock for the bookstore, and that’s a great time for general questions and discussion. I think if I were going to a signing that was just that, with no reading or Q&A, I’d show up about 30-45 minutes before the scheduled end, and see if the crowd has thinned.

Thanks again giving us the opportunity to send questions, and I’m glad you got to have the fun of hanging out and being “Mr. WoT Reread Guy!”
Ed Dyer
130. HumbleReader
@129 Wetlandernw

As you said about being in front of a whole audience, I didn't read anything by way of body language in his answer to your question - although I thought at the time it was curious that he repeated himself, once using the old tongue name and once the "World of Dreams". I'm afraid I can't read whether that was just for the benefit of the non-WoT fans, or whether it was a kind of emphasis, or both.

Anyway, as you said, the pleasure in hearing from "us" was certainly clear in his tone and instant uptake, almost prompting for my next word :-) It was indeed a joy. Too bad it was my first time for doing this - I'm afraid I might have missed something.

What I also missed was his reading session, and I heard that he did read a WoT excerpt along with pieces from his "own" books.

At the signing he mentioned that because of Canada Customs he wasn't able to bring in any books with him. But someone brought a copy of "The Emperor's Soul" for signing which he said was the first copy he had heard of "in the wild" outside of the USA. Official release date was Tuesday this week, I think.

The strategy of coming in to the signing half way through certainly worked - there he was losing a game of Magic, and with a lucky draw and good cards he pulled ahead and won. Then got more time than I needed with him, as he signed for others, and worried about his flight to NYC which got cancelled, and shared discussion with others. Just wish I had had time to pull together more "good" questions, but I was totally surprised when my son messaged me earlier in the week that Brandon would be in Halifax.

As you say, it was indeed fun! An event not to be missed!
Chris R
131. up2stuff
The 13 x 13 factory...
The DO's prison was much stronger during the Trolloc Wars. I wonder if it was just not deemed worth the effort when a simple DF would do.

Seems like with the DO bound so firmly until recently, there was not as much that could be accomplished. Whereas recently, with the DO and the FS breaking loose, it was time for Team Dark to make a move. More powerful and proficient subordinates were necessary all of a sudden by the Forsaken.

It just may not have been worth the effort. I always imagined the process to be lengthy, with the possiblity of the victim dying while being "upgraded." Plus as Wet said, if 13 Myrdrall are "spent" to turn one person forcibly, it would probably not be worth the cost of hunting down one random male channeler when the Aiel males come running straight to you. Keep the supplies close together.

You know, I'm wondering... Did we ever settle if it was 13 female channelers or just 13 channelers. I'm suddenly struck by need for 13 in both turning and sheilding. If 13 women link, they can sheild any man and I THINK any woman, no matter how strong. Wonder if you need 13 women to form a circle so that it is properly effective.

Eww. Eww. What if since men and women working together on Team Light's side is more successful, could this be the Team Dark version of Male and Female? 13 Black Ajah and 13 Myrdrall (they are all Male, right?)
Alice Arneson
132. Wetlandernw
up2stuff @131 - That's a disturbing thought... Yes, as far as we know, all Myrddraal are male. I wonder what it takes to make them work with the women instead of just going straight for the rape? And given their... appetites, it might be a bit tough to find women willing to be in the same room with them, so what does it take to make the BA willing to be involved?
Lindy Brown
133. lbrown
I enjoy the audio books. I'm doing a relisten of them instead of a reread in anticipation of the last book. I'm listening to TGS right now. This way I can read some new stuff, too. I'm reading A Song of Ice and Fire. If I tried to reread WOT again it would take at least 6 months. Too much time.

The only thing I have against audiobooks is that I have a hard time just listening and sometimes find myself tuning out. For that reason I have to be doing something while listening, like driving, cooking, doing the dishes. That helps. For that reason also I only buy audiobooks of books I've already read so I don't feel like I missing anything because I've already read it.
Sawa
134. HeWhoLurksBeneath
Re: 13x13 diffculty

Hey guys, wetlander's comment at 132 made me go read the section in the dragon reborn and I stumbled across this qoute:

Egwene could almost feel the Halfmen’s knowledge of their own deaths in it; Halfmen knew women embracing the True Source when they saw them. She was sure she could feel a desire for her death, too, if theirs could buy hers, and an even stronger desire to strip the soul out of her flesh and make both playthings for the Shadow, a desire to. . . .
(Chapter 39 The Dragon Reborn)

That section seems to imply that the BA could/would have had willing support from the myrddraal to turn the WT if they had wanted. The wording also seems to imply, at least to me, that 13x13 doesn't require the death of the myrddraal. So while some of the concerns still stand, those don't IMO.

Cheers
michael gaston
135. Ashenladoka
I'm thinking that the Fades would be willing anytime the BA came around. Who knows what they actually have to do to become BA though. Maybe not rape but willingly go to the Fades. Kind of disturbing but I could see that from the Shadows side. Plus I think the Fades would know that the BA sisters could kill them pretty quick if it came to a fight. Maybe they aren't terrified of the sisters but a healthy respect of the power the BA holds would keep them in line.

I'd be very surprised if the 13 channelers were hurt somehow during this process. The Fades wouldn't be a great loss if you make all things equal. One Shadow channeler = 13 fades. Surely the channeler is worth more considering the damage they can do.
Sawa
136. kingofwolves
What if Brandon and Harriet pulling a huge Aes Sedai scheme over on all of us and there's really 3 novels left
T C
137. Freelancer
What if a random red-named commentor throws a lump of smelly refuse against the page in the hopes that it will stick?

Since you clearly know nothing about either Brandon Sanderson or Harriet McDougal, permit me to shed a glimmer of insight. Both are people of high integrity and character. Neither would make a knowingly false statement to the fandom, or permit such to be published by TOR. Brandon has stated on his own website, on his FB and Twitter pages, that the the Wheel of Time has been completed, from an authorial standpoint. He has nothing to gain, and a great deal to lose, by lying about such a thing. And, that's all the energy I'm going to spend on that.

Next.
Sawa
138. CorDarei
@137,

Hey now... no need to say the color of his name as an insult. Some of us don't want to register/log in all the time.
T C
139. Freelancer
Ahh, but you are far from random, which is precisely why there are two qualifying points there, random AND red-named, indicating not a registered nor regular contributor. It was not an insult, but a pointing out of how easy it is to say any useless thing that blows through one's cranial cavity, if one never has to be accountable to such empty thoughts. Why such outrage over my response, and none for the far more insidious (and actual) insult aimed at Brandon and Harriet?
Sawa
140. DougL
Wow, I read the first chapter and listened to the 2nd. It is well written, and engaging, but umm....very slow. I guess it will be a huge book lol.
Sawa
141. Khurrum
That is a genuinely terrible way to read a book. And she doesn't try to make the names sound natural either. I have a simple rule about odd names: Go with a pronunciation that sounds cooler.
Sawa
142. Karsus
As for outriggers... They should find someone who is willing to copy RJ's style. A lot of Brandon's work has fanfic-ish tendencies. Like when Rand frightened Cadsuane, or his comments about being an Aes Sedai and older than Cadsuane... They sound like a fanfic writer losing self control to say something that they'd have wanted to see said due to their frustration at the main character being treated like a loser.
Sawa
143. webby
I know a lot of people do not like audio books. As for myself, I work very long hours doing mindless tasks so I just play audio books on my phone. It makes work go by fast and work not so painfull. As for the readers in the wheel of time series, they are a lot better then a lot of others I have heard.
Sawa
144. Lolaann
I love Michael and Kate! I have listened to WoT books no less than 6 times. I have also listened to A Song of Ice and Fire but found that voice draining. I guess I'm so used to Michael's and Kate's voices that I have a hard time connecting with others. I started to listen to more of Brandon's books because he uses Michael and Kate.

I have been reading everyones comments about linking and 13x13. Great questions! I'm excited to see if more plays out. I am going to his book signing in Provo, UT (I'm lucky enough to live in Salt Lake City, UT) and excited to see all the other crazy fans out there.

I'm on book 9 and trying to finish before January! It will be nice to finally have it end. But I wish there was a way off stories could be written about different heroes, I would love to spend many more years hearing new plots and new adventures. I guess the years it will take them to finish the first books comics will have to do.
Sawa
145. redbronze
I love to listen but I have such a short attention span from multi-tasking I am not sure I really hear what is being said.. Boo on my brain.. The more I practice art the more visual I become reading the words symbols really is my forte' thank you tor though for the listen.. as it really means a lot to all of us that this work was done and the love shown to all of us fans is much appreciated... Love and Light... R
Sawa
146. eloirine sedai
I am dieing to read a memory of light. I just finished the towers of midnight a short while ago and I am already having unsetling dreams abaut the last book. It dose not sate my desire but the audio slice was welcome even though I would rather read than listen. I hope aviendha finds a way to save the aiel.
Sawa
147. Feivel
Thanks a lot for the audioslice, I'm counting the days!

I usually don't listen to audiobooks and in fact never listened to an English one before, since it't not my first language.
I really liked the voice and the pronuncation was very clear and easy to understand, even for me.
I'm curious about the intonation, though:
Many times the melody of the sentence seemed to end too high for my ears, not quite like a question, but hanging somewhat irritating in the air.
Is this a normal way to read prose, some kind of intended mannerism?
Or is it a dialect thing or even completely normal? (I don't think I've heard it before. )

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