Thu
May 3 2012 2:00pm

Rothfuss Reread: The Wise Man’s Fear, Part 28: I Hate Not Understanding a Thing

The Patrick Rothfuss reread on Tor.comWelcome to my insanely detailed reread of Patrick Rothfuss’s Kingkiller Chronicles. This week’s post covers chapters 147 to the end of The Wise Man’s Fear but also contains extensive spoilers for the whole book and the whole of The Name of the Wind — these discussions assume you’ve read all of both books. These posts are full of spoilers, please don’t venture beyond the cut unless you want them.

Abbreviations: NW = The Name of the Wind. WMF = The Wise Man’s Fear. D3 = Day Three, the forthcoming final volume. K = Kvothe or Kote when I can’t figure out what to call him and I’m feeling Kafkaesque. MT: Myr Tariniel. D = Denna, 4C = Four Corners, CTH — that thing I can’t spell!

Useful links: The Sleeping Under the Wagon post, in which there are lots of ted in WMF, none of them really came up explicitly in NW. The first is the Amtheories. The re-read index. The map. The timeline. Imaginary Linguistics.

 

Chapter 147 (149) is Tangled

Kvothe goes back to Ankers and sees Sim and Fela. Sim asks how his day with D went. He sighs, and Fela offers a female perspective on the problem. We don’t get the details of Kvothe’s explanation, but we do get the significant line:

“She confuses me like no other thing in the world.” I picked at a splinter in the tabletop with my finger. “I hate not understanding a thing.”

And that’s the central thing with Kvothe and D, he doesn’t understand her. It’s what he says to Bast and Chronicler when he starts talking about her, it’s what he says now to Sim and Fela, he doesn’t understand her. When your narrator confesses to not understanding something, there really can be something very large going on out of sight. We know some stuff — the knots, her interest in written down magic, her mysterious patron, her incessant moving on, her momentary death as a baby, her continuing asthma — and we have come up with some stuff — that she isn’t Denna, that she’s the moon, that she’s the wind, that she’s been in Fae, that her momentary death left her like Lanre. We have the Bechdel scene, which could have multiple meanings. But I have to say that I don’t understand her at all either. She acts like an archetype wandering through a story in which the other characters have psychological realism. There’s something really odd about D, and I also hate not understanding a thing. I wait impatiently for D3 and revelations.

(When D3 actually arrives, I don’t expect to read it at this pace, but I will definitely do something detailed here where we can all go “Look at that!” and “GBrell was right!” and so on.)

Anyway, Fela now talks directly about the male gaze, and how being looked at appreciatively makes her feel beautiful and being looked at sleazily makes her feel greasy. Maybe this is different it you are beautiful? But I have to say it doesn’t bear much relationship to my experience. Fela in any case goes on to say he gives his whole attention and now there’s something fae about it, but it’s not a threat to Sim. Kvothe offers fascination but not devotion. Sim points out that Kvothe would turn the whole world over for D, and that’s devotion if you like. Kvothe says he doesn’t love D because he doesn’t understand her, and Sim laughs.

Then Kvothe finds Elodin and eats grapes with him. He asks about name changing — we’ve discussed this passage several times in different contexts. Elodin instantly panics.

“What?” He sat up suddenly, his eyes wild and panicked. “What have you done?”

His reaction startled me and I held up my hands defensively. “Nothing!” I insisted. “It’s not me. It’s a girl I know.”

Elodin’s face grew ashen. “Fela?” he said. “Oh no. No. She wouldn’t do something like that. She’s too smart for that.” It sounded as if he were desperately trying to convince himself.

I am absolutely convinced that the existence of this passage means that Kvothe has changed his name in the frame. I know we have alternate explanations, broken alar, broken vow/hands and so on, but I think this is here as a clear signal that changing your name is a) possible and b) disastrous. (Kote.) I also think it’s funny that Elodin thinks Fela is too smart to do it but knows perfectly well that Kvothe isn’t.

Elodin then goes on to discuss use names, and that D’s name thing could indicate that she doesn’t know who she is. But he also says he’s assuming she’s not a fugitive, which isn’t something I’m assuming — we know she leaves inn bills unpaid, and that’s got to be a crime when stealing bread is.

He tells Elodin about calling the wind in Tarbean, and Elodin is impressed that he has done it three times voluntarily and had control. He asks how long before he can make a ring of air, and Kvothe jokes that who can tell if he already has.

 

Chapter 148 (150) is Folly

Indeed.

We’re winding up all the ends neatly. Spring term continues, D goes to Anilin  without performing the Lanre song in Imre, but she went to Ankers to tell him she was going, which is utterly unprecedented. He sees it as a good sign. I don’t — honestly, there’s clearly something weirdly magical about the way they meet and can’t find each other and always do, and I think doing it that way means they are in tune and actually connecting formally is a bad sign.

The Chancellor fell ill and didn’t recover despite the best the Medica could do, and resigns. We’ve speculated that this might be a poisoning to prevent Kvothe continuing to learn Yllish. Hemme is appointed Chancellor, and Kvothe is more careful of the University’s laws. At Admissions, Kvothe gets a tuition of fifty talents, because the Chancellor has more control than he thought, but of course he has the Maer’s paper and his deal with the Bursar. He has a great night out in Imre with all his friends, drinking to Hemme’s folly.

And that’s really a great place to stop the story.

 

Chapter 149 (151) is Locks

It doesn’t say “Interlude: Locks” in my ARC or in the e-book, so we know we’re into closing the frame as soon as K talks about this being a good place to stop before things get dark again.

There’s a bad hand reference:

He idly rubbed his hands together, right hand massaging the left absent-mindedly.

It’s not his hands that got stomped by the soldiers, and anyway, Bast has fixed him.

Chronicler puts the pages in his satchel with the holly crown. K takes the dishes into the kitchen. Bast sits still, barely breathing. Ksuggests he might want to go back to Shep’s wake, and he says he’d rather go to bed. K looks concerned and says Bast just had a rough day and he’ll be fine tomorrow — this doesn’t fit the “jailor Bast” theory. (Is D3 here yet?)

K locks the door and leaves the key in the lock in case Chronicler is up first. He says he doesn’t tend to sleep much but tonight he might make an exception. Chronicler goes to bed. K sweeps the floor and cleans up then goes to bed.

Bast goes into his room. Nothing but “ash and cinder” remains of his morning’s fire. (This was one of the lines that made me feel Cinder was Master Ash.) He sits wrapped in a blanket in front of the cold fire until Chronicler comes tapping at his window. When he hears the sound he snatches up “something” which glints of metal. (Is it possible to have unreliable third person narration? Oh yes.) It’s a pair of long knives, we learn after he lets Chronicler in and lights a lamp. They are compared to grass and a thorn — very Fae knives, clearly. I wonder what they’re made of?

Chronicler looks at the room, which is richly furnished and full of tat — pictures, trunkets and oddments, including rings of horn, leather, and woven grass. Oh we are definitely in rural Vintas, and horn means enmity if I remember, and do we know about grass or leather? There’s also holly and a pair of leaf-bladed hatchets.

Chronicler asks about the CTH. Bast says it’s not healthy to talk about it. Chronicler says he doesn’t understand, and Bast says he’s not very smart. Bast keeps staring and the cold fireplace, is that significant? We’ve seen K chopping wood, he’d only have to go down and get some if he wanted a fire. Bast says the CTH knows everything. Chronicler says that makes it irritating, and Bast incoherently swears in Fae:

“Dyen vehat. Enfeun vehat tyloren tes!”

I think this means “You are an ignorant aardvark! An ignorant aardvark flaunting your blinkers!” 

My reasoning is as follows. “Tes” is clearly a form of “you” as in “te” as in “te rhintae” etc, and I think it could well be “your” specifically. I think “dyen” and “tyloren are verb because they have Fae verb form, like ”scthaiven“ and ”tauren“ and ”amauen“.  I’m guessing they mean ”you are“ and ”you flaunt“. ”Enfeun“ reminds me of ”embighten“ (Felurian, of what the moon will do to the shaed” and “enshaedn” (Elodin, meaning “possessing a shaed”) so I think “en+word” means to add “word” to the person — thus here I’m guessing “blind yourself” or “blinkered”. And “vehat” just clearly means “ignorant aardvark”, or something very like that.

(I can’t believe how long I spent on that.)

Chronicler deals well with being sworn at in Fae, though he shows no sign he understands it. He says Bast is angry and he’s angry at Chronicler just because he’s there. He says he’s trying to help. Then Chronicler says K believed Bast about the CTH, and Bast says:

“He knows the hidden turnings of the world,” Bast said. “And what he doesn’t understand he is quick to grasp.” Bast’s fingers flicked idly at the edges of the blanker. “And he trusts me.”

So Kvothe trusts Bast, or Bast thinks so. Interesting.

They go on to discuss the CTH in detail. Then Bast says:

Be happy in your silly little ignorance. I’m doing you a favor by not telling you the truth.

Isn’t that interesting? I wonder if he’s doing that with K, too, with his apple elderberry plan? Bast says he’d rather fight all the Chandrian than talk to the CTH. Chronicler still wants this to be superstition. Chronicler slaps him, and tells him that the CTH set everything in motion, whether Bast attacks or not, and in that choice is free will, is the possibility for change and not inflexible destiny.

Bast says:

Only an idiot sits in a burning house and thinks that everything is fine because fruit is sweet.

Chronicler says the inn isn’t burning, Bast says the world is. Chronicler says Felurian wouldn’t have let him go if it was to a bad end, Bast says the Fae aren’t known for their good decisions. Then he says that if everything is going to end in tears he might as well do what he wants, and leaves with a bottle of wine.

I’m not sure what to make of all this, from the point of view of Chronicler maybe being an Amyr. It’s not “for the greater good”, is it? It’s more the Tinker thing of mending the broken house, I think, and I wonder if this may be the “mender heresy”? Fruit is sweet, all is not yet lost, do what you can starting from here and don’t despair. I think the Tinkers are the opposite of the CTH, for all that they play the same role in the Iax story and always know what people will need.

K goes to bed, and unlike Bast he lays a new fire, using a sulphur match. He gets another blanket. Then he kneels in front of the Thrice Locked Chest and tries to open it, first with nothing and then with keys. but it won’t open, even when he says “Open, damn you. Edro.” He looks “older than his years” (whatever they are). His face holds:

the expression of a man who has finally received bad news he’s already known was on the way.

As if he didn’t know for sure he wouldn’t be able to open it until he tried? And he hasn’t been trying, the keys were dusty. And why is he trying now? And why can’t he open it?

I know, D3 and until then a nice helping of patience.

 

Chapter 147 (152) is Elderberry

And this is where we find out that Bast set up the soldiers. Bast chants his “elderberry” song as he did at the beginning of the book, but ends pointing a burning brand at one of the soldiers. He says he didn’t get what he wanted — what he wanted is presumably for K to have dealt with them and been shocked into becoming more Kvothe. We don’t know what Bast does to the soldiers, only that his expression was “nothing like a smile”.

 

Epilogue: A Silence of Three Parts.

This is the fourth time we have seen what is substantially this chapter. We have the tripartite silence, which I still think is something Kvothe has deliberately created.

I think the first tripartite silence reflects what K has done. The second silence is other people not being able to reach him. And the third is the scary solid silence that doesn’t just reflect it but which is it. It’s a magical silence. It’s in the glass and the chest and K himself. And it holds the other two silences, and it is just exactly like splitting his alar, isn’t it, the way we have seen him do?

The thing he has done here, the things that are lacking, are rain and lovers, and of course no music. There have been a lot of storms and lovers in this volume, and music of course. The second silence is the sound of revelry coming from Shep’s wake, a thin thread broken by the wind — the outside world not being able to reach in. And then the third silence in “the hands of the man”. K isn’t given a name here. He’s described as the red haired man, and he goes downstairs and takes one perfect step. This may mean he’s started to practice the ketan again, and it may be a sign of hope despite everything. I would like it to be.

Then we’re back to the silence that belongs to him, and the cut flower sound.

Such beautiful writing. Such a long time to wait for more.

 

This re-read has been a lot of work but also a great deal of fun, and it’s all of you who have been here week after week speculating and going along with the craziness that have made it fun. I started it in the first place because of the high level of speculation on the first spoiler thread I put up and then the Sleeping Under the Wagon thread. I hope you’ve all enjoyed this as much as I have.

Don’t miss the interview with Pat next week.


Jo Walton is a science fiction and fantasy writer. She’s published two poetry collections and nine novels, most recently the Hugo and Nebula nominated Among Others. She reads a lot, and blogs about it here regularly. She comes from Wales but lives in Montreal where the food and books are more varied.

87 comments
Rob Munnelly
1. RobMRobM
Thanks so much, Jo. This has been a treat. (A mind bending treat, but one nonetheless.) Perhaps we should elevate you to Chancellor.

Rob
Ashley Fox
2. A Fox
First off a heartfelt Thank You Jo, for doing this reread! Its been great fun, and somehing to look forward too.

Rings; Leather=service, Grass=lovers. K actually strats to weave a grass ring when D plays her song, until it all goes wrong.
Gary Singer
3. AhoyMatey
Thank you, Jo, the reread has been awesome.
George Brell
4. gbrell
@bluejo:

I want to say thanks for the incredible amount of work you've put in. Honestly, I'm wracking my brain trying to think of more topics to do "Theory Summaries" on just so it'll keep going. Looking forward immensely to the interview.

@2.A Fox:

Nice catch with Kvothe weaving the grass ring. For those who don't have WMF readily available:

"I sat where I was, sprawling comfortably on the long, cool grass. I tugged a few strands of it out of the ground and idly began to twist them together into a braid.
...
I looked down dumbly at my hands. They still held the half-formed circle of green grass I’d been weaving when the song began. It was a broad, flat plait already beginning to curve into the shape of a ring.
...
I looked down at my hands and idly fingered the flat braid of green grass I’d woven. It was smooth and cool between my fingers. I couldn’t remember how I’d planned to join the ends together to form a ring."
Natenanimous
5. Natenanimous
I haven't commented before now, but I wanted to say thank you for doing this re-read, and thanks to all the people making such insightful and interesting comments. It's all been excellent, and a fantastic way to see deeper into the book and pass the time until the third one. Bravo!
Ryan Reich
6. ryanreich
Thanks, Jo! Way back at the beginning I exclaimed that this reread was coming at just the right time and I was excited; I was right. It has been great.
Felipe Martins
7. felipem
Great work Jo, I've had so much fun on this reread! Is D3 out yet?
Katy Maziarz
8. ArtfulMagpie
Argh! What am I going to do every Thursday now, until D3 comes out?! This has been so much fun. Thanks, Jo!!
Beth Meacham
9. bam
Thanks so much, Jo! What a wonderful ride this has been.

Thought: enshaedn doesn't mean possessing a shaed. It means being possessed by a shaed. Which, by the way, seems to be nowhere in sight. Is it in the chest along with his lute and Saicere?

I agree that K has changed his name in the way that caused Elodin to freak out. "Remembering who he is" is a double edged blade whenever it is mentioned.

I wondered at the end whether K's perfect step hinted that if he practiced the ketan again, he would find the lethani again. And in spinning leaf he could find his own name again. Maybe Bast has succeeded after all.
Steven Halter
10. stevenhalter
Thanks for all the posts, Jo. The reread has been a blast. I've had a great time.
Simon Hemmings
11. bartokian147
Thanks for the re-read. If anything it's made me reevaluate my bad habit of getting overexcited and racing through books too eagerly. The amount of stuff I missed on my first read is shameful! One thing - and I'm sure I'm not the first to have said it - How is Rothfuss going to tie everything up in one more book? Is it going to be utterly massive or in two volumes? Who knows? It seems that there is so much. I have total faith in him though...
Tyler Hilsabeck
12. tylerhilsabeck
Thank you for the re-read. I, like everyone else, cannot wait for D3.
Katy Maziarz
13. ArtfulMagpie
"Anyway, Fela now talks directly about the male gaze, and how being
looked at appreciatively makes her feel beautiful and being looked at
sleazily makes her feel greasy. Maybe this is different it you are
beautiful? But I have to say it doesn’t bear much relationship to my
experience."

Speaking as a reasonably attractive woman (and humble, too!) I can understand what Fela means. There is a big difference between being appreciated and being objectified, and you can often tell the difference just in the way someone looks at you. So I am with her on that one.
Gary Singer
14. AhoyMatey
I was wondering, seeing Bast has rings, if the giving of rings was something started by the Fae.

I had to laugh at Bast's sentence! Well done on the translation!
Natenanimous
15. jmd
Thanks so much for the re-read! I too will miss these posts and all my fellow University students. I like the aardvark reference, though I much prefer the platypus.
thistle pong
16. thistlepong
Thanks, Jo; this has been wonderful.

In addition to @2 and @4, A Fox has a stunning memory:
“Those rings were made of things ordinary folk might find easily at hand. A young lover might give a ring of new green grass to someone he was courting. A ring of leather promises service. And so on.”
(WMF c65, p444)
And the bit gbrell quotes is exactly halfway through. I'm thinking it's also the pivot on which the story turns.

@11
I don't think he'll have any problem finishing the story in one book. I think he's even said it would be shorter than WMF. So many of our questions could be answered (or further confused) with small details in random stories. He's taken us through seven or eight years (or several thousand) so gently that I imagine the next few will feel just right.
Steven Halter
17. stevenhalter
@Jo:
“Dyen vehat. Enfeun vehat tyloren tes!”
I think this means “You are an ignorant aardvark! An ignorant aardvark flaunting your blinkers!”
I think you are very close.
Natenanimous
18. awaitingD3
I haven't commented before now but have been following this since i found TNOTW reread thread. Thanks for so much work you put into this, jo of course but also everyone else.
Also I feel the need to say that reading the comments on a thread like this restores my faith that people can have an earnst discussion about even contriversial something without it quickly becoming a youtube comments section.
Adam Shaeffer
19. ashaef
Ahhhhhh! I can't believe we've come to the end! I may just have to start reading these again immediately just so the wait for D3 won't seem so long . . .
Steven Halter
20. stevenhalter
Here are some specific predictions we can check when D3 comes out. Some are more easy/certain than others.

Kvothe will do something to cause the doors of stone to open. This will not be a good thing.
The Lackless box will be opened and it will contain Selitos' stone.
Kvothe will return to Fae and he will meet Bast.
Someone will open Kvothe's chest.
Bredon is Denna's patron. Kvothe will not do well with this info.
Kote will not make it out of D3.
One or all of Auri, Sim or Denna will be killed. Which one(s) depend on too many specifics.
We will get a much better idea of what Vorfelen Rhinata Morie actually means and it will be much further along the lines of or something like that.
Kvothe will find out that Meluan is his aunt.
The Amyr will emerge from the shadows.
The Chandrian will not be the villains.
Rob Munnelly
21. RobMRobM
- Re the Elodin concern about renaming - note that K also is cautioned strongly by the Aden namer and Vashet not to rename the sword. More foreshadowing?
- Ok, does K have a ring of wind with Elodin or is he just joking? Should we take a poll?
- I'm getting the sense that D is his entrance exam into Namers University. Once he understands her, he can understand anything.
- Why is the chapter named Folly? Is it D or the tuition? With tuition up to 50, K is dead meat if the Maer pulls the financial plug.
lake sidey
22. lakesidey
Thank you so much, bluejo! You are unexpected cake on a rainy afternoon.

Real life has kept me from participating in the re-read anywhere near as much as I would have loved to, but I have greedily devoured every post (and when time permitted, every comment from all the awesome folks here) and it has been worth every moment.

~lakesidey
Natenanimous
23. TheFrog
@21 "- Why is the chapter named Folly? Is it D or the tuition? With tuition up to 50, K is dead meat if the Maer pulls the financial plug."

Do we know if Kvothe ever finished at the University? For that matter is there even an official graduation?
Natenanimous
24. TheFrog
And thanks too Jo. I have truly enjoyed the reread, as little as I contributed. And it has been a pleasure just participating the little that I have with all the great minds here!
Natenanimous
25. KiztheWiz
Aw, I don't want this to end. . .

Jo, I'm actually going to have to be *productive* on Thursdays now . . . any catastrophes in D3 will have nothing on that level of misery.

Bam @9 made me think of something--

I've been fairly certain that K no longer has Caesura in the frame because he's done something bloody stupid that broke or corrupted it, but it may be more mundane. If the world believes that Kvothe is dead, then the second the rumors hit the edge of the map someone in the Adem post office started watching the mail for the sword to be returned.

I believe I'll spend the time until D3 dreaming up ways that poor Sim can make it out of D3 alive.

What? I said it'd be dreaming.
Natenanimous
26. Spirit theif
Thanks so much to Jo and everyone else for this wonderful reread.

Couple things about these chapters-
Kvothe's talk with fela and Simmon reminded me of NotW immediately. Fela feels gross when men give her gross looks- sort of a "she isn't seen as beautiful, she is beautiful, seen" kind of magic.

Kvothes chest- he did try to open it- he made Bast do the work, trying to plunder the chest. I think k wants to be kvothe, but knows that bad things will happen if he is.

Rings- Air is the ring unseenfrom the poem. (do you get a ring for mastering a persons name? Ring of blood maybe?)

Random D3 speculation: Kvothe will open the 4plate door, which contains Iax. The box will hav either Haliax's or the Moon's name. Denna will die, possibly in the opening of the doors (just because ks life isn't bad enough) k will lose his hands because some promise he broke to her. Auri might turn out to be a Ciridae, guarding the door. Somehow I don't think shes surviving this.
In Newarre, bast opens the chest. I think it has K's name in it. The story is finished and k knows who he is. Something terrible happens, maybe a chandrian/Amyr appearance. (Folly is used in a battle I hope.) And because of CTH, this is a tragedy. Maybe K dies. The end.

Sorry for the horrible grammar and spelling. I really don't want this to end.
This is depressing. I'll be glad when PR proves mytheories wrong.
George Brell
27. gbrell
@21.RobMRobM:

I'd vote for no if only because he describes his "naked left hand."
thistle pong
28. thistlepong
TheFrog@23
Do we know if Kvothe ever finished at the University? For that matter is there even an official graduation?
There is. You get/make your guilder, earn the title Arcanist, and, um, do whatever. You can hang out at Uni as a giller/grad student, angle for a court appointment like Caudicus, or putter around like Abenthy. You could amost certainly go kill a king or something, too. There's no reference to Kvothe having graduated.
Alf Bishai
29. greyhood
I add my thanks, Jo. (These came out every Thursday? I missed that too?)

You mentioned the tinker in the broken house and I immediately thought of Auri in the Underthing. The broken house is at the end of the broken road (university). And it is a broken house. I think we speculated that it was Iax's first attempt at building something huge, and it makes sense that it's near the 4-plate door.
Re: Auri as tinker - she does keep giving K. things, presumable because he will need them in D3. And she does have so many little trinkets around - tea cups and things like that. Perhaps she is Ordal the matron angel of Tinkers, or the beginning of the order. Then an enemy - Haliax? - learned her name and she was forced to change it and go into hiding.
Sam Mickel
30. Samadai
Thanks For doing the re-read. It has been great.

I wonder if Denna is Lanre's wife (Lyra? ) Bearing through the world searching for something to bring Lanre back from where he has gone. Maybe this is why She believes the song she wrote making Lanre a good guy.

Edit for.
I don't believe Denna would know she was her, just that is why she is always leaving, looking for something.
Ryan Reich
31. ryanreich
I don't think Kvothe is the kind of guy to graduate; Kvothe is Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerberg; he'll stay in university to open doors and leave to pursue something practical that he finds actually exciting/profitable. Hell, do you even want your famous hero to have academic credentials? The whole point of Kvothe's character is that he does great and terrible things before he is old and wise enough to know better.

Fela's line about the male gaze is something that sounds, to me, like it could easily be true of a large proportion of real women whether or not it is "true" or whether or not it came from true knowledge on the part of Rothfuss. It's a kind of personal quirk, and if there is one thing that is true about people, it's that any conceivable preference is realized somewhere. This one isn't even that odd. Nonetheless, it sounds to me like something that a sexually interested man would like to believe is true of attractive women. I will generously interpret that man to be Kvothe rather than Rothfuss, since I think it's an error to read attitudes in his writing into his own personality (he has said in other connections that he has quite different tastes from Kvothe, however believable they seem).
John Graham
32. JohnPoint
I'll add my huge "thank you" to Jo for doing this. I came to the re-read fairly late, but have really enjoyed it for the last several months.

I think that the chapter title of Folly is pretty important. In the closing paragraph of the chapter, we see Kvothe et al. toasting to Hemme's Folly. I think this is closely related to the sword labeled Folly.

So, what exactly is Hemme's Folly: Hemme gives Kvothe a huge tuition (50 Talents), which he obviously believes is a punishment to Kvothe. In reality, it provides Kvothe with 20 Talents in his purse, so it's a huge benefit. As such, the Folly is doing one thing with the belief that it's a penalty/punishment/ etc. for someone, only to have it turn out to be a major award/reward for them.

So, I think we can apply this to the sword named Folly. K obviously chose the name for the sword very carefully, and thus Folly means something to him. I think it's related to what he did with the sword or how he obtained it.

If it's Caesura, he renamed it Folly because he obtained it from the Adem for what he thought were positive reasons (learn to fight, kill Chandrian, etc.) and the effect was actually terrible (killed king, set the world on fire, etc.)

If it's a different sword (e.g, Cinder's sword), he named it Folly because he thought his actions in obtaining it (for example, killing Cinder) would be good actions, but were actually terrible. He mistook the outcome, and caused very differnet effects that he expected.

So, Hemme's Folly tells us a lot about the sword and why it's labeled Folly -- his receipt of it or actions to get it were very similar to Hemme's high tuition for Kvothe...

Edit to add: We also have an idea of what Bast does to the mercenaries. In the Silence chapter, there's reference to something off in the distance that almost sounded like the shrieking of an owl but wasn't.
Outside the Waystone, the noise of distant revelry blew faintly through the trees A strain of fiddle. Voices. Stomping boots and clapping hands. But the sound was slender as a thread, and a shift in the wind broke it , leaving only rustling leaves and something almost like the far-off shrieking of an owl. That faded too, leaving nothing but the second silence, waiting like an endless indrawn breath.
I pretty darn sure that this is a reference to Bast torturing and killing the mercenaries... perhaps splashing around in their blood like a kid (or whatever it was that he threatened to do to Chronicler)
Natenanimous
33. maniacalengineer
I can hardly believenit is over. Every week I meant to post something and never got around to it. I appreciate all of the people on the board and especially Jo for pointing out so many things I have missed in reading these books.

I had a few last thoughts and I am sorry if they have been brought up before:

1) I have always felt that K changed his NAME or had Elodin do it for him and that the consequence of such an action was to wither and die like a cut flower.

In NotW Chapter 3:
In fact, Kote himself seemed rather sickly. Not exactly unhealthy, but hollow. Wan. Like a plat that's been moved into the wrong sort of soil and, lacking something vital, has begun to wilt.

2) What is going on with the scar on K's back?

Also in NotW Chapter 3:
As he was undressing for bed, the fire flared. The red light traced faint lines across his body, across his back and arms. All the scars were smooth and silver, streaking him like lightning, like lines of gentle remembering. The flare of flame revealed them all briefly, old wounds and new. All the scars were smooth and silver except one.

And why does the narrator say that all of the scars were smooth and silver, and then immediately say that all of the scars were smooth and silver except one?

3) Do we see anyone besides Kvothe and The Fae have changing eye color? It makes me wonder if perhaps Reshi means "brother".

Just thinking out loud I guess. I'm glad to have been a part of something so fun and thought provoking. Thanks Jo. And thanks to everyone else.
Natenanimous
34. mochabean
Many many thanks for this wonderful reread, and to all the commentators, frequent and rare, who made this something to look forward to every Thursday!
Julia Mason
35. DrFood
I add my thanks, Jo! There are other places to discuss the Rothfussian domain, but none as fine as this. I couldn't always participate, but I always read every comment. (So sad that another cool webthing, SailorTwain, is also coming to an end very soon. Sigh.)

Good thing it's spring!

I have to say I like Denna and I like the idea that she may be the "real hero" in this tale. What Fela said made sense to me as well. Long ago I was travelling alone in Italy, which was supposed to be a very bad idea for a young woman. I did pretty well by impersonating a European, avoiding shorts and baseball caps, but I did encounter a lot more of the male gaze than I had back in the Midwest! There was a way the old men would call out "bella! bella!" that was truly complimentary and non-greasy.

I also agree that Kvothe has changed his name, and this has been disastrous. I recently read The Story of Edgar Sawtelle, and somehow this has helped me get more comfortable with the idea of a tragedy. A story can be really, really good and yet not end "well."
Natenanimous
36. Zeno
Indeed, thank you! This was great. I can't wait for D3 so that it can continue.
Chris King
37. KingFielder
Jo, I just wanted to give you my heartfelt thanks for ong his reread. I knew there were all kinds of things happening below the surface in these books, but I didn't pick up on hardly any of them until finding you and your merry band of commenters.

Let's not forget, a king will be killed (or a previously killed king will be revealed) in D3. Or, my latest theory, the name of the series is just as useless as the map and Pat's having a laugh at us by naming it The Kingkiller Chronicle.
Natenanimous
38. Rossamund
Wow, there are such terrific speculations in this ultimate thread!

Here's my final theory, with apologies if this was already suggested in an older thread:

In TNotW Ch. 18, Kvothe dreams he's in the middle of a double circle of stones, and three of the stones make an arch.

I wonder if that arch is related to "the doors of stone?"

And whether the two rings of stones doesn't somehow represent the Archives at the University?

We've speculated on the four-plate door, but the door into the Archives itself is also stone - so it's kind of like there are two "levels" of stone doors.

Since I only looped in 2 months ago, I'm going to fill my Thursdays for
the time being with going back through all the earlier threads, in
sequence. 'Still won't get me to D3, but it's something.

Jo, thank you (and Tor) so much for creating this space for the fan community to form and thrive!
Christopher Johnstone
39. CPJ
This whole reread has been amazing. Really amazing. I haven't always had the time I needed to comment in depth, but I've read everything (or as much as I could, post and comments alike) and have enjoyed it all hugely.

Thanks Jo, but also, thanks to all the commenters who've helped make this a really interesting exploration and conversation of a complex book!

C.
Claire de Trafford
40. Booksnhorses
Thanks Jo and everyone who have made amazing and insightful comments. I guess we'll have to wait and see who was right and who was wrong. At least we have a WoT cover and publication date to console us with while we wait.
James Hogan
41. Sonofthunder
Jo - going to join the chorus here and say thank you for this amazing re-read these past months!! (Also, thanks to all you incredibly insightful commenters that picked out far more details than I ever managed to do!) I've not usually had time to comment, but have always just loved reading your analysis. And I'm going to miss this. I'm almost to the end of my third reading of WMF and the sadness that comes with the end of a lovely read is upon me. The same sadness that hits me with the end of this reread!

As to these chapters...I would also assert it's almost a certainty that Kvothe changed his name. As for Bast, I still wonder what role he really plays, whose side he's really on. I think he's "with" K, but also has his own agenda, working for who, I can't imagine.

For Denna - I don't understand her either, but then, I feel that she also never understood Kvothe. It's a lovely dance of mutual confusion and agony. I also am of the opinion that Denna's life mirror's Kvothe's...a tragic past, death of those she loved, flight..and then trying to make her way in the world and becoming tangled in schemes upon schemes. I think in D3, we'll see K and Denna pitted against each other. I hope not. I suppose Denna's past could be somthing more magical and otherwordly, but I'm leaning against that idea for now.

And now this post is far too long, but again - thanks Jo!! It's been a treasure of delight, this reread!
Ashley Fox
42. A Fox
We've touched upon ideas of Chronicler's agenda, and I'd like to look again at him, as I feel that in these last sections of frame we start to see a little deeper into him, a hint that there is more to him, a knowingness if you will. These are subtle things, but add up.

The Event. We dont know what it is, but the charas do. K beleives the world's troubles lay solely at his feet. It is likely that a lot of it is as a consequence to an action of his. And yet through out his story we have become increasingly aware of how he has stumbled into plots new and old and thick. His actions are spurred by these plots.

Scarpi is involved in these plots, somehow. It is also likely that K encounters him again in D3 re his reaction when Chronicler mentions him. He also essentially rescued him from himself and Tarbean, set him onto his path. Then, after the Event, he sends Chronicler to him, demonstrating that he see's through K's 'death' and knows where he is. In the frame Scarpi is also just a days ride away, yet he does not come to K himself. Why? What does he want from k?

Chronicler; he travels the known world writing histories of notorius folk. An excellent way to be privy to secrets and the events that impact the world, no? Also in a practicle sense quite difficult. To get someone to open up completely you would have to be the right sort of ear, the right sort of listener. One person may enjoy a drink and a sense of bragging, requiring an awed, gasping audiance. Another may need a sense of friendship and sharing of hushed secrets. Chronicler is renowned in his role, he gets his stories so it stands to reason that he knows how to play these roles.

This is why Scarpi sent him. Scarpi and K have to much history, to many decided opinions and feelings, K would not open up to him, perhaps even retreat further into Kote. He does not know Chronicler, only his reputation. So what face does he present? The one that K expects, a scholerly papery man, a bit nervous, a bit gullible, with inherent common bias and (dis)beliefs. This face works well with Basts view as well, and when he alone with Bast he becomes even more fearful. And yet in the above scene he slaps him. Twice. Considering his apparent fear this is strikingly odd, and underlines that there is more than what he is presenting to K and Bast. We also see him provoke several situations between them, or with the townsfolk etc and then just sit back and watch events unfold.

"Im trying to help you" he tells Bast, implying that he shares Basts desire to awaken Kvothe. I think the motivation is two fold. I think they want the his story becuase they need to know the details of certain things, and that Kvothes role in the consequences are not finished. And perhaps they really do wish for K to be whole again, that he was used harshly by The Event.

There is a war going on; Penitant King vs Rebels. We have seen penitant priests, implying that the PK as strong associations with the Tehlin Church. Scarpi is clearly an antagonist of the Tehlins, his truth suppressed by them. So he is likely to be on the rebels side (if not his own). How the PK came to power seems to be hinged upon the Event, upon K. He wants K dead, even though he apparently is, yet does not know where to find him. K is a strong playing peice that has retired from the board, although the game of Tak is still raging. Is Scarpi trying to put him back into action? For what purpose?

Above Chronicler clearly manipulates Bast out of despair (also did anyone else see connotations of Iax's convo with the Knower? Well, thats not exactly what I said...before they both rush of and do something drastic.). He obviously see's that Bast is an important part of reawakening K, and perhaps important in his own right regarding Faen. K says how he was manipulated and betrayed. If Chronicler is manipulating K than he is playing a very dangerous game...unless that will be the final spark to set the tinder ablaze? We have speculated that it is this betrayel that caused K to , er, do the Event. Will this revelation be the one to force Kote to become Kvothe? If Denna is not dead I can imagine her also being used as a goad..perhaps she is sitting not a day away with Scarpi...

Does their plan coincide with K's own? and yes I do believe he has a plan, and that it involves his death. Repentance, undoing the bad things he has supposedly done (like getting his friends killed? :( )
Felipe Martins
43. felipem
About Folly, I'm with Cinder's sword theory, K clearly tells Chronicler Folly is not Ceasura, and before hanging it ont he wall he asks Bast to hide it. I somewhat doubt he'd hide Ceasura.
One other point: I think the name Folly is a reference to Abenthy's dedicatory on his book. "Remember your father's song. Beware of Folly"
Fits perfectly!
Steven Halter
44. stevenhalter
This occurred to me this morning:

Sing oh Rothfuss, of the anger of Kvothe, son of Arliden,
dreadful anger that brought uncounted woes upon the Four Corners
and sent many valiant souls to Hell,
making them spoils for dogs and birds,
while the wish of the Amyr was fulfilled
from the time when, they quarreled and separated,
lovely Denna, braider of men, and noble Kvothe.

Mênin is the first word of the Illiad and can be translated as anger or wrath. It, however, conotates much more than those English words. It may be a closer fit to what the Adem concept is than 'anger'.
Andrew Mason
45. AnotherAndrew
Graduation: yes, becoming an arcanist is akin to graduation, but not everyone at the University is trying to become an arcanist, and even those who are (including Kvothe) do other things not directly related to that aim. I think it quite likely that apart from the arcanum there is no graduation as such - you just learn as many things as you find useful. There have been universities in the real world that worked much like this - I believe in Scotland in the 18th century, although you could graduate, lots of people didn't bother to, but just did whatever courses they felt they needed (except in medicine, where there was a particular qualification to be gained).

Denna: one theory Jo didn't mention is that she's a Lackless. I think this was first proposed in the form that she, not Laurian, is Meluan's missing sister; this I find very hard to believe, but I wouldn't rule out her being a Lackless in some other way.

One trivial thing: in this section there's a mention of Fela's Modegan accent, and that made me reflect on how international the Kvothe gang is. Kvothe himself is Edema Rhu and, presumably, Vintish; Willem is Cealdish; Simmon is Aturan (and Adem?); Fela is Modegan. Is anyone actually a Commonwealth citizen? Mola, perhaps. What is Devi's ethnic origin? And about Auri, of course, there is no saying.
the bitshifter
46. bitshifter
I'll add my voice to the chorous of thanks for this reread. I have greatly enjoyed it even though I have just been a lurker till now.

Something I thought of during reading this post, has it been considered that the thrice locked chest is keyed to someone else? Perhaps one of the locks is that person who was trusted with/is the key is now either gone or there is animosity towards kvothe?
Steven Halter
47. stevenhalter
I think that Kvothe's statement that "I Hate Not Understanding a Thing" is quite ironic. In the reality of the story at that point in time I think that Kvothe understands almost nothing. He doesn't understand Denna, the Chandrian, the Amyr, the Masters, ...
His understanding is so flawed that he only understands that he doesn't understand Denna. Even there, his non-understanding is flawed as he demonstrates when he asks Sim, "How can I love something I don’t understand?" Sim and Fela both laugh at him in a head slap moment and he still doesn't understand.
Jeremy Raiz
48. Jezdynamite
Thank you Jo. I only joined your reread in the early stages of WMF, and this being my first ever reread, I've thoroughly enjoyed it.

I hope you feel immense pride and satisfaction in the community that you've created. All of your hard, hard, hard work has been worth it and greatly appreciated. I can only imagine the copious amounts of notes you've taken, revised, reviewed, re-reading, re-evaluating that you've done.

A well earned rest is definitely something I'd be looking forward to if I was you!

Thanks for the excited anicipation I've been feeling for the last few months each Friday morning (in Australia). I'm ony sorry we're at the end.

And thank you to everyone; for all your theories, concepts, comments and thoughts. It's been brilliant. Looking forward to any of Pat's answers nex week.
- -
49. The_Bloody_Nine
As everyone else has already mentioned, Jo, many thanks for putting in all the time and effort to keep this going for so long. It's been absolutely brilliant. And thanks to everyone else who joined in with their thoughts and theories. The combined effort has been immensely interesting, and I will miss it dearly. It's a shame my thesis has kept me from being more actively involved for so much of it; looks like I won't ever be making Re'lar. Which is grand, really - keeps tuition fees down.

I had one final thought, catching up with the last five or so threads in the past two days, which I can't remember seeing mentioned. Say Kvothe did happen to open the Doors of Stone - be they the Lackless Door, the Four-Plate Door, or something else entirely; it really makes no matter - and behind them was still trapped Iax. Given what we've been told, upon his release he would arguably be the most powerful entity living in the Four Corners, and therefore perfectly capable of seizing control if he so chose. Would it not, then, be possible for him, overcome with regret at plunging the world into the chaos of the Creation War, to be the Penitent King…?

The way I see it, there are only a few characters (that we know at this point) who have sufficient reason to be "penitent" (again, at this point). (I am assuming this "king" will be male, for obvious reasons.)

1) Kvothe, for whichever horrible thing has led him to his current state in the Frame. (Killing Denna or Auri? Opening one of the mystery doors and unleashing the scrael, skinchangers, and general death and destruction?) Obviously, his constant presence in Newarre, among other things, makes it nigh impossible for him to be king as well.

2) Haliax/Lanre, for convincing the other town leaders to forsake their duty and destroy their own cities during the Creation War. Possibly for Lyra's death as well. He can't pass through the gate of madness, so some five thousand years worth of sane contemplation could potentially lead him to regret those actions. His "enshaedn" face makes it hard to see how he would ever come to be accepted as king, though. Fear of the Chandrian still seems rampant, in Newarre at least. It doesn't seem impossible, just very improbable.

3) Iax, for causing the Creation War. He'd be powerful enough to make his way into power, through trickery or sheer intimidation. And it seems to me to be a very Rothfussian thing to do to make one of the seemingly worst villain characters - arguably responsible for every death during the Creation War (depending on your views on the Cthaeh) - genuinely repentant. It's a good shout at any rate, I think.

I wish I had the time to elaborate further, but I think the main thrust of the argument's clear, nay?
John B
50. Xenai
Just wanted to add my thanks in. I haven't done any posting, but I've thoroughly enjoyed reading along since I found this a few months ago.
Natenanimous
51. Mar
All I can say is, you guys are BRILL! Thank you, Jo, and everyone, for entertaining me all these months. Can't wait for D3!

And Jo, if I hadn't come across this reread I probably wouldn't have picked up Among Others. Lovely book, deserving of its own reread. Seriously, if any of you on this thread haven't read it yet, you need to.
Natenanimous
52. nae77blis77
Jo, thank you.

This has been a great great time and though I only comment every now and then I wanted you to know that it was appreciated. To all the regular commentators, you've helped expand my understanding and love of the 4C world, Thanks to you as well.

Jo, I'll definitely be picking up your books with my next paycheck.


Thank you everyone, I will be waiting almost as breathlessly for the D3 re-read as for D3 itself.

~Nae' Blis
Natenanimous
53. Trollfot
Thanks Jo, it's been great!

Can't wait for the interview with Pat.

Btw, am I the only one to recall something about asking a lock nicely to make it open? From Rothfuss, not Tolkien =).
Steven Halter
54. stevenhalter
Trollfot@53:The hermit in the mountains scolds Jax on "mistreating" the knot that binds the bag the tinker had given to Jax. The hermit then opens the knot by asking nicely.
John Haley
55. Ghrakmaxus
As to all the supposition for why Kvothe has been diminished in some way, I recall that Kvothe promises D that he would not try to find out who her patron is by "his good left hand and his power" or something close to that. I believe his attempt to find out who the patron is at a later date will be the catalyst for his diminished power and present circumstances within the frame story.

@38 : I wonder if the "obtaining the 3rd Stone" ritual of the Adem correlates to the Edema historical reckoning of stones being important and a reason to stop on the road.

Thanks for the re-read Ms Jo. I have enjoyed the speculation and look forward to D3 and wish the day of release was sooner rather than later.
Jo Walton
56. bluejo
Do you think it would be worth having a final speculative summary post on the things on which we have reached actual conclusions?
Steven Halter
57. stevenhalter
Jo@56:That would be a good wrap up post and place to start back up from whenever we get to D3.
Such a thing would also be helpful as a handy place to refer people to.
Felipe Martins
58. felipem
Jo@56: Absolutely, it'd also help newcommers!
Rob Munnelly
59. RobMRobM
Oh goodness, yes. Now we need to think of a catchy name....
Skip Ives
60. Skip
@56. bluejo - Yes please, I would think it would prove very helpful when D3 does come out as a refresher for everyone.

Thank you again for your thoughtful and interesting posts each week.
Skip Ives
61. Skip
@26.Spirit theif - no the ring in the Lackless poem is “unworn”, not unseen (WMF, Ch 108). The rings unseen are the rings on Kvothe’s “other hand” from the tale of Kvothe in WMF Chapter 2.

Kvothe has rings of stone, iron, amber, wood, and bone on one hand; and blood, air, ice, fire, and a nameless ring on the other hand though they are unseen. The stone, iron, air, ice and fire all seem to be rings made by a Namer, like the ring Fela wears. Which hand you wear it on seems to indicate a level of mastery (Left for a namer, right for something more. See, Chapter 43 WMF.) Does this mean that Kvothe knows the name of stone and iron, and is a master of air, water, and fire by the time we reach Kote at the inn? It implies it, but we don’t know what is myth and what is real with K, even if we accept everything that he’s told us is true (which is not a given).

The wood and bone rings are most likely the ones from Stapes and Lady Lackless. Blood could be a name like the first set, but I like it better as a reference to his constantly bloody hands, and the reference to the Amyr and Ciridae. The amber ring we’re not sure is real, but has power over demons. The last, nameless ring, I would like to think is the one that Auri gives Kvothe. It is keeping its name a secret, and maybe Kvothe's name as well.

Presumably, the ring unworn is the one she had on a necklace when she showed Kvothe the Lackless box.
George Brell
62. gbrell
@56.bluejo:

I would appreciate such a post as it would also give us somewhere to post final theories after Pat answers (some of) our questions.

@59.RobMRobM:

As for a name, I'd immediately suggest "Introduction to Not Being a Stupid Jackass," but am hoping that is the title of the Rothfuss interview/questions post.

"Master work of a master's life" seems a bit presumptuous on our parts.

I think my favorite choice would be: "A story, wrought and forgotten in a time Old and gone."
Jeremy Raiz
63. Jezdynamite
I'd like that a lot Jo.

What about a title like "Step through the Doors of Madness", "The Doors of Speculation" or "We're on the Road to Newarre"?
thistle pong
64. thistlepong
I kind of like, "We're on the road to Newarre," Jez. It reverberates between heading toward the end of the story and the possibility that many if our clever theories are pretty air castles. Plus it's got a "Road to Levinshir" vibe, with all the surprise and horror that entails. Not too presumptuous, either.
Steven Halter
65. stevenhalter
"We're on the Road to Newarre" is a good title for where we are about to go.
We know that part of D3 will take us on the road to Newarre as that is where we start in D1. The important question is will anyone at the end of D3 be on the road from Newarre.
Felipe Martins
66. felipem
Agreed on "We're on the Road to Newarre" although "The Doors of Speculation" seemed funnier ^^
Skip Ives
67. Skip
Re: We're on the Road to Newarre

Great, now I have the Talking Heads in my head. Not that it is a terribly bad think mind ...

I do like the name though; I have a weakness for puns.
Rob Munnelly
68. RobMRobM
One option is to cut it down to "The Road to Newarre" to more closely mimic "The Road to Tinue" (the title of Jo's original spoiler post).
Ashley Fox
69. A Fox
I like a final spec idea and I also like the title 'We're on the road to Newarre', for much the same reasons as Thistlepng :)

Nice one Jez, been Elodin'in it up?
Andrew Mason
70. AnotherAndrew
Jo@56: Is there anything on which we have reached actual conclusions? (Which does not mean that a wrap-up post would not be a good idea.)
Natenanimous
71. coleen
@ 20 "The Chandrian will not be the villains." Shalter, I'm in complete agreement. I've always found it interesting that Kvothe comes upon the death of his parents and troupe after they've been slain. Which means he didn't actually see the Chandrian in the act of slaying, which means that it wasn't necessarily the Chandrian who did the killing. I speculate that they may have been on the trail of those who did do the killing - the Amyr, perhaps? - and happened upon the scene shortly before young Kvothe, who assumed that they were the ones responsible.
Jo Walton
72. bluejo
Another Andrew: I have 9 things, and I wish I could find a tenth!

And from the moment I thought of it I'd decided to call this post "The Road to Newarre", for symmetry, so well done. (It's going to be tomorrow's post as I don't yet have answers back from Pat.)
Bruce Wilson
73. Aesculapius
"We're on the road to Newarre..."
Absolutely classic! Made me laugh after a long and stressful day at work. Thanks, Jez!

Jo — really? there are as many as nine things we agree on?! I do love the idea of a proper summary to pull all this together though. It's a fine and fitting way to round off what has been a great adventure!

Thank you so much for all the effort you have put into this!
Andrew Mason
74. AnotherAndrew
Jo@72: I'm sure that when they are carefully listed as things we agree on, people will challenge them.

And in common with everyone else, thanks for this brilliant reread!
thistle pong
75. thistlepong
Nah, Andrew. I can only assume those nine things are "generally agreed upon" excluding heretical opinions held alone by hermits in high caves. Even without the interview, I'm now excited for tomorrow's post.
Natenanimous
76. Trollfot
The CTH says the Chandrian killed Kvothes troupe so they could not be the good guys. Unless they work for the greater good and think a troupe is a small price to pay. That could fit, but still doesn't make them nice in my book.
Steven Halter
77. stevenhalter
Trollfot@76:The Cthaeh never says that the Chandrian killed Kvothes troupe. Its responses are all worded very carefully in the ambiguous manner of oracles.
Jeremy Raiz
78. Jezdynamite
I'm glad lots of us like that Newarre title. I also start humming the chorus of that Talking Heads song as well.

Shalter
"The important question is will anyone at the end of D3 be on the road from Newarre."

Yeah, good one. I think about that a fair it too. Why have these books managed to take over so much of my brain power? I want my life back!!

I just finished the first book in Brandon Sanderson's Mistborn series to try to take my mind off D3. Even though book 1 is really good, I can't stop thinking about KKC. Damn you Mr Rothfuss. What have you done to me.

Looking forward to tomorrow's 9 consensual theories.....
Natenanimous
79. Humph
A few linguistic/phonic oddities or parallels.

Kvothe's mother = Laurian
His lover = Fae-Laurian (Felurian)
His 'moonee' = A-Laura (Alora, aka Denna)

One of his tools is a coin. This seems to share the same pronunciation as "Quoyan", as in the name of the wind. If we accept Teh as 'key', then his tools would be Teh(lu), Quoyan and Candle. For 'candle' the only phonic relation I can think of would be related to "Caen", as seen in Kaepcaen horses. Vaguely I remember the Kaepcaen being one of the branches of the Lockless clan, but perhaps I am mistaken in this.

Also Keysera could have overtones of "Que Sera" as in "Whatever"; also with the 'Key' in the front, could there be some tie-in with Teh?

Besides being a darn fine story and detective case, I find the linguistic elements of these works simply fascinating. A marvelous job by Mr. Rothfuss!
Darren James
80. b8amack
I have problems with a few of the theories here. The largest is that Kvothe has changed his Name, which is to say that he Shaped himself (if a Name is a thing complete, then changing the Name would Shape it). I just don't think so. For all the mentions of his loss of fighting skill (perfectly normal for someone who has failed to practice the Ketan for some time. We have a saying in the martial art I practice: "After one day off, you can tell. Two days off and your opponent can tell. Three days and everyone can tell." Kvothe has been out of practice for LONG. Of course he's rusty.) as proof of his name change, but come on, he grips Bast (Bast!) and leaves bruises, unaware of his own strength. Bast is pretty clearly no wilting flower, and so we know that Kvothe is still powerful, but perhaps only when he is not paying attention. I still believe that Kvothe has lost his will, not his name.
Natenanimous
81. Redgrl
Anyone else afraid of Bast after this? Or is it only me?
Natenanimous
82. AtomicCEO
Hey guys, I've been reading a lot of these re-read posts and the speculation posts... I haven't seen anyone mention this name thing I found, and it seems significant.

When I was reading chapter 146 in WMF... I noticed that K is being referred to as "Kvothe" in the frame story. like "Alone in the common room, Kvothe swept the floor methodically"... he's not Kote to the writer.

To confirm, I went back to the beginning of WMF and I even checked the beginning and end of NoTW, and sure enough he has always been referred to as "Kote" in the frame story... up until the very end of WMF.

After reading all this speculation on him possibly changing his name, that difference jumps out as intentional. Why would PR change it up unless it was significant? It couldn't be a typo for a whole chapter, could it?
Robert Herron
83. AtomicCEO
Sorry that should be Chapter 149, not 146. Dang.
thistle pong
84. thistlepong
@bluejo

I've been comparing the chapter titles from the Kindle/HC version and the 1st print TP and MMPB versions before really digging in to textual discrepancies. I thought I'd throw in your ARC numbers as well, but this last part of WMF threw me:

Chapter 149 (151) is Locks
Chapter 147 (152) is Elderberry

Does the ARC end at chapter 147 or 150?
chris schorr
85. chrisss811
This is my post from reddit. I mailed Jo and she said that I should post it here:

Hi everybody I'm new here and want to share my thoughts and theories with you. First off, I'm sorry for my poor english because its not my first language (I'm german). This link will contain spoilers! I have read and heard both books a dozend times. I was researching almost daily new theories of you guys and think I have read almost all of them all. I'm really hooked on these stuff. I don't think that Patrick Rothfuss has giving us already the key to unravel the story yet, but I try to give some new thoughts to your amazing theories.
First off I want to call some irrefutable facts which everybody needs to know.
A: Kvothe is the son of Nethalia Lackless: Ok you remember the end of the rhyme of Arliden about his wife. - not tally a lot less - Nethlia Lackless. I didn't have the option to unravel this, because I've read the story in german. But I think this have to be evidence enough. I've first read about this theory in Joe Waltons "Under the wagon thread". Credits to her at this time.
B: Cinder is denfintly Master Ash. Maybe Bredon is Cinder too because of some 'Glamour-magic', but Cinder is Ash. When Kvothe is looking for a name for Dennas Patron he uses his naming-skills: "Frederick the Flippant. Frank. Feran. Forue. Fordale." Feran - Fe/ Forue - ru/ Fordale - le - Ferule. This have to be evidence enough.
Here are my thoughts:
Cinder: Cinder is alive! Kvothe is very carefully telling us the story. Carefully in consideration of telling us true Names. He told us Cinders true name once. The first time when Haliax named Cinder, it was "Ferula". But when the Adem gives him the true names of the Seven, it was "Ferule, chill and dark of eye". Which I think is the true name(see above - Feran, Forue, Fordale). We know that it is dangerous to call these names numerous times, because the person you name, can hear you and even know where you at. Thats the reason why he changed this name. The same thing with "Cyphus- bears the blue flame." But in the story with Tarborlin told from Marten, it was "Scyphus-the Soccerer-king". I think this is an evidence that he's alive too.
The Silence: I think Kvothe already killed one of the Seven and therefore became one of the Seven. In the discussion between Arliden and Ben about the Chandrian, they call their signs and one of them was a 'non-natural Silence' (Maybe from 'Grey Dalcenti, never speaks'). And this is probably the one Kvothe killed because now the "Silence" belongs to Kvothe. The Chandrian are always seven. And when Kvothe killed one of them, he maybe is cursed to be one of them, to stuff the hole he made.
The thrice-locked-chest: I think the man who is waiting to die, is a "man"(Chandrian) in the thrice locked box(maybe Cinder). Remember when Bast knocked at the box and then Kvothe asked him "what would you do if your knocking get a respond(or an anwser)?" The Box is constructed with iron and copper. Maybe the copper is to hold the Rhinta and the iron to let him feel a constant pain. Remember the heavy weight of the box. They say the Chandrian can't die but maybe there is a way (copper?), maybe Kvothe will sacrifice himself like Telhu with Encanis. I think the one in the box is a decoy bird, which leads me to:
The beautiful game: Kvothe is setting a trap. A trap for the Seven. The sword Folly, can't rust because its not iron( maybe copper). It cannot fall down from the wall because of the Ruah wood. The Ruah wood cannot decay. Then there is something with these brass bound barrels. Brass is something of a copper alloy. Maybe he will stick them in there. But I think there was only three barrels, not seven or six. Hmm? But these things are all prepared for an Chandrian attack(rotting wood, rusting iron, brittling bricks etc.) I think he have chosen the place and the time well, exactly like with those Scraels. He have chosen a village where almost only old people live. People who have lived there lives, excepting one - the 'Smiths-apprentice'. And that was the one he wanted to save.(and at one time he tried to warn Graham too, that he should be ready to defend himself) He knows everybody in this village (Newarre-Nowhere) will die. That is not the way of Bushido, sorry i mean Lethani, but it is for the greater good. But he wanted to save the apprentice and that was Lethani. And this whole trap - isnt both of it. It is the "beautiful game". A trap in a trap etc.
Alchemie: Kvothe has lost all magic skills excepting one. There is one magic you dont need body or mental skills. Alchemie - there for you need knowledge. Alchemie is the form of magic which bored Kvothe and he didn't learn in his story so far. But we know that he is Alchemie-skilled in the real time. He knows the Cellum Tinkture etc. He wants Bast to learn Alchemie. I think Alchemie is a big key weapon in fighting the Seven.
Some Alchemie: Cyphus is related to copper. Cyprus. Cyprus is the Island where Copper came from. Coppers(Cuprum) liguistic origin came from the word Cyprus. Cinder is related to mercury. Remeber he moves like mercury. Originally the word mercury meant "living silver". Stercus is in thrall of iron. I've read a great theorie about the seven alchemie Symbols of the ancient time: lead, tin, silver, mercury, iron, copper and finally gold, I think everyone of the Seven is related to one and is bound with them,like Stercus with iron and Cyphus with copper.And I think they can be used against them. Aurum for example means gold in latin. I think Auri is a key to this puzzle too.
The blue fire(or flame): Ok, Cyphus bears the blue flame and Cyphus could be related to copper. But why flames are turning blue in his presence? Laurian told Abenthy that a blue flame can be caused by natural gas, which is true. I googled a bit about the phenomen blue flame, and the easiest method to produce blue fire is to use copper chloride. Just spread copper chlorid over a campfire(or hearthfire) and the flames will turn blue. (When you burn copper sulphat you will get a blue-green flame). Another important attribute of copper chloride is that it will chorode most metals. Iron corrosion can be precipitated by copper chlorid. Remember that one sign of the Chandrian is rusting iron. This doesn't fit the theorie that every Chandrian is related to one sign, and Stercus seemed related to iron. It's just a thought. Maybe Cyphus or Stercus abstract copper chlorid somehow? Ok, that sounds weird, but in my head it had made more sense. I have read that Patrick Rothfuss studied chemical engineer. I think that Chemie and Alchmie will be very significant in 'Day 3.'
Kvothes weapons against the Chandrian: (We know that demons fear pure Fire, Iron and mirrorglass(and the holy name of god, of course))
AlchemieKeyCoinCandleFolly(copper, or magic iron?) the Waystone Inn itself: Tarborlin was in a prison of stone and he only had a coin, a candle and a key. Kvothe is in a big stone-house(maybe waystones) and had these weapons too. Maybe the Waystone Inn is made of big waystones. The Chandrian don't appear near waystones. Why? We know that waystones standing on safe places. Maybe the Waystones handicap the Chandrian in some way? The VALARITAS-Door is a big waystone too. Kvothe told us about an place called Faeriniel(when he told Sim and Wil the story about Sceop). He said that this is a place you cannot find when you looking for it. You only can find it when you travel to another place. I think the Waystone Inn is on this place(Newarre). There often appear travellers like at the beginning of TNOTW, or the possesed soldier, or the Chronicler, or the two soldier at the end of TWMF, etc. The Waystone Inn attract them like a lodestone. We know that waystones attract people. They draw them somehow magnetic. Maybe waystones don't brickle by an Chandrian attack.
I think the Chronicler is more then he seems. There is something important about him. Yes i know he's a Lochees (Lackless). Maybe at the end oft the story he will be the hero of the KKC. Kvothe tells him the story for a reason. It is not in Kvothes nature to tell his story just to demystify himself for the afterworld. I think he is part of Kvothes game. The story he tells is a part of his game. He is luring them with his story. So what about Bastas? Hmm. Maybe he is not so sympathetic to Kvothe as he claims to be. But Kvothe is too clever and too much of an actor. He is acting infront of Bast and he plays him like a lute. I think Bast is Felrurians child and want something from Kvothe. He want something from Kvothe, not from Kote and thats why he wants his old Reshi back.
By the way, there are some thoughts I can't really back up but i will list them anyway: The Symphathie-Crime against Kvothe don't come from Ambrose. I don't think so. Maybe someone else attacked him with his blood. The same thing with these two assassins. Maybe Ambrose don't send them. Someone has his hidden hand on Kvothe since the beginning of the story. Why did Scarpi know his name. Why did Lorren know Arliden. Why did Denna say it's her job to know things about kvothe. Why did Denna appear everywhere Kvothe goes? Why did Bredon flatter on Kvothe. Why did sometimes stranges people appear in the story(for example before his ship-journey or when he left Vintas and wanted to throw Meluans ring away). I think Kvothe is watched and controlled by a gray eminence.
The Univesity is not what it seems to be. It is not a place where some teachers are really excited for to teach you powerfull names, so you can get happy with them. Elodin said Kvothe doesnt know to what he commits himself. He said the University is not a big playground. I think the University is a big watchtower for the VALARITAS-Door. The masters are teaching them these names for some reason. Why is Elodin so enthusiatic to teach Kvothe the name of the wind? I hope you can help me with this thoughts.
Another thing i noticed is that Puppet is allowed to have candles in his room in the library. Maybe Lorren was not flipping because he was in fear that the books catch fire, but rather cause the four-plate-door can be affected by fire somehow. Maybe there is something alchemistic with this door too. Remember the four Elements of Alchemie: Fire, Water, Air and Earth.
Well, I'm sorry for the long post and my bad english(and my terrible grammar), I'm trying to improve it. I hope you can give me some feedback on my theories.
George Bracken
86. jorgybear
As late as I was to the party, I've dearly loved this blog, and am sorry it's come to an end (though I will probably, some time soon, go back to the beginning and actually re-read the books along with you, to see what else I might have missed, and what other theories I can come up with. Thank you Jo, Thank You.
Steven Halter
87. stevenhalter
jorgybear@86:There are a bunch of posts after this one. So, no need to stop.

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