Mon
Apr 12 2010 11:27am
Buffy Season 8, and What Makes a Series Good

Throughout my college years, I’d watch my sister squeal every Christmas as she unwrapped another Buffy DVD set. I didn’t know much about the series, but I was filled with that obnoxious self-importance that comes from having decided to be an Academic Who Reads Serious Things. I tried to have a conversation with my sister about Buffy.

“So,” I said. “It’s funny?”

“Yes, but—”

“I don’t like funny.”

“It can be sad, too. And sweet, and sexy—”

“And there are vampires, right?”

“Yes. You see—”

“Sounds pretty silly to me.”

She sighed. “You have no clue.”

Almost ten years later, my eyes fiery holes in my head after having stayed up until 4 am watching Season 2, I gave her a call. “You were right,” I said. “I had no clue.”

I watched it all. I couldn’t shut up about it, not even to my students. I signed up for Team Spike with zeal (if you know what’s good for you, don’t ever get into a conversation with me about this). I cried at the end of Season 5 (and a few other times, too). And I felt a little lost when I finished the last DVD of Season 7. 

So of course I, like many, was delighted when Season 8 came out in comic form, under the (supposedly) watchful eye of Joss Whedon. I’d gotten back into comic books after a long hiatus, and had been turned on to Y: The Last Man, so I was thrilled to see Brian K. Vaughan had signed up for an arc (and his Faith-centric arc still probably remains my favorite in the comic series). I even wrote a letter to the editor, and gasped a little when I opened up an issue to see that it had been printed. I was enthused. I was sold.

And then...I got bored. I’m sorry to say it. I really am. I dropped off somewhere around the Harmony issues (or maybe it was the Oz-has-a-puppy-and-Willow’s-jealous issue). I found myself doing what I do when I know a series is dead for me—I checked the internet to see what had happened to the characters since I left them. 

Lately, a memo by David Mamet has been making the rounds among my writer friends, and it is mostly very smart and applicable to all writers, not just screenwriters. Essentially, Mamet is trying to teach the writers of The Unit how to write plot, and how to make something dramatic. I do wonder, though, if there’s an over-emphasis on making viewers want to know What Happens Next. Because it might make writers focus more on the WHAT than the WANT. I kind of want to know what happens next in S8, but I obviously don’t care quite enough to read it. So somehow you, the writer, need to make your reader/viewer CARE. I think the problem—for me—is that too much happened too fast in Season 8. I lost the character depth, and so fell out of love with the characters and series.

I’m going to pick Season 8 back up, give it another chance, and will let you know how it goes. In the meanwhile, please tell me: what is it about a series (books, TV, comics, whatever) that keeps you going? What turns you off?


Marie Rutkoski is the author of the young adult fantasy novel The Cabinet of Wonders and its sequel, The Celestial Globe (published on April 13, 2010). Both books have received starred reviews from Publishers Weekly, which described the first novel as a "heady mix of history and enchantment." Her novels have been or will be published in eight languages. Marie holds a Ph.D. in English literature from Harvard University, and currently teaches as a professor of Renaissance drama, children’s literature, and creative writing at Brooklyn College. She lives in New York City with her husband and son.

22 comments
Chris Long
1. radynski
May I make a suggestion?

A while ago I decided to make the switch from reading comics in the monthly format, to reading them in graphic novel form only. That decision was made mostly for practical purposes, but it was perfect for when Buffy started.

Every six months or so I get a new book, which has a complete story arc in it, along with some one-offs occasionally. I get to re-connect with the Scooby Gang, and it is a brief but fun romp through another cool story.

Why don't you try doing that?

It seems to me like you're bored with the series in the same way people get bored with serialized television. At many times throughout the series, a string of episodes just won't fulfill your desperate hunger for MORE in the way that a rabid fan may need it to. This is only exascerbated when someone comes to a series late and then watches endless hours "catching up".

I'm guessing the same problem happened here. The stories aren't any worse, you're just experiencing them in a different way.
Teresa Jusino
2. TeresaJusino
I think you're being a bit hard on the series as a whole. Granted, there have been some slow story arcs - "Wolves at the Gates" comes to mind - but I think it's very much picked up since then! And there are some outstanding standalone issues. Issues #5 and #10 are favorites.

Have you been reading the trades, or the issues? Because you say things have been happening too fast, and as I've been reading single-issues it seems like everything takes forever! :)

However, I don't know how I feel about this Twilight business. Verdict is still out on that. But the bottom line is, there were entire seasons of the Buffy TV show that weren't great (can someone say Riley??), so ups and downs in the story should be expected, I'd think.
Josh Davis
3. YoSoyElJosh
I apologize. Wrong thread.
j p
4. sps49
What turns me off (and on)? Hard to quantify.

I have to enjoy reading it- don't let the presentation get in the way of the story.

I have to be interested in the plot. Characters aren't enough.

If a book is too long, and if I have to wait too long (this is why I haven't progressed beyond Donaldson's Fatal Revenant beyond the revenant's appearance; having trouble following what's going on doesn't help) for each installment.

Series' can be restarted after ending, if they are good enough, as evinced by Cook's Black Company sequels after the Big Bad was killed.
Marie Rutkoski
5. Marierutkoski
TeresaJusino, I was reading the issues, and I suppose what I meant by saying that things were happening too fast is that EMOTIONAL things were happening too fast. But you're right, of course: there are low moments (Just Riley? I'd say most of Season 4!) and great moments in any series. And there definitely have been great things about Buffy S8 (just one example: the standalone issue about the Slayer posing as Buffy. Great story, beautiful last line).

Radynski, I think you're right. I will pick Buffy S8 back up again, and when I do, it's trades for me!

Thanks, sps49, for the thoughts on series!
mordicai
6. mordicai
I stopped reading at exactly the same point. & now Brad Meltzer is writing it? Not a writer I feel I need to chase down the rabbit hole-- I can't trust his cliffhangers after Identity Crisis.
Alex Brown
7. Milo1313
The whole Harmony thing is weird, but season 8 is still pretty good as a whole. Even the show had it's random eps, and I think of the comic the same way (and can therefore excuse the less-than-flawless tangents).

What I CAN'T forgive is the waste that is Angel season 6. It is one of the worst comics I've ever read and an absolute abomination and a hex on the tv show. I was Team Spike when it came to Buffy's romantic life, but Angel was always my favorite. I even liked his show more than Buffy's, but I am so annoyed and put off by the atrocious comic that I haven't picked it up since the horrible Spike-themed tangent a few volumes back. Holy hell, is it terrible. That Joss hasn't even lifted a finger to participate in it - and that he's allowing this insanity to continue unabated - is one of the few things I will always hold against him.
Marie Rutkoski
8. Marierutkoski
Hello, Mordicai. Nice to see you here.

Milo, what was so bad about Angel S6? Just curious. I picked up the first issue and just wasn't tempted further. I liked the show all right, mostly because of Wesley. I've got to say, I think Joss is at his most genius when it comes to "redemption" character arcs (Wesley, Faith, Spike). And S5 was great (Spike! Illyria!). But the hook just ain't deep enough in me to have given S6 a real chance if the first issue didn't impress me.
Alex Brown
9. Milo1313
Marierutkoski @ 8: Well, for one, Joss didn't have anything to do with season 6. He's only giving cursory approval to the storylines, but isn't involved at all in the actual development and execution of the stories themselves. And whoever that idiot is who is writing the comics (I haven't even bothered to remember his name) has obviously never seen more than maybe the last 2 eps of season 5 because he clearly has no idea how any of the characters would act or what their personalities are or their histories and relationships to each other. It's as if he went trolling around some fan-fic site when he wanted to know something about a character. It's very poorly written, the illustration is amateur at best, and is about as uncanonical as the worst fan-fic. I'm forcing myself to read them, but only out of a sadomasochistic hope that maybe they'll get at least marginally better.

They don't.

If you do want to read them, go to your library or pick them up and read them in the Borders or Barnes and Nobles cafe, but don't waste your money on buying them, lest their crappiness infect the better comics on your shelf.
Alex Brown
10. Milo1313
Teresa @ 2: How can you hate on "Wolves At The Gate"? C'mon! It had Dracula in it! And Xander as his Igor! It's a Dracula-Xander love affair! They're so cute! I could totally do with a spin-off with just them, Dracula as a whiny old man and eye-patch Xander...so adorable :)
mordicai
11. Sihaya
Ugh. I just read the latest "Twilight" episode. Yeah, I have stuck it out through some thinner bits. And "Ugh," is all I can saywithout being spoiler-y.
Ashe Armstrong
12. AsheSaoirse
I'm going to get through to issue 40 and the end of season 8 and decide if I'm going to read season 9 if there is a season 9.

Angel season 6 is...there are moments but mostly I just keep reading cause it's Angel. Connor's a little too upbeat too, it's weird.
Mur Lafferty
13. mightymur
I'm with you. Couldn't stomach either Angel or Buffy in comic form. I loved Fray, loved Joss writing for X-Men, but both comic stories lost me. Both series ended on such final notes that when picked back up, so much had changed it was hard to find my footing.

That, and in Angel's world, Connor was back. *shudder*

Glad I'm not the only one.
Alex Brown
14. Milo1313
I think it was Roger Ebert who tweeted that memo...can't remember where I got it, but I read that as well. I bookmarked it and added it to my growing pile of writer-related notes. The man speaks the truth, he does.

mightmur @ 13: *shrugs* I was never one that was bothered by Connor. I always really liked the twist with Connor and Cordy (that being said, a lot of it was wonky because Charisma Carpenter got knocked up and wanted to leave...the season was supposed to be spread out over 2). But I frakking HATE Angel season 6.
Leilani Cantu
15. spanishviolet
I quit sooner than you ... I found Buffy in comic form just not as appealing.

I liked the Faith storylines and the other-slayer-as-Buffy issue too, but shortly after that stopped bothering. I think it was the storyline where Xander became interested in one of the Slayers, because I knew from past Whedon experiences exactly where that was going. And then it did. He wasn't even writing the comic then, and it still suffered from the same predictability in regards to romances. Ugh.

Also, I watched the show when it was first on, and still haven't quite forgiven the 7th season for the long, slow slide of my fan-love from Bright and Burning, my One True Show, to What The Hell Was That? My box set collection remained incomplete for a long time - I consigned the last season to the same place as the third X-Men movie. Not in my personal Canon! And since the comic takes place right after it, it had an automatic handicap in its race for my affections ...
mordicai
16. EllieAngel
Stories are only compelling when they have good characters facing tough choices that reflect who they are as people in the face of important stakes.

In the TV world, Season 1 of Battlestar Galactica is my primer. That show hit it out of the park and never looked back. Season 1 of Veronica Mars was good, too.

Anyway, back to Buffy.

Buffy peaked for me at the end of Season 5. There were moments here and there after that (the musical episode, etc.) but while I appreciated the thematic material they were trying to work with in Season 6 (adult-life-mess, depression, etc.), Season 7 diluted the focus and made me not care. Buffy became a jerk, the slayettes were annoying, etc.

How many times can you save the world before it gets old? Emotionally, it was never going to get more powerful than Buffy's choice to die for Dawn WHILE saving the world.

I've enjoyed moments of the comics (particularly enormous Dawn and the Faith stuff), but Buffy's central metaphor (surviving life as a superhero is like trying to survive life as teenage girl/young woman) ran out of juice and Joss & Co didn't find an apt one to replace and revitalize it. I think that's partially because it meant changing who and what Buffy (the show and the character) was about.

I don't find Season 8 Buffy hugely recognizable, though some of the covers were amazing. I tend to read the graphic novels rather than individual issues for reasons the first commenter mentioned, but I no longer have the burning desire to know what Buffy's going to do next. She no longer resonates with me in this form.
Marie Rutkoski
17. Marierutkoski
As I said, I haven't read Angel 6, so can't comment on Connor in that, but I did like the idea of him in the TV series-- not necessarily him as a character, but as a narrative device. I really felt the gut-wrenching tragedy of losing a baby, then discovering the loss of a son's entire childhood, then discovering he's an enemy. It made the two of them working together in S5 very poignant.

Spanishviolet, I think I may be the only one who enjoys S7. I mean, it's not great television, but I love the Spike scenes (see: my aforementioned allegiance to his team). Of course, fans' issue with S7 (aside from the annoying Potentials) is how Spike takes over the whole show, but I think that's a symptom of the fact that there wasn't a lot left to do with Buffy's character, and showing her angst over being a general wasn't wholly believable because she'd been the Scoobies leader already for so long. One of the things I DO appreciate about S8 is that Buffy's willing to get her hands dirty-- I loved finding out that the Slayer Base was funded by a bank robbery. This is genuine and believable character development (ditto her fascinating romantic fling).

Another thing that was great about S7: Andrew! He really works in S8, probably because his character is so sympatico with the realm of comics.
Marie Rutkoski
18. Marierutkoski
Hi, EllieAngel-- just saw your comment. I think you're on to something with what you said about S7: the thematic focus wasn't strong enough, or didn't resonate as well as it could have. In theory, it was a good focus: the empowerment of all women, not just Buffy. But the appeal of the hero is that he or she IS singular, and this poses all sorts of emotional complications. And since Buffy was also Everygirl, we always new that her story was, on some level, the story of every young woman, metaphorically. So literalizing that through Slayerizing the Potentials didn't have the punch it could have, because the metaphor was already there, and perhaps more appealing as a metaphor.

And, of course, you're right: emotionally, it was never going to get more powerful than "The Gift." Still, I'm grateful for S6 and 7.
Sara Ellis
19. saraellis
I loved Season 7. 5&6 were my favorites of the entire series, but I thought 7 was very strong. My only significant gripe with 7 was Willow's new quasi girlfriend from the potentials. She had no presence, came off very affected, and didn't seem the type Willow would go for at all. She made me itchy. I'm not sure a new girlfriend was even necessary. It felt like a last minute band-aid that didn't quite stick.

I really liked how Dawn got to grow, and her moment with Xander. What would we do without Andrew?! That was a creative and surprisingly effective story and character arc.

The idea of female empowerment COMPLETELY worked for me. As did the way things resolved with Spike and Buffy. Heartbreaking, but felt true.

I got your back on this one.
mordicai
21. EllieAngel
Don't get me wrong -- Seasons 6/7 were still better than most of the crap on television and I would rather watch an unsatisfying episode of Buffy than a lot of other things.

I think the overall quality of Buffy's first five seasons speaks to a lot of the dissatisfaction many long-time watchers experienced with the shifts later in the show. It's just hard to make seven of anything that's consistently awesome.

The reveal that she spread her power was interesting (love the kid with the baseball bat) but it wasn't as integrated with the rest of the season's themes as it might have been. The villians were also either too lame (The First) or too literal (Evil Priest Mal, despite the efforts of the delightful Nathan Fillion).
Michael Ikeda
22. mikeda
Trying again...

Marierutowski@17

Being the leader of a group of friends (as Buffy was and is with the Scoobies) is very different from being a general.

Plus, Buffy KNOWS that some of the Potentials are going to die. Whereas before when it was just the Scoobies she could tell herself that everyone would survive.

saraellis@19

I like Kennedy. She's exactly the sort of girlfriend Willow needed at the time (and still needs). Someone who loves her and supports her but also stands up to her.

(Stormwreath says it better than I can at his livejournal. Go to his "meta index" page and click the link titled "Why Kennedy Was Possibly The Best Thing Ever To Happen To Willow")

One quotes from the essay:

"Kennedy makes it clear from day one that she's not going to let Willow push her around. But she also clearly cares about her... when Willow is running off in self-hate and embarrassment and the Scoobies are letting her go, it's Kennedy that takes the initiative and doesn't let her isolate herself from everyone again. (Frankly, I think there are a few other characters in the cast who could do with a Kennedy of their own...)."

(Stormwreath also notes both here and in other postings a certain similarity between the personalities of Buffy and Kennedy.)
Marie Rutkoski
23. Marierutkoski
Hi Mikeda,

Point well taken, but I didn't mean to suggest that being a general and being the leader of the Scoobies are the same thing, simply that they are similar, and making Buffy into a general wasn't quite enough in terms of character development, because it was just an elaboration on something we've seen for years. Turning her into a slightly Machiavellian general in S8, however, is something fairly new, since one of Buffy's consistent qualities throughout the show is that she will be noble until the cows come home.

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