Sep 21 2010 2:16pm

The Wheel of Time Re-read: Winter’s Heart, Part 19

Where y’ at, WOTers? Son of a gun, but we’re gonna have some fun on the Wheel of Time Bayou Re-read!

Today’s entry covers Chapters 28 and 29 of Winter’s Heart, in which a plot almost fails to thicken, but gets a good dollop of ta’veren cornstarch at the last minute. It’s all about making a roux, y’all.

Previous re-read entries are here. The Wheel of Time Master Index is here, in which you can find links to news, reviews, and all manner of information regarding the latest release, The Gathering Storm, and for WOT-related stuff in general.

This re-read post contains spoilers for all currently published Wheel of Time novels, up to and including Book 12, The Gathering Storm. If you haven’t read, read at your own risk.

And now, the gently simmering post!

Chapter 28: News in a Cloth Sack

What Happens
In bed the morning after Mat promised to help Teslyn and Joline escape, Tylin tells him that Suroth is taking her on a tour to show her how much of Altara Tylin now controls, at Tuon’s suggestion. Tylin will be gone for over a week, and Mat is immensely relieved when she doesn’t insist he accompany her, though she does semi-threaten to tie him to the bed until she returns. Mat rides down to the docks with Tylin and Suroth and their huge entourage, and the pain the ride puts him in convinces him that for now the only way he’s leaving Ebou Dar is either by sea or by Valan Luca’s show. He has a notion of how to make Luca leave before spring, though it is risky. Mat watches one of the sul’dam in the party, linked to a damane named Pura, one of the former Aes Sedai.

He had not really believed Teslyn when she said the woman had become a true damane, but the graying sul’dam leaned low in her saddle to say something to the woman who had been Ryma Galfrey, and whatever it was the sul’dam murmured, Pura laughed and clapped her hands in delight.

Mat shivered. She would bloody well shout for help if he tried to take the a’dam from her neck. Light, what was he thinking of! Bad enough that he was stuck with pulling three Aes Sedai’s bacon off the fire for them—Burn him, but he did seem to get lumbered with doing that every time he bloody turned around!—bad enough that, without thinking about trying to get any more out of Ebou Dar.

They reach the docks, and Tylin pinches Mat goodbye before climbing aboard with a very impatient-looking Suroth. As Mat watches them set sail, he notes all the Sea Folk rakers in the harbor, all now with Seanchan crews, and tries not to think about the Sea Folk da’covale currently mucking out the Rahad. He also notes the sul’dam-damane pairs inspecting every ship leaving the harbor, and concludes that Luca is the least risky choice, though that isn’t saying much. Noal pops up as soon as Mat returns to the Palace, and offers his services for whatever Mat is planning. Mat tells him he isn’t planning anything, and Noal smiles and observes that Mat doesn’t trust him yet. He points out that if Noal meant Mat harm all he would have had to do was let the gholam get him in that alley.

“You have the look in your eye. I’ve seen great men laying plans, and villains dark as the Pit of Doom, too. There is a look a man gets, laying dangerous plans he doesn’t want known.”

Mat laughs this off. Noal then asks him if the gholam drinks blood; Mat asks why, and Noal tells him a man was found in the city with his throat torn out but no blood at the scene. Then he looks behind Mat, bows, tells Mat he’s ready if Mat changes his mind, and leaves; Mat turns to see Tuon there, but she walks off as soon as he sees her. Mat shivers and thinks it’s a shame Tuon hadn’t gone with Suroth and Tylin.

A man given a loaf should not complain that a few crumbs were missing, but Aes Sedai and Seanchan, gholam stalking him and old men poking their noses in and skinny girls staring at him was enough to give any man the golliwogs.

Mat retrieves the rest of his old clothes, and an amused Juilin finds him studying himself in the mirror and muttering that maybe his coat needs a little lace. Mat realizes from his comment about Suroth that the woman Juilin is interested in must be a da’covale of Suroth’s, but figures that not nearly as bad as planning to steal her damane. Mat tells Juilin that he needs him to steal a damane dress, three sul’dam dresses, and an a’dam. Juilin is incensed at the implication he is a thief, but Mat tells him grimly that the only chance they have of getting the Aes Sedai out of the city is if the guards think they’re still damane.

“Teslyn and Edesina are wearing what they need, but we have to disguise Joline. Suroth will be back in ten days, Juilin. If we aren’t gone by then, in all likelihood your pretty will still be her property when we go.” He could not help feeling that if they were not gone by then, none of them would be going.

Juilin grimaces and mutters it won’t be easy, and neither are the days that follow. Mat has to endure the servants’ disapproval and attempts to sabotage his evident intention to leave, which Mat is making as obvious as possible in order to keep any blame from the fallout after from falling on Tylin. He sees Teslyn being walked several times, and she seems more determined and more panicked each time, which seriously worries Mat, but he doesn’t dare risk going to the kennels again to reassure her, with the way Tuon continues to pop up near him at odd moments. Mat wishes Tuon had gone with Anath on her “retreat,” whatever that meant. Noal and Thom bring news of a fresh gholam killing every day, and Mat starts sleeping in a different place every night. Mat is also worried about Beslan, who had barged in on Mat, Thom and Juilin’s meeting (where Thom had come up with the idea to walk the Aes Sedai out as damane) and wants to “help” with an uprising, claiming there are hundreds in the city ready to rise up with him and his friends. Mat tries to reason with him, pointing out that the Seanchan will turn Ebou Dar into “a slaughter yard” in retaliation if he tries it, not to mention that it will probably get both Beslan and Tylin beheaded.

“She says we are mice,” Beslan said bitterly. “ ‘When wolf-hounds pass by, mice lie quiet or get eaten,’ ” he quoted. “I don’t like being a mouse, Mat.”

Mat breathed a little more easily. “Better a live mouse than a dead one, Beslan.” Which might not have been the most diplomatic way to put it—Beslan grimaced at him—but it was true.

They eventually manage to convince Beslan to wait until a month after Mat et al are gone. Juilin discovers that the only viable time to free the damane is at night, and also is having trouble obtaining the dresses and a’dam; Thom discovers that the only way to walk damane out even with disguises is to have a signed and sealed order from either one of the Blood or a high-ranking officer, which he has to have before he can forge. They discuss who can be their three “sul’dam”; Mat is already planning to use Setalle Anan for Joline’s sul’dam, though he hasn’t actually asked her yet, but they cannot come to a consensus on who the other two should be. Juilin opines that his “Thera” would not be able to keep up the pretense, and Thom says Riselle is in love with a Seanchan officer and would refuse. Seven days have passed since Tylin left and they are at an impasse. The gholam keeps killing, putting the city in an uproar, and Thom tells Mat the Seekers are under secret orders to find and stop the culprit at all costs. Mat is appalled that Thom is talking to Listeners, but Thom pooh-poohs the risk. Patrols have been stepped up in response to the murders as well, which thrills Mat not at all. Then there are two days left.

At midday, Juilin brought him the only really good news he had heard in an Age. It was not news, exactly. It was a cloth sack containing two dresses wrapped around the silver length of an a’dam.

Aw, poor stressed-out Mat. Yeah, we hate waiting, too, man.

Which is basically what this chapter is, so I’m disinclined to dwell overmuch on the mechanics of it except to say that as usual Jordan is very good at making his readers just as on edge and irritable as his characters are. This is, as I’ve noted, both a good thing and a bad thing.

The next book after this (Crossroads of Twilight) is very much a blur for me, and Knife of Dreams isn’t much better, so while I know we get much more of an insight into Tuon’s motivations and so forth re: Mat during their very strange courtship in those two books, I don’t really remember a lot about it. I’m interested, therefore, to find out if she ever tells us whether or not getting Suroth and Tylin out of the Palace was a total set-up on her part, or not.

It was her idea, evidently, after all. Though it’s possible I’m giving her way too much credit in the foresight department, or alternately in the department of—I don’t know, cold-bloodedness? Diabolical savvy? Somethingto facilitate her own kidnapping like that. Is the idea even plausible? I’m not sure. But it did occur to me.

As a side note, Tylin deserves smackings for many reasons, but ruining Mat’s fashion sense for all time is definitely one of the bigger ones. I’m sorry, I know this totally reflects my own cultural prejudices and is bad, but I can’t help it: men and lace should be extremely unmixy things, the end. Because the image of Mat looking like he was attacked by Liberace’s wardrobe is deeply, deeply wrong and I would like it to stop now, please. Gyah.

And we finally get a name for Juilin’s honey, though I’m pretty sure most of the fandom had long since picked up the cluebat on this one. And… well, that’s about it, really. So, yay, I guess?

Pura: Dude, that is seriously one of the creepiest things ever. No, it’s not creepy, it’s offensive. I know it’s true and it’s been documented and all, Stockholm Syndrome and brainwashing and Patty Hearst and all that, but it just deeply offends me on a visceral level to believe that a person’s core identity can be soviolable. That a person can be broken like that, broken so badly that they probably can never be fixed. Forget Trollocs or Darkhounds or even the gholam on a killing spreewhat happened to Ryma Galfrey, that’s the stuff of nightmares.

Anath: Her “retreat” here is to clue us in on the timeline of Mat’s arc relative to the others, though naturally it ends up being misleading. Initially the assumption was that Semirhage was taking a powder in order to tear around with the rest of the Forsaken trying to find Rand before he possibly blows them all up and/or gives the Dark One’s plans a serious wedgie, take your pick, but then of course we find out later that she was indulging in a bit of regicide and mass slaughter one continent over instead. You know, like you do. So, er, yeah.

Also, “golliwogs” is an awesome word. That is all.


Chapter 29: Another Plan

What Happens
In the basement of the inn, Joline flatly refuses to put on the a’dam, saying she asked for help, not “a noose around [her] neck”; Mat growls back that it’s the only way, and she trusts Setalle, doesn’t she? Joline’s Warders (Fen and Blaeric) back her up threateningly, but then Setalle informs Joline that she intends to see Joline back in the White Tower, and she’d appreciate seeing Joline behave like an Aes Sedai instead of “a novice sniveling in her bed.” Joline is astounded, and Mat jumps in to explain to Setalle that her part won’t require her to go very far beyond the gate, and then she can return home. To his surprise, Setalle is incensed that Mat thinks she’s willing to stay anywhere women are “turned into animals” because they can channel, and tells him she’s already sold her inn and intends to leave with her family as soon as the matter of Joline is settled. Mat tries to say delicately that there will only be so much room the way they’re going, and points out it would be better for her to wait until the furor over two damane disappearing dies down. This is news to Joline, who demands to know who the second sister is; Mat winces, thinking she is going to kick up a petulant fuss about an additional Aes Sedai, and tells her reluctantly that it is Edesina.

“Edesina,” Joline said slowly. A tiny frown creased her smooth forehead. “I heard that she had—” Whatever she had heard, she snapped her teeth shut on it and fixed him a fierce stare. “Are they holding any other sisters? If Teslyn is getting free, I won’t leave any other sister to them!”

It took an effort on Mat’s part not to gape. Petulant and spoiled? He was looking at a lioness to match Blaeric and Fen. “Believe me, I won’t leave an Aes Sedai in the kennels unless she wants to stay,” he said, making his voice as wry as he could. The woman was still willful. She might insist on trying to rescue the other two like Pura. Light, he should never have let himself get tangled with Aes Sedai, and he did not need any ancient memories to warn him! His own would do very well, thank you.

The Warders poke him for his impudence, but Joline accepts this, and Mat thinks that Aes Sedai rarely expect people to use their own truth-twisting tricks on them. Setalle then tells him her family have gone on ahead in the boats to Illian; Joline is scornful of this, and Setalle tells her off, calling her “Green.” Joline suddenly asks if they’ve met before, saying her voice is familiar, and Setalle changes the subject by telling Mat they need to test the a’dam. Mat is confused by this, and Setalle explains to him that not every woman can be a sul’dam; she “has hopes” she can do it, but they should find out ahead of time. Mat is aghast that this hadn’t occurred to him, and opens the collar and bracelet (annoyed that no one is impressed he figured out how to do it) for Setalle. Setalle puts on the bracelet, and after a moment Joline allows her to put the collar on her.

Side by side, the two women took a small step, brushing by Mat, and he began to breathe. Joline frowned uncertainly. Then they took a second step.

With a cry, the Aes Sedai fell to the floor, writhing in agony. She could not form words, only increasingly louder moans. She huddled in on herself, her arms and legs and even her fingers twitching and crooking at odd angles.

Setalle hurriedly takes the collar off while Fen and Blaeric try to massage Joline’s pain away, glaring at Mat; Mat ignores them, seeing his whole scheme falling apart. He mutters to Setalle that they’ll try something else as he leaves, but knows he doesn’t have another idea. Despondently, Mat heads back to the Palace, only to be stopped by the Illianer so’jhin from the inn’s kitchen the day Joline had arrived, who greets Mat by name. Mat asks if he knows him.

The heavyset man beamed a wide smile at him. “Fortune prick me, I do. You did take a memorable voyage on my ship, once, with Trollocs and Shadar Logoth at one end and a Myrddraal and Whitebridge in flames at the other. Bayle Domon, Master Cauthon. Do you remember me now?”

“I remember.” He did, after a fashion. Most of that voyage was vague in his head, tattered by the holes those other men’s memories had filled. “We’ll have to sit down over hot spiced wine some time and talk over old times.” Which would never happen if he saw Domon first. What remained in his memory of that voyage was strangely unpleasant, like remembering a deathly illness. Of course, he had been ill, in a way. Another unpleasant memory.

But Domon answers, no time like the present, and semi-manhandles Mat back into the inn and then up to a room above instead of the common room, which Mat does not like at all. Inside the room, he introduces Mat to “Captain of the Green Lady Egeanin Tamarath,” who he also recognizes from the kitchen that day. Egeanin immediately tells him that Domon says Mat is “not unfamiliar with danger,” and wants to hire him, along with two of his companions named Thom Merrilin and Juilin Sandar, to crew a boat for her. She adds that Thom and Juilin know her, and know they can trust her with their lives. Blatantly disregarding Seanchan protocol, Mat sits down and bluntly asks when her ship is leaving; Egeanin is angered, but answers, by the end of spring at the latest. Mat sighs, but asks how she knows Thom and Juilin; Egeanin is about to throw him out for asking too many questions, but Domon insists that he must know the truth to help them. Finally, Egeanin tells Mat that she gave Thom and Juilin “some small aid” in Tanchico, along with two women with themElayne Trakand and Nynaeve al’Meara. Startled, Mat wonders what on earth they had been doing in Tanchico that required a Seanchan’s help, but decides it is beside the point.

Egeanin wanted men who could keep her secrets and did not mind danger. She herself was in danger. Very little was dangerous to one of the Blood, except for other Blood and…“The Seekers are after you,” he said.

The way her head came up was confirmation enough, and her hand went to her side as though reaching for a sword. Domon shifted his feet and flexed his big hands, his eyes on Mat. Eyes suddenly harder than Egeanin’s. The thick man no longer looked funny; he looked dangerous. Abruptly it came to Mat that he might not leave the room alive.

“If you need to get away from the Seekers, I can help you,” he said quickly. “You’ll have to go where the Seanchan aren’t in control. Anywhere they are, the Seekers can find you. And it’s best to go as soon as possible.”

He adds that Thom tells him the Seekers seem to be gearing up for something, “getting the rack ready”; Egeanin stares at him and says maybe leaving quickly would be better. She points out, however, that while the Seekers won’t stop her leaving, they will definitely follow her, and she will need to vanish once they’ve gone beyond Seanchan-occupied lands. Taking a gamble, Mat tells her he can make her vanish nowif she can get him three sul’dam who will keep their mouths shut. After a moment, she nods, and Mat smiles. Back at the Palace, Thom and Juilin seem less than thrilled at the news of Egeanin and Domon, but reluctantly admit that they are trustworthy, though Juilin mutters about Domon and smuggling. Mat declares that they are leaving the following night, then.

“And these sul’dam are going to take three Aes Sedai out of the city, let them go, and never think of raising an alarm,” Juilin muttered. “Once, while Rand al’Thor was in Tear, I saw a tossed coin land on its edge five times in a row. We finally walked away and left it standing there on the table. I suppose anything can happen.”

“Either you trust them or you don’t, Juilin,” Mat growled.

He asks what happened in Tanchico; Juilin thinks they shouldn’t tell because Nynaeve and Elayne said not to, but Thom overrides him and tells Mat that they helped dispose of a male a’dam which the Black Ajah wanted to use on Rand, though Thom is almost more concerned about rumors of the thing getting out than the thing itself. Mat assures him he’ll keep mum.

Mat understood, in a manner of speaking. A man always tried to make whoever was commanding the troops against him believe that he was doing something other than what he was, that he was going where he had no intention of going, and the enemy tried to do the same to him, if the enemy was any good at the craft. Sometimes both sides could get so confused that very strange things happened. Tragedies, sometimes. Cities burned that no one had any interest in burning, except that the burners believed what was untrue, and thousands died.

Mat asks if anyone has told Rand about this male a’dam; Thom supposes that Elayne and Nynaeve would have let him know, and Juilin doesn’t see why it matters since the thing is at the bottom of the ocean. They all go to bed, and Mat tries to convince himself there is no sentiment behind his choice to sleep in Tylin’s bed one more time. He thinks their plan is a good one, but also that no battle ever goes according to plan.

Great captains earned their reputation not just for laying brilliant plans, but for still being able to find victory after those plans began to fall apart. So when first light illumined the windows, he was still lying there, rolling the medallion across the back of his fingers and trying to think of what was going to go wrong.

I love it when a plan ta’verens together, don’t you?

Once again I have to chuckle at the cheeky narrative brilliance of Jordan’s ta’veren plot device, which is the reason I can’t call bullshit on the oh-so-terribly convenient appearance of Egeanin and her built-in sul’dam defectors riiiight at this pivotal juncture, when Mat’s whole scheme is about to go splat. Well, I can, call bullshit I mean, but it would be a waste of breath. I say, just go with it and enjoy the forward momentum.

Because really, man, whatever gets us the hell out of this damn city already. Ebou Dar is so last year’s vacation spot, you guys. So Over. And the tourists, ugh! Never again.

Joline: Sort of redeems herself here, I guess. In a typically obnoxious way, of course, but it’s good that she still has some team spirit. It’s hilarious how Setalle is obviously so ready to smack her into next week.

Speaking of whom: Yeah, I don’t know who Setalle thinks she’s kidding, here. She may as well have “FORMER AES SEDAI” tattooed on her forehead at this point. Calling Joline “Green” clinched it if nothing else did.

From what I recall, Mat really does have some basis for being annoyed that no one is impressed that he can open the a’dam. I’m not real clear on this, but my distinct impression is that as a matter of fact, no one else has ever figured out how to do it!

Well, no one who’s not Seanchan, anyway. But I’m not certain how much of this has to do with Mat not being able to channel, since I can only recall other channelers trying to open it before this. Aviendha couldn’t do it in TFOH, and Nynaeve cheated, since as I recall she didn’t manually open the collar on Egwene in TGH, but popped it off with the Power. But, I could be wrong.

The abortive a’dam test itself generated a small amount of controversy in the fandom, by the way. If you recall, back in LOC Siuan and Leane tried wearing Moghedien’s a’dam bracelet while stilled, and Moggy had none of the violent effects Joline does here. In addition, Siuan and Leane could feel Moghedien through the link, even if they couldn’t make her do anything. Which led many people to wonder why the difference between that and what happened with Joline and Setalle.

The argument was that the difference came in owing to the fact that Setalle/Martine had been burned out, as opposed to stilled like Siuan and Leane. Thus, the theory went, there must be a significant difference between the “injury” of a burned-out channeler and that of someone who is stilled (or gentled). Meaning, perhaps also unlike Siuan and Leane (and Logain, etc.), burned-out channelers like Setalle could not in fact be Healed and made able to channel again.

Which makes perfect sense, as far as it goes; it’s logical to think that burning yourself out in an uncontrolled manner could be a far worse trauma than being ritually severed. Kind of like the difference between having an arm cut off, and having it torn off. (Ow.)

There’s one big problem, though, which is that neither Siuan, Leane, nor Moghedien actually tried to move during their test in LOC. Joline didn’t get zapped until she and Setalle tried to move; if Moggy had tried to move during the LOC test, it might have had quite a different outcome, for all we know. Additionally, we can’t know whether Setalle felt anything through the a’dam or not here with Joline, since the scene is from Mat’s POV and Setalle declined to say anything about it to him one way or the other.

So the evidence is inconclusive, and I get to cling to my somewhat random stubborn hope that Setalle can get Healed someday. Nyah!

Sad Bracelets: *headdesk*

Well, that’s classic WOT if I ever saw it. Keeping secrets for stupid reasons? Check. Misinformation? Check. Assuming facts not in evidence? Check! Assuming people actually talk to each other in the face of all blatant evidence to the contrary? CHECK!


A theme which is echoed in a way by Mat’s thoughts on battles I quoted above, as well. I’ve watched or read a fair number of war movies/series/novels/whatever in my time, and the ones that (in my opinion) most obviously had a clue what they were talking about were invariably the ones where, in any given battle, the most dominant feature of the fighting was that no one in the midst of it had a goddamn clue what the hell was going on. Being in battle, I get the distinct impression, is like going temporarily insane in more ways than just the obvious.

And that’s what I got for this one, peoples. Come join me next time to watch as it all goes battle-shaped for Mat and Co. Laters!

Heidi Byrd
1. sweetlilflower
I, too, hope Setalle can be healed. Another great post, Leigh.

Edit: I think this post will not even make it to 100 posts. Everyone is all excited about the prologue and chapter 8 of ToM. Leigh, don't take it as a personal slight :)

Edit Part Deux: I was wrong, horribly wrong. This post will make it past 200 comments. I thought everyone would jump on the other WoT threads and leave this one alone. Someone prepare the crow, I have my fork and knife ready...
John Massey
2. subwoofer
Yes I are...

As far as this bit goes- I am still on the fence with Domon. His character has always felt off to me. From "entrepreneur" to favorite slave, I do not like the feel of the way he is written back in.

Edit to add- yes I are excited!!!

And weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!

3. alreadymadwithmatchapters
These chapters were pure Mat made of awesome Cauthon...
Roger Powell
4. forkroot
Leigh - I had never twigged to the idea that Tuon may have been behind Suroth and Tylin's convenient excursion. Makes sense, although it's not clear why she felt she would need to help prophecy move along.

Not spoiling anything to mention that the recently available Chapter 8 of TOM confirms your worst fears about Tylin ruiing Mat's fashion sense.

And Mat - gotta love how he goes out of his way to make sure that Tylin and Beslan are not implicated in his escape. He's so damn heroic, but his internal dialogue never owns up to it. Classic Mat (which, BTW, many agree that BWS seems to have "got" now for the TOM chapter we saw.)
Tina A
5. Tinaa
and now, the gently simmering post!

and now, I'm giggling before I've even started the post itself! Thanks Leigh, I love this re-read!

edit - where did that 'e' come from?
Justin Vickers
6. ScoundrelTheToy
Awww, I was hoping for a non-spoiler review of TOM. A Mat re-read is good enough though! One thing I'd like to say about adam that I realized a few days ago.

I had the thought of what would happen if a suldam slapped a collar on a woman channeler that was already in a circle? Correct me if I'm wrong, but the answer is nothing. Thus the adam becomes useless since linking and making circles is very easy.

If you don't understand, the adam in effect when slapped on a channeler creates or forces the collared channeler to enter an involuntary circle with the suldam in full control. We know from Aes Sedai that a woman cannot leave a circle until the person who controls that circle lets them go. So basically the thinking is as long as a woman is in a circle the adam cannot force her to leave that circle and thus be under the suldams influence.

Knowing this brings about the question of how Egwene, Nynaeve and/or Elayne have not come to this realiztion yet? If you know the adam forces a circle and know the general rules of circles then putting two and two is not difficult.

One last thought on this is that if Robert Jordan realized this simple tactic to combat the adam then he would have planned to use it I would think. Egwene's thoughts about the adam during the White Tower attack and Cadsuane's efforts on a way to defeat the adam lead me believe that someone will in fact figure out to defeat the adam!
Maggie K
8. SneakyVerin
Another great post Leigh!
I wondered if Tuon was already scoping out Mat as well...she would have already had her "clues" regarding him being her future husband so it is possible
I too agree that Eaginin coming to the "rescue" with her own needed rescue was a bit too convenient, but due to how dang long they'd been working on "getting out of town", I think I would have beleived anything!
I found Joline oh sooooo annoying in these chapters...Makes me have a resentful spot for the Green who I had rather liked previously...and yes, Setalle is way too obvious! But she does deserve to be healed properly. Hopefully the Asha'man method???
9. mehndeke
Jambaliya! It's always fun watching Mat get himself into a pickle!
Rob Munnelly
10. RobMRobM
"...enjoy the forward momentum." Vorkosigan FTW!

Agree that not much happens in these chapters but it is fun to watch Mat operate. Pretty cagey to figure out that Eg is being bothered by Seekers.

Agree with Leigh that ta'verneness is just about the best and most useful magical concept ever, from a novelist's standpoint. Never have to worry about too many concidences affecting the reader's supension of disbelief.


Edit - If I say "Wow, I'm number 10!!!!!" can I get a kitten from Torie?
Lannis .
11. Lannis
Re: golliwogs.

I love RJ's use of language in this series. There're so many examples of fabricated language that are easily understood by the reader... ie: golliwogs. Completely fabricated, and yet no need to explain--context says it all. So good! Verisimilitude FTW! Just one of those little things about WoT that I love. :)

Thanks as always for the recap, Leigh! Have a great week! :D

EDIT: GD grammar getting away from me...
Matthew Smith
12. blocksmith
Leigh...thanks for brightening the day. Although, I will say I am surprised you did not even mention Chapter the 8th and the prologue being out.

I think the most frustrating thing about the male a'dam was that Mat had just come from talking to the people/couple that was supposed to drop the damn thing...and then finds out from someone else that it existed...with no mention from Thom and Juilin that the "couple" with the responsibility to do it was in fact Egeanin and Domon. Is that like reverse Chekov's gun?

And yes...the personality corruption that was/is Ryma to Pura is very disturbing. It reminds me of "Roots" and the hobbling after escape attempts/changing a person's name. Very disturbing.

Relative to Satelle being healed...I hope for it, but think it unlikely based on the very evidence you presented.
Ron Garrison
13. Man-0-Manetheran
"Tylin tells him that Suroth is taking her on a tour to show her how much of Altara Tylin now controls, at Tuon’s suggestion." I'm currently re-reading CoT, and I've been noticing lots of clues that Tuon had decided to be kidnapped by Mat. This might be one of the first clues to that idea. From her many encounters with Mat, she seems to be studying him intensly. And given how she leans upon prophecy and signs, it seems entirely likely that she has decided that Mat is crucial to her future. Everyone in the palace knows he is trying to escape, so Tuon "suggests" that Suroth take Tylin on an extended trip. And then she just happens to be in the right place at the right time to be kidnapped.

And no, Leigh, I don't recall Tuon ever letting us know directly that it was a set up. But RJ left lots of clues!

"Stockholm Syndrome and brainwashing and Patty Hearst and all that" - Yes, that explains some of it, but the a'dam is also a Compulsion device!
John Massey
14. subwoofer
@Blocksmith- I think I mentioned this on Dragonmount, but the chances of Mat, Flinn, Setalle, and Ny all being in the same room together are remarkably slim. The idea being that Setalle is going to help Elayne in the understanding of Mat's medallion.

Edit- that being said, isn't it Nynaeve that says everything short of death can be healed?

Donna Harvey
15. snaggletoothedwoman
I too hope that Setalle can be healed properly. I thought something was up with her when she first met Elayne and Nyn. She really knew too much. I really like these chapters even though they are build up chapters. Mat is so much the hero, he dosen't think so and that is even more endearing. hmmmm
Tuon setting herself up for kidnapping? She is a bit devious, never thought of that before, time to ruminate...... Thank you Leigh great post..... a little lonely around here today.... must be the ToM stuff.......
j p
16. sps49
I like this kind of setup chapter; it keeps events more believable when they happen.

And yes, Ryma Galfrey exemplifies why the Seanchan suck. That could be someone's sister, daughter, or mother!
Ted Herman
17. WinespringBrother
I always wondered why Moghedien didn't get some random person to help her remove that annoying collar, then kill that person and escape. The only reason I can think of is that she was ordered to not try to escape by her Supervisor.

Also, I was under the impression that Moggy's collar worked differently than the regular corded ones in that she could move around and not become ill even if no one was wearing the bracelet (since Elayne didn't always wear it when she was supposed to) but I could be wrong about that.
Michael McCarthy
18. KilMichaelMcC
You may want to reconsider your declaration of "golliwogs" being an awesome word, considering the term's connotations in some places:


On the difference between stilled women and those who have been burned out: I could swear I recall reading somewhere ( maybe the Guide?) that stilled women can still feel the Source, though they can no longer touch it, while burned out women can't even feel it any more.
Birgit F
19. birgit
From what I recall, Mat really does have some basis for being annoyed that no one is impressed that he can open the a’dam. I’m not real clear on this, but my distinct impression is that as a matter of fact, no one else has ever figured out how to do it!

Eg did figure it out, but it didn't do her any good because her hands cramped up if she tried to open it.

So basically the thinking is as long as a woman is in a circle the adam cannot force her to leave that circle and thus be under the suldams influence.

Can one channeler be in two circles at once? Being in a circle seems to be similar to being a human angreal, and Rand and Asmo used the Choedan Kal at the same time, each controlling half the Power (And Rand and Aginor also shared the Power in the Eye).
Ron Garrison
22. Man-0-Manetheran
Winespringbrother: Actually there are several examples where the suldam will hang the bracelet on a hook and leave the room. The damane still has no free will.
Jonathan Levy
23. JonathanLevy
I think this post will not even make it to 100 comments.

Subwoofer - a challenge for you, if ever I saw one! :) :) :)
24. Lsana
For further hope that Setelle might be able to be healed, it is also worth pointing out that there are significant differences between Elayne's a'dam and the Seanchan a'dams. It's possible that if Setelle and Joline had been using Elayne's set, Joline could have skipped around just fine.

However, I don't think I would consider it a tragedy if Setelle was never healed, any more than I would consider it one if Suian and Leane stay at their current strength. Suian has spent about 8 books now learning that while channelling is a useful ability, it isn't all of her. She is a strong woman with or without magic. Setelle seems to have learned the same thing. Healing them might be nice, but doesn't seem like a huge deal.
25. sushisushi
ScoundrelTheToy@6 I suspect that the reason why none of our characters have tried that experiment (apart from the general revulsion at having anything to do with a'dam) is that there is a possibility of a negative reaction. We know that someone in a circle can't be brought into another circle, but the a'dam causes an involuntary circle through physical contact, which might not work the exact same way as a mentally constructed circle. Remember what happens when a man who can channel gets involved in an a'dam link? I don't see there being a big queue of volunteers for mucking around with a device which is known to have such possible side effects (apart from Elaine, who seems to be on the bench at the moment channeling-wise).
Jonathan Levy
26. JonathanLevy
WinespringBrother @ 17

I always wondered why Moghedien didn't get some random person to help her remove that annoying collar, then kill that person and escape.

Yeah, me too. I guess we have to say that she just couldn't figure out how to open it. Still, that is rather unconvincing, isn't it? She had plenty of time, and plenty of motivation. Plus, she could have easily fooled someone into helping her. "Oh pretty boy, you're so handsome, let's give you a little challenge..."

birgit @ 19

Can one channeler be in two circles at once?

I dunno, it feels wrong to me. If that was possible, why would they need men to extend a circle past 13? Just have one person in both circles, and have her take control of both circles. You'd think it would work, no?
John Massey
27. subwoofer
@JL- no worries- I am sooo wired today it is like I drank a pot of real- not the Starbuck- coffee. I am wired for stereo. And don't worry about Leigh's feelings. I am sure she is buzzing as Brandon gives a few people "the nod" in his acknowledgements.

Suian- she is learning the Aiel way. Sorilea isn't a strong channeler, but her will alone makes her deferred to among the Wise Ones. Something that will come into being with Egwene as she also sees the truth of this. Don't want to really get into it as it is talked about in New Spring and we are not there yet...

28. dsolo

That's a very good observation about the ad'am and a circle. That makes Eg's defense of the Tower with the novices that much more believable. If that is correct, then hopefully she'll figure it out in time to nullify that advantage for the Seanchen.

Another reason I love these rereads, is always learning something new. I had never picked up on Tuon's complicity in getting rid of Tylin. I don't think she was planning on the kidnapping, but I do think she wanted to have more opportunity to observe (aka stalk) Mat without interference from Suroth or Tylin.

re: Pura - worse than physical torture would be losing yourself. Of course, the Seanchen have convinced themselves that the damanes are simply tools, and not human (the first step in committing an atrocity is to convince yourself that it's warranted). In "The Hunger Games" one of the main protagonists states that he doesn't want his participation to change who he is, and in the final book, his worst fear is realized.
Justin Vickers
29. ScoundrelTheToy
What I understand about circles (and Egwene knows this about circles as well) is that the woman in control of the circle cannot be forced to relinquish control of that circle. The only way to forcibly sever said woman would be to knock her unconscious or sever her from the source. You could try to shield her but good luck with this.

I don't have the quotes, but Robert Jordan said circles can't go past 13 without a man. Then past 27 without another man or something and so on up to 72 iirc. But anyways, the point still stands that a woman already in a circle cannot be forced into another one ala the adam.

It leaves me wondering still why Egwene hasn't realized this kinda, nor Cadsuane. If Cadsuane knows the general principle that the adam forces a woman into a circle then the rest is easy to figure out. All Cadsuane has to do is get one of her cronies to form a circle with her than have a third crony slap an adam on her. Then Cadsuane the legend would have figured out how to defeat the adam, one can hope!
Cait Glasson
30. CaitieCat
I'm with #18, KilMichaelMcC: Golliwogs is not a made-up word, and has a deeply disturbing racist history.

From the Urban Dictionary.
Ted Herman
31. WinespringBrother
@ 22. Man-0-Manetheran
I was referring to Leigh's statement regarding Moggy not getting sick because she didn't move around while Siuan and Leane wore her bracelet, comparing that to when Elayne took off the bracelet when she didn't feel like suffering Moggy's pain. My thought is that Moggy was still mobile without retching all over the place (because that would have been very suspicious obviously and there has been no mention of that happening) since she had to move around to do her chores. So the cordless a'dam probably didn't inhibit movement by the damane while the bracelet was not worn. UNLIKE the regular a'dam, which does inhibit movement when the bracelet isn't worn.

@ 26. Jonathan Levy
I am assuming that the cordless a'dam prevents the damane from trying to remove the collar in the same way that the corded one does. This feature would not be an inconvenience in the same way that preventing mobility would. That is why Moggy would need a good (bad?) samaritan to assist her.

It's possible that the cordless a'dam has the same mobility features as the e've (male a'dam), though we don't have an example of a collared male channeler trying to walk around without someone wearing the bracelet.
John Mann
32. jcmnyu
@31 WinespringBrother

There are clearly differences between the a'dam and the modified one Elayne made with mobility being one glaring difference. When Egwene was wearing the a'dam in tGH, she couldn't move the bracelet from the peg it was hung on, but could move around the room only limited by the length of the leash. I think what happened in these chapters was Setalle was moving while the a'dam link wasn't completed so the a'dam was acting like the bracelet was being moved off the peg. I don't think it mattered that Joline was moving. Clearly Elayne's creating was made to work different;y since they were able to put the bracelet in a belt pouch and Moggy didn't fall to the ground vomiting.
Tina A
33. Tinaa
WinespringBrother @ 31 - I LOL'd at e've.
Ken Ray
34. Maclir
Re: Golliwogs.

There is an Australian term similar to that - "colliwobbles" - it even sounds similar.
Valentin M
35. ValMar
I enjoyed this chapters, and the following too.
The first time I became aware that Settale was an AS was on this re-reads (or rather the comments) IIRC. Clueless...

As for golliwog, someone used it puiblicly on TV not long ago in the UK and it caused a lot of offence. It is not a made-up word.
Rob Munnelly
36. RobMRobM
*crickets chirping*

Thought question - Jolene's warders are among the most irritating warders that we experience in all the WoT series. Is it that she attracted and bonded irritating people like herself? Or that the bond works both ways and they have grown to become irritating people like her. Discuss.
Thomas Keith
37. insectoid
Okay, so I've read the Prologue. *Squee*

*twitching for November*

As for these chapters... well, all I can think of to say at the moment is More Matty goodness, Yay! :)

WinespringBrother @31:

It's possible that the cordless a'dam has the same mobility features as the e've (male a'dam)...

ROFL!! That makes my day. xD

John Massey
38. subwoofer
@Rob- sorry, I folded like a carp and got the Prologue.

The thing about Mat that gets me is that he is so out of his element now. He says he likes gambling and dice an taverns, yet much of the time he spends in them gets him into trouble. Not just because a gholam is hunting him, but also because he either meets women that will get him in hot water, or he is already in hot water because he spends his time in taverns.

Give Mat a map, soldiers and a battle to fight and I think that is when he is as right as rain. Even Tuon comments something to the effect that a lion in a broom closet looks stupid, but a lion on the high plains- wow... or words to that effect. The awesomeness of Mat does not shine through for a long time because he is dealing with irritating ladies. It is not until his reunification with the Band that things feel right.

John Massey
39. subwoofer
Psst- Insectoid- the Prologue spoiler thread is thisaways...

Hugh Arai
40. HArai
RobMRobM@36: They've put up with her for so long each new thing triggers the one nerve they've got left?
Lannis .
41. Lannis
Re: Golliwogs. Wow. Never knew. This reread is so enlightening some days. :|

I'm going to take solace in the fact that RJ obviously didn't mean to use that word that way. From the context given, it's meant to mean something similar to "heebie-jeebies."

And to use another example of fabricated Randland language, I'll harken back to "tickle-heart" (thanks to Birgitte)... another term that RJ just throws in there to make the world of WoT a little more realistic. Sounds a little alien, but surprisingly understandable in context...
Thomas Keith
42. insectoid
Sub @39: Way ahead of you, 'woofer. ;)

The Answer...

Rob Munnelly
43. RobMRobM
Sub @38. Ego te absolve. Go forth and read the Word.
Captain Hammer
44. Randalator
M-O-M @13

Yes, that explains some of it, but the a'dam is also a Compulsion device

No, it's not. Unless you want to call figs and mice or thumbscrews and racks Compulsion devices. The a'dam is used as a tool for torture to break the damane but you can't use them to magically turn them into pretties Graendal style.

Otherwise you'd just slap a collar on the marath'damane, pull ye olde Compulsione and be done. That would have robbed us of some serious CMOA from Egwene and turned the whole Moghedien situation into a non-situation...

re: Healing Setalle Anan

I don't want her to be Healed. There should be some limits left, some potential consequences to reckless behavior, anything that keeps channelers from being virtually walking gods.

re: prologue and chapter 8

Haven't read them, don't intend to. I'm going to read the book from start to finish, in the correct order, with no significant waiting periods. Still a little tempted, though. So LALALALALA, I can't hear you, LALALALALA...!
John Massey
45. subwoofer
Give in!!! Alls I can say is that it is totally worth it. And now the month of pontificating can begin in earnest. And you won't burn for it either!

Ego te absolvo a peccatis tuis in nomine Patris et Filii et Spiritus Sancti. Amen.
-Thanks Rob:)

Valentin M
46. ValMar
I intend to read the whole book in one piece too. Certainly ain't starting with chapter 8. Plus I've heard enough already- Mat is better. My worry that Moiraine will be saved in a climax at the very end of the book remain, though. Will see when the time comes.
John Massey
47. subwoofer
We also learn how they put the caramel in the Caramilk bar!!!

Secrets I tells ya!

Barry T
48. blindillusion
Enjoyed as always, Leigh.

E've. *chuckle*
Thanks Wine. My keyboard now has a nice coating of my evening coffee.

Forward the Prologue!!! Well, not literally, of course....

Sweet!. 48.
Richard Boye
49. sarcastro
The thing about the a'dam, imho, is that the "pain activation circuit" is based entirely upon the perceptions of the collar wearer. Egwene couldn't *think* about using a pitcher as a weapon (throwing it at the sul'dam) any more than she could contemplate picking up the bracelet hanging on its peg. It's what she *thinks* about doing.

When Team Siuan is having fun with Elayne's cordless a'dam, passing the bracelet around, Moghedien isn't doing anything. Although the bracelet is moving around while Moghie sits stationary, it's not through any affirmative act on her part. That's why the SG could carry the bracelet around in their purses.

As far as I can tell, the reason why the linked pair of Joline and Setalle triggers the "pain activation circuit" is twofold.

a) Setalle is burned out - in that respect, she's a "normal" and thus for her to be wearing Joline's a'dam is to have the same effect as not being in a "forced link" at all (an a'dam being in use by a sul'dam). It's like leaving the bracelet on a peg or table. Or in Elayne's pocketbook.

b) Joline is actively thinking about trying to move the bracelet portion. She *knows* that Setalle can't channel and so when she thinks about trying to walk and trying to *escape* and the bracelet is moving along with her (without being attached to a 'leasher-holder,' that's the same as trying to move it herself - hence the agony.

Or something like that.
Scientist, Father
50. Silvertip
@44 Randalator

I'm with you re Setalle, although perhaps for a different reason. She has had a long time to settle into her new persona, and really seems to be whole and competent. I suspect if suddenly she reacquired channeling she would find herself neither fish nor fowl, caught between two worlds, whatever your favorite metaphor is. That's not an arc I'd like to see for a character I really like.


51. MasterAlThor

I have to say that I am quite upset with you. Thanks to you I have that light blasted song stuck in my head everytime I see that womans name. Yeah you know who I am talking about.

Thanks, a million.

Otherwise, I liked these chapters. Can't wait until Friday when I will be able to read the prologue and the reread. Yay me!

Captain Hammer
52. Randalator
Subwoofer @46

Give in!!! Alls I can say is that it is totally worth it. And now the
month of pontificating can begin in earnest. And you won't burn for it either!

Vade retro satana, numquam suade mihi vana. Sunt mala quae libas, ipse venena bibas.

For it is written: "Thou shalt not read thine WoT-book out of chronological order nor shalt thou read parts of it in advance. For that is the way of the wicked and the tyranny of evil men. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and corrupt my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee."

Renounce your wicked ways, sub. Before it is too late...!

sarcastro @49

The thing about the a'dam, imho, is that the "pain activation circuit" is based entirely upon the perceptions of the collar wearer. Egwene couldn't *think* about using a pitcher as a weapon (throwing it at the sul'dam) any more than she could contemplate picking up the bracelet hanging on its peg. It's what she *thinks* about doing.

Egwene could contemplate using a pitcher as a weapon just fine. She just couldn't pick it up as long as she did.

"Once I'd thought of it that way, I not only had to stop thinking about hitting her with it, I had to convince myself I would never, under any circumstances, hit her with it before I could touch it again."

(TGH, ch. 42)
Having to banish these thoughts is one way the sul'dam condition the damane.

The same goes for the bracelet, she could contemplate picking it up and moving it from it's peg. One of her first lessons was doing exactely that...unpleasantness ensued...

In the same chapter we're told that a damane cannot remove the bracelet from where a sul'dam last touched it. But I don't think Joline's thoughts that caused the reaction. The idea that she's thinking of herself as moving the bracelet when it's clearly Setalle moving it physically is just too unnatural a thought process to me. I think it's much more plausible that since the circle was not complete Setalle and Joline walking equaled moving an unused bracelet and triggered the "a'dam alarm".

Otherwise any damane could be rescued by just slipping her a roofie and moving her while she's unconscious. Or maybe even just presenting a "new sul'dam" who turns out to be a non-channeler after the rescue went down.
Julian Augustus
53. Alisonwonderland
I seem to recall a Setalle PoV later in this book or in the next when she thinks with some resignation that had been so looking forward to trying on the a'dam to see if it would work for her and she hadn't even felt anything through it.
john mullen
54. johntheirishmongol
I think these are chapters are fun. Mat is having fun plotting, all the separate elements are coming together. Some amazing long distance plotting here going back to Thom with his letter, putting together Bayle, leading to the Tower of Ghenji. In the middle of that is the meeting of the Daughter of the Nine Moons.

It's all good stuff

I don't remember being irritated here, mostly just anticipatory of all the fun to come.
John Massey
55. subwoofer
@St. BenedictRandalator- whaddaya mean "begone Satan?" I may have gots a tail, but there be no horns here. I is good and pure and walk on the enlightened path. Haven't you heard? All dogs go to heaven.

Barry T
56. blindillusion
Sub - I see you're picture and raise you a

Forward the Prologue!!! Well, not literally, of course....
=) >=)
Thomas Keith
57. insectoid
Sub @45: Um... my Babel fish doesn't do Latin... help? ;)

Sub, Blind: You guys are too funny. :)

Theresa Gray
58. Terez27
Ego te absolvo a peccatis tuis in nomine Patris et Filii et Spiritus Sancti. Amen.

Something about in the name of the father, the son, and the Holy Ghost. And absolution. I forgot what 'peccata' means. Looks like some basic Mass mumbojumbo.
Noneo Yourbusiness
59. Longtimefan
says we are mice,” Beslan said bitterly. “ ‘When wolf-hounds pass by,
mice lie quiet or get eaten,’ ” he quoted. “I don’t like being a mouse,

So does this mean that if you bring some figs along Beslan would be something of a threat?

It would have ended badly had he thought to be a threat. I cannot say the Seanchan are the kind of Empire I would want in my back yard but when you have to chose between being King under someone elses authority or being dead and the authority still proping up the king that follows I suspect he made the better if somewhat more difficult choice.

Speaking of difficult choices. To lace or not to lace ones collar and cuffs. Well as in all fashion it is a choice and it attracts who it attracts. If Mat wears the lace because he wants to it makes him no less Mat.

I see it more as an affectation of affection because while how he was persued may not have been very appropriate he developed a care for Tylin and in that it could just be that having a bit of lace reminds him of her and perhaps the nicer times they had together.

It was not all coat tearing and bedpost stabbing. Certainly they had some conversations wherein he learned of Tylin's personality and intellect. It is even possible her tragic death makes his attachment to such frivolous clothing choices a bit more endearing as he cannot release them from his wardrobe as much as he cannot release her from his mind.

Fictional as he may be. :)

Certain kinds of loss can create habitual coping in small and personal ways.

sometimes quirks are better than tears.
61. Freelancer
Ego = Me/I
Te = You
Absolvo = (obvious) absolve, or forgive
Peccatis = sins (I'm guessing shared root with peccadillo)

In the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit, amen.

And no, I know no Latin, but certain phrases are pretty easy to break down.

Samuel L. Randalator @Pulp Re-read...
You're kidding, right?

Golliwogs/golliwoggles/colliwobbles ~ Used as a verb form, exactly as Lannis surmised, synonymous with "heebie-jeebies". All derived from the golliwog, but not employed with anything like the PC-born racism attached to the original.
Jonathan Levy
62. JonathanLevy
Re: Mat's love of lace.

Savor the irony! A book ago people were frothing at the mouth because RJ put in lesbian couples but no male homosexuals. Now you have a male character taking a liking to pretty clothes to balance the female one (Nynaeve), and people are complaining that it's out of character.

Claire de Trafford
63. Booksnhorses
Any Mat chapter is a great chapter. Defin think that we have Tuon stalking Mat here by sending everyone away - fulfilling the 'marry you and carry you off' bit of her prophecy?

I see the burnt out / stilled bit as the difference between a bridge where a spar is missing and can be easily fixed, and a bridge that has totally collapsed - this may mean that Setalle can be repaired hopefully but it will take a lot more effort.

Re Mat and lace - 17th/18th C was full of lace for men and just think how many women Charles II had? Won't get into the whole Mat/Tylin thing again other than I personally feel that it is totally consensual.

@Rob - if you got a kitten I'm going to stalk future posts until I get one too!

@Freelance - think collywobbles has a different etymology from golliwogs - to do with intestines (collups).
Kurt Lorey
64. Shimrod
Terez27 and Freelancer had most of it.

Ego te absolvo a peccatis tuis in nomine Patris et Filii et Spiritus Sancti. Amen

I absolve you from your sins in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Amen.

It is the last part of the absolution liturgy recited by the clergy in the Catholic, Orthodox, and Lutheran churches.

Interesting about Setalle, Joline and the a'dam. The only thing that continues to bother me is that Setalle collapsed in pain as well. edit: corrected (thanks!) by @87 cheekyhamster.

If she were burned out, I would posit that it should not have affected her at all. Since she apparently wasn't stilled, perhaps there is still something we don't know about being burned out?
James Hogan
65. Sonofthunder
Wait, Setalle didn't collapse too, did she? I thought it was just Joline. *doesn't have book so can't check for sure...*

And I can sort of understand why Blaeric and Fen(or whatever their names are) are always a bit testy towards Mat. He does take quite a few liberties with Joline...and they're just being good warders and trying to keep her safe and protected from punks like Mat.
66. Ian B Manc
"Also, “golliwogs” is an awesome word. That is all."

Well, in the US yes. But....

In Britain the word Gollywog, is highly racist and it's use has lead to the daughter of Margaret Thatcher losing her TV presenter job. Of course, it works both ways, there are some perfectly acceptable words in the UK which would get me punched in the US.
Martin Banks
67. Mardy
Pura: Dude, that is seriously one of the creepiest things ever. No, it’s not creepy, it’s offensive.

Yeah agree on the offensive bit but for a different reason since even though its distastful people can be broken in this way. What I find offensive is the way those in the a'dam can't channel unless allowed - we know that those who can channel and are unable to channel get depressed and even suisidal when cut off- this reminds me of the way people (the word is used very losely in this case) addict people to drugs in the human trafficing cartels, people will do anything you want if you hold them by the drug they are dependent on. So I think that would add to her breaking as well possibly the greater part of it. The whole idea of this kind of practice is what i find offensive.

I can’t help it: men and lace should be extremely unmixy things, the end.

Got to disagree here, if Mat likes a bit of lace then fair enough and he doesn't stop wearing it post Tylin so he obviously does. At the end of the day while he may have intially been reluctant to wear it he does thereafter make the choice of his own free will to continue.

And I also want Setalle to be healed though i fear its wishful thinking :(

Thanks for the Post Leigh, this is my first post I have been playing catchup untill now be gentle
Tess Laird
68. thewindrose
I like chapter 29 Another Plan - it brings Setalle and Mat together, and in a way that promises that we will see more of Setalle. Like I said before - I really like Setalle. She seems like she would be a great Aes Sedai.
Do you think it is because she was one once, but then was burned out (probably on purpose - it seems getting burned out by 'angrel is a preferred Black Ajah method), and has survived all these years - even having a family and being involved in the world?

If it was possible for her to get Healed from this state, I think she would be an awesome Aes Sedai - so part of me would love to see it. But another part of me respects how she has been able to deal with this great loss -and still be effective!

Joline - hey MasterAlThor - let's belt out that ditty;)

James Jones
69. jamesedjones
68. thewindrose

As long as BWS doesn't create any character names that sound like "Roxanne" we'll be fine. :P
John Massey
70. subwoofer
I have no idea who that hussy in the red cape is. Nobody I know.

I could start ranting on the ups and downs that the female AS give Mat, but that also opens the door to the ups and downs Tuon gives Mat. The "Toy" thing gets real old real fast, if it wasn't prophecised for Mat, would he of really hung around for so long?

Elena Vaccaro
71. EarthandIce
Great post and discussion. The links to the gollywog was very enlightening. After reading these I thought about Heinlein's references in 'The Number of the Beast' where the characters wind up in a Victorian England setting. Social commentary or outright racism, mmmm.....

I take Mat's adopting lace as beginning his acceptance to the nobility even though he still claims not to be a lord. He is one now whether he wants to be or not. Same with Perrin. Rand has accepted his status now after denying it for so long.
I think Setella will meet up with Flinn, who will Heal her. His attitude toward Healing is right in line with Nyneave’s, everything short of Death should be Healed.
72. Hrothgordo

I think your question on an a’dam + circle is intriguing. And worth discussing, if only to try to hash out the “physics” of RJs world.

But I don’t think it is relevant as a strategic idea for the characters.

Because even if it prevented the a’dam from working it is effectively worthless as a proactive defense.

How would someone get close enough to a circle to place an a’dam on them? If the circle is active, then they can channel. If they can channel, then roasting the person would be a much more effective response.

I mean even if I was 99% sure that the circle would protect me, I would be 100% certain that balefiring the creep would get the job done. And even a 1% chance to spend the next 400 years as a slave is too high.

Which leaves the possible protection granted by the circle to cover those who get to you by subterfuge/treachery and those that are missed by the leader of the circle (because they are focused on something else).

Now could that happen? Sure. But in both cases the protection of the circle would be incidental.

As to these chapters:

I totally agreed that Tuon orchestrated Tylin’s trip, but certainly not to set up her own kidnapping. She is studying Mat and suddenly has more time to focus on it with Anath on sabbatical. So why not remove the distraction of Tylin?

As to ta’veren, I am totally on board with Jordan’s approach to “deus ex machina”. To me it is a brilliant way to handle these situations, and I think is better accepted by the audience because it brings problems as often as solves them. I actually believe that Jordan devised the “Bubbles of Evil” concept as a simple way to balance out the equation.

However, in this case it brings in so much baggage, most notably in the form of Egeanin, Joline and Bayle.

Egeanin I went from really admiring during the Tanchico storyline, but she just blows in this (and drags Bayle down with her). By the time she is named “Shipless” I am actively asking for a meteor to land on her.

Gawyn is the only character who even comes close to annoying me this much (and shockingly he also started as really cool). Again. METEOR.

Thank god for Setalle though.

I am not sure where I started grooving on her so much. I mean her introduction with the Kin was hardly endearing.

But somewhere in this area I start seeing her as part of Mat’s entourage, and eventually part of the Greek Chorus that Jordan uses to give us insight to what is going on in Mat’s head (since he lies to himself in his own POV most of the time).
Ted Herman
73. WinespringBrother
@ 33 Tinaa
@37 Insectoid
@48 blindillusion :D

Wish I could take credit for that...Imram (who has
sadly since joined the Heroes of the Horn) from Theoryland first coined that term a few years back. (Thanks, Tamyrlin, for looking that up!)

I still prefer using it though, e've is a lot more catchy not to mention less S&My than Domination Band... Having said that, it was certainly put to good use and definitely lived up to its name in Semirhage's one and only truly evil (on-screen) scene.
Noneo Yourbusiness
74. Longtimefan
@ 62 Johnathan Levy

While I may agree that there is a level of irony in having a character such as Mat change from toussled scoundrel to nattily dressed gentleman I cannot agree that the Irony is comparable to the debate over the inclusion (limited or lack thereof) of individuals who are interested in people of the same gender romanticaly.

I am trying to think of something light hearted and witty to take the sting out of any words I have typed so far but it is difficult to channel my inner Oscar Wilde in a polo shirt and slacks. :)

I realize I should probably not comment at all but forums are not like conversations. The words do not evaporate when the speaker leaves the conversation. Posts linger. They hang along the ever growing white wall leaving impressions of an opinion said in a moment. Maybe even a poor impression.

I do not think that you meant what you said in a malicious way or in a derrogatory way but there is an unfortunate commonality in current American culture (the one I deal with every day. I have no idea what other cultures are like in the way of clothing judgements these days) to judge people based on thier clothes in some rather superficial ways.

Having just erased a four paragraph argument for fashion and its purpose in society I will proceed on a different tack.

Mat (as a character) has one main interest, Mat. Everything else is adjucnt to that. Who will look after Mat? Mat. Who will save these people? Mat. Who will keep Mat's head off of a bloody pike while all these flaming nobles play "stab the pig" in a battle field he was just passing through? Mat.

Who will think a man could use a hint of lace to keep his coat in good standing with the ladies. Mat.

And why? Well oddly as I have been thinking about it further it may (fictionally) have to do with the simple fact that when he was free to dandle any woman who was willing on his knee he was unshaven, unbuttoned, uninhibited Mat. The Mat who ran away (and then ran right back if someone was in trouble).

Under Tylin he was in a "serious" relationship. As comedically played and unagreed to as it may have been it was a time in his life when there was no ability for him to turn his knee into a lovers lap for any lass with half a mind for his rougish pass.

Several things changed for Mat in this faux marriage with Tylin. He had to be faithful, he had to attend to her when she said not when he chose and he was responsible for nicer clothes that he had to keep in good condition.

It is possible that this new Mat is just trying to maintain certain expectations from his first serious relationship into his second and much more serious relationship as he interprets them.

If a bit of lace makes him presentable for a noble woman and his wife is the highest of all noble women it may serve as a reminder of his commitment as well as a reminder of a former time and in general may place him in a social position where people (women people especially) keep a bit more distance while still being welcoming from the deeply ingrained feudal system of the time.

It is not like they exchanged rings or bracelets or tattoos or something physical to remind eachother of the commitment they have made. They just said "hey, we are married!" and then went their separate ways.

Tuon has the silk roses (and the bow and the horse but they are more difficult to place under a pillow). Mat had to chose something of his own and in typical Mat fashion he does not really know why he did it but it is what he is going to do.

I am, of course, just speculating wildly on the actions of a fictional character. However, as I see it, Mat choses the lace becase he loves Tuon and misses Tylin and it is just the kind of clothes a man wears to be worthy of a woman in such a standing.
In an odd way the lace is not about being fancy; it means that Mat has matured.

Shocking as that may be it is what happens to people in general and young Heroes most specifically. :)
75. Paulw

Yes, she was an Aes Sedai before. She was burned out experimenting with ter'angreal, with no indication that it was forced by the Black Ajah or any such thing.

John Massey
76. subwoofer
@Hrothgordo- LOL! Are we talking a real meteor or something out of Joe Dirt?

@LTF- well thought out indeed, and if anyone gets up in arms, it is their issue to deal with. Lace may be a coming of age thing for Mat. In current culture, a saying is "dress for the job you want, not the job you have". Mat has made level attempts at denying he is a lord. Mat has also denied that he looks at other women and tries to seem a scoundrel. This may be the start of Mat accepting who he is and his position in life, a Lord and a Great Captain.

Tuon? At this point it is hard to say what she wants, only in later chapters in the next book we find that prophecy links her to Mat as well. I think both are trying to figure out why fate made this particular coupling.

Noneo Yourbusiness
77. Longtimefan
@76 Subwoofer,

A) it seems you have some powers us mere mortals have been denied with your knowing talk of what prophecy the later chapters of Towers of Midnight reveal.
B) Spoiler alert? :)

I will only tweek your nose slightly over this but this is not the thread to be all knowing and next booky in. :)
Sam Mickel
78. Samadai

I think Sub was referring to the next book in order, not ToM. :D
John Massey
79. subwoofer
@LTF- dude- the next book is CoT, one after is KoD. In one of those books Tuon says to the effect that she knew Mat was lying about his denial of seeing Hawkwing's face, Mat's ring scared the ever loving crap outta her and there was a third thing that escapes me but it all pointed to the fact that Tuon went along with Mat willingly because it was written in prophecy that Mat was the one whom she marries.

Outside of prophecy, I don't know if Tuon would give Mat the time of day, and only at the end in the stables does Mat actually start to see Tuon as... female and maybe attractive.

Edit- @LTF80- you have no t'oh here. We all have our moments, tragically, me more than most, but hey, such is life:)

Noneo Yourbusiness
80. Longtimefan
@76 and 78

I apologize if the "next book" was supposed to be Crossroads of Twilight. I have been to busy to do a re-read before the Towers of Midnight in November so if the prophecy link is from COT I cannot recall that right now.

Apparently it is my own nose upon which a tweeking has happened, indeed!
Ron Garrison
81. Man-0-Manetheran
subwoofer@76&79: "I think both are trying to figure out why fate made this particular coupling." I'd amend that to "I think WE ALL are trying to figure out why fate made this particular coupling."
Right on Tuon's reaction to the ring, Hawkwing, etc. Also in CoT, Mat says three times that "she is my wife' which freaks Egeanin out. As we discover later, all Tuon needs to do is repeat "he is my husband" thrice and it's a done deal.
Roger Powell
82. forkroot
Happy to oblige .. consider the following excerpt from the end of AMOL:

Rocks fall from the sky, everybody dies. Especially Gawyn, Leilwin Shipless, Suffa the damane, and Mutch (the stablehand from Baerlon.)
Tess Laird
84. thewindrose
forkroot - you really have it out for Mutch(I secretly think it may be a word thing like = mutch / much ;)

Another cool part of chapter 29 is Mat thinking about great generals!! From the book and Leigh's blog:
Great captains earned their reputation not just for laying brilliant plans, but for still being able to find victory after those plans began to fall apart. So when first light illumined the windows, he was still lying there, rolling the medallion across the back of his fingers and trying to think of what was going to go wrong.

Yes Mat, you do be a bloody great captain! A lion on the plain a tiger in the s - never mind:)

Barry T
85. blindillusion
Rocks fall from the sky, everybody dies. Especially Gawyn, Leilwin Shipless, Suffa the damane, and Mutch (the stablehand from Baerlon.)
Don't forget about Eyndel. Dude's got to go.
Bonnie Andrews
86. misfortuona
But Blind, I thought you liked Eyndel?

Mis-wondering where wind was going with that tiger thing
87. cheekyhamster
(shrug) I like Joline. Am I the only one?

Shimrod@64: Setalle didn't collapse. She just dropped to her knees to try to undo the collar around Joline's neck.

And Randalator@44: Agreed re Setalle/Martine not being Healed so that channelers wouldn't be too godlike. Of course, there's always forkroot... (the herb, not the poster!)

A nod from THE MAN! Well done, Leigh!
John Massey
88. subwoofer
I'll tell you were not to go- that cat/Avatar page. No good can come of that. Silly me.

& speaking of shtuff falling from the sky- why does Nesta Din cantremembertherestbutsheismistressofqueenseafolk get a pass? If ever somebody deserved to be smote with a flaming bag of poo...

Barry T
89. blindillusion
Nope. Eyndel's a jerk.

He made the list in the thought:


::Looks at::
Elaida “Suffa”
Karen Jacobs
90. KJacobs
Sub@88: That'll teach me! I very rarely check the other blogs, mainly because if I branch out past the WOT related ones I'd never get anything done . . . But seeing your name in the "recent comments", with a title about cats, I figured it just had to be something good......Wrong. Just. Wrong. Talk about a post going sideways!
91. Freelancer
mis-curiosity @86

Sack. I'm sure that's where thewind was going. Oh, and for sub, where you previously referred to the ridiculous thing being "a lion in a broom closet", it was actually:
A lion stuffed into a horse-stall might look like a peculiar joke...

blindillusion @89

In five weeks' time, you will be taking back the inclusion of Perrin and Gawyn on that list. This I foretell.
92. Freelancer
sub @88

Oh man, you should have turned left at Albuquerque. Or Haight-Ashbury. Or Sunset & Fairfax.
Sandy Brewer
93. ShaggyBella

Yep! I will add a few...

Anoth (I Know..before, when she was with the Do9M)
Linni (after Perrin's sleepover)
White Cloaks ...Except Galad & Co
Barry T
94. blindillusion
Tsk. I actually meant to take Perrin off the list. After my personal reread I've found I like Perrin more than I thought I did.

And yes, I agree that Perrin will come into his own in ToM.

Gawyn - Actually, I want to like Gawyn. I really do. But many of the people he claims are important in his life have told him doesn't have the whole story. He wants to believe rumor. I don't know, perhaps it makes it easy for him.

I hope Morgase slaps him...hard...the next time she sees him.
Jonathan Levy
95. JonathanLevy
Longtimefan @ 74

I was playfully teasing! I took no offense at anything you wrote, and I hope I gave none.

I'm not presuming to give a worthy reply to your discussion of Mat, but this did stand out in my mind:

Several things changed for Mat in this faux marriage with Tylin. He had to be faithful,

Mat spent quite a few evenings flirting (and later smooching) with Aludra. He did not see himself under any obligation to be faithful to Tylin.

Hrothgordo @ 72

I totally agreed that Tuon orchestrated Tylin’s trip, but certainly not to set up her own kidnapping. She is studying Mat and suddenly has more time to focus on it with Anath on sabbatical. So why not remove the distraction of Tylin?

I think you've got it right. I think Tylin is the main distraction, and she wants to get rid of her.

I also think a lot of people are guilty of an anachronism with Tuon, and are treating her as if she has positively identified Mat as the person in Lydia's foretelling from the moment she sees his ring. I don't think this is correct. I think she tentatively reaches this conclusion when he kidnaps her (she smiles) and finally accepts it when he lets her go (she accepts his proposal).

But at the moment she meets him, all she's seen is Mat's ring. This might possibly fulfill the first part of the prophecy (the fox who makes the ravens fly). If it's a fox. If those are ravens on the ring. Maybe they're doves? Unladen swallows? Would a prophecy refer to a 1-inch ring, and not the person's character (which she hasn't had time to gauge yet) or his actions?

There's another aspect to consider. Tuon is heir to the Seanchan empire. Mat, in her eyes, is a conquered queen's boy-toy, a man who apart from his good looks is utterly worthless. Furthermore, he is born free but behaves like a da'covale, and is utterly spineless around Tylin. He dresses outrageously, lets other women pinch him, and flirts with everything in a dress. For Tuon, it is utterly inconceivable that this should be her husband! And the coincidence of a ring is not going to be enough to change her mind. She needs more information.

So she's not willing to believe he might be her husband, but he's a mystery which she needs to figure out, and in that sense he engages her interest. She learns that there is more to him than meets the eye (the ashandrei he won't sell), and that he is a decent person (bringing sweets to a damane, or so she thinks), but only when he kidnaps her does she really think that it might be him - and then she smiles.
John Massey
96. subwoofer
@Free- yeah, yesterday was a hard day for me. I get a snout full of wasabi and wander into the middle of some kinda er... well, I just don't know what to call it, vaguely disguised as Cameron bashing.

Lucky me.

At least my sinuses are clear now.

Will be fine once my eyes stop watering.

Perhaps mentioning something to me before I cannon-ball into the dip bowl woulda been handy... Just sayin'.

John Massey
97. subwoofer
@JL- that was exactly what I was referring to in earlier posts about Tuon and Mat. Mat had no idea who Tuon was up until somebody mentions something in the stable. Tuon, exactly, for all intents and purposes, thinks Mat is a doof and has no idea that who he is playing at now, is not who Mat is. Tuon has no idea of Mat's army, his generalship, or why he has men loyal to him. Ring or no, that comes later.

It has always bugged me especially since Tuon comes from such a vastly different culture and way of doing things, but why does she accept Mat? I know it seems simple, but at this point I am thinking that the forces of ta'veren are at work here in this instance. Just different from the way Rand was trying to bend things.

98. alreadymadwithtuon
Ta'veren twisting generally depend on chance. And it looks like Mat's way of fumbling around works better than Rand trying to force the Pattern.
99. MasterAlThor

You naughty naughty girl. I don't do kareoke. I don't even know how to spell it. (oh I suppose that if you mamgaed to get me drunk I might do it, but I don't get drunk anymore)

and your comments about Mat. Very naughty indeed.


Sorry I wasn't here for you man. I would have backed you up. Dogs rule cats drool. Or something like that.

Hello to my WoT friends. Haven't been posting alot but that should change once the new book comes out. (sorry brigit, I don't know how you manage to keep track of post but....)

Tess Laird
100. thewindrose
::Looks around:: snag 1hunny!!!

Now I will put something relevent in:)
(Yes, Freelancer and MasterAlThor saw where I was going with that tiger;)

Please check out the Thirteenth Depository - Linda is starting a new line of articles on the minor characters - she has done Talmanes, Tarna and Gaul so far
(http://13depository.blogspot.com/ )(I am not liking the new way to link, it never works for me:(

James Hogan
101. Sonofthunder
Hey and some had doubt we'd get that high this post! That's right...proving doubters wrong since...er...2009. Or something like that.
Chris Chaplain
102. chaplainchris1
@18 & 30 & 35 re: golliwogs. I dunno - even in the Urban Dictionary link CaitieCat gives, the first definition seems to poke fun at the idea that it's a racist term. All I'll say is that it seems to have been an offensive term *in the UK* but that doesn't necessarily mean it was a racist term in any place that RJ lived. Having grown up in the same general region, I've never heard the word used as a racist one.

And I'm not even sure that I buy it not being made up. The fact that someone else made it up and used it one way doesn't preclude someone else from making it up and using it another way. Being from RJ's general region, it made me think of polliwogs, i.e. tadpoles, i.e. pre-frog frogs. The way polliwogs fill the water with their tiny creepy bodies and dart every which way is a good visual image, for me, of the way Mat is surrounded by tiny darting annoyances (and worse) that he can't get control of.

Put another way, Mat's expression is another way of saying that someone/thing gives you "the creeps." Calling someone a creep is certainly intended to be derogatory; but saying you have "the creeps" means something completely different. The same is possible for golliwogs.

Put yet a third way, I was unaware of any alternate racist meaning for the word; I too enjoyed it as a seemingly-made-up word; and I'm a little sorry to lose that. So...I reject losing it. RJ shows in his writing continually that he makes no distinction between people of whatever color - his characters are fully formed and eminently human, with good and bad traits equally represented by all phenotypes. There's no reason to believe that Jordan would casually use a term that he knew to racist; therefore I don't believe that it had such meaning for him; therefore I refuse to be disturbed by it.

@31 Winespring - calling the male a'dam an e've is brilliant!! I've never heard/seen that done before - nice!
John Massey
103. subwoofer
@M A T- thanks man, turns out it had nothing to do with cats, James Cameron, Avatar, or anything that would be good to comment on. In this particular case it was worth doing a retraction... and then some. But shucks, it would be nice if we had the power to delete our own posts or something.

Funny thing- I am not the only doof that blundered onto that site- there are a few other folks that are like"yeah, I like that movie" or "nope, not going to see it". Heh. don't feel so bad anymore.

Hmmmmm.... gives me an idea...

@Sonof101- no worries, as long as I live and breath, there will be inane blabbering. What can I say? It's what I do. I'm here all week. Be sure to tip your waiter.

Karen Jacobs
104. KJacobs
Sub: LMAO!! I saw the "gives me an idea", and just had to go back & check - Hysterical!
Noneo Yourbusiness
105. Longtimefan
@95 Johnathan Levy
I was not offended. Just being my generally oversensitive self. :)
If I do not make statements of outrage as one of the few visible gay voices on any comment page I frequent the gay mafia will take away my rainbow flag and half price coupons for Banana Republic.

You make a very good point that I had forgotten. Mat and Aludra were fairly flirty while he was trying to figure out the riddle she had set him to.

In my randomly structured argument's defence one could say that the two factors of the previous relationship between Mat and Aludra and the fact that Aludra was not Tylin's subject (maybe not even guest, was her workshop away from the palace? I think it was) may have placed her in a separate spot from the boundries of his relationship with Tylin. It is true that he was not 100 percent faithful but at the same time he was not engaged in the same physical activities with Aludra as he was with Tylin. (some but not all)

Again it was an odd arrangement and not by Mat's chosing but something about his mental state may have changed because of it.

His completely fictional and entirely fabricated mental state which can change at the whim of the author for any reason not available to the reader what so ever. :)

And as to dear sweetlilflower doubting that this comment thread will get to 100 posts, in the very first post even! I am shocked. :)
I know sweetlilflower has been here long enough to know these comment threads dont even start until 100.

Come to think of it has any of these comment threads ever been under 100? I cannot think of one. No matter what other WOT related wonderment may be happening there is always a large enough community of people who follow these posts to get in a considerable number of comments and observations and general bits of good humor and the occasional defensive outrage. Just like real life. Except in text form. With fake names. At random intervals.

Oddly when I look at the Tor Site it says there are 99 comments but as I am typing this there have been 103. I wonder if the comment countermatron is having an off day.
Jonathan Levy
106. JonathanLevy
subwoofer @ 97

It has always bugged me especially since Tuon comes from such a vastly different culture and way of doing things, but why does she accept Mat?

First I have to ask - at which point in time do you consider her to have 'accepted' Mat? If it's when she marries him, there are good reasons for her to do it - he's a leader of men, he's outwitted her best generals, he's kept his word to her, he can handle Aes Sedai, he can beat her at stones (sometimes), he's attracted to her and cares for her, and he's unquestionably the man prophesied to her.

If you're thinking of earlier times, I don't think she has accepted him at all. She keeps threatening to make him a cupbearer or a slave, and she's half-serious - only Lydia's prophecy stays her hand.

Let me put it another way. If back in Ebou Dar, Rogosh Eagle-Eye had gotten torn out of T'A'R with his pet Fox Who Likes To Chase Ravens, bundled her on his shoulder and let her go after he cut his hand (making it Red), Mat would have quickly found himself in a transparent robe and Tuon never would have given him a second glance.

Longtimefan @ 105
No problem, I'm being my generally insensitive self. :)

As for Mat's mental state, the only reason he didn't go the whole way with Aludra was that she resisted him firmly. As she said in KoD, "I will not be juggled". I think she did fall in love with him, but wasn't willing to settle for being just a lover. I think Mat broke her heart, poor girl.

I think Jordan explicitly makes it clear that Mat's mental state has changed, but perhaps you're thinking of a different change. Mat has a crisis of confidence - he expresses a worry at some point that Tylin has changed something about him, and from now on women will chase him and not the other way around.
Roger Powell
107. forkroot

Oddly when I look at the Tor Site it says there are 99 comments but as I am typing this there have been 103. I wonder if the comment countermatron is having an off day.

Torie probably had to balefire a few spam comments (e.g. there is no 20 or 21) - I think that accounts for the difference.
108. Freelancer
Yep, it seems a comment or two got Blarked. Yes, now it's a verb!

So I'm stuck here at the office waiting on a business call, and I'm scanning earlier comments...

M-o-M @81

Wondering why Mat and Tuon are coupled up? I've commented about this sort of thing at various points along the way. Every one of our Ta'veren Trio gets exactly what he never would have wished for in the romance department. Let's consider these personal ads the week prior to Winternight:

Perrin ~ Seeking a hard-nosed, dominating firecracker of a wife, the renegade daughter of a Saldaean general and cousin of the Queen. I need somebody who expects me to treat her exactly opposite of everything I've ever known, someone who simultaneously forces me into positions of authority and responsibility while treating me as completely incompetent. Into spanking if possible.

Mat ~ Looking for a girl about a year younger than me. Petite, boyishly slim, bald-headed. Must be a foreign noble with designs on conquest; disturbing ideals of property, personal rights, superstitions. Prefer one steeped in courtly intrigues, assassinations plots, and accompanied by a ninja-like personal bodyguard maid who will hate me. Nascent channeler a plus.

Rand ~ Seeking a very special girl for a very special relationship. Must be a warrior, a queen, and a prophet. Channeler highly favored, but not a deal-breaker. Should be ready, willing and able to ignore my authority and responsibility, instead seeing only a mud-footed sheepherder, a wetlander, a woolhead. Should excell at misunderstanding my actions and motives, quick to oppose any course of action I consider. Willing to entertain multiple parties if all requirements cannot be met in one woman, in which case acceptance of the shared me is a must.
Heidi Byrd
110. sweetlilflower
Well.... I kind of guessed that everyone was off having a spoilerific time on other WOT sites (cough subwoofer cough). I read THE WHOLE POST and somehow got the first comment. If it helps, I didn't even notice that I just happened to have really good timing in that I must have read it as soon as Leigh posted. So, I should get some kind of free pass, right?
@Free: nice, very nice :)
Tricia Irish
111. Tektonica

ROFLOL!! Very very good! You need to wait around the office more often!

And I missed the whole Blark fiasco....darn...I'm missing all the fun while vacating.....did catch elliesaurus' strange post. How does that happen?
Claire de Trafford
112. Booksnhorses
@Free 108

Awesome. And when you put it like that it almost makes Perrin and Faile sound like the most normal couple!
Leigh Butler
113. leighdb
Hey guys,

Due to various brands of madness, there will be no Re-read post today (Friday).

The next post will go up on Tuesday the 28th, and that post will have a note re: schedule changes in the upcoming weeks as well. Thanks, and have a great weekend.
Thomas Keith
114. insectoid
Free @108: LOL!! Nice one!

Leigh @113: Noooooooooooooooo! Hope all is well. Anyone want to start a new poll? ;)

James Hogan
115. Sonofthunder
@Free: Awesomeness. I agree with Claire...it seems sorta weird that Perrin/Faile sound like the most "normal"!! Good start to my morning...almost as good as my morning coffee.

And Leigh, Noooooooooooo! That's not true! That's impossible! Don't worry, I'm sure we'll find some way to keep ourselves occupied.
James Jones
116. jamesedjones
105 Longtimefan
...there is always a large enough community of people who follow these posts to get in a considerable number of comments and observations and general bits of good humor and the occasional defensive outrage. Just like real life. Except in text form. With fake names.

Birgit F
117. birgit
Come to think of it has any of these comment threads ever been under 100?

The only reread threads with less than 100 comments were some EotW posts. You can see the number of comments per post here:
http://www.tor.com/tags/Robert%20Jordan. Is Leigh not posting today to make sure this will be a long thread?
James Hogan
118. Sonofthunder
And I now am feeling itchy to start up some convos in those old threads. Can't be having sub-100 posts on our record!
119. AndrewB

What are you doing up at 2:14 am?

-- AndrewB
John Massey
120. subwoofer
@Leigh- I KNEW it! Curled up with the book this weekend, reading and rereading, taking notes, and basically leaving me us to our own devices? Can I come over? You won't even notice me reading over your shoulder. I will be very quiet. I'll bring a bundt cake.

Awwwww c'mon....

Or we could have a party, invite everyone over and we all take turns reading chapters aloud. I call dibs on the real salsa verde... the one not laced with wasabi...

John Massey
122. subwoofer
She was turning the page. It was a gentle reminder that some of us do not read as fast. Honest. Nothing but a friendly paw of "just a sec".

And I was very quiet. Not a peep.

diane heath
123. jadelollipop
Thinking how excited and antsy everyone is for Nov. 2nd due to the prologue and chapter 8. One must realize how much harder it is for Leigh and others who have already gotten ToM....it makes their wait for AMoL even longer. Maybe waiting til Nov 2nd the better deal..?
Roger Powell
124. forkroot
Nah - Leigh's wait will be about the same as ours.

Don't forget that she will certainly get an advance copy of AMoL, whereupon she will do another teasing non-spoiler review that will have us frothing at the mouth.
Kerwin Miller
125. tamyrlink
subwoofer @121&123 and blindillusion @122

slayed me lmao
Captain Hammer
126. Randalator
No new re-read post? Nooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!
127. Freelancer
Oh yes, I cannot wait for Nov 2. So excited. The prospects, the possibilities, the chance to watch good triumph over evil, of a change for the better...

Oh, there's a book release too?
128. jc1
With respect to the prologue, I'll mention that I read it for free last night. Barnes and Noble has Nooks out for people to try, and you can read anything they sell, for free while in the store. I discovered this last night, so went ahead and read the profile.

Tess Laird
129. thewindrose
Freelancer at 127 - You sir, are most assuredly in fantasy land if you think elections = The prospects, the possibilities, the chance to watch good triumph over evil, of a change for the better...

And of course I am joking in the same vein as Freelancer if any feel the need to smite me down!

Bonnie Andrews
130. misfortuona
Some of us on Gabbly were treated to a special by-request Samadai Story.
We enjoyed it very much and decided that since Leigh is again MIA that we should share it with you all.

Okay, lets see......... a story.......

Rand let the gateway close behind him, but maintained his connection to Saidin. Bashere had told him he could find Saldean fire peaches high in the hills in the last days of summer, and he had promised Min that he would find some for her this morning before his meeting with the Seanchan ambassador

He remembered the cute look on her face as he woke up to a little fist in the ribs, the way her belly kept her from getting too close, and the stray wisps of hair that fell over her eyes.
"Hey sheepherder, I want some Saldean fire peaches, get me some."
He told her he would find some, and after several hours of no luck at the market, he had decided to travel to Saldea to talk to Bashere

Deira Bashere was still cool to him, but Davram laughed out loud when Rand told him what he was looking for
Bashere had mentioned that if any were left they would be high in the mountains, and so here he was.

Rand traveled short little hops around the mountains, searching for the peaches, 5 years ago this had all been blight, but now the blight was gone and foliage was growing faster than anyone had thought it would.
As he opened a gateway to the top of the next mountain he spied what he was looking for in a little dale about halfway up the other side.

Altering his gateway he stepped through, and came out standing by the tree. Reaching up to gather in some of the ripe peaches, he felt a whisper of wind on his cheek, and a solitary beam of sunshine lit up the tree. It was as if the tree was on fire, the leaves were little wisps of flame, and the trunk was shiny dances of light.
Rand marveled in the image as he collected the fruit for Min. He would draw this for her when he was home

It was almost sundown by the time he returned to the palace, gating into the traveling room
He walked down the hall to his and Min’s room, as he got closer he noticed Nynaeve and Lan standing there.

Running the last few steps to the door he gazed in and saw Min lying on the bed, their son held gently in her arms,
"Here Sheepherder, your son Tam Janduin Al'thor."
Rand didn't remember how but he was by her side in an instant, kissing her, holding his newest son in his arms
As he marveled again at one of his children, Elayne and the twins came in, along with Aviendha just showing signs of the life growing within.
Rand felt more blessed than ever before.

The end. (for now)

Mis-sharing on behalf of Sam, Scissorrunner, and Branwin.

Yes we know it requires some major suspension of what most of us expect to happen in the last books, but we like this ending.
Karen Jacobs
131. KJacobs
Mis@130: Thank you Thank you Thank you for sharing this with the class :) Made my afternoon! My compliments to the collaborators!
Tina A
132. Tinaa
~grumbles~ soddinggabblynotworkingandImissoutagain...

Thank you Mis, for sharing, and well done Sam.
133. Freelancer
thewindrose @129

But that is precisely what they are always supposed to be, in a government designed to be of the people, by the people, and for the people. If it is not that, the only fault is not with the design, nor even with those in office, but with the citizens who abdicate their shared duty.

I have two app0intments on that day. To buy a book, and to vote. The book comes in a distant second.

Hey Sam & Maidens of the Gabbly. Thanks for that taste.
John Massey
134. subwoofer
Buy the book first, then you have something to read while waiting in line to vote...

Besides, voting takes but a second if you have done the initial legwork of candidate platforms. Rest is duck soup.

Or... jump in line, there must be special allowances made for seniors:)
::flee flee flee for your lives!!!::

Rob Munnelly
135. RobMRobM
@134 - Do I remember correctly that this is a special season for landmark birthdays for both Free and Wet?
136. pro_star
Leah, I hope things are alright with you!

Woofer...yum....that looks delish!

Countdown to November 2nd...
John Massey
137. subwoofer
@Rob- dunno- after a certain point it is moot tho'.

Just another ring on the tree.

Kat Blom
138. pro_star
Okay, let's try this again, spelling a go...I hope...

LEIGH, I hope things are okay, (and sorry I fail at spelling!)

Setelle is kickin butt and taking name without AS ability...I am almost wondering how she would be WITH the power, would she be as headstrong as SWWNBN?
139. Hrothgordo
Well the design was more about checks and balances and ability to transfer power peacefully (read: non-tyranny) than any belief in the common people. There is a reason that it they crafted in a republic and not a true democracy.

In regards to this election I don’t know how anyone can be optimistic. Republican or Democratic the options available basically stink.

Overall, I have always believed that some of the best governance is accomplished through opposing President and Congress. It tends to force compromise and negate radical left/right views.

The concepts of the Republican party and even the Tea Party have valid points but their voice (and their candidates) are just bad. I mean, the deficit is a huge issue but you cannot realistically make that the basis of your concerns and yet be unwilling to discuss tax increases and reduced defense spending.

Look at Newt Gingrich, a former “idea” guy and someone who (although antagonistic) worked with Bill Clinton to produce a lot of good legislation. The current conservative environment has turned him into lunatic I wouldn’t trust to make decisions on which laundry detergent to buy nevermind help running our country.

Leaving our other option the tepid and lackluster Democratic party. Although their nutjob radicals lack the vocal power of the right’s, they simply have no ability to translate even their good ideas into good legislation.

I although I respect the right to vote, and will exercise it come November 2nd. But it hardly seems like anyone deserves my vote right now.

I am getting off my soapbox now . . . and I might need a drink.
Theresa Gray
140. Terez27
ahhhhhhhh, hurry up someone talk about gun control again!
Thomas Keith
141. insectoid
Sub @96: Free can be naughty sometimes... :)

Sub @120/122 & Blind @121: ROFL!!

Mis-story @130: Oooh, story! ::reads:: Great job, Sam!! ::applauds::

Terez @140: ::poke::

John Massey
144. subwoofer
Snap! Right!

Really good fit for the name then.

Rob Munnelly
145. RobMRobM
@137 - except you qualify for cheaper movie tickets and dinner specials, and tell kids to get off of their lawns.
Barry T
146. blindillusion
Ahem: Gun Control -

Treat every weapon as if it is loaded.
Handle every weapon with care.
Identify the target before you fire.Never point the muzzle at anything you don't intend to shoot.
Keep the weapon on safe, and your finger off the trigger, until you intend to fire.

But, in keeping with Torie's point that we keep subject matter centralized to WoT:

Sword Control:

Treat every sword as if it will cut you just as quickly as another.
Handle every sword with care.
Identify the target before you begin the forms.
Never point the blade at anything you don't intend to fight.
Keep the weapon in its sheath, and your hand off the hilt, until you intend to draw.
Alice Arneson
147. Wetlandernw
RobM @135 - Speaking only for myself, you remember correctly. I keep meaning to put some pictures up, but life's been very busy. I had a grand celebration, however, starting with Brandon wishing me a happy birthday at the Seattle signing (thanks to info from Freelancer and Samadai), writing "Happy Birthday" in my Way of Kings and slipping Code 17 into my book when I wasn't looking. This resulted, via facebook & theoryland, into effectively celebrating my birthday with WoT friends around the world. On the actual day of, my son's 2nd grade class surprised me with a birthday party, which was incredibly cute. Finally, my husband collaborated with some other folks and turned our Heidelfest into a gigantic birthday party with loads of chocolate cake for all. Many, many other fun things, too, but those were the highlights.

What can I say? You can only claim the half-century once, so you might as well enjoy it! Thanks to all who celebrated with me. And once again, a special thanks to Lannis, who suggested that I go check my book the morning after the signing. :)
148. Tony B.
Regarding your comment about men and lace. I think there are a bunch of Johnny Depp fans that will disagree with you on that one, LOL!
Alice Arneson
149. Wetlandernw
Okay, now for something (loosely) WoT-related. I've actually enjoyed these chapters, but I've been busy, so by the time I actually get a chance to catch up, everything has been said that was really worth saying. Or at least, everything my overtaxed mind could think of to say. I have, however, been catching up with the posts and the comments whenever possible, even if I haven't commented.

I've tremendously enjoyed reading the prologue and Leigh's advance review; I find myself in the odd situation of really having not much to say about them, though. At this point, I'm not all that interested in speculation, because I want to just read the real thing instead of trying to second-guess it. Oddly enough, this even affected the questions I chose to ask Brandon at the signing; almost everything related to TGS/TofM was stricken from my list because I don't want sneak peeks at this stage. I want to wait and read it with all the lead-ins and descriptions and building excitement that I know will be in the book.

(Oh, I'm also valiantly trying to get through WoK in less than a month, so my attention is divided. Man, that book is big!! I may have done my back permanent damage, carrying it along to school every day to read at lunchtime. Brandon has taken to borrowing a fan's book to read from at the signings - he says "I've read it twelve times already, I don't need to carry it around with me." Yeah, and leaving it behind will either allow him to carry something else, or just lighten his luggage!)

Anyway, my thanks to those who have checked up on me. I'm here, just at a very busy season of life. I've really been enjoying all the comments and discussion (except the politics and gun control, which I mostly skipped over) and I'm really glad to count each of you as my friends. And hey, how cool is it to read a book dedication where you actually "know" some of those people?! And all because we're WoT-crazy together.

One more thing: Will be posting pictures soon, but I've got a bunch of WoT and WoK stuff for any who want it. Bumper stickers, bookmarks, wristbands and postcards. Brandon asked me to see what I could do about getting it to people who would enjoy it. I'll put some pix in my profile and then give you a way to contact me if you want anything.

But I'm NOT giving away my "Code 17" bumper sticker. Don't even think about it.
Sandy Brewer
150. ShaggyBella
RE: Mat and Tuon..The pattern is trying to fulfill the Dragon Prophecies....

When Banner-General Tylee Khirgan meets Perrin KOD Ch 4:
"I'm glad he did not name you the Wolf King my Lord....I'd think Tarmon Gai'don was on us. You know the Prophecies of the Dragon? 'When the Wolf King carries the hammer, thus are the final days known. 'When the Fox marries the Raven, and the trumpets of battle are blown' I never understood that second line myself".....
Perrins thoughts:
....The Wolf King? Hopper would come as near to laughing as a wolf could over that.....Still he felt a chill. He had not realized that he was mentioned in the Prophecies. And his hammer was a harbringer of the Last Battle? But nothing mattered except Faile...yada yada yada.

So Tylee might put it together when she meets Mat at his & Tuon's wedding reception.
151. Freelancer
Ooh ooh! Say, Wetlandernw, you've got some of those nifty Way of Kings wrist bands? I missed those at the San Diego event, guess I wasn't paying attention. But no dun ones now, only fully infused, ok?
Alice Arneson
152. Wetlandernw
Well, I won't guarantee it'll come out of the package infused, but in San Diego it shouldn't take much. :) Even in Seattle they work pretty well.
Heidi Byrd
153. sweetlilflower
So, I just tried to post on the Prediction Thread, and I crashed Internet Explorer. I have high-speed cable, but that thread has done me in. It is kind of a cute comment, so I'm going to post it here :)

I was flipping through one of my sister's D&D books, and I read some interesting things. I think RJ must have pulled liberally from the names sections. But, what I found most interesting were descriptions of three of the Gods and they sounded A LOT like our three heroes. So, I was thinking, wouldn't it be absolutely horrible if the last line of AMoL was, "Then everyone put down their dice. They had all reached the end of their Epic Quest and it was time to let their players live on in immortality." hahahahahahahahaha
So, I don't want to lose my geek cred, but I will admit that I have never played D&D. Just bear that in mind if my comment doesn't really make sense to actual players.

PS: I guess I am done with the Prediction Thread anyway. Some little jerk annoying brat, dang it! I can't find a nice way to describe this punk kid with no manners! Anyway, there is an extremely annoying poster there and I don't even WANT to read anything he has to say. Do you suppose he even realizes how utterly abnoxious he is?
154. Freelancer

What a terrible, Dallas-esque thought. I shudder. Jordan wouldn't do that to us. And I've never owned a D20 myself. My geekness lies in another direction.

Oh, and about that young gentleman attempting to make an impression on the ToM Predictions Thread, he had been delivered numerous mild warning shots. It remains to be seen if he should require a full salvo. I wonder if forkroot is sensing some deja vu from last year in this regard. It's alright, they come, they annoy, they go. If they are strong enough, and possessed of any measurable wisdom, they adjust and learn to belong. If not, c'est la vie.
Thomas Keith
155. insectoid
Free @151: Wrist bands infused with... what? ::puzzled::

Lilflower @153: I haven't been keeping up with the Prediction Thread since about comment 90; I guess it's just one too many threads for me to juggle. (If anyone wants to see someone juggle threads let me know!) Sorry to hear there's a troublemaker over there, though I'm not too surprised to hear that he's younger than me... :)

Free @154: I never D&D'd either. I'm more on the computer-tech-wizard end of geekdom. (Is that a word?)

156. Freelancer

The clues are there, if they don't mean anything, then telling would be spoiling.

Thread-juggling? That's old hat. I've been active on around three dozen forums of varying interests for quite some time. And no, I'm not known by the same nick in more than a few. Yes, I'm a bit paranoid about my privacy, and about my security. I never use a password in more than one place, and I never let a browser save them. How's that for geekness?
Thomas Keith
157. insectoid
Free @156: Well, the word infused made me think they're more than just wrist bands, which for some reason made me think of Space Ghost's power bands. (How's that for geekness?)

Thread, username, and password-juggling... I'm impressed. I wouldn't call that geekness so much as common sense. I only save two passwords most of the time, and then only on my own computer. The rest are stashed between my ears somewhere. (They would look like gibberish to someone else, anyway.)

Time for the night owls to rest...

Rob Munnelly
158. RobMRobM
Wet - happy big b'day! (Not hard for me to remember since I'm just over a year behind you (and Free)). Hope life settles down for you.

Ours is busy but good - my son is in his new private school and that is going well (fingers crossed) and my daughter seems to be successfully adjusting to our town's very large middle school, plus four days/week of ballet, plus being in the middle school musical (as a villager in Fiddler on the Roof). I'm busy at work but that's nothing new.

Jonathan Levy
159. JonathanLevy
sweetlilflower @ 153
Freelancer @ 154
The star that burns brightest oft burns shortest. Who comes to share wisdom will find friends; who goes hunting for compliments often finds out the truth. As for us, Patience is a virtue. All things come to those who wait - and some guests are most welcome when they leave.

Also, the devil you know a bird in the hand half a loaf who has many friends etc. etc. I think I've said enough. :)

P.S. What happened last year?
160. Nazgul
RE: Tuon planned her own kidnapping.

I just want to say that I don’t subscribe to this theory. It is not that I don’t like it because truly, it doesn’t really matter to me. It simply doesn’t ring true to me. So feel free to counter my arguments.

I want to point out some things about Tuon. The daughter of the nine moons has two distinct feelings about my favorite hero. First is that she doubts that the scoundrel mat could be the one foretold to marry her, which scares her a little bit, not because she was afraid that shell get beaten up when she’s married but because she may not be able to marry for the good of the empire. The second one is that she wants mat from the moment she saw him. For a normal gal wanting someone would mean being in love, wanting to date etc. But for Tuon it is simply a matter of taking possession. Therefore she will have mat but the matter of the prophecy keeps her in check. Perhaps she thinks that taking Mat dacovale would shoot down the prophecy for good.

So, she could not have been planning her own kidnapping because that would tantamount to Tuon that she was already convinced that Mat is the one marrying her (which she did eventually but came later in the story). Tuon was never in doubt that she likes Mat but has always shown reservation in the question whether Mat truly was the one foretold.

The more likely explanation was that Tuon probably became angry when she realized that Mat was planning to go away and yet she couldn’t find any clue that Mat was planning to take her with him, which would be a disaster to her prophecy-wise. Therefore she had machinations on Mat, and wants Tylin out of the way, by showering her with favors and making her busy with other matters. But on that fateful night she found him already trying to make a run. Maybe she thought “you may or may not be the prophecy but you are not getting away from me” and finally decided to take Mat dacovale instead. Of course, even though it wasn’t what she intended the night still turned out very good in Tuon’s opinion.
Alice Arneson
161. Wetlandernw
Jonathan Levy @159 - Last year, when TGS came out, Tor gave us a shiny new "Open Spoiler Thread" where we could freely discuss TGS while keeping the re-read thread free of spoilers, for those who wanted to stay with the re-read but wouldn't be getting the book right away. Very considerate of Tor, we thought. Naturally, since it was open to all, a lot of new people jumped in. Some of them have stayed and become integral members of the re-read and WoT-on-Tor community.

However... there were several who jumped in with both know-it-all feet, insisting that they were right and everyone else was an idiot. Some actually had valid comments but couldn't handle the occasional correction. Some had virtually nothing to say but got argumentative and defensive anyway. And many of them jumped in and rambled in long, nearly-indecipherable posts full of horrible grammar, punctuation and spelling errors. Eventually, forkroot gently pointed out that they were free to say what they wished, but would be more likely to be read and considered if they took a few minutes to observe the basic rules of the written language. Needless to say, several of them took offense - when you're 18 and you know it all, no one should have the gall to point out your errors, right? (No, not all of them were 18, but most of them appeared to be within a few years of that.)

Basically, the members-of-long-standing got tired of having rude, obnoxious and nearly-illiterate posts all over, and made a few pointed remarks about the behavior we as a group generally hold to and expect. We (as a group) were then accused of being know-it-alls... which was really quite funny, all things considered. Anyway, most of them were pretty short-lived as participants. One or two may have taken it to heart and stuck around for a while; at least one continued to hang around for a while and defend her right to be right about everything even though she had nothing to say. Eventually, they all either decided to go grey and become actual contributors, or just went away. There were several who were, indeed, most appreciated in their leaving.

Looking back, it's really rather funny. And let me tell you, if you really beg for it enough, Freelancer can give an amazing smack-down. I still laugh when I remember that prize-winner!

Which reminds me... I expect we'd better be ready for another onslaught when the TofM spoiler thread is opened. Do you suppose we should ask Torie to put a note in the intro that observing the basic rules of written English would be appreciated?
162. Freelancer

Thank you for summarizing all of that. I was going to, but it seems it was your turn. (That's just the way she and I roll. Her turn, my turn, TAG, you're it!) Sometimes, it is necessary to LOOSE the righteous wrath, lest we LOSE control of the dialogue. Eh, forkroot?

As for the smack-down, it wasn't that big a deal. It is very satisfying, though, when the target does all the work of tying the knot, throwing the rope over the limb, and putting their own head in the noose. Besides, any written blast I may have fired is nothing compared to Torie's awesome balefiring of all vowels in several comments. Epic moderator hammer, FTW!

And yes, it seems that recent events have provided a, what, warning, reminder(?) that history may well repeat itself regarding events in the forums here last year. Given that Brandon has now begun his own epic saga (and begun it outstandingly in my view), we will see almost as much crossover coming FROM Brandon's rapidly growing fanbase as previously moved TO it from Jordan's. So within the ToM open spoiler thread which Leigh has promised, there will surely be those who haven't read the entire series, those who skimmed it once over some long years ago, and those who have projected their own conclusions and presumptions into their memory of what they read. And we have each of us been in some or all of those categories in regards one story or another.

Perhaps, along with Wetlandernw's very thoughtful suggestion to lead the thread with such an intro (perhaps require a check-box agreeing to Terms and Conditions, I know we all love those!) it would be wise to craft an all-purpose linkage page for the most respected of WoT information repositories, to help along those who aren't as steeped in the lore.

It is more true to me every day, that only the wise person recognizes the depth of their ignorance. Only the most knowledgeable can grasp the scope of what they haven't yet perceived.
John Massey
163. subwoofer
@Free- i dunno what it is I am suppose to preceive;)

@Nazgul- that, is a very interesting idea. I initally supposed Tuon was making those "cup-bearer" comments to get under Mat's skin and had no concept of enculturation. I had not considered the idea that she actually was pursuing Mat, in her own way. Whether by pruchasing him and having him close as her "Toy" or recognizing him as a man and a good one to marry in the interests of the Empire. I must ponder this one some more.

@Wet- Happy Birthday.

It is a pleasure to get to know you on this thread:)

Valentin M
164. ValMar
Happy Birthday Wetlander! We nearly share one.
Wetlander and Free @ 161,162
I agree, in general, with your sentiments there. Given what we are used to in this forum, it can be jarring when someone behaves like some of the people you refer to.

But we have to be careful not to appear too elitist or exclusive. The overall standards to which we adhere are very difficult to match and we should allow for those less considerate and thoughtful, to an extent.
The pomposity of the last sentense is tongue in cheek, but the point is valid, I think.
John Massey
165. subwoofer
Alls I have to say about new folk commenting here can be summed up by:

But Jesus stooped down, and with His finger wrote on the ground, as though He heard them not. So when they continued asking Him, He lifted up Himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. And again He stooped down, and wrote on the ground."

I am not saying that we should not offer helpful guidance as necessary, however, at one point, I was new here. RFife and a couple of others told me of the wonders of edit, suggested that I press "enter" a few times so my text is not one huge honking paragraph, showed me bbcode, and basically said, "hey, you are new, so here is how we conduct ourselves here." It was more helpful than a "shape up or ship out" speech. They gave me a chance. And I am still here.

Ground rules and structure is helpful, after all we are an open community, no fees, no special hand-shakes or decoder rings/passwords. If someone is being "noobish" well, as some have already done, help them out and give them a chance before the name-calling and smoting is warranted.

Thomas Keith
166. insectoid
Wetlander: Happy belated b'day!

Free @162:
And yes, it seems that recent events have provided a, what, warning, reminder(?) that history may well repeat itself...

But of course... this is the Wheel of Time! To paraphrase just a little, tongue-in-cheek:

The Wheel of Time turns, and the months come and go, leaving threads that become Legen... wait for it... DARY. Some threads fade to myth, but not all threads are forgotten when the month that gave them birth comes again. In one year, called October by some, a month not quite here, a month long past, thewindrose commented on an Advance Review thread. Thewindrose was not the beginning. There are neither beginnings nor endings to the turning of the Wheel of Time. But it was a beginning.

Pardon my butchery, RJ. ::blushes::

Sub @165: I want a decoder ring... :p

167. Freelancer
Referring to my own comment: "And we have each of us been in some or all of those categories in regards one story or another." I have no wish to suppress the thoughts or ideas of others, nor to make them feel less than welcome. First, because I have no authority here, so it is certainly not my place. Torie bears the hammer, and I am nobody to gainsay her use of same. Second, I am fully aware of how easily someone transitions from n00b to elitist when given the chance, and I don't care to be guilty of that. There remain many here who could still rightfully treat me the same way relative to their own seniority of depth of research into the WoT-verse. Again, I am nobody to presume.

All of that said, the community here, if that's the approriate term for the ersatz family we have become, has its own spirit, if you will. And there is nothing wrong that. As long as we don't call it George, and hug it and squeeze it...
Jonathan Levy
168. JonathanLevy
Wetlandernw @ 161
Freelancer @ 162
Thank you for taking the trouble to summarize this ancient history for me. I don't remember exactly at which point I joined the re-read, but I did go back to read all the old posts - but reading all the comments was a bit too much. I don't think I read the open spoiler thread, because I got the book a bit later than most people. But it's always nice to get a little historical perspective from Those Who Were There.

I must confess the tantalizing hints about Freelancer's Infamous SmackDown have piqued my curiosity. I must go and hunt that one down - is it on the TGS Open Spoiler thread? (Hope you don't mind, Freelancer.)

ValMar @ 164
subwoofer @ 165
Of course, I agree completely with your sentiments. Righteous Wrath must be tempered with patience and indulgence. We were all 15 once, weren't we? Though not all 15's are created equal...

As for biblical quotations, what came to my mind was 2 Samuel 16:

And when king David came to Bahurim, behold, there came out thence a man of the family of the house of Saul, whose name was Shimei, the son of Gera; he came out, and kept on cursing as he came. And he cast stones at David, and at all the servants of king David; and all the people and all the mighty men were on his right hand and on his left...
Then said Abishai the son of Zeruiah unto the king: 'Why should this dead dog curse my lord the king? let me go over, I pray thee, and take off his head.' ...
And David said to Abishai, and to all his servants: 'Behold, my son, who came forth of my body, seeketh my life; how much more this Benjamite now? let him alone, and let him curse...
It may be that the LORD will look on my affliction, and that the LORD will requite me good for his cursing of me this day.'
So David and his men went by the way; and Shimei went along on the hill-side over against him, and cursed as he went, and threw stones at him, and cast dust.

BTW, in Chapter 19 Shimei has to eat some humble pie in order to stay with the re-read, at least until 1 Kings 2 when he loses his head... this time permanently :).
Thomas Keith
169. insectoid
JL @168: Even if you could load the original Open Spoiler Thread (which is very unlikely), it'd be rather hard to find; Freelancer was pretty prolific on that thread as I recall. ;)

EDIT: Oooh... the square of 13! 13x13 FTW! ::ducks::

Valentin M
170. ValMar
Darn it... guys could you keep your posts simpler, it's Saturday night already. Even insectoid threw in a whole paragraph!

I think Sub summed it up pretty nicely. Fortunately I've heard the story of Jusus/sin/stones so no brain power wasted there. Still pondering on Freelancer's thoughts. I think he is trying to assure us/me that he is not an autocrat :)
Alice Arneson
171. Wetlandernw
And lest we miss it...

Happy Birthday, Freelancer!!

I'd start singing, but my kids would just think I'm being silly again.
Barry T
173. blindillusion
Wait. It's Free's birthday?

And a Very Merry Birthday to you, sir.

And a word of caution:
174. Worldnewsbulletin
This just in:

It is rumored that famous Australian playboy GageCreedLives will be landing in NYC tomorrow Sept 26th. While GCL is said to be ‘mostly’ harmless, Australian authorities warn that North American women be on guard against his finely tuned wit and devilish charm.

In other news half of the Australian police force is taking a well earned two month vacation during what is expected to be a quiet period for the country.
Valentin M
175. ValMar
This is turning into a happy birthday thread. Anyway,

Happy Birthday Free!
Valentin M
176. ValMar
Tor.com went wonky and I had a double post. The powers that be feel free to delete this post.
Alice Arneson
177. Wetlandernw
Freelancer @162 - "As for the smack-down, it wasn't that big a deal." That's what made it so sweet. You asked a simple, yes-or-no question. The other party then proceeded to plait a nice long rope, tie the appropriate knots, do all the work for you, and... Whoa! Didn't see that coming at all!

Okay, I seem to be channeling my inner Cadsuane a lot lately; apparently there's a reason I now understand her more than I used to.

Hey, did anyone watch the suvudu videos of Brandon's reading and Q&A in Seattle? That was me he "apologized" to about not liking Cadsuane. :)

Anyway, I find that all too frequently, I have very little tolerance for what I perceive as foolishness. This is fairly well represented by my eye-rolling attitude toward the noobs who both think they know all and are eager to put down anyone who disagrees with them. In my defense, I don't mind if people show their ignorance of the book synthesis and extra-textual information we have; I've spent many a post pointing people to the sites I've found useful, and providing quotations to clarify points for them. Most people love it, and promptly get lost in all the fun that is WoTFAQ, Theoryland, Dragonmount, 13th Depository, WoT Encyclopaedia, WoT Chronology and so on. They come back with big shining eyes and the same thrill of "Wow! Look at all this good stuff!" that I had when I first discovered it not so long ago.

Okay, I just reminded myself why I got the reputation of "guru" in spite of my relatively recent entry to the whole online fandom thing: Even more than giving the "right" answers, I love to show people how to find the answers for themselves. It's so fun, even when the "big shining eyes" are only virtual.

That said, I find that I'm far too impatient with those who don't take correction well. I don't really mind when someone comes on and "texts" us, or posts big unbroken walls of text. It's when they get snitty about suggestions that they improve their presentation if they want to be read, or (worse yet) start throwing insults at other commenters that I start sharpening my invective. And every time I start a paragragph pointing out my failure to accomodate them, I end up attempting to justifiy my position instead.

Help! I am them!

So anyway. I hereby resolve to attempt to be kinder toward the foolish silly vain swelled-headed overeager dolts buffoons commenters who swarm to the new Towers of Midnight Spoiler Thread. Y'all can remind me of that, preferably before I slap anyone...
Tess Laird
178. thewindrose
Sorry to have missed wishing Happy Birthday to Wetlandernw on her day - But Happy Belated Birthday Wetlandernw!!

Tess Laird
179. thewindrose
Freelancer - Happy Birthday!!!
Birthday bash at the bunker.

I will add an image here, when the image button becomes available again:(

John Massey
180. subwoofer
Hi Wind:) Has this anything to do with discussions of days past? It seems that "software no worky" is the theme of the day. That and it is quiet, too quiet.


We could use a little excitement in this wee bit of the county

Or maybe an exorcism.

Tess Laird
181. thewindrose
sub - I clicked on your link - and I got this message. Wow, I didn't realize that Americans were blocked from anything - we like have created and own everything you know;)

This video contains content from Lionsgate, who has blocked it in your country on copyright grounds.

It is a bit a bit quiet, maybe everyone is at the bunker, I am coming!!

John Massey
182. subwoofer

Blocked? Well then let me see here... sigh... well that sucks. It was just a classic er... favorite moment from an old movie. Well, let's try another one.

Something's gotta work.

Bunker should be hopping. Our resident gurus' birthdays and life is good. Can't think of a better reason for a celebration:)

John Massey
184. subwoofer

yeah, I Spy or the Three Investigators time:)


crap. that did not work.

hows about?

Rob Munnelly
185. RobMRobM
@165. Sub, you know what happened after that quotation?

And while Jesus had has face looking downward at the dirt, a rock came flying out of the crowd and hit the adulteress square in the noggin. And while the ensuing avalanche of stones poured upon the poor sinner, Jesus turned to a person in the crowd and said....

"Sometimes, Ma, you really tick me off."

LOL, Rob
Tess Laird
186. thewindrose
Worldnewsbulletin -
Welcome to America Mr. GageCreedLives!!!

I look forward to meeting up when you are in the Twin Cities area.
***(Notice to all Twin City Area Lurkers)*** Please contact me via shout box or on a ongoing WoT Thread, we have a visitor coming soon, it would be cool to all meet him and show that MN has some WoT pride going on!

Back to your regular programing;)
Tess Laird
187. thewindrose
So I was trying to find the vid Wetlandernw mentioned(I couldn't btw)...but I did find this(on the suvudu site)!!!

Chapters 1 and 2 will soon follow as free excerpts for registered Tor.com users. The finished book goes on-sale November 2nd.


Are these people in the know?

Wayne Wilson
188. stylusmobilus
Happy birthday, Freelancer and Wetlandernw.


Our police forces were well and truly asleep before Gage left. Unless it's the Victoria Police, who will shoot you for jaywalking.
Catching criminals in Australia is not like the rest of the world.
The biggest callout for the police in Australia is disruptive and noisy parties.
191. Freelancer
Isn't capturing criminals in Australia ... redundant?

195. lachlanB
@ 191
technically the same can be said of americans. the poms sent convicts there first
Alice Arneson
196. Wetlandernw
thewindrose @187 - For some reason I'm having trouble posting tonight, but if you go to suvudu and search on Brandon Sanderson, you'll find a segment titled "Video: Brandon Sanderson event." There's a short write-up and then a series of videos; the part I referred to is in Part IV, I think, though I can't give you a time reference. It was a fun event, anyway.
Thomas Keith
197. insectoid
ValMar @170:

Even insectoid threw in a whole paragraph!
Yes, and you're probably the only one who read it... :(

Happy Birthday Free!

Nearly to the 2-double-donut...

EDIT: Hmm, strange error. "Image Upload Disabled"

Heidi Byrd
198. sweetlilflower
@Wetlander and Freelancer

Happy Birthday to you, happy birthday to you, haaaapppppyyyy birrrrrrththththdaaayyyy dear wetlander and freelancer, happy birthdaaayyy to yooouuuuuu :)

@others: We were all once new posters, but I don't want to read a poorly written diatribe by some ill-mannered kid who seems to think that he knows everything there is to know and has figured out every mystery. Perhaps it is the Southern in me, but I expect a certain level of politeness. The poster I referred to may have had some interesting things to say, but I'll never know because I refuse to read the verbal diarhea that begins each of his posts.

on WoT: In hindsight, I like the idea that Tuon was intrigued by Mat from the beginning. It helps to think that there might be mutual attraction in their marriage instead of just "the good of the kingdom" and "the 'Fins told me to".
Heidi Byrd
199. sweetlilflower
Also, I second chaplainchris1 @183 :)

And, I've made it easy for someone to swoop in and claim the nice, pretty round number. I will be forced to go back and edit my first post. I will officially eat crow (technically that happened when we passed 100)
Thomas Keith
200. insectoid
*crickets chirping* Do I have to do it?
EDIT: I guess I did. Two Double Donut!! ::goes in search of donuts::

Oddly enough, last year Chapters 1 and 2 of TGS came out first, before the Prologue did (around the same time as this year). But maybe this will work better... who knows.

Tess Laird
201. thewindrose
insectoid - thewindrose and found a write up from suvudu and found that TOR was going to do just that -chaps 1&2!! Yayayayay!!

Anyways, I did find the vidio Wetlandernw - very cool:)

insectoid - donuts - that is what will be for breakfast in the morning;)

Antoni Ivanov
202. tonka
@Wetlander and Freelancer
Happy, happy, happy birthday!
Jonathan Levy
203. JonathanLevy
Freelancer @ 191
Isn't capturing criminals in Australia ... redundant?


RobMRobM @ 185
@165. Sub, you know what happened after that quotation?

I always thought the continuation was:
- Look, I'd had a lovely supper, and all I said to my wife was: "That piece of halibut was good enough for Jehovah."
- Blasphemy!!! He said it again!!!

insectoid @ 169
I think I found the TGS open spoiler thread. It has 3428 comments. That's gotta be the correct thread, right?
3428 comments... 44,359 lines... 3,131,821 bytes... 640 occurrences of the string "Freelancer". This should just take a few minutes...

Oh, and Happy Birthday to all!
Jonathan Levy
204. JonathanLevy
Ok, I did a little research in the old thread, and I learned a few things.
1) The gentleman in question was named pattack. I hope this means I did actually find the correct incident.
2) It is possible to reconstruct a post where all the vowels have been removed. Though the epithet 'g bk sm spng rt cks' is still giving me trouble. Go bake some sponge art cakes?
3) If you're hunting for a flame-war in a 3,000+ post thread, you'd think it makes sense to search for words like "stupid" and "idiot", but this doesn't work in a WoT thread because all you find is discussions about Gawyn.
a a-p
205. lostinshadow
happy belated b-day our dearly beloved gurus!

@204 - that name seems familiar, I think you've got the right incident - and flame wars here are far too polite and (at least on the old timer side) well articulated to involve slinging of insults such as "stupid" and "idiot"

now off to the prediction thread to see what's going on over there.

oh and Sam, great writing as usual.
Valentin M
206. ValMar
J Levy @ 204
3) lol

Somewhat WOT related, tonight I'm going to a gig. In their new album the band (Blind Guardian) have 2 songs based on WOT. This is the first time that a significant band (the album reached 7th spot in the European Charts, 2nd in Germany) has done anything based on WOT. Hopefully this will bring thousands more into the world of R Jordan.
207. alreadymadwiththeblind
Valmar @206
The band's name alone is an obvious play on Rand.

Happy birthday Wetlander and freelancer
Karen Jacobs
208. KJacobs
Belated Happy Birthday to Wetlander & Freelancer! Hope you both enjoyed your celebrations!
209. Freelancer
Jonathan Levy,

Yes, you have the monster thread. Yes, pattack was one who could have learned a lesson or two from Emily Post. No, he was not the subject of the aforementioned flame trap (that occurred in the smaller, secondary TGS spoilerific thread). Pattack was treated to Torie's wrath for deciding to blow up over a series of innocuous comments intended to guide the lad toward gaining some respect.

As for your reconstruction efforts, not bad at all. The phrase you haven't solved is "Go bake some asping rot cookies". We of the bunker do love our cookies. But I cannot say if asping rot would lose its toxicity when heated that much, or I suspect Verin would have had hers prepared in a dish of solid food to hide the horrible taste. No, she chose to steep it in a tea. Quite probably, then, asping rot cookies would not have had the effect which pattack desired. No matter, one need only see that he didn't last (or if he did, with a different identity and a vastly improved sense of propriety).
210. Freelancer
And now, this one humbly thanks you all for the gracious good wishes. It was an excellent day, filled with much joy and pleasant family time.
Valentin M
211. ValMar
Alreadymad @ 207
Yes, the name of the band- "Blind Guardian"- actually is relevant to Rand. It's just a coincidence though. They were established before the TEOTW was published.
Thomas Keith
212. insectoid
JL @204: ROFL!! I'm surprised you were able to open it at all...

ValMar @206: Way cool! Probably the only reason I own one of their albums is because it is Nightfall in Middle-Earth (based on The Silmarillion).
Say, what is the new album called? Would you recommend any of their other albums? I'm only familiar with the one.

Alice Arneson
213. Wetlandernw
Jonathan Levy @204 - 1) grin 2) LOL 3) ROFL!! I had tears running down my face, and nearly choked while trying to read it to my husband - WoT super-fan he isn't, but even he laughed out loud!! My daughter just thinks I'm nuts... as usual. Unfortunately, I can't figure out how to explain it to a 7-year-old, so she just has to think what she thinks.

@many - Thank you all so very much for the kind birthday wishes! Now that I'm officially on the right half of the century, I'll be playing my Cadsuane card on a regular basis. :) Nicely. I promise not to balefire anyone, at least... ;)

Hey, maybe age will mellow me? We can all hope.
Chris Chaplain
214. chaplainchris1
Jonathan Levy @ 204, re#3 - HAH!! Big guffawing belly laughs, which I needed. Thanks!

Yep, I remember the pattack. I was pretty new then (though I did post from time to time in late stages of the Jordan newsgroup), didn't go grey for ages after (until, ahem, Tektonika pushed me into it - hi Tek!). But by the point I started posting I'd read *all* the reread threads currently out there, and *most* of the comments, and most of you old-timers seemed pretty familiar.

On that note, happy belated birthdays all, hope they were days of Wetness and Freedom. Or something.
Alice Arneson
215. Wetlandernw
chris @214 - Considering where I live, September always involves wetness. It's why I chose my nickname for all things WoT. We have a saying... "Seattle has two seasons: the rainy season and August."
Alice Arneson
216. Wetlandernw
chris @214 - Considering where I live, September always involves wetness. It's why I chose my nickname for all things WoT. We have a saying... "Seattle has two seasons: the rainy season and August."
Lannis .
217. Lannis
Jonathan Levy @ 204: BAHAahahaha! I (heart) that you tried to decipher the asping rot cookies phrase. And #3 was the best... stupid/idiot = Gawyn--ha!

Ah, yes we've all been new, and we've all been (at one point or another) enlightened by another poster. I'm one of the first to admit that my memory is craptacular, and by all means, please set me straight if I'm remembering something incorrectly. (IIRC, I think Free and I had a pseudo-clash about Aram waaay back in one of TSR threads, which boiled down to me just not liking Aram, regardless of his necessity in the plot... True clash? No. Which is probably why the pair of us are still here--the ability to discuss differences in opinion, not belittle the other poster.)

I think--for the most part--there's an openness and a humility to our little community here that allows for posters to correct others politely. We've all seen the flame wars, we've all noticed the hungry trolls. There's something to be said about the fact that polite company tends to stay, and the others leave.

And, well, when it comes right down to it, we do have fun here, yes? :)

Yeah... it occurs to me that I have nothing WoT-related to say except: I can't wait for November 2! XD

Oh! Aaaaand, what is a birthday (or a pair of?) without the aforementioned baked goods? I made oatmeal cookies and zucchini bread! Bunker ahoy! Happy birthdays (again) to Wetlander and Freelancer! :D
219. alreadymadwithwetseason
Well... September's when the rainy season sets in in my little corner of the world..

I love this place. Where else do you find a cuendillar bunker stocked with assorted cookies, cakes and your own personal damane...
Alice Arneson
220. Wetlandernw
Apropos of not much, I just noticed something.
First, from memory, we had a discussion a while back about Mat's riding ability and his eye for horses, what had changed over the series, and what had not. IIRC, someone was being annoyed that in the early books, Mat was noted as an indifferent rider, but all of a sudden in the later (or middle) books he's not only a good judge of horseflesh but also an excellent rider.

The ability to recognize various qualities in a horse was textually attributed to Abel Cauthon's training; although some may not believe it sufficient, that's what Mat claims. But what about riding skill? Why was he "indifferent" back in book one, but excellent later? Try this, from the current chapter:
After so long in the stables, Pips wanted to frisk if he could not run, and it took all Mat's skill - well, all the skill that had somehow come with those other men's memories - to keep the animal in hand.
So there you have it. Mystery solved. Just in case anyone either remembered or cared.
Tricia Irish
221. Tektonica
Sam, Mis and fellow gabbly Spear Sisters@130:
Thank you so much for that happy ending story! Wonderful. I miss you all!

A belated Happy Birthday to you, Wetlander and Free. Welcome to my side of the mountain. (That would be the downhill side ;-) ) Sorry my good wishes are late, but I'm vacating and I've been busy having fun, and my mind is, well, vacated.

@214 *waves Hi back* ChaplainChris! Didn't remember it was me pushing you to go gray. *blushes* But glad you did and are still here posting away!

JonathanLevy@204: ROFLOL....Gawyn...stupid, idiot! That flame war was amazing. I hope you find the other one too, where Free so very subtly baited our raging flamer and hung her by her own petard. (I think it was a her?)

Yes, we were all newbies once. I lurked for months, reading and trying to suss out the players and attitudes, and I made a real effort to "fit in" when I worked up the courage to post. My knees were knocking, but everyone here was so polite and helpful, showing me the ropes. I'd never participated in any blogs before, and was totally clueless about the bbc code, what FWIF meant (and all the other acronyms), how to go gray, etc. A real noob.

This is a wonderful community. I am still amazed that I have cyber friends, whom I deeply admire, genuinely like, and look forward to talking to every day! I'm so looking forward to Jcon and meeting some of you!

Anyway...thank you, all. You are smart, funny, nice, polite, erudite, and knowledgeable! My love for and understanding of WoT has been greatly rejuvenated and enhanced by you all.
Thomas Keith
222. insectoid
Tek @221: You're welcome, and thanks! ::waves::

I hope you find the other one too, where Free so very subtly baited our raging flamer and hung her by her own petard...

Beats me. Roxinos is the only other unpleasant character I can recall. (Though he was allegedly male.)

(I try not to remember them. They're so... uncivilized!)

Still getting that weird error. Huh.

223. Freelancer
Hi Lannis! Pseudo-clash, you and me? A minuscule misunderstanding at the most, I'm certain. But over Aram? Really? I've always been fairly indifferent about him.

Discussion, debate, even argument regarding theories or interpretation of WoT minutiae are part of what we're here about, and I think everyone ends up more informed as a result, as long as the dialogue is civil. Some don't quite get that, and while I freely admit that I am willing to throw down with such a one, it usually takes a fair bit to open that can, and certainly never over a difference in viewpoint about the story, but about mutual respect and/or decency.

Perhaps my fighting instinct will diminish with age, and I'll become more like sub, just happy that someone pets my head or throws me a bone. Yeah, I don't believe it either. ::shrug::

Oh, and Lannis, please, please tell me there's raisins in those oatmeal cookies. I can resist anything but a Santa Maria Tri-tip, and oatmeal-raisin cookies.


I remember well when you finally decided to chime in, but you've belonged here from that moment. I remember that I once mistook you for another commenter, making reference to you being young, which you took to mean immature. I have toh. Also, what does FWIF mean?

Jonathan Levy,

Since everyone keeps mentioning it (I didn't think then, or now, that what I did was that huge. To quote Maverick, I had the shot, there was no danger, so I took it. But I broke no major rules of engagement), the name to look for in the Second TGS Spoiler Thread is Tenkuu. Don't blame me if what you find isn't really interesting. After all, I'm just an vrblwn wndbg.
Thomas Keith
224. insectoid
Free @223: Tenkuu... oh yeah. I remember that one.

After all, I'm just an vrblwn wndbg.

Just because tenkuu thought so doesn't mean it's true! I'm sure most of us consider you a considerate, thoughtful, and prolific commenter.

Mmm... oatmeal raisin cookies. ::drool::

Tina Pierce
225. scissorrunner
A double birthday? & I am late to the party as usual.......
(thats what I get for trying to read The Way of Kings in one sitting)(didn't work anyway)

oh well, I guess I'll just refill the cookie jars (spiced molasses, chocolate chip, & iced sugarcookies in the shape of a serpent swallowing its own tail)

Happy Birthday to you both!
Jay Dauro
226. J.Dauro
Okay, if we're bringing cookies, I'm in. Double chocolate chip, and my specialty, Oatmeal Blueberry.

And as Tektonica says, Welcome to the backside of the mountain.
Tricia Irish
227. Tektonica
Free@223: You have always been so helpful! You have no toh to me. I meant FWIW...not FWIF...it was late, sorry. LOL.
We love you, vrblwn wndbg.

**waves at the Bug** Tenkuu....yes, that was the one....Miss Cantankerous. And then there was the Anime person. There's always one to brighten up our thread.

GCL is in the USA! Yikes! Batten down the hatches. Hide your children! Hope you have a great trip GCL and meet many of us. Wish I weren't stuck down in that tail in the southeast. So far from the rest of the world.

Forgot: I'm bringing Oatmeal/ Chocolate chip cookies....my personal faves....it's a great combo....you might even like it Free. Radical, I know.
Valentin M
228. ValMar
Insectoid @ 212
The new album is called At the Edge of Time. They did play Wheel of Time last night, all 9 minutes worth of goodness. As to recommending other of their albums- I did think about it and it's very hard to answer. Have a go in Youtube. One way to start is by Live- their live album, 22 songs. Kind of Best Of. Sound quality is great and you get the amazing live atmosphere. You haven't lived till you heard the live performance of The Bard's Song in the Forest.

More on non-WOT. I've been a bit confused about this talk of food, about people bringing it. This isn't actually real, right? Or is the bunker real and some of you folks are meeting and plotting and munching chocolate?
Tricia Irish
229. Tektonica
Double post due to a bad connection at the Holiday Inn and an impatient poster. oops.
John Massey
230. subwoofer
Head scratching?- Well, yeah, especially behind the ears, but what I am really after is the tummy rubs:D

Incidentally, among the many things that occured yesterday, I actually baked, and did not burn down the kitchen. It was a miracle. Wife loves cookies too, especially with cold milk so I decided to surprise her. And there is nothing like the smell of fresh baked cookies to make a house smell like home.

Being new... well, at some point we all were. Except for Free;) But as Lannis said, it is a good feeling that the polite company tends to stay. Well put. I am honored to be surrounded by such good people who care and share the same passion as I do. As I have said, Jcon may be a heck of a challenge for me, but if God is willing, I will be there. Distance plus a fresh addition on the horizon may complicate any plans I do make. But it is a good thing. Yay! :)

Tricia Irish
231. Tektonica
Sub.....did you say a fresh addition? I assume that doesn't mean ON the house.....IN the house....as in a new person???? Are congratulations in order????
Marcus W
232. toryx
Wait, Freelancer and Wetlandernw also just had birthdays? I didn't realize I shared that with them.

Happy birthday to you both!
Tess Laird
233. thewindrose
Tek - It was a while ago that subwoofer did mention a new woofer would be gracing our world. So it should be soon now:)

I was going to mention a certain lack of posting - Tek - and then remembered you were Traveling about(and without me!) = ;)
My parents just left for a cruise on the Rhine for two weeks then are finishing with a week in Paris. My daughter is so jealous(so am I) - they told her that when she and her brother are a bit older that they could go traveling overseas with them - boy did I just get replaced or what!

John Massey
234. subwoofer
Well- you know I like to renovate;) Yeah, somewhere in the middle of December I am going to be a dad. Sweating bullets. I am no where near mature enough- I am the biggest kid ever- for this. It is exciting. Gotta stop cussin', be a positive example, all O dat. It does feel great though. I am very blessed. First by having a wonderful wife, now, yikes, a little pup of my very own:D

John Massey
235. subwoofer
Well- you know I like to renovate;) Yeah, somewhere in the middle of December I am going to be a dad. Sweating bullets. I am no where near mature enough- I am the biggest kid ever- for this. It is exciting. Gotta stop cussin', be a positive example, all O dat. It does feel great though. I am very blessed. First by having a wonderful wife, now, yikes, a little pup of my very own:D

Edit- good news is worth repeating twice, but a note to everyone. When you see that "error image upload" thingy warning message, do not click "refresh". Just look at recent comments and "click" on that. Otherwise you will all be joining me:)

a a-p
236. lostinshadow
I must have missed your earlier comment on the addition - so congrats on the forthcoming new pup!
Barry T
237. blindillusion
Tek. Tenkuu was the Anime person (unless there's been more than one?)

Sub - many congrats. =)

Ethan Harris
238. eeh
Wait, I'm new to posting but not new to reading the re-reads! I've never posted until now because I've been trying to catch up to Leigh's posts but:

1. You guys crack me up half the time with your random bantering about things
2. Does anyone know where Leigh is at? If she's alive or just tooling around making us wait with bated breath.
3. I'm glad to be caught up with the re-read :)
Ethan Harris
239. eeh
Wait, I'm new to posting but not new to reading the re-reads! I've never posted until now because I've been trying to catch up to Leigh's posts but:

1. You guys crack me up half the time with your random bantering about things
2. Does anyone know where Leigh is at? If she's alive or just tooling around making us wait with bated breath.
3. I'm glad to be caught up with the re-read :)
Lucas Vollmer
240. aspeo
I agree with Ehnate (welcome to posting btw!), you guys are hilarious to read! Lately I haven't had much to add to the convo, but it has still been entertaining to see what everyone here is saying.

I personally didn't find the re-read until it was well into the middle, and I went back and read everything previously before I decidede to jump in. Even then it took a while to work myself up to actually posting something. I think it had something to do with worrying about the water being too cold, but I eventually decidede to dive in anyways!

Happy belated bdays to wetlandernw and freelancer and (I think) toryx!

Congratulations on your new upcoming addition subwoofer!

Blindillusion: I love that pic! It's soooo cute! :)
Jonathan Levy
241. JonathanLevy
Haha, I did manage to track down that thread, and find the smackdown. I think I agree with you, Freelancer, that people are making a bit more of it than it's worth. But then again, it can be difficult to catch the tone & mood of a conversation when you read it retrospectively, and quite a few people at the time posted a comment expressing their appreciation of it.

Good thing you remembered tenkuu's name - it made the search a lot easier. Thanks!

In any case, it was quite a bit of fun tracking this down and re-reading it. I also noticed the anime conversation, because tenkuu was part of it. An anime Moiraine? I don't want to even think about it.
Jonathan Levy
242. JonathanLevy
Edit to clarify: This post is (in its own special way) a reply to posts 153, 154, 161, 162, and is inspired (in a way) by the research discussed in 209, 214, 217, 221, 223, 224.

Ok, here's my Prediction on what chapter 21 of ToM will contain:

The room was only eight paces long, no matter how many times Mat walked across it, but he could not stop. If he sat down, he would only be on his feet again a moment later. Step step turn. Five days since they had broken out of the tower of Ghenjei, and he was at his wits' end. Where was Nynaeve? It seemed hours since he had sent Olver to fetch her. Step step turn. If Moiraine woke up before she arrived... his eye flew to the bedroom door, but it was still closed and no sound came from beyond it. Step step turn. How many times had he thought himself free of Aes Sedai? Even dead she had pulled his strings, and now she was alive again he was more tangled than ever. Step step turn. Would that blasted -

"She won't come any faster for all your pacing Mat" said Thom. "A woman arrives when a woman is ready".

Mat caught himself with a hand on the table, and eyed the gleeman queasily. Sudden noises from the right still made him jump. But it was not the thought of his missing eye that turned his stomach. He could not understand how the man could speak so calmly. Just looking at Thom made him light-headed, ever since that first... argument... after their escape. Why could the man not wear his hat indoors as well? He did not want to think about what had happened to Thom. Or to Noal, the light shine on him.

"Burn her, she's probably still picking her dress, and the forkroot could wear off any minute! Any minute!"

"The wheel weaves as the wheel wills, Mat." Thom had never seemed an old man to Mat, for all his white hair, but he sounded a hundred years old now. "In any case - "

"I'll have you strung up by the ankles for this, Matrim Cauthon!" growled Nynaeve as she strode into the room. She might have chewed her way through the door for all the iron in her gaze. "Summoning me at this hour without so much as an explanation! How dare you - oh, Light! Thom! What happened to your ears?"

"We don't have time for that now - " began Mat, but the wisdom was already at the side of the gleeman, his head between her hands. The medallion froze against his chest as she channeled. He watched, riveted, as the flesh writhed under her hands, and ever so slowly the donkey's ears Thom had worn for the last five days fell away, revealing the originals beneath them. No-one could Heal like Nynaeve. If she could do that for his eye... but he had already asked her about that. No need to bring it up again.

Throughout it all, Thom spoke not a word, nor raised his eyes. It was as if his life had left them. The body could be Healed, but the soul...

She was done. Her gaze turned to him. Anvils were softer. "How did this happen?"

He told her. He told her everything. How they had snuck into the tower of Ghenjei. How they had found Moiraine. They had had to fight their way out. His eye. Their escape. Moiraine had... changed. The first argument. There was no need to go into details about Noal. Light, poor Noal. The other arguments he skipped as well. Time was short. Travelling back to Caemlyn. Moiraine could Travel now, if she could be convinced to. If she could be trusted to. The forkroot, to control her. He was the only one who could force her to drink the forkroot when she didn't want to. The last few days. Their desperate -

"I'm awake!" The voice came from the bedroom, piping and discordant, dancing on the verge of recognition. "You can bring me my dinner now, peeps, I'm hungry!"

Mat grabbed Nynaeve's sleeve - "We must go inside, we can't wait. You'll see for yourself. Quickly!" For once she did not argue, and followed him into the bedroom.

A pale, slender boy sat in the unmade bed, less than sixteen summers old. A few blotches marred his face, and his hair was unkempt. A faint air of uncleanliness emanated from him. His eyes turned to Nynaeve. "Are you the maid? You don't have my dinner! Why don't you have my dinner? What kind of a maid are you, with that stupid dress? I want to have dinner and then I want to watch television. You said I could have strawberries!" - this was to Mat - "Why haven't you brought my strawberries?!"

Sweat glistened on Mat's face. He had asked all day, and no-one had ever heard of "straw" berries. He loosened the scarf around his neck. "I said that if you went to bed without making a fuss, I would see if I could find these 'strawberries'. But you screamed and shouted and threw pillows and - "

"I don't care! I want my strawberries! You're so stupid, your IQ is single digits! Go get a life! I hate you all!"

He glanced at Nynaeve's pale face. All her self-assurance was gone. Perhaps he should have asked Cadsuane to come. She had dealt with difficult children as Wisdom - he remembered some of those cases very well! - but this boy was almost a man. Even the Congars did not behave like this.

"Nynaeve is a Healer, Moiraine, and she is just going to check you to make sure you're - "

"I don't want a healer! I want to play on my xbox!" The boy dashed for the door, and only Mat's quickness caught him. "Time for more of your medicine!" he growled, as he reached for the flask of forkroot tea that he always carried with him these days. A short wrestling match later, and Moiraine was back in the bed. At least the medallion had not gone cold this time. He would rather face the gholam again than face that. Nynaeve was still rooted to her spot. It took a while to convince her to delve the boy, and still longer to drag her back out into the receiving room, even though she said he was perfectly healthy and there was nothing to Heal. Nynaeve was not one to give up easily.

Thom was still in his chair. He had not moved.

It took a while for her to speak. "Mat... do you know for sure that it's Moiraine?"

"I know. We questioned her after we got out of the tower. That's how the first argument started."

"But what's wrong with her? With him? I delved him and he's perfectly healthy."

"I don't know. She's a child now. And uses those strange words. It's like he's from another age."

"But how could this have happened?"

"The foxes must have done it. Look at the Ashandrei they gave him."

"I can't read the Old Tongue, Mat, and you know - "

"It says 'For the last battle, I want to be as wise-ass as possible and a know-it-all'.

"You mean she asked to be as wise as is possible and to know everything?"

"I suppose that's what it meant. The Old Tongue is difficult to translate."

"And they turned her into a 15-year-old boy from another Age?!"

"I told you, Nynaeve. The Aelfinn cheat!"
Noneo Yourbusiness
243. Longtimefan
Better late (I hope) than never so here are some post birthday felicitous wishes to Wetlander and Freelancer and very good wishes on Subwoofers upcoming new addition. Which I am sure we will be getting back to again with warm wishes in the snow blanketed month of December.

I am assuming Canada has snow in December. All I know about it is from an old national geographic magazine about fur trappers and lumberjacks. :) If things have changed just let me know.
Bonnie Andrews
244. misfortuona
Jonathan Levy@ 242
ROFL That was just too awsome, and so true.

Sub Congratulations again. FWIW (Hi Tek) I think you're going to make an wonderful father. You may have to name the new pup Lucky.

Mis-trying hard not to wish away October
Lannis .
245. Lannis
@ Free: Hi! ::waves:: Yes, oatmeal raisin! And yes, Aram--I'm fairly certain it was you (there's that craptacular memory again...), and you called shenanigans on my critique of Aram... because I'd deconstructed exactly why he was in the text, and essential to Perrin's character arc, but I still didn't like him. Seems to me you thanked me for not taking you too seriously? I remember being delighted to actually be engaged in conversation--oh yes, we were all once newbies. :)

Tek @ 227: We love you, vrblwn wndbg. Wow. Jonathan Levy's right... you *can* decipher words without vowels. ;)

ValMar @ 228: The bunker is here... the reread. All are welcome. Pantry's usually stocked. As it the bar. Watch out though, the parties here get rowdy around here. ;)

@ toryx: Happy birthday! :)

@ Sub: I *thought* I remembered something about a little woof mentioned waaaay back. Must be getting excited. :D

And we'll NEED you at Jcon, btw. Who else is going to lead us troublemakers?

Yeah... I still have nothing WoT to add. Bad, bad reread participant, I know. Well, new post tomorrow. :D

EDIT: @ Free: AHA! You did call shenanigans on me... I found it! Lookit that! Some days this memory still works! ;)

(Hoping the link works--first time using the schnazzy new linkage thingy...)
Theresa Gray
246. Terez27
So, if some of you guys are at JCon I want to meet you! I got to meet sweetlilflower at DCon. She was a lot of fun in the panel discussions...one of the few people who had a clue.
Barry T
247. blindillusion
I'll be there Terez. Though I think I may have "met" you last year, if you're the Theorylander who proposed the theory that Moiraine is a damsel in distress.

I took a different view, seeing as how there's (perhaps) nothing she can do about it.
Chris R
248. up2stuff
Happy belated! Wet and Free.

Sub, your pup will be a piece of cake. They sleep a LOT at first. They turn into little people around 1.5 - 2 years, though. It takes a lot to keep up then, but the little personalities/attitudes/voices will have you laughing so hard at times, you won't stand it. Mine is just a hare over 2, now and half the time I can't see straight. Looking forward to all of it on your behalf. You'll have a great time!

James Jones
249. jamesedjones
Holy Shamoley, there's been a LOT of activity during my weekend of real life.

First off, congrats to Subwoofer! And hide the iced tea.

Second, any of ya'll headed to JCon... I hate you. :( And, have fun. *sigh* Maybe next year. :P

Last, 242 JL was soooooo appropriate. I didn't see much difference between the new Moiraine and Joline. Poor Mat.
Chris R
250. up2stuff
your posts are a big part of helping me hold it together untill TOM. Hope everything is well and that we will "see" you tomorrow. Thanks again for your efforts. It truly has helped me take away sooo much more from the series than I would have ever expected.

To all,
thanks for putting so much time in to this community. The material is sooo much more memorable because of all your efforts. Cant wait for Towers.
Heidi Byrd
251. sweetlilflower
242. Jonathan Levy : HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH Very nice

@Terez: ::blushes:: aww, thanks. An especially touching compliment since it came from you. BTW, Terez totally kicked some butt in the trivia games. I was impressed that I remembered Thom's girlfirend's name from TGH, but Terez remembers everything! It was awesome to watch one of our own put the smackdown on everyone else :)

@Sub: Congrats on your upcoming addition. Cheers to sleepless nights, disgusting diapers, endless crying, and the best time you'll ever have. It helps to think philosophically about the first three and revel in everything else.
Roger Powell
252. forkroot
Hey! Nice detective work on Mat's riding. Yes, I'd forgotten, but glad you brought it up with a nice resolution. While I don't claim that WoT is perfect, it's amazing how well Jordan's work stands up to repeated scrutiny; pretty much unprecedented for a story of this size and complexity.


This is a wonderful community. I am still amazed that I have cyber friends, whom I deeply admire, genuinely like, and look forward to talking to every day! I'm so looking forward to Jcon and meeting some of you!

I know exactly what you mean. To be honest, I've always shunned "social networks". I don't have a Facebook account, I don't tweet. Yet, amazingly, I've found the corner of cyberspace that fits me and I have come to genuinely appreciate a group of friends that (with a couple of exceptions) I've only met on-line.
Hilarious! But I got caught laughing out loud here at work again. I'm going to have to be careful reading your posts.

Wetlandernw, Freelancer, and toryx - sounds like I'm late to the party but a belated Happy Birthday. Just remember that from my POV you're all whippersnappers!
253. Freelancer

Oh, I love many kinds of cookies. There's just one that would, if I were left with an unlimited supply, turn me into a lump of lard.


Well, a belated and heartfelt Happy Birthday to you too.


Ahh yes. Aram indeed. Well, ::cough::, the vrblwn wndbg is very glad that you didn't storm off and never return following that horribly impolite, rude, hypocritical attack on you.


Congratulations, Big Dog. My one piece of unsolicited advice: Talk normally to newborns, as if they could understand every word, and you'll be amazed how quickly they will.
Ron Garrison
254. Man-0-Manetheran
Jonathan Levy! That was hilarious! There are strawberries in the bunker. Thanks!

Sub: congratulations - you'll be a great dad

Toryx: Happy Birthday to you too.

Jcon: That's sounding more and more like the place to be. Can someone post a link to more info, reservations, etc.?
Thomas Keith
255. insectoid
Suffering in a grisly 105° heat wave. Got the fans a' blasting and wishing I had some oatmeal raisin cookies. ::waves at Lannis::

A belated Happy Birthday to Toryx!

ValMar @228: Thanks for the info... I'll check it out!

Sub @234/5: Congratulations! FYI, I let Torie know about the bug, so hopefully it'll be fixed soon.

JL @242: ::snortROFLOLhaha:: Love it!

0xFF, FWIW...

John Massey
256. subwoofer
@All Thank you sooo much for the best wishes. My wife has a differing view, but then again, she knows me;)

@LTF- We are very cautious about fur trappers around here. Dunno if there is a price on my fuzzy hide, but I will attempt to blend in with the snow- and yeah, we get tons of the white stuff, no fear of that:)


Cheers to sleepless nights, disgusting diapers, endless crying,

I don't cry so much anymore.
@JL- LOL- yeah, that sums it up pretty good. There is always a catch with the Finn. Why the donkey ears?

@Blind- that, my friend was a lovely picture- it got an "awwwww" from my wife. Perfect:D

Geeze- guess this means I gotta figure out the JCON thing for sure tho'.


Karen Jacobs
257. KJacobs
I'm late to the party as usual (or in this case missed it altogether!), but wanted to extend a belated Happy Birthday to Toryx. Blueberry cheesecake in the bunker - Bon Appetit!
Roger Powell
258. forkroot

Suffering in a grisly 105° heat wave.

Hah! Just another summer day for us here in Phoenix - although I admit that we get grouchy when the 100° degree days last into October.
Sam Mickel
259. Samadai
MoM @254.
here is the link for Jordancon 2011. Brandon Sanderson will be there, though he is not the guest of honor for 2011.
It will be a good time for all of us that can go. (I am already booked there)
@toryx.... A belated Happy Birthday.
@ Lannis...... Love that glimpse at older posts. We have lost a lot of fellow posters since back then, but gained some really great ones too. Looking at Birgits list of posters, some of the old timers that are no longer here are still in the running for # of posts.
I also had never belonged to an online community before Tor.com. I had always heard people in them were rude and mean to new people. With the exception of a couple of people who couldn't stop flaming, this has been a great group of people, many of whom I now consider friends.
I hope to meet as many of you as possible at Jordancon next April.

edit for: as always thank you for the good words on the story Misfortuona posted for me at comment #130
Ron Garrison
260. Man-0-Manetheran
Thanks Sam! For my non-WoT friends, I refer to this forum as My Book Club. You are all a great bunch, and I look forward to meeting as many as possible at Jcon. Tektonica and her son and I had a fun dinner when they were in Denver, and she's just as great as I (and you!) imagined.
Lannis .
261. Lannis
Free @ 253: ::chuckle::snort:: I reread our whole Aram/shenanigans conversation posts, and it still makes me giggle. I try to always read everything online with a humourous slant... and frankly, I'd have a lot fewer friends if I took myself seriously... and probably a fewer brain cells, too! ;)

And like Tek said: We love you, vrblwn wndbg. ;)

insectoid @ 255: ::passes the cookie tub:: Did you see? Blueberry cheesecake in the bunker?! Thanks KJacobs!

Re: JordanCon: As soon as my cousin and I get our act together regarding our travel itinerary, I'll be booking our hotel room! And yes, I hope we can all get together! We'll all have to wear name tags with our nicknames on them...

I love this... we're all so off topic--can we tell it's time for another post? Ha!
Ron Garrison
262. Man-0-Manetheran
Jcon - Sounds better and better! Now if we could only get Wetlandernw to come dressed as Cadsuane, it would be perfect!
Barry T
263. blindillusion
Lannis, some of us *cough*theGabblycrowd*cough* are making shirts.
Marcus W
264. toryx
Thanks for the b-day wishes guys. It's not as belated as I was to Freelancer and Wetlandernw; mine was only just yesterday.

I have to admit, they're making me not feel the passing of another year quite so acutely as I would otherwise. I'm only staring at the approaching 40's, myself. ;)

Anyway, interesting how often things come in threes...
Jonathan Levy
265. JonathanLevy
Glad you guys enjoyed it :)

jamesedjones @ 249
LOL re Joline - I hadn't thought of that! :)

subwoofer @ 256
The donkey ears for Thom and Noal's horrible (though unstated) fate betray the influence of Jerome Bixby's short story "It's a good life". It's easy to find online, if you feel like reading it.
Lannis .
266. Lannis
@ blind: re: shirts... ah, yes, I think I caught a glimpse of Samadai's design via FB. It looked cool. :)
Jay Dauro
267. J.Dauro
How about

Leigh's Literate Loonies

(seems to fit)
268. Freelancer
You know, it really isn't nice to be making Wetlandernw out to be Cadsuane. She's barely 15% of the Green's age, besides which I don't think she'd be a Green to start with. A Gray with a side of Brown, I think.

Now, while that line of thought is going on... I'm too tall for Bashere or Tam; too little hair for Logain; too much hair/beard for Damer Flinn (and recent reviews of the historical threads seem focused on times I've issued wounds, rather than Healing). Perhaps Gareth Bryne? Wait, and suffer Tairen fish references all day long? Nonononono. ::stare::
Roger Powell
269. forkroot
Ah, but Freelancer... like Gareth Bryne you married well. (This I know from what she did for you last year, along with other testimony from you.) Granted Bryne and Siuan haven't had the ceremony yet, but it's a done deal unless one of them buys the farm.
Thomas Keith
270. insectoid
Fork @258: It actually got up to over 110°, if our thermometer is to be believed. Very unusual for this part of SoCal at this particular time of year, wouldn't you say so, Free? (Or should I be addressing you as Gareth? ::flees::)

J.Dauro @267: I like it!! LLL FTW! ;)

Sandy Brewer
271. ShaggyBella
Sub, with the little Pup, watch out for the "uncles" bad examples. The little ones watch and absorb Everything!

For the multiple Name Day celebrations, I will bring the chips and Bowl of the Winds (7 layer dip) . Hopefully there will still be some cookies left.
Wayne Wilson
272. stylusmobilus
@191 Freelancer

LOL. Only the big fish, they spend a couple of years in, then come back out and write a book or do a movie.

@all those noting the weather. Thanks. Now I know. Last night I was listening to November Rain and wondering how cold it was getting over there. Sounds like America is like a big Melbourne ATM- all over the shop.

@242, JohnathanLevy....BAHAHAHAHAHA.

Happy Birthday, Toryx.

These chapters are a good reminder of how Mat just rolls. He's in total control, and the poor bloke doesn't realise it.
Tricia Irish
273. Tektonica
Toryx: Happy Birthday to you too!! So sorry I missed it!

Sub@234: I asked the question and then jumped on the road for the day. Dang! Congratulations! Don't worry....none of us think we are mature enough until we have to be. You'll be fine! Yes, you will have to stop swearing, as the pups are sponges, but please stay a kid at heart. That's a good thing, as you also strike me as a very responsible guy. You'll be great! I'm so happy for you! Picked out any puppy names yet?

Ehnate@238&9: Welcome to the Big Ramble with Leigh's Literate Loonies! (Thanks J.Dauro!) And the Bunker.
Party tonight for many birthdays....and just because.

JonathanLevy@242: Wow! I'm not sure I could like Mo anymore as a snotty fifteen year old! Very funny.

Terez@246: I want to meet you too! I'm so excited to meet my cyber friends in the flesh person. (That just sounded sooooo wrong.)

Man-O@260: Aw, thanks....it was so great meeting you too....more Beer of the Red Hand, please! Did I/we all convince you to come to Jcon?? ::Fingers crossed::

Home tomorrow night from a great two weeks wandering around Texas and New Mexico......5200 miles, lots of great BBQ and TexMex, and incredible Art....especially in Houston at the Menil, and in Marfa at Donald Judd's studio. (Google Marfa/Donald Judd) I'll try to be more substantive in the future, I promise. I have tried to keep up with some of the threads! There are so many now!

::waves at Sam and the Spear Sisters:: Talk soon!
Alice Arneson
274. Wetlandernw
I was just telling someone that I was going to stop being so addicted to the comments here... and then y'all go and remind me why I'm so addicted! And how nearly impossible it would be for me to stop! Oh, I do wish I could make it to Jcon - it would be so much fun to meet you all face to face instead of screen to screen. *sigh*

FWIW, I've toyed with the idea of doing a Cadsuane costume... it would be a lot of fun. But really, Freelancer is right - I'm not a Green at heart. Definitely Gray - with Brown embroidery. :)

Happy birthday, toryx!!

And thanks, all for the chuckles, giggles, guffaws and awwws. What a fun place to hang out. And hey - virtual food is at least fat-free... and it's a good thing too. With my willpower, I'd look like the female version of that picture Freelancer linked. :)
Thomas Keith
275. insectoid
I would love to meet all of you in person, but that's dependent on whether I can ever go to JordanCon.

Wetlander @274: Thanks for that image! O,o ::goes in search of brain bleach::

Oh yeah... Sub, make sure you get a dingle ball for the mini-woofer! :)

Eric Hughes
276. CireNaes

:::AOL voice activated:::
:::AOL voice deactivated:::
Claire de Trafford
277. Booksnhorses
Wow - internet goes down and then we're up to silly number posts - Free,Wet and Toryx have had a birthday (very Happy Belated Birthday) and Woof is going to be a dad - hope it's a small litter!

Best wishes all
Chris R
279. up2stuff
Tek @273

I know Subwoofer is a dog, but "Tweeter" would be a good puppy name/screen name and tweeters always compliment subwoofers.
Ethan Harris
280. eeh
Baha, thanks CireNaes and Tektonica!

On a word association tangent: AOL ruled every cereal box computer game and I dug one up from years ago called Chex Quest, probably my all time favorite next to the We're Back! game ^_^

Congrats on the people who recently had birthdays and the guy who's going to be a da' soon! (Btw, it annoyed me (and probably unjustifiably) that RJ had them say "da" rather than add a "d".. hm)

And @ 245 -- I'm engaging!! waha
Elena Vaccaro
282. EarthandIce
Ahhh! Don't check in, and the count goes up and up and up.....

Happy belated birthday to everyone and welcome to The Red Hat Society for Wetlandernw.

Sub: congrats on the addition. Yes talk to the child most of the time as you would an older one, but there are times to get funny. And no, they do not always sleep all the time. By the way, you have a lexicon of swear words that will raise eyebrows, but not in the usual way. Blood and bloody ashes does not get the same response as some of the other more colorfull epitaths.

Sub @ 182: I grew up watching John Wayne movies as well as other westerns, and that scene at the end of the clip has to be one of my favorites. I always wind up laughing at everyone in the mud!!

And many of those, shall we say, people more used to texting than communicating caused me to start coping and pasting into Word so I could correct the many spelling errors. Works on this fourm, but the Mazalan is a bit different. Still stops my eye when it is coulor instead of color.

White chocolate chip cookies anyone?
Chris Chaplain
283. chaplainchris1
@242 Jonathan Levy - my favorite fanfic ever! *guffawing* "I don't want a healer, I want to play on my xbox!"

@226 JDauro - oatmeal blueberry? OooOoh! I've never even *heard* of that. It just...got...INTERESTING! Oh, and wait, blueberry *cheesecake*. Ah well...diet starts tomorrow.

In other news...aw. A little wooflet is coming.

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