sigh... It amazes me that his work is as popular as it is. His fans are notoriously homophobic bigots. I remember going on one of his forums (years ago), suggesting that maybe perhaps he could make one gay Fables character and they all viciously attacked me. You know the usual insults these kinds of "people" hurl.

Considering how he proudly declares he listens to Rush Limbaugh, I strongly suspect he shares their views.

I've known and worked and been friends with many people of all sexual orientations. I've gone to outings where I've known that I was the only straight person there, listend to conversations of a sexual nature with gay friends where they described their interests and preferences in depth, and have been to "gay clubs" far more than once. I have never said (or written) a negative word to anyone regarding their sexual orientation in my life.

But apparently I am a "notoriously homophobic bigot" because I've been reading Willingham's work since 1986? Good to know. Thanks for explaining it to me CoryJ. Now that I am aware of this, and that I am one of "these people", how should I proceed next? Do I get a membership? Register with a site? Are there dues?

I have been reading Fables for years and the fables message board and I find CoreY's post wildly inaccurate and totally insulting to Bill Willingham and all of his fans. This is an attack on everyone and has nothing to do with the novel under discussion.

I'd say Fables has a pretty diverse readership. Aside from Willingham's hawkish attitudes on foreign policy, it's pretty hard to discern anything else about his politics from the comics (he doesn't seem to like whiney, entitled, self-absorbed types, but that's neither a conservative or liberal position).

If you're going to reject a writer's work because you "suspect" that he has views you don't share that have little or no relevence to the work, you're really limiting yourself. You may be shocked to discover that many writers, artists, actors, musicians, etc. whose work you like have attitudes and beliefs you find distasteful.

I've never been on any Willingham forums, so I can't comment on the type of postings found there, but I hardly have to point out that the anonymous nature of internet forums brings out the cowards, bigots, and crackpots. When you assume that these people represent the "typical" Willingham reader, you're also dangerously close to indulging in a form of bigotry every bit as distasteful as that which you condem.

By the way, you'll find others more willing to listen to your perspective if you don't open comments with a condescending "sigh."

It seems weird to pitch Down the Mysterly River as a new book. Wasn't it first published a good ten years ago? I ran across it a few years ago in PDF form on some eBook website, supposedly an ad-supported authorized ebook edition. (Was it really authorized? I hope so, but I have no way of knowing.) The copyright page says (c) 2001, published by Clockwork Storybook with ISBN 0-9704841-3-5. Perhaps this is a revised edition, but I don't see how it can be a "brand new book."

It's a neat story, well paced, with what I found to be an unexpected twist and moral, exciting and quite charming.

And... one bit of the original afterword left such a bad taste in my mouth that it spoiled my enjoyment of the book, and put me off reading Fables for a while, as he denounces anybody who criticizes the Boy Scouts (presumably those who oppose the Boy Scouts' policy barring gay kids from joining) as "organized groups of social architects, for whom the right of free association means forced association, and the word ‘tolerance’ has become a shibboleth which justifies any amount of viciousness, bile and intolerance."

Individual fans of Fables might or not be homophobic - I like the concept and the storytelling myself, so I suppose that makes me a fan. However that certainly reads to me as if Mr. Willingham feels strongly that gay people should not have equal rights and should not be tolerated, and that anybody who feels differently must be part of some big conspiracy; that's the only way I could parse the paragraph I excerpted.

@ CliftonR,

The original Down the Mysterly River is said to have had a print run of approximately 100 copies (due to lack of interest and/or awareness). So for print buyers, this is essantially a brand new book. I don't know the eBook situation. Perhaps it has been revised? Perhaps Tor is stretching the truth? Perhaps they are relying on a technicality? I don't know.

@ CliftonR,

As for the sentence that you site, I am reluctant to comment on such things out of context. It is easy to misunderstand and make mistakes. But, I will try.

It seems to me that Willingham is arguing that the organization of the Boy Scouts is worthwhile, despite it's shortcomings. This is nothing new. There are many many organizations that manage to make mistakes, act imperfectly, etc. Governments are a great example. But would someone argue that a Government should be overthrown for one wrong policy? Even a very wrong policy? That seems to me like the view that Willingham might hold here.

Also, imo, he quite dislikes being told who he has to and cannot associate with, which is something that he feels that certain groups are using as a litmus test. I know that some people quite dislike being told such things on principle, and naturally rebel.

Further, imo he seems to feel that at least some of the groups in question are being quite offensive in their campaign. That does not necessarily mean that he disagrees with their goals (though he might, idk). But it is completely possible to agree with a goal but disagree with how one goes about achieving that goal.

Mr. Willingham could hold the position that you ascribe to him, but imo that sentence can absolutely be read in a way that says that he feels that the BSA is an organization too important to be boiled down to whether or not they admit gay members. And that those organizations opposing it's stance on this issue are behaving in a way that he finds offensive.

I don't know Willingham nor I've read anything of his, so I can't comment in context or say anything about his beliefs.
I have however been a boy scout and a scout leader and can say that, while it's legal for the BSA to set up membership rules, it's totally against the spirit of the scout movement to leave people out because of sexual orientation, gender or religious faith (or lack thereof).
The BSA is also known to be a bully in the international scout organizations, threatening to cut back funding unless they get things done their way.