Thu
Sep 24 2009 10:30am
Listen to Chapter Two of The Gathering Storm!

In conjunction with Macmillan Audio, Tor.com is happy to bring you an exclusive listen from Chapter Two of Robert Jordan and Brandon Sanderson’s The Gathering Storm. 

You can listen to the entire second chapter from the upcoming audiobook release of The Gathering Storm now, by using the audio widget after the jump. This excerpt is available only on Tor.com—and you must be a member to access it! If you’re already a registered user, simply log in to read the first chapter. If you haven’t registered yet, we’d love to have you—as you can see, there are perks to membership. Signing up is free and only takes a minute. Fill out this form to get listening right away. And don’t forget to share your thoughts with others in the comments when you’re done.

277 comments
Joe Walters
1. josepph
ug im at work... i cant listen, why cant i read? :-(
Joe Walters
2. josepph
oh nevermind, the audio book ppl are selling the chapter 2 audio... so that explains why its not posted to read i suppose... how am i first and second?
Joyce Tan
3. corenne
i suppose Tor is promoting their audio book
Richard Fife
5. R.Fife
It actually really isn't that bad to listen to, and I'm not a fan of audio books. I'd personally imagine the decision to use the audiobook, though, was just to give a little more pizazze to the marketing than just saying "here's chap 2 the same as chap 1".

Anywho... woo, go Egwene!
John Chen
6. killkli
The audio book series is awesome. One of the best reading I've ever heard. I listened to them almost every night!
Paul Skrade
7. skradepa
I love the audio books but they're so expensive... Thanks for making this publicly available!
John Sloan
8. johnsloan
Awesome... I'm just about to start KoD in audio to finish out the series just in time. The readings are incredibly good for anyone who hasn't given them a chance or hasn't given audiobooks a second chance since the quality has jumped, I'll load up my iPod with the Prologue and first two chapters for ready listening prior to the TGS release so I can start off ahead.
Alec Coquin
9. bloggeratf
This sounds like it is more RJ then Brandon. What do you guys n girls think?
S Diller
10. CuenDiller
whether RJ or Brandon, this chapter is well done. Go Egwene...Boo Elaida!
Lyndon Hott
11. hrprogn
Very well done chapter. Egwene is really impressive here.
Richard Weeks III
12. DayTraitor
I don't know if i want to listen to it before it comes out. i bought the prologue and to listen to it is just a teaser. I can't wait for it to come out. I have listen to the whole series and they are excellently done. I have also bought all the hard covers because i like it so much.
Jeff Fullmer
13. jlfullmer
I am a big fan of the audiobooks. In fact, I am listening to KOD now to get prepped for TGS. I listen in the car during my commute. It sure beats the Phoenix traffic reports!

@5 & 11 -- Too right! Go Egwene. She is awesome in this chapter. Her inner strength and determination are amazing. Regardless of her personal discomfort, she has one goal - bring Elaida down and restore the tower.

Actually, I guess that is two goals ;-) Bring on TGS!
lin mei
14. twicemarked
I wonder if this is an indication about the meeting between Rand and Tuon. The kneeling part may actually come to pass. If Egwene can do this then maybe Rand could also do what is necessary.

In Ch. 1, Rand also said he is looing for what he could, not what he wnat any more.
Andrea Ortale
15. andreaortale
"So when you beat me, you beat the Amyrlin Seat and that should be amusing enough to make us both laugh" What exactly is Egwene saying here? That obeying Elaida by beating Egwene is somehow a victory over Elaida? Silviana, as she herself says, cannot do otherwise, I fail to see the irony here.
Aside from that... great chapter, great voice acting and thanks Tor.com and anyone else involved for giving us this preview while we eagerly wait for the book.
Douglas Steely
16. Scotty
That was cool I did not expect her to go that route, but it was smart
Kerwin Miller
17. tamyrlink
this'll be the first time ive listened to anything -let alone WoT- in audio book format. it cant be that bad can it? im about to find out...

(it took me like 15 tries to get onto the site so im not really gonna complain too much)
Deepak Sudhakar
18. deepakshadeslayer
wht does the jump mean???i didnt get any link to listen to the audio.wht shld i do?
Casey Knodel
20. nathgar
First chapter of an audio book I have ever listened to. I've toyed with the idea of buying the WoT audio books before, but my incentive is greater now. I found this listening to this chapter to be rather interesting and enjoyable.
Albert St. Aubin
21. staubina
Wow Great chapter. Sounds very much like RJ
WHITE RABBITT
22. rabbitt83
that was totaly awesome
egwene u rule girl
Rachel King
23. theraisama
The two readers for WoT are -amazing- I got into audio books when my mom had an eye surgery and couldn't read for a while... been hooked since. And its much easier to listen to a book while at work than read. >.> lol
Andrea Konesky
24. Zaela Sedai
I didn't like the fact that it said 47 min and was only 25!!! BUT YAY! AWESOME CHAPTER!
Hugh Hill
25. ghenjei
THANK YOU

it does sound more RJ than BS, but well done. it might've been the reader's voice, but Elaida seemed even more histrionical (sp?) than RJ portrayed her in KOD
aaron
26. hankman73
@deepakshadeslayer after you log in, just click on the play button.


Very good chapter, was an interesting shift in tactics.
Kerwin Miller
27. tamyrlink
and it wasnt that bad. not bad at all actually. the lady has a nice voice.

my favorite line: "Tell her to beat you like she's never beat a woman before, Heal you on the spot, and beat you again!"

oh the laughter lol. cant wait to read that part in print!
Amir Yoeli
28. Betterthenyouknew
I want to be clear, I will take anything to do with TGS in any format, but...

I didn't like the reading so much. It wasn't bad, but, just not for me.

I think it's got to do with the fact that I like to figure out how to pronounce names on my own, and I enjoy my own reading pace.

I liked the chapter though, and I figure Egwene is up for a hell of a fight. Though Elaida is making her life a whole lot easier.

Couldn't help but thinking what makes the Aiel laugh at pain?
Maiane Bakroeva
29. Isilel
So when you beat me, you beat the Amyrlin Seat and that should be amusing enough to make us both laugh

Well, it is hardly unprecedented for an Amyrlin to be beaten - Sylviana has done the honors for Elaida herself. Egs may not be aware of it, but she was told that the Hall has been known to impose penances on various Amyrlins.

And Sylviana will start on the non-Red Sitters the next day, I imagine. I guess that she'll need multiple Healings herself shortly ;).
Does the MoN do anything besides beating folks? Shouldn't she at least try to learn to know and advise novices and Accepted? Maybe teach a few classes to that end?

It is a pity that Egwene is still dead-set on the Oaths. Well, I hope that once she discovers that the Oath Rod can be imagined and used in TAR she will finally wise up. It is nothing but a hobble for the AS and something for the BA to hide behind. They should be able to instill morals in initiates strongly enough without this crutch.

Also, I do find Egwene's pain at the condition of WT a bit strident. And convenient how it allows her to completely disregard physical suffering. But still - awesome!

And wow, Elaida from an unfriendly POV looks really crazy. I mean, her own and her loyalists POVs do her no favors, but this!

So, was Alviarin returning from capturing Yukiri and/or Doesine? Also, wasn't she normally beaten in the mornings in KoD?
mo ali
30. surgio98
I, for one, am grateful. This is awesome. Which editors give away so much before the book is released. There are times when marketing and what the audience wants are overlapped; and this is one of those times.

@25.ghenjei:
Firefox has built in spell check Ghenjei, it makes life much easier.
-------------------

Shameless plug:
The Potential of Zero
I'm a new author myself. Even though it's non-fiction it's still great piece of work(-in-progress.)
Wendy Churchill
31. LadyTaurean
@15. andreaortale

She is saying that she is the Amyrlin Seat no matter what Elaida says, becaues she does not accept that Elaida says she is a novice. THAT is the irony, so Silviana is spanking the Amyrlin on the Amyrlin's (Elaida's) orders...
lorraine corrales
32. mzlorraine
I love it! I was thinking that Elaida was going to start using Compulsion on the Sisters to make them obey for a second there, though. I wouldn't put it past her.
carl
33. ccsolid
Awesome. Just awesome. Seriously, I don't want any more breadcrumbs, I want the whole loaf!
Christian Paul
34. naitsirhc
This was interesting to listen to... a few of the names were pronounced a little differently than I think of them in my head (Nynaeve, Tar VAL-unn, etc.)

Great chapter overall. It's a lot more difficult to determine that this is a Brandon-written chapter than a RJ-written one, when you're listening to it and not reading it. In fact, if I didn't know beforehand, I would think this WAS a word-for-word RJ-written chapter.
Joseph Blaidd
38. SteelBlaidd
I have chills.

Egwene has learned the lesson that Rand is so busy strugleing with, Pain is proportionate to our careing. For thoughs whose caring extends beyond themselves the pain of the body is nothing comparied to pain of the soul. She also knows "what must be endured can be endured."

Lots of Christ imagry in this. What is the pain of 39 lashes and a crucifiction waighed against the sins of the world the bearing of which caused "even God the greatest of all to tremble because of pain and bleed from every pore." There is also Egwene as the Servent Leader.

Matt. 23:11 But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.



Loony prediction: After the the reconciliation, Egwene will order herself birched as proxy for the punishment of all the Sisters who had rebelled when Suian was deposed.

Meidani may be able to squeeze through a loophole and tell Egwene about the BA hunters.

I wonder what Cannoli is going to make of this.

P.S. Have we heared of Kharagin Macunar(sp?) before the name seems familliar?

Also Katarine(known DF) is wearing Moradin's colors.
Erika
39. Siuanfan
Ahem. I have only one thing to say about this.

*SQUEE!*

That is all.
Luke Patenaude
40. AngelHawk
This reading isn't as impressive as I could hope. This is definately a promotional for the rest of the audio books, and the new one, of course. I just can't wait for the literature to be released so I can read it!

Blood and ashes, Elaida continues to flaming surprise me with her stone-blind foolishness!

And good of Egwene finally learning to embrace the pain!
Pete Pratt
41. PeteP
Having never listened to a WoT audio book, listening was interesting, but I much prefer reading.

Given that, it was a very interesting chapter, with RJ's voice strong, though I thought I picked a phrase or two that did not fit.

Elaida is unhinged by her taint with Fain. I like how Eg realizes that she is not in a battle with Elaida, but in a struggle to save the White Tower.

The Forsaken and BA have so hard to destroy the WT. Eg still does not know her true enemy, but she knows the battlefield at least.
Nolan
42. Dissodium
I am so looking forward to listening to this but i have a hard time focusing when i have to listen to it. Im in class and have to wait till i get home to read it uggg im so impatient for it.
Maiane Bakroeva
43. Isilel
Yes, parallels and juxtapositions with Rand are interesting indeed.
Rand, when taken prisoner refuses to communicate with his captors, kills some Warders, gets stuck in a box, has to be rescued and becomes crazier and harder as a result.
Egwene tries to communicate with her jailers and convince them of the error of their ways, earns their respect, takes whatever they dish out and eventually will bring them to accept her as their leader. Without going crazy in the process, one hopes.

Meidani may be able to squeeze through a loophole and tell Egwene about the BA hunters.

I hope that the BA hunters hear about Egwene's intentions and decide to make contact themselves. Particularly since I suspect that Alviarin has just nabbed 1 or 2 of them.
Dana T. Costa Jr.
44. King_Fate
This definitely the first part of the audio that truly felt like it was written by RJ. Not that I have anything against Sanderson mind you; it just feels like Jordan.

The audiobooks are great. I drive a lot so I couldn't re-read the series this time (my ritual when a new book is released), so I got the Audiobook from Audible.com and its been a great way to experience the series. Its WAY cheaper to get the book from there than anywhere else. Be sure to use the option to buy a years subscription in advance so you don't have to wait a month to get a new book. Audio for all 12 books for 149.50 is pure win.

p.s. The Mistborn Series from Sanderson is read by the same guy who reads male POV chapters in the wheel of time audiobooks.
Nea_Rosheen
45. Nea_Rosheen
I dunno but it sounded super to me! Very good job
Erika
46. Siuanfan
Hearing it on audio is definitely different. When she said Leane's name I had no idea who she was talking about. She said Lee-AH-nah, and I've always read it as Lee-AYN or Lee-ANN.

And I pronounce it Egg-WHEN instead of Egg-WAYNE and Ee-LAY-duh instead of Ee-LIE-duh and SWAN or Si-WAN instead of SOO-ahn. Pretty much the only ones we agreed on were Silviana and Katerine. :D
Jonathan Lemerise
47. jonlem
For those of you who just experienced an audiobook for the first time and enjoyed it, you know only the half of it. The WoT series has all been done by Kate Reading (the woman you just heard) and Michael Kramer, they trade off depending on the main character in each particular chapter or section. Kate Reading is quite good but Kramer is even better and it is certainly worth checking out further if you enjoyed it.
Lauren Roundy
48. jemron
Brilliant! I like Egwene more and more!

"Squee" is about right.
Bill Siegel
49. ubxs113
I got a lot of flak for complaining about them charging for the prologue so let me go on record here saying, this is freaking awesome!
Thomas James
50. skinnybattlecow
That gave me chills. Loved it, loved it, loved it.
Roy van Dalen
52. royvandalen
I just heard the audio chapter two, and i have to say i really loved it. The prologue and chapter one are also very good. I can wait for the rest. Tor thanks !!
Nea_Rosheen
53. mikes04239
I need more. This is my vacation week and I can listen on the computer, but I need the full book on cd, so I can listen it my car driving to work. That is how I have listened to the rest of the series multiple times and am waiting to ride with the golden crane. Come on, let's ride.
JT Richardson
54. eurandlander
It was great, but this chapter was clearly in a different voice than the rest of WoT -- not mine! It was odd to hear someone saying the names that I've heard (incorrectly, it often turned out) for the last 10 years. Once I adjusted to the dramatic gender and accent shift from my previous narrator, I loved it!

Now I'm considering getting the earlier volumes on audio -- would make for some nice distraction from the treadmill!
Jacob
55. PsycoRift
Even though I have read/listened to this, I plan on re-reading when the book comes out. Am I the only one?
Brian Vrolyk
56. vyskol
Yes, the audio books are incredible. I particularly enjoy Michael Kramer's readings of the Matt POV chapters.

As for pronunciation, I for one am more than happy to have some guidance on this front. When reading these books to my son, it's always a struggle to pronounce many of these names out loud.

And on content... Wow! This, even more than the prologue and chapter one has left me desperate for more. I can't wait!
Brayton
58. btown
This was written by RJ for KOD but it was decided that it (the dinner with Elaida) would fit better for the next and therefore is a hold over from KoD.
Ben Bryner
60. NegaDruid
WOOHOO! What a wonderful day indeed! Thank you Tor! Please please please continue!
Nicole Santa Maria
61. little_minion
I got all tingly listening to this chapter.

"Squee" sums it up. Thank you, Siuanfan.
M
62. Ciete
My lunch hour at work has never been so grand, and not to mention its my B-day. Many thanks for this chapter, it went well w/chocolate cake!!
Matthew j price
63. Truthpanda
Thank you Tor for the teasers! between this and the thirteenth depository, my WOT obsession is getting plenty of fuel to get me through the next month. I don't care who the chapter was written by, it was excellently executed. can't wait to read more about the symbolism in the decorations or the mural from 13depository.blogspot.com
Matthew Haase
64. Indagator
@43 Isilel

But Rand's capture and Egwene's current detention aren't really analogous situations. Rand's abduction is much more similar to when Egwene was captured by the Seanchan, and there she DID nearly go crazy / break.
Brian Vrolyk
65. vyskol
Egwene continues to grow and become more and more awesome. However, the whole "Rand must be guided" attitude makes me want to throttle her. Not that he isn't royally screwing things up... just that... well... I don't like the attitude. :P

Aaaand.... Looks to me like some foreshadowing... of... Elaida wearing an a'dam. That'll be sweet to see. :)
Hugh Hill
66. ghenjei
55/PsycoRift
I will definitely re-read in when paper comes back. However, thank you TOR for puting this up.

A) Huge way to build buzz. Any teasers about what the next move is going to be?

B) It's refreshing to know that I've been mispronouncing the names in my head for the last 17 years. I think I'll go on pronouncing them "eg-WEE-ne", "eh-LAY-da" and "ni-NAG-ve" (poor attempt at humor for my favorite love to hate character).
Bryan Cogswell
67. shmoo
@64 indagtor

@43 Isilel

But Rand's capture and Egwene's current detention aren't really analogous situations. Rand's abduction is much more similar to when Egwene was captured by the Seanchan, and there she DID nearly go crazy / break.



Yeah. Gotta agree with that. Eqwene has a power that Rand didn't have... she CAN excape (or tell people to make gateways and come grab her) - something she has not allowed to happen. But, that option is something that Rand didn't have. She can also see the progress that she is making which allows her to put up with the beatings. Because something good is coming from them... Rand had no such luck. He was beaten just to be beaten (and sure he killed some warders and whatnot)...


@65 Agree on the "Rand must be guided" - i love it. Is there anyone (Mat?) who doesn't think that they could be doing a better job than Rand? Or that he needs this advice or that advice... They are lucky he just doesn't say "F U all - Lanfear was right - you think you are so damn special do it yourself. I'm taking my ball and going home." Or something like that..
Erika
68. Siuanfan
Agreed on the "guided" bit. It was the only part that made me pause in my Egwene-loving fangirl squealing and roll my eyes. Jeez, Egwene.

Jeez, EVERYONE. Enough with the guiding BS, can't anyone ever say "Rand needs support" or "Rand needs backup" or "Rand needs his friends"? The only people that come close are Min and Cadsuane, and both of them have slight flaws in their support. Cadsuane is a bully (I like her but she's a bully) and Min always has him so worried about her safety that he can't really appreciate the support for what it is. Not her fault, she'd rather he *didn't* worry so much, but there you go. I thought Perrin would be Rand's stalwart, but he went to such a dark place when Faile was captured, I don't really trust him anymore. Well... I trust him, but I don't still count on him as being Unquestionably-going-to-do-the-right-thing Guy.
Nea_Rosheen
69. skyhawkafm
It was my first audio book too, but i think it was of great quality
nevertheless Brandon has done justice with RJ up till now
and also i like the way Egwene character is developing
Nea_Rosheen
70. Resplendent Indignity
Boo. Egwene chapter.
GoldenEyes
71. Ric
>! ....the waiting ...the teasing ...ohh the waiting and the teasing.... I WANT THE BLOODY BOOK!!!!
Pansy Limes
72. plimes
I'm loving the sneak peeks, impatiently waiting for the book. I've pre-ordered the book but will be getting the audio version as well. Read first because it's faster, then listen. It is easier to get into the audio version on the way to work.
Dru O'Higgins
73. bellman
That was excellent, and I don't like audio books.

@ 24 Zaela Sedai - it took me three tries before I got the total 48 min.
Colm
74. colmoh
That's the kind of laughter Rand needs alright.
Joseph Blaidd
75. SteelBlaidd
This was a great way to counter balance the root canal I had this afternoon :P.

On the guiding of Rand, remember that in the world of WoT is that Women are the ones assumed to be competent by default. Rand is male, males need guidance. This is a mirroring of Rand's "protect all women" hangup.
Maggie M
76. Eswana
This was my first WoT audiobook, also. And YAY!

Oh man, prior to tGS I was a book release "purist;" ie, I never bought prologues on ebooks and avoided spoilers... but this time I can't help myself!! and in thirty three days we'll get to read the whole thing!

Egwene is Made of Awesome. Period.

I still disagree with her on the Oaths, but I can sort of understand where she's coming from. The AS are from a diverse group of people who, other than their ability to channel, would hold little in common. The Oaths are all they have. Foolish as it might be to bind themselves unnecessarily and cut their lifespans short, without the Oaths the AS aren't any different from the rest of the world. I hope, however, that after the Breaking Egwene and the remaining AS become more like the AoL Aes Sedai- true Servants of All, not manipulators and schemers. The AoL Aes Sedai had professions outside their identity as Aes Sedai, and maybe that's the way to go.
Dave
77. ushkdavid
:( every time i stop thinking about how i cant wait for this book to come out they bring out something else that reminds me. Feels like its making the wait worse lol
Erika
78. Siuanfan
I feel your pain, ushkdavid.

Quick, someone recommend me a big hulking book that will occupy me for the next couple of weeks! I already dragged my Shogun out of the closet but I doubt it'll last that long...
Cigi
79. cpetrell
Wooo Hooo!!
Go Egwene!!! She just got way hotter in my book! Taking over the tower one Red at a time. lol I love it!! I can't wait for the book release.
Nea_Rosheen
80. Rounder84
Okay lol now give us chapter 3

I was very impressed by Egwene's fortitude. This next month needs to fly. Of course, does anyone else have the problem of dealing with the thought that many of us are going to read this book in a day or two (I might take a day off work and do so), then have to wait another year for more? Gah!
Rory Sims
81. Roodlenoodes
I love the Audio books, have listened to them all. At the end of some of them is a short interview with RJ, where he talks about listening to his own audiobooks in order to get someone elses interpretation of his work.

If it's good enough for RJ, it's good enough for me.

I just want Egwene alone in a room with Elaida for 5 minutes, without the forkroot tea...... then we will see how long her temper holds.
Galen
82. Apollinar
Go Egwene, I can't wait until she kicks Elaida's ass.
Noneo Yourbusiness
83. Longtimefan
Thank you TOR for another chapter. It is helping with the anxiety and waiting. :)

I will only buy the paper version however because the enunciation bugs me a bit.

Naw-ve-ses. (Novices) Maybe it is just the computer voice and the real audio books are different. I probably mispronounce all the names in my head anyway but after 19 years I am kind of used to the names the way I read them.

It is great to get a bit more.
Kurt Lorey
84. Shimrod
Egwene is now Aiel.

Sorilea, Amys and Melaine will be so proud of her.
William Fettes
85. Wolfmage
Wow. Just wow. I listened to this before going to bed last night and I reckon that's arguably the best Egwene point-of-view chapter in the whole series.

I love the fact that Egwene finally realised she didn't have to actively undermine Elaida to topple her, and I loved her decision to stay silent rather than be confrontational with Elaida. IMO it showed a real maturity and wisdom we haven't seen from her yet.

Isilel @ 29

"Also, I do find Egwene's pain at the condition of WT a bit strident. And convenient how it allows her to completely disregard physical suffering."

Ok, maybe her umbrage at the state of the Tar Valon was a little over the top, but I do think it really fits her whole-heart shtick as a character. Not my cup of tea as a personality - but it works for her. Also, bear in mind that she would be far more invested as a result of being Shadow Amyrlin for so long. She knows she could do a better job and that Elaida is betraying her duties and potentially endangering everything.

I also think Egwene's shift in attitude about the pain was a good development from her approach in KoD. This to me is more satisfactory than just using the mantra "drink in the pain" over and over. Indeed, while I liked the KoD chapters, they did seem to me to falsely equivocate between being a tough leader in the enemy's camp and just being snarky, unbending and dropping truth bombs left and right. Whilst it was still kinda cool, I didn't think it was a real strategy. So I'm really pleased to see we're moving beyond that phase to more of a strategic plan that isn't all about Egwene's pride and Elaida's folly.

--

For me, it was basically par for the course to hear Egwene bang on about the need for guiding Rand; irritating but nothing new. What struck me as more interesting was her musing about Elaida's failures to 'contain' Rand and her failed capture attempt. Egwene's preparedness to embrace those as 'cons' or at least her lack of reaction to them, are rather more alarming.

Now, I'm sure if you're already favourably disposed to Egwene you will just brush that off as her strategically tracking the dissemination of information that will likely undermine Elaida. It's just another tool to help bring Elaida down. But it was interesting that she didn't recoil in her thoughts about the horrific nature of the kidnapping, when she turned her mind to it. Neither did she think about the disaster that would befall the world if Rand didn't get away. Maybe it goes without saying, but she is supposedly Rand's friend and the Wise Ones, after all, believed all the Aes Sedai involved were all da'tsang. I do not think they could ever think about it so clincially without being outraged at the betrayal and lack of honour. But Egwene didn't bat an eyelid about it.
Alice Arneson
86. Wetlandernw
Siuanfan @78 - Try The Count of Monte Cristo. Nice and long, but with some action to it. It won't last the full month, but it will go a while. After that... I'd recommend War & Peace, but I've never had the courage to try it myself. Maybe go look at RobM's list of stuff-to-read-to-catch-up-on-the-last-decade-or-two to distract yourself a little. *sigh* Only 33 days to wait....

Or you could start again with EotW and see if you can get through it all (again).
AL THOR
87. AL THOR
post number 38. God dying for a sin someone else comitted is the most ridiculous theory ever. it smacks of irresponsibility. if anyone has to die it has to be adam and eve for they are the ones who sinned. not me

anyways, elaida is seriously killing herself. she will be deposed with or without egwene
Erika
88. Siuanfan
Hah! I really should try starting over with EotW and see if I can speed-read my way through it in 30 days. But Rounder84 @ 80 makes a good point as well... after reading the next book, we're going to have to wait another year for the next one! O_O

If I weren't dying to get my hands on this book, I'd wait for the paperback anyway - that's what I did with Knife of Dreams. I find hardcovers to be ridiculously overpriced and difficult to carry around - I want to be able to read my WoT on a train or in a car (not driving!) or whenever I get a few minutes to spare. But I need to read this book NOW NOW RIGHT NOW, so I guess I'm buckling down and getting the hardcover. But waiting another year will be ouchie.

NOT TO MENTION that there are 3 books over 3 years, but the Mayan Calendar says we may not have that long! If the world ends before this series ends, I am going to be SOOO pissed...
T C
89. Freelancer
Egwene has had personal contact with two non-Aes Sedai groups of channelers; Aiel and Seanchan. She also has reliable secondhand information about two others from Elayne and Nynaeve; Windfinders and the Kin.

The distinction between Aes Sedai and those other groups are the Oaths. Since Egwene is the Amyrlin Seat, she MUST represent Aes Sedai in all dealings. To do that requires the Oaths. She accepts that. She will not require members of the Kin to take the Oaths, but she will not see Aes Sedai separated from them. As she says, something will have to be worked out regarding multi-centenarian Kinswomen who wish to become sisters. Add to that her wish to allow Aes Sedai to be released of the Oaths into a retirement where they can survive much longer than they would if they remained bound.

It is all too common an opinion of Egwene that she is power-hungry and rigid. I see the opposite. She sees where things work and where they don't, and she is willing to press for change.

While the variety of different channelers is on the table, there is never any mention of windfinders' ages. We know about channelers of 400-plus years in the Kin, from the Seanchan Damane, and possibly among the Wise Ones, but it never comes up regarding the Atha'an Miere.

I agree with some who say that one source of Egwene's resolve is knowing she has an out in an emergency, that she could get into Sheriam's dream and call for a Traveler to extract her. It's always easier to bear a burden when you know it can be escaped. At the same, she gives no indication that she's falling back on that out, even considering that the wrong move in the Tower could cost her life. She is doing what she believes is right, and accepting whatever cost is required. There is much ji in this.
Sam Mickel
90. Samadai
suianfan,

the Mayan world doesn't end until 2012, so we are good if BS brings one 2010 and2011
Alice Arneson
91. Wetlandernw
Wolfmage @ 85 - I rather liked the way the "drink in the pain" think was worked (especially after reading whosit's post above that this chapter was moved virtually untouched from KoD long ago, if true). The time she spent trying to do it, even though she didn't really get it, made her comprehension at the end of this chapter MUCH more meaningful. I don't think it would have had quite the impact if she'd been able to do that from the start. I also loved her breakthrough that it wasn't about her pride, or her at all - it's all about the higher goal of the unity of the Tower.

Parenthetically, the Tower has been seriously out of whack for quite a few centuries, but Egwene hasn't been part of the scene long enough to know that. I'm loving the way Ishy's meddling over the centuries is (I hope) about to be undone because the Tower had the amazing good luck to get an Amyrlin who is unspoiled by the years of indoctrination and can see the ideal she wants instead of just "what has always been." (I'm not sure if that makes sense... a bit run-on, but I think it's grammatically correct.) At this stage, anyway, Egwene is a funny combination of pragmatist and idealist, and I hope she can stay that way.

AL THOR @ 87 - I'm covering my eyes and humming real loud. I refuse to get drawn into another discussion of theology on this forum.
William Fettes
92. Wolfmage
Freelancer @ 89

I agree with your analysis of the Oath Rod situation. I never thought the Three Oaths made all Aes Sedai fools and dupes, just because they were lax in the earlier books about the BA. Sure, they aren't perfect - for instance, I think you can still murder someone with a kitchen knife - but they do form a kernel of what it means to be an Aes Sedai in the current Age. The Tower has its problems, but I don't think those are about the legacy of the Oaths and I think they can be remedied independently.

Wetlandernw @ 91

"Wolfmage @ 85 - I rather liked the way the "drink in the pain" think was worked (especially after reading whosit's post above that this chapter was moved virtually untouched from KoD long ago, if true)."

I didn't mind it the first couple of times, but it started to get a little trite for me through sheer repetition.


"The time she spent trying to do it, even though she didn't really get it, made her comprehension at the end of this chapter MUCH more meaningful.
I don't think it would have had quite the impact if she'd been able to do that from the start."

Oh, I agree. I'm just happy with the progression forward. I wasn't trying to say the journey was unnecessary. :)

"I also loved her breakthrough that it wasn't about h"r pride, or her at all - it's all about the higher goal of the unity of the Tower."

Yes, this was brilliantly done. You know I've been hard on Egwene in the past, but I really liked her here, and I reckon she is fully ready for the responsibility of the stole and a unified Tower. Loved it!

"Egwene is a funny combination of pragmatist and idealist, and I hope she can stay that way."

Yeah true. The only remaining barrier to a full love-in will be reconciliation with Rand and the Black Tower.
Daniel
93. unklebeavis
This kind of reminds me of that one scene in "Good Will Hunting" between Matt Damon and Robin Williams. RW: So what did you choose?
MD: I chose the pipe.
RW: Why's that?
MD: Cuz F*** him, F*** him.
Alice Arneson
94. Wetlandernw
Wolfmage @ 92 - I wasn't trying to argue - just bringing out what I thought you might have meant but left out(or something like that). I've only read KoD twice, so I probably didn't get as annoyed with it as I might if I'd read it more.
Bill
95. Cwolf21
I have read the series through 4 times. This is the first time I have listened to an audio. I enjoyed it.

Egwene - you go girl!
James Jones
96. jamesedjones
Definitely wish Tor had given us a text version of this chapter. I think the chapter was excellent, but the narration was awful. The narrator's emphasis of "the soup" destroyed my enjoyment.

And the speaker made commands sound like pleading everytime Egghead told the gray sister to "Send for me." But I could have gotten past that if it weren't for... "the soup."
Glen
97. Glexn
That’s the first time I’ve ever listened to an audio book, and it’ll certainly be the last. I got about four sentences in before that fingernails-on-a-blackboard narrator got to me. The reading is too melodramatic for me, too. It’s a shame, why can’t we just read?

Because they want to sell audio books, I suppose that’s why we got the free taste. That is certainly my very last foray into audio book land. =]
William Fettes
98. Wolfmage
Not sure why people are disappointed in the audio. You realise the same people have done all the previous books, right? IMO Kate does a fine job, and Michael Kramer is even better - one of the best in the business. In fact, the only person who probably tops him in versatility is probably Stephen Fry who does the Harry Potter series audiobooks.
Fahad
99. Sultanfa
I just love the title of the chapter. "The Nature of Pain"

After hearing the chapter, the title seems very profound.
Jeff Lebowski
100. thedudeabides
I liked it! Go Eggy :)

Among other things, I thought a few minor things were interesting. Katerine Alruddin (publicly Red, secretly Black) was showing her true colors (her dress was red slashed with black...which happen to be Moridin's favorite colors...interesting). And Alviairin was late for her appointment to Silviana. Has "Danelle" returned or revealed herself? Or another FS? Can't wait to find out!
Nea_Rosheen
101. OldMan44
Thanks Tor,

I enjoyed both audio chapters that you have given us very much. Am very much looking forward to buying and reading the book next month. The audio books do seem to give the WoT series an added dimension and help to bring the characters to life, at least for me. I thought that both the male and female narrators (who are quite good by the way) give the story’s characters a “voice” that has been lacking from reading alone. I must give some serious thought to getting the entire series (when complete) in audio format to go with my books.

Thanks again Tor, for making the first 2 chapters available to us. Well back to my rereading of TPoD for me.
Alice Arneson
102. Wetlandernw
Wolfmage @ 98 - Now I do have to disagree with you. The Harry Potter audiobooks were done by Jim Dale, who is indeed an incredible narrator. (He's the only reason I know Harry Potter - probably wouldn't have noticed the books at all if we hadn't heard a preview of him reading it on NPR. We own none of the paper versions, and the whole series on audio.) I would dearly love to hear Stephen Fry on an audiobook, though, because he's very versatile as well as talented.
Bob Rose
103. Master Buddy
Thanks TOR for the teaser. Awesomely done - BS and/or RJ. Narration was excellent. Hard to beat Reading & Kramer. I was so happy they would complete the series they started. Thanks Harriet and TOR!!
Nea_Rosheen
104. shannonmk
OMG...I just don't know how I will make it another month. I started over with New Spring 2 weeks ago and fear I will have a week to twiddle my thumbs...
Kamarile Sohma
106. KamarileSedai
That was....incredible. I can't wait for the rest of the book! Egwene is shown as the embodiment, the spirit of the tower. I hope she succeeds in her quest! Elaida shouldn't be executed, she should be stilled and made to serve in the kitchens for the rest of her days. She's right, execution is too quick a punishment.
William Fettes
107. Wolfmage
Wetlandernw @ 102

Yes, Jim Dale is probably the better known of the two within the US market. But I love Stephen Fry's version. I tried one book with Jim but had to change it. But my opinion is probably influenced by the fact that I started from the beginning of the series with Stephen Fry's version - and it's probably unfair to change mid-stream. His voice is like liquid gold to my ears.
Benjamin Moldovan
108. benpmoldovan
Personally, I've heard one of the previous audiobooks read by a man, and it wasn't that great. I didn't like his pronunciations at all, either. It was an abridged version (EOTW I think), which didn't help either. It rather sucked. Compared to that, this was darn good.

Great chapter too, by the way. Egwene rocks.
Nea_Rosheen
109. swordforwatersake
I was so disappointed with Michael Kramers "new" voice, that it was a great feeling to hear that Kate Reading made an effort to return to the Wheel of Time. For those that don't know, they are married, and have narrated the entire series. The slight variations and accents they use really add to the series, and RJ said he used the audio books to check his writing, so I am quite sure he approved of their accents, performance, and nuance.

Michael Kramer truly struck out in the first parts of TGS. As a long time listener, Kramer's voice is totally off. It is DEAD ON to the voice he used in Mistborn, as I learned when I purchased the audio version to get used to Brandon's style. Obviously it must be a method "thing." Kramer must not listen to his past performances to gather his tone and cadence, else he would not have used the exact voice I had just heard in Mistborn, which were you familiar, would know they are very different.

I have wondered in my head whether Kramer will maintain his Mistborn voice, or whether he will find his WOT voice as the pages unfold.

If you want to understand what I am talking about, go to audible and listen to the samples of the other WOT books, then Mistborn, then TGS. You will be disappointed in Kramer too.
William Fettes
110. Wolfmage
swordforwatersake @ 109

I kind of see your point, but I do think you're being overly pessimistic. Yes, I suppose I do think it sounds a bit closer to his Mistborn effort. But I didn't think it was immersion breaking, and I don't think it's fair to really pre-judge the whole work when we've only heard Chapter 1. We haven't heard him most of the male leads (including Mat and Perrin), or a sea of other prominent cast members. We also haven't heard him do any accents.

Rand has always been close to his natural inflection, and voices do change over time. I'm sure he will sit into it by the early chapters, and do the same awesome job he has done with all the other books.
Joe Brubaker
111. watcher_i
I knew the meeting between Egwene and Elaida wass ging to be memorable, but, well, WOW. Rand is trying to be steel, and he thinks about in Chapter One, but Egwene is.
AG Navarro
112. Brisingr3.0
Go Egwene!! I did not think the book would finally be released. I can't wait to have Elaida stilled and all the Black Ajah killed (if possible). Conquer what is rightfully yours from the usurping Elaida, Egwene!!!
Thomas Nelson
113. iburnbrass
The books can be downloaded fairly cheaply from Audible.com... my library had the CD's too for those who can shell out the cash to buy a copy.

And yes, Kramer & Reading rock my Wheel of Time world! I like to read the books a few times first, but after that, they really help flesh out the story for me. Rand's trip in Rhuidean wasn't linear until I heard it read to me. (And my house gets REALLY clean when I put these on and forget about time!)

The voice was perfect, no matter who penned this, either BS or RJ nailed it! This was the same White Tower I saw in KoD.

It makes me wanna go Ninja-style into the nearest bookstore and get my copy. October 27th be damned!
Thomas Nelson
114. iburnbrass
Oh and Siuanfan:

"NOT TO MENTION that there are 3 books over 3 years, but the Mayan Calendar says we may not have that long! If the world ends before this series ends, I am going to be SOOO pissed... "

That's so funny. ^-^ Now I'm actually worried about 2012! You suck.
Murphy
115. LockeNKant
You know, Elaida is making a mistake by thinking a fourth oath will fix everything. Simply requiring an oath to obey the Amyrilin leaves too much room for personal interpretation. Egwene even points out several times that she is the Amyrilin seat.

Some of the Aes Sedai could be sub consciously tricked into obeying Egwene simply because Egwene acts and embodies the Amyrilin seat. Elaida however is a simple tyrant who stole the title.

I wouldn't be too surprised if that's how Elaida tears herself down.
Maiane Bakroeva
116. Isilel
@64 Indagator:

Rand's abduction is much more similar to when Egwene was captured by the Seanchan, and there she DID nearly go crazy / break.

Rand's captivity was less harsh and humiliating than Egwene's initially, but he never sought to establish any sort of dialog with his captors and was proud of his stony silence. Then he killed 2 warders and the things went completely south.

IMHO, there is a fundamental difference of approach there. Sure, the fact that Egwene had an option of rescue and chose against it was a big moral boost for her - but Rand would have never made this choice. And his ta'verenness may have been a big help if he'd only tried to communicate with his jailers.

Re: Seanchan, I wonder if Egwene's new mastery of herself wouldn't allow her to resist and remove an a'dam if she is ever collared again. It would seem to be as applicable. Wouldn't Tuon be surprised, heh.

Re: Alviarin - I'll say that again, I bet that she has just captured herself some BA hunters. At the end of KoD she reflected how they can't be taken by night because they ward their apartments, so she found a way to nab them during the day.


P.S. Re: the Aiel approach to suffering, I wonder how this squares with Amys's admissions in TSR that she was made to blubber for her numerous attempts to escape from WO apprenticeship. Are the Aiel just much better at inflicting pain or is it that only a cause that you are sure is 100% just can sustain you so? Is it why beatings are still admissible for meeting toh? Because if Aiel know that they are in the wrong, psychological defense doesn't work?
Ed Rafferty
117. BigBoy57
Go Eggie, go!

But what's up with Elaida? She cannot be that obtuse, surely - she must have been tampered with by Mesaana to be so blind to what is going on around her.

Wet@102 - how could you not have Harry Potter in paper versions? I love my audio WoT books but they do not come near being replacements for the written page. For example, I found parts of Load of Choss boring to read (Salidar!) but the audio book - my god, there should be a health warning with every download, it's instant coma!
Kevin Hanna
118. Lazlo1985
Egwene is really something else! I wouldn't want to get in her way!

Great chapter!

Cant wait for the book now! Rand's losing the plot, the weathers up the left, walls move, the dead walk the streets, the forsaken are still lose, there is basically a darkfriend at every corner and the light only knows what else is to happen!

THE LAST BATTLE IS COMING

WOO!
vic vic
119. borderlander
I don't speek English very well but "WoT" is so interesting that I must to listen this chapter ;)
Thanks!
Andrew Lovsness
120. drewlovs
116. Isilel
Rand's captivity was less harsh and humiliating than Egwene's initially, but he never sought to establish any sort of dialog with his captors and was proud of his stony silence. Then he killed 2 warders and the things went completely south.

Ummm... Elaida was planning on locking Rand up, properly shielded, until the Last Battle. We saw that to Elaida, Rand is an aberration; Egwene was a woman who eventually would be a powerful Aei Sedai if they could "save" her.

When the Last Battle was finished, they would then gentle Rand and forget about him - Elaida's PoVs made that clear. The Aei Sedai were under orders from her to create meekness in him so he would be humble when he arrived.

When he killed the warders, they started beating him; when he was not being beaten, he was locked in a box... do you really think that opening a dialog with these women, knowing what their goals were, would have ANY effect at all?

I think you are really pushing credibility with the "Rand was proud of his stony silence" and thus missed an opportunity that Egwene later had. I'm not sure if you mean to (I respect many of your points of view), but I'm getting from your posts that Rand was partly responsible for being beaten in the first place.

They had no respect for Rand, and the willingness to send warders in to subdue him when he was going postal over Min says a lot about their intentions. In my opinion, the beatings were to be done no matter how he reacted to them. I also could have sworn I read something to this effect, but as I have said previously, my books are packed due to moving.

The Aei Sedai were to have Rand "plyable" by the time they reached Tar Valon; their methods for this end were brutal. They were not belt lashes on his hiny... the beatings were power-wrought by an Aei Sedai that just lost 2 warders. The pain she was going through over this while being allowed to beat the person responsible with the power can NOT be compared to the MoN's punishment of Egwene. Remember, the MoN was extremely fair. The comparision between Rand and Egwene is apples and grapefruit in my opinion.


Edited due to grammar errors and continuity.
Rob S
121. RobSS
Great chapter! I enjoyed listing to it very much. I do hope that it doesn't take to long to take down Elaida.
Nea_Rosheen
122. coriantan
Tor is EVIL!!! The teasers are like a single shot given to an alcoholic while the rest of the bottle is kept just beyond reach!

Thus far, 2 chapters in, I am VERY pleased with the blend of the great Robert Jordan and the impressive work of Brandon Sanderson.
Maiane Bakroeva
123. Isilel
Drewlovs @120:

Elaida was planning on locking Rand up, properly shielded, until the Last Battle.

Well, it was weeks or months until he could have been brought to TV. He could have tried to explain to the sisters who guarded him why it couldn't possibly work. Tell them about various Forsaken, prophecies, ta'veren, etc.
Yes, Rand was an aberration to them, but one who needed to do his bit for their survival.

Beatings didn't begin until Rand killed the Warders and were initially due to Erian's pain and Galina's crush on her. Later Galina decided to keep on to make him pliable, even after other AS became uneasy.

I wouldn't have had any problem with Rand killing Warders in a serious attempt to escape or to provide an escape to Min, but he did it in a fit of temper (understandable, but still), which did neither him nor Min any good.

Could talking have worked once the beatings began? Who knows. Most AS did eventually grow ashamed and uneasy about it, so maybe some may have listened.

I do think that the ways Rand and Egwene dealt with their respective captivities and ordeals are supposed to be intentional juxtapositions. IMHO, YMMV.
john massey
124. subwoofer
Wow, this is setting Elaida up to be like the lawyer from Jurassic Park. She's goin' down and everybody is going to cheer about it. Her funk is spreading beyond the bunker to all over the Tower. Sack of hammers. Oaths of Fealty? Meh.

Eggy seems to be coming into her own. Good on her. Whoops. Was this chapter called "spilling the soup?"

Woof.
James Jones
125. jamesedjones
116 Isilel

"P.S. Re: the Aiel approach to suffering, I wonder how this squares with Amys's admissions in TSR that she was made to blubber for her numerous attempts to escape from WO apprenticeship."

IMHO It was a matter of knowing that you deserved the punishment blended with the Aiel love of shame as a method of discipline. Amys knew she deserved the punishment, and it probably involved a lot more shame. Egghead's punishment was absurd, and could not compare with the pain of TV's destruction. I doubt any Aiel would cry in a similar situation.

Re: Rand vs Egghead

Galina did not make any decisions "later". She went south with the purpose of making him pliable. Egghead has a purpose and a goal. This can be accomplished from her current location. Rand's mission was being destroyed with each passing mile. Egghead is not the DR, meaning she can focus on her little microcosm of TV.

Last, can you possibly imagine Egwene being as calm and collected if Elaida put a knife to Gawyn's throat? She'd probably order the assault of TV as soon as she could nod off.
Paul Lacapruccia
126. Lacapruccia
Shame Egghead isn't dead yet, and we all know RJ doesn't kill any main protagonists. Funny how one can wish someone's death for over a decade and not have that hate put in abeyance for one second. Perhaps the worst character in the history of American Literature.
Paul Lacapruccia
127. Lacapruccia
Yep, even after a break of several year I'll still be skipping POVs from Egghead.
Rob Munnelly
128. RobMRobM
@78 and 86. Yes, I've been continuing my reading binge since late summer.

Read all of Sanderson's grown up novels - loved Mistborn, liked the others. Read Ender's Shadow by Card, because I've always been a Bean fan. Read the first Feist Riftwar series, which I liked but didn't love. Read the Donaldson Gap series which I loved but it is violent and R rated in parts, so keep that in mind as you dive in. I'm almost done with Bujold's Vorkosigan books (up to Memory), which I've loved. Tons and tons of fun. I've also read YA stuff with my kids -- the five Percy and the Olympians series by Riordan, which is light, funny and coming out as a movie in February; the latest book in the Ranger's Apprentice series by Flanagan, which is very well done; and we're in the middle of the second Alcatraz book by Sanderson, which are very very funny. (One minor teaser - all of the people in Alcatraz's family have special talents: one arrives late to things; another falls down; one can get lost; another wakes up incredibly ugly in the morning, etc. Sanderson does a good job of showing how these silly talents are surprisingly powerful.)

Next up will be Connie Willis, RA Salvatore and Weis/Hickman. And continuing my latest re-read, which is presently at the end of CoS, which I will time for late October.

Rob

P.s. I loved Shogun and TaiPan back in the day. Very fun reads.
Maiane Bakroeva
129. Isilel
JamesedJones @125

She (Galina) went south with the purpose of making him pliable.

Not according to Galina's POV from LoC chapter 53 "The Feast of Lights":

"Since that (gentling on the spot) was prohibited, she would have just as soon delivered him to the Tower unmarked, so long as he was reasonably polite"

Nor did she actually threaten to kill Min. Rand's outburst and killing of the warders came from merely finding out that Min was also captive.

Rand was traveling out of the box once they left Cahirien and before that incident. So, yes, he could have tried to start a dialog with the TAS party and attempted to influence them, but it never occurred to him.
He goes into "this comes from trusting AS" direction, stony silence and making himself harder instead. Just illustrates their different mind-sets, is all I am saying.
Matthew Haase
130. Indagator
@Isilel

Do we get a Rand POV before he's put in the box? I don't remember any reference to stony silence towards the sisters, though I'll grant it would be in keeping with his character. However, as best as I can recall he was kept locked up in a (nicely appointed) closed wagon except for brief periods to stretch his legs. Even if he wanted to draw out the sisters, I don't think he had the opportunity.

I also disagree with you on the killing of the Warders. It was clearly stated in LOC that Rand acted because he saw Min and realized she had been captured. Obviously, it didn't work out very well, but it wasn't a fit of temper that provoked it.

Re: Rand vs. Egwene - I wasn't comparing the conditions of captivity (as you correctly noted, I don't think Rand was subjected to punishments until after killing the Warders) so much as the attitudes of the captors. Both the Seanchan and the Aes Sedai thought of their prisoners as less than human. To me, that's the key difference between Egwene's current situation and Rand's captivity/her captivity. The Tower might view Egwene as a child, but a child is still a human. This gives her an opening; you train an animal, but you teach a child. Besides, Egwene has knowledge that the Tower wants. Neither the Seanchan nor Rand's captors thought they could possibly learn anything from their captives.
James Jones
131. jamesedjones
129 Isilel

"Just illustrates their different mind-sets, is all I am saying."

I can totally appreciate that, and thank you for clarifying. But in post 116 it sounded like you were suggesting the possibility that Rand could have "communicated" his way out of his captivity but just turning on his taveren charm. That's what I was responding to.

Of course, hindsight is 20/20, and we all know that the purpose of the plot-hook (I mean, Pattern) was to have a few Aes Sedai sworn to him so he could trust a few Aes Sedai (at least a little bit) to proffer channels for communication after Cadsuane's dramatic entrance (who I still think is BA). :)
Nea_Rosheen
132. BoltWalt
The pronunciations were a big help to me. I for years had been mispronouncing the star Bettleguese and was amazed when I heard the accepted pronunciation. How does anybody get BeetleJuice as the proper pronunciation is still beyond me?
Tess Laird
133. thewindrose
Thanks Tor for making my day:) Yes I broke down and listened to this and bought the prologue.
I never had listened to WoT, it was very enjoyable, and I can see the uses for it - ie exercising, commute time etc.
On to chapter 2. Wow!! It is great to see Egwene really growing into her role as Amyrlin Seat. She is actually getting somewhere with even the Reds!
Elaida - crazier then ever - from the touch of Fain. We didn't get to see the progression of Fains touch on Naill with him being assassinated so soon after it happened. Very interesting. It would be great to see both Elaida and Egwene captured by the Seanchen. With Elaida collered and Egwene able to remove the a'dam on her own. Wouldn't Tuon's eyes pop from that.
Erika
134. Siuanfan
@ iburnbrass - Sorry! :D But seriously... a year? Wouldn't 6 months between each be much more reasonable?

I liked the narration of this, I thought it was pretty cool. I'm pretty sure this is my first experience with an audiobook, but now that you guys mention it, I'd be interested to see how HP comes across on audio. I may try it. The only thing about this one that threw me was the voice she put on Meidani; it sounded like she was swallowing her words. But overall, I liked it.
Rob Trotter
135. shadar
@117 - In Elaida's defence - not only was Alviarin telling her what to do (on Mesaana's orders) - see Shemerin, Joline, etc ---> She had a visit from Fain.

Lets think about it.
Elaida:
* Bats for the light.
* Has been focused on fighting and preparing for the last battle for *YEARS* (see royal house of Andor) - longer than any AS other than Moir/Siuan.
* Is sympathetic to the novices/accepted caught up in the rebellion (see Nyn/El/Eg)
* Recognises Rand is the DR
* Initiated the BA Hunt
* Helped begin the Ashaman/AesSedai bonding circle


Egwene:
* Let one of the FORSAKEN escape
* lied about the Red Ajah / Logain
* Made Rand distrust AS
* setup the innocent people of TV to starve to death (see harbour chain)
* actively working to spread disunity in the tower.



Rand is probably the only character who has to face as much as Elaida does:
* one of the forsaken
* the entire Black Ajah
* Fain
* one of the Supergirls
all actively working against her. And lets be honest -- Rand is much crazier than Elaida. Lets all cut her some slack.
Brittney
136. BrattneyRose
I really hate dial-up... (I live under a rock) It's taking me forever to get the full chapter. :(

I agree that being able to read it in print would be much easier, but I understand why it's in audio.

Actually, I LOVE the audio, but its just taking so flaming long!
Angry Monk
137. rkodeepak
do u have to pay to listen to this??i cant see a play link on my page....
Jordan Martens
138. elessar_elessar
@78 Siuanfan - try Pillars of the Earth by Ken Follett
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pillars_of_the_Earth

@117 BigBoy57 - Part of Elaida's thought processes have been compromised by Fain as we saw in a small POV from him in Lord of Chaos (I think) where he reminiscences on tainting Elaida and Pedron Niall.
Sean Banawnie
139. Seanie
Bratt@136 must be torture....

Shadar@135 to me Elaida gets some slack for Fain's influence , but she was a creep before she ever met him { she was ripe for him} if she was as good as she thinks she is she would have smelled him a mile away.......most of the good she does is by accident or is unintentional. She gets points for her long fight but she gets more taken off for her motives....her own glory....MAYBE she can redeem herself , but she has a loooong road for that and her ego is in the way........If I was team light manager I would trade her for a bucket of rotting fish guts and Weirmon's skidmarked skivvies.
Bryan Cogswell
140. shmoo
@ 135. shadar

Any chance you work in marketing? Or PR of some sort? If not i'm gonna forward your resume on to the WT - as you clearly put the best possible spin on Elaida.

I always stop with the Fain thing. She is tainted moving on...
Pete Pratt
141. PeteP
On the Oaths (since Freelance brought it up again):

The Oaths are a big problem. The Oath Rod is a punishment tool, designed to control channelers. It was discovered during the Trolloc Wars, the same time as Ishy started the BA.

The Oath Rod shortens lifespans and compels one to obey. It can be used coercively, as demonstrated by Galina and the BA investigators, as well as the BA.

The Oath Rod likely came into use due to the BA, but in the reason some might think. Ishy most likely had the BA bind themselves by their Oaths and then got the AS to bind themselves with their own Oaths.

The Oath Rod makes AS weak in battle when fighting humans, as they must be in fear of their lives to channel.

The stated purpose behind the Oath Rod -- to get people to trust AS -- is a complete failure, as everyone believes that AS can twist words so much to tell someone the exact opposite of what they heard.

Eg understood these problems from her experience with the Aiel, but under the influence of Halima, has adopted an absolutist attitude toward the Oath Rod.

The Oath against making weapons has always been silly and is especially bad in an era of the Last Battle.

Given the regular use of the power to hurt people, the AS get around that Oath as well.

So, why have the Oaths? Or even better, [b][i]why have the Oaths said upon the Oath Rod[/i]?

Whose purpose does it serve? The White Tower -- not that much. AS existed before the Oaths and could exist after the Oaths.

Ishy/Moridin etc. -- yes, it weakens his opposition.

Every time someone feels deceived by an AS, it makes the whole idea more useless.

Given that even Aes Sedai think other AS are trying to deceive them at all times, just how well does that Oath work anyway?
Erika
142. Siuanfan
shadar @ 135 Ohhh ho ho I have to get in on this.

Elaida:

* bats for the Light ... or does she? She convinces herself that she does, but she's motivated purely by self-interest, same as the Whitecloaks. She sees a path to her own power through working on the *side* of the light and then convinces herself she's a hero, when she's actually doing more damage than good.

* Royal House of Andor - again, her Foretelling is being used to further her own goal of power for herself. She didn't make that Foretelling public so that people could rally behind Morgase/Elayne, nor did she inform Siuan or any other Amyrlin of that fact... she kept the knowledge to herself and planted herself near them so that she and she alone would be in a position to control them and gain prestige by riding their coattails. I believe her original intention by even placing herself there was that it was a step on her path to becoming Amyrlin.

* sympathetic to the novices/accepted - yes but only because they have massive potential and it wouldn't do to let them get out of her hands or have them stilled. As novices/Accepted she has an out to excuse them from being liable to the rebels and therefore keep them under her control.

* recognizes Rand - along with everyone else. He fulfilled the prophecies; even she can see how big an idiot she would look covering her eyes and saying 'nyah nyah I don't see anything' at that point.

* initiated the BA hunt - actually she initiated a hunt for treason because she wanted to get rid of Alviarin. It was less a point of saving the Tower from dark forces than it was about getting Alviarin to stop (pardon the expression) whoopin' her ass every 20 minutes.

* Asha'man bonding - hey, she sent the sisters there to kill/gentle them, which was a massive failure because she refused to believe reports of their numbers and strength and was too bull-goose foolheaded to appoach it rationally. She only initiated it by accident, could not have foreseen that that would happen, AND her crew ended up on the 'wrong' end of the bond, to boot.

Egwene:
* let Mog escape - by accident, yes that was a screwup, not that she could have predicted a woman wielding saidin would be there and know to free Mog. Mog's capture wasn't her fault - it was Nynaeve's, but they gained a ridiculous amount of info from her and thanks to Eg, one of those bits of info was Traveling.

*lied about Logain/Reds - didn't, actually. Siuan did, if in fact it was a lie, which I'm still not positive that it was. I don't know that we have any proof that Egwene knows Siuan lied (if it was a lie), but even if she did, she wasn't the original one to tell it, and she had to use the tools in front of her or the whole thing would collapse.

* distrust - no she didn't. They did. If you want to point one out, maybe it was Moiraine but I think even Moiraine gets a bad rap. As a matter of fact, the first Aes Sedai that actually scared Rand was Elaida, in Caemlyn.

* harbor chain - ... yeah okay I'm with you on that one, I can't really understand the justification for that, though I'm positive it wasn't to make TV citizens starve to death.

* Disunity - also not true, she's working against the disunity of the Tower, what she's trying to spread is the truth of Elaida's illegitimate actions and unfitness to be Amyrlin. Since Elaida's actions (albeit helped along mightily by Alviarin) have caused the disunity, Egwene's goal would be re-unity... Aes Sedai unified in realizing it's time to kick Elaida to the curb.

So there! :D
Ben Frey
143. BenPatient
So now are they going to release the Graphic Novel version of Chapter 3 next week?

Are there any other formats they could pull out?
Nea_Rosheen
144. moondivatx
Thank you TOR. I was in meetings all day so what a surprise to find this wonderful gift when I finally checked email. An early BD gift as today 25th is my BD!!!!

Kate Reading and Michael Kramer do a great job reading and dramatizing the books. I've listened to all several times. I enjoy their take on each character...if it were just straight reading it would get boring and put me to sleep. I do agree that Michael sounds different for this book, don't know if it's been a long time for him or what, but he is "off" so to speak. BUT as I understand Rand will just get darker and darker in this book could it be he is taking that into consideration for his reading.

Maybe in the next book Rand will learn his lesson. I just hope it doesn't involve Elayne and her babies...Min's viewing of Aviendha with 4 babes and something being wrong about it, makes me wonder: how long will Elayne survive her babes? That would give Rand enough pain to learn his lesson.

Fain's corruption of Elaida is growing and will start spreading to whoever she has contact with that's the nature of his taint. Dark days are coming to TV.

Blessing all ~..~ ^..^ ~..^ :D
Bridget Sullivan
145. Ellid
Steelblaid@38:

"Kharagin Macunar" is most likely Caraighan Maconar

She's the archetypal Green sister.
Sean Banawnie
146. Seanie
siuanfan@142 very cogent...now take a breath ,hahaha
seriously , great points wish i'd had the time to make such a thorough case .good job. agree on every point...and your royal house of Andor point ---Elaida doesn't mind the idea of killing off Gawyn when he becomes too much conscience for her----
gotta love hating Elaida-----maybe she'll pull an Ingtar and go down fighting Mesaana and redeem herself and become the hero she thinks she is......just so long as it's painful..........
mmmwwwwwaaaaahhhhaa
Michael Catapano
147. hoping
Thanks to TOR for the sneak peek (listen).
I've listened to many audio books and thought this chapter was well done. It certainly was well written, whether RJ or BS.

I find it ironic that Egs finds it abhorrent that Elaida is considering an oath of fealty to the amyrlin, when Egs has already done it. It's not on the oath rod but the with the strong oaths given, the effect is similar.

I'm a little disappointed that we have two chapters that do little to advance the plot. Color me impatient.
James Jones
148. jamesedjones
147 hoping

"I find it ironic that Egs finds it abhorrent that Elaida is considering an oath of fealty to the amyrlin, when Egs has already done it."

Is that irony or hypocrisy? Judging by Egghead's history (bullying Nyn with nightmares of rape and catsfern in order to protect her own lie), it was hypocrisy.
Michael Catapano
149. hoping
jej
I'm no linguist. Perhaps both.;)
Were's wetlandernw when you need her.
Holly Finnen-Stewart
150. Branwhin
Siuanfan@88 - naw, the end of the world wouldn't be so bad ... all we'd have to do then is go sit like wide-eyed children at RJ's feet: "Tell us a story!" Hey, if Heaven is anything like TAR, he might be able to *show* us the story!

Wow. Thank you, Tor! I also have never listened to an audiobook - and loved this one. Sat with a beatific smile on my face through the whole thing, actually.

Also, a few thoughts on the chapter proper. I agree with the poster above that says Aran'gar influenced Egwene regarding the Oaths, at least in part. I recall reading that Eval Ramman/Balthamel came very close several times to being 'bound with the Power against doing violence.' Wouldn't he/she/it just love the irony?

Now, Siuan (mistakenly, IMO) has definitely also had her strong influence.

Elaida. Ick. One can almost feel sorry for her regarding Fain's tainting her. Egwene's noting of the changes pointed this up specifically - Fain is like a walking 13-13 when it comes to bringing out the worst in people. That said, she was a jerk all the way through (New Spring!).

I'm hardly a proponent of corporal punishment, though I can accept when it's part of a literary universe as it is here, but who else here *likes* Silviana? I think Egwene may keep her as MON. She certainly seems to be doing a better job than Tiana, though poor Tiana seems a bit overwhelmed by the sheer *number* of her charges.

And another poster above (sorry, can't remember which one/s) noted the difference between Egwene's and Rand's treatment, and how they have each responded.

I do hope Rand learns to do what Egwene has (Aviendha? Rhuarc? Our lad needs help here!), but the note that Egwene's 'punishment' is at the hands of someone she trusts ... there are rules governing its use, Silviana never sets a toe *outside* those rules, and as has been said, she has an out. A disastrous one politically, maybe, but an out.

Could Rand have charmed the sisters on the way to Tar Valon, pre-Warder incident? Perhaps, but I think he's too young, and the way he's had to (chosen to, to a certain extent) deal with things so far haven't developed that side of his personality.

Lews Therin, now - an accomplished, fully mature person secure in his strength and abilities? To say nothing of a politician and good with words (writer)? Those sisters wouldn't have stood a chance (assuming they were dealing with the 'whole' man, and not an emotional wreck - poor thing). It's there, in the Dragon soul, but Rand's been hammered so hard, so young, with the 'can't trust anybody' stick from all different directions I don't think he *could* have done it.

Sheesh ... that has to be my longest post here to date.

Must say another "WOW" and thanks!
Joseph Blaidd
151. SteelBlaidd
Ellid@145:
I knew I'd heard the name before.

THANKS!

JeJ@148
147 hoping

"I find it ironic that Egs finds it abhorrent that Elaida is considering an oath of fealty to the amyrlin, when Egs has already done it."

Is that irony or hypocrisy? Judging by Egghead's history (bullying Nyn with nightmares of rape and catsfern in order to protect her own lie), it was hypocrisy


Um ther is a big diference, Several Sisteres have sworn fealtiy, which is an Oath of loyalty and obediance but, like the Sisteres sworn to Rand, there is a lot of leway in how that oath is iterprated and executed.

Elida wants a strait oath of obediance to the Amerlyn sworn on the Oath Rod which, as we have seen with Pevara, Seaine, and Zarah can have LEATHAL consiquences. Additionaly it would compleatly remove the Checkes and Balances of WT Government.
Maiane Bakroeva
152. Isilel
Branwhin @150:

who else here *likes* Silviana?

She is not so bad, I guess, but I just don't understand what she has to do with actually counseling/guiding novices/Accepted. Egwene even has to trick her into conversation.

Shouldn't it have been Silviana's priority to find out what makes Egs tick (or any charge, really) and work on the basis of that knowledge rather than just whale on her indiscriminately?

I honestly don't understand who'd want to be a MoN, BTW, and why. She spends entirely too much time in her impersonal, dingy study waiting for folks to beat up.
And given how she also has to beat other AS occasionally, I'd imagine a lot of people wanting to get their own back once an Amyrlin changes and ex-MoN has to return back into the normal hierarchy.
And what does she gain out of it? A power trip?

But yes, I imagine that Egs will retain Silviana. And she'd really need a couple of assistants to keep up with a thousand more charges.
Virginia O'Connor
153. Tialin
150. Branwhin
naw, the end of the world wouldn't be so bad ... all we'd have to do then is go sit like wide-eyed children at RJ's feet: "Tell us a story!" Hey, if Heaven is anything like TAR, he might be able to *show* us the story!

Wow - from your lips to God's ears, Branwhin! I got chills thinking of that scene.
Joshua
154. Ashaman Kovan
Did it take anyone else forever for it to load up? I've been sitting here for over a half hour and it still isn't coming up.
Kristina Blake
155. kab1
Wow, thanks Tor for Chapter two, in audio even, my preferred format! Although it took me some time to actually be able to listen to it, it was quite different having to sit still at my laptop and listen rather than driving or cleaning, etc., etc while using an ipod. I think I'd go crazy if I had to listen to all audiobooks this way.

I too am happy that Kate and Michael are back for the reading. I think they've done excellent jobs on all the books. As for the pronunciations, I too remember being jarred at first hearing them on audiobook rather than my own way. but I soon got used to it, and now pronounce everything the way that they do. I think that they are mainly correct and if they were horribly off on everything, I believe RJ would have said something.

As far as the chapter goes- loved it! I liked Egwene's decision to keep silent with Elaida and that we got to see her thought process going up to this. I also enjoyed see Elaida's character and what Fain's touch has done. An oath of fealty? wow- that one's got to be her undoing! I am surprised that it did not causes Egwene to reflect upon the sisters she has sworn to her and comment on the differences between these. I would have expected her to think about how she was planning on releasing those oaths in the future (at least I hope she is planning on doing so).

@Siuan post 78 I agree with elessar @138- Pillars is excellent and long!

also @Siuan post 142- agree. agree. agree. thanks for typing it all out and saving me the time. You put it much better than I could have.

about Katerine- had totally forgotten she was Black. I actually had forgotten this all through KoD- doh! Thanks everyone who pointed this out.
Erika
156. Siuanfan
I missed something re: Fain... when did he 'taint' Elaida? I never recall any such occurrence. I know he was briefly admitted into the Tower and spoke to her at some point, and I know he discovered Alviarin was Black but I don't remember anything about him tainting her. If she's under some kind of influence maybe I can have a little more sympathy for her (but not much because she was unpleasant and damagingly ambitious far before she ever met Fain).
Ellen
157. ellymay
MORE!!! this is as addicting as the one power...i can't wait a month!!!!! Egwene, you're my hero!
Ellen
158. ellymay
Siuanfan...how i've read it is when anyone is around fain, especially someone he is advising, the same taint that destroyed aridohl creeps into that person...

pedron niall - tried to destroy rand in his way, with rumors and armies etc.
toram - rebelled against rand and seemed to have an unnatural hatred towards him, Toram went from fain "advising" him to him doing fains bidding
Eliada - she was always blind to whatever she thought was true but fain fed her silly ways

i think all these people would have eventually done most of what they have already done without fain but i think the taint on fain made them a little mad with their desires, losing any kind of rational

All these people did what they did in the name of the Light seeing the most horrific things as necesary evils to win for the Light(maybe not Toram, maybe he just thought he was doing right for himself)...just like what happened in Aridohl...

i'm certainly no expert but i thought i might could give an appropriate response to your query :)
Bridget Sullivan
159. Ellid
Heh.

I just listened to the whole thing - there appears to be either an inconsistency or just a confirmation of the lack of canon-ness (canon-nicity?) of tBBoBA.

This chapter says that Caraighan Maconar was an Amyrlin Seat, but the list of historical Amyrlins provided in tBBoBA does not include Caraighan's name.
Lisa Burris
161. lisazbwyo
THANK YOU Tor!!!! Go Egwene!!! Elaida is going down!!!!
Mark Stokes
162. Mark_S
So when you beat me, you beat the Amyrlin Seat and that should be amusing enough to make us both laugh

Wow irony and a pun. All rolled up into one.

Now that's entertainment
Venessa Moore
163. scotia
The Padan Fain debate. Does no-one remember Egwene having many conversations with him in the Dungeons in Fal Dara in the 2nd book. Tainted?
Loved this, need more, can't wait.
Maggie M
164. Eswana
@Wolfmage et al: Stephen Fry's HP audiobooks are, in my humble opinion, much more enjoyable than Jim Dale's. This is probably a biased opinion, though, because I freaking love Stephen Fry (he tweets. and his tweets are hilarious.)

Branwhin @ 150: the end of the world wouldn't be so bad ... all we'd have to do then is go sit like wide-eyed children at RJ's feet: "Tell us a story!" Hey, if Heaven is anything like TAR, he might be able to *show* us the story!

LOL. That would be fabulous.

Re Fain tainting Elaida:
Fain is crazy. His crazy is catching. Ellymay @ 158, I like your take on this.
Remember, too, that Elaida was also physically and emotionally abused by Alviarin for a while, and she's a megalomaniac in the first place. Not the most stable person to begin with, and add the factors of her failures in there and yeah... she's ::thisclose:: to cracking like an egg. In fact, I predict that when she's deposed she'll commit suicide. In a very memorable way. Maybe she'll pull a Javert and sing about it first, before diving off her ridiculously high palace tower?
Jacy Clark
165. Amalisa
Branwhin@150... What a lovely idea!

Scotia@163... If Egwene were tainted by Fain's contact, I think it would have shown up by now. Also, don't quote me on this 'cause I'm still at work and don't have the book handy, but I think Moiraine Healed her (off screen). The implication, iirc, was that it was of whatever injury she took when he was released; however, Moiraine had examined Fain and had a glimmer, at least, of what he was. Possible she could have counteracted his influence over Egwene.

Or it could just be an oversight.
Pete Pratt
166. PeteP
Maybe Eg is tainted by Fain, which is well she treats Rand so poorly......
Doug Eggers
167. blight
Actually it wasn't Fain at that point that was the danger it was the dagger that carries the taint and I believe that RJ had stated that only the dagger can pass the taint on, tainted people can't pass the taint onto another person. When Egwene visited fain in the dungeon he didn't have the dagger Mat did.
eric s
168. silverprl1
Who is Egghead?

And about Galina not intending to kill Min, that is not true. There is one sentence where she thinks to herself that they really screwed up by bringing her along, and she should have been "dealt with" before they made their way back to TV.

About the Red and Logain, and the possibility that the story is true, even though Suian thinks it is made up. Of course it is true. Warders cause problems to Black Sisters, even hunting them when they forget to mask the bond. What a better place to hide Black sisters than the Red? Not to mention, the first Black Sister verified by the tower was red. Galina, the head of the red is black, and a whole lot of them did a bunch of false dragon killing at some point in the past. One was Tom's Nephew, who they just gentled, but others they slaughtered. The 3 oaths should not allow an AS to kill men just because they can channel, unless they are black.

We will see Moirane again soon. Where did she disappear to the night that we are introduced to the Dark Friends Secret meeting and Boores? Was she following a black sister or was she at the meeting? Since the DO cannot read minds, and only knows what he is told, is it possible she and Lan cooked up a crazy scheme for her to join the Black to either further a prophecy, know their plans, or try to bring it down from within?

Also about Moirane... When she was still around, dark friends and shadow spawn found them an awful lot, even when the 3 tavieran were not around, or were so new that none of the dark friends new who they were.

On Rand and Crazy... Don't forget that he has entered TAR many times in the flesh, and been though the red door. We only know 2 of the red door prophecies for Rand, and have no idea what might have been placed in his soul for what he lost to TAR in the flesh.

Lastly... Someone commented that "all of the sisters later realized beating Rand was a mistake." This is VERY FALSE. Verin, who used a week version of compulsion on them to make them see it this way. And speaking of Verin, she has been working on this project for 70 years....

Which makes me wonder what Amerlin different people are secretly serving...

Verin - DR for 70 yrs

Elaida - 25 yrs ... although she totally misinterprets her foretelling, ans the royal house of Andor she was actually supposed to think of was LUKE and Tygrain.

Moirane and Suian - 25 yrs, and we only know about the first year and the 3 from the books. What did Moirane do in the mean time.

The Red Sisters - I think they misunderstood the prophecies and went on a killing spree 25 yrs ago thinking that the Dragon Reborn was a man newly awakened to Saidin...

One more thing about Verin and Cads... One of them is Black, but they have the same goals, which is becoming the new irony. Everyone is working to make sure that Rand makes it to the last battle.
eric s
169. silverprl1
# 167... The Shadar Logoth taint is embodied in the person Mordeth. He infected the dagger, or the City as it Was, not the other way around. The dagger is really just a focus point of all that was of Shadar Logath. Fain embodies that evil now. Even without the dagger, those who are surrounded by him turn mean and angry and dark. First the Guards, Later the white cloaks, etc... I'm going to pull a Dad and repeat.... But the City allied with Mon Etherin caved in on itself with fear, anger, suspicion, and jealously because of Mordeth, who got the ear of the King, and convinced the people that in order to defeat the hoards of the DO, they had to be harder, more willing to hurt, and more willing to inflict pain than the DO himself if they were to survive.

Fain is the vessel for all that Shadar Logath was, and has the ability to bring it back wherever he settles, just as the dagger is the vessel for the anger, hate, suspicion, fear, and death of the people who perished there.

(As always, apologies for my spelling... Audio Book editions have ruined me ;-)
Nea_Rosheen
170. keithweed
Egwene's Gandhi-style tactics have become so boring and predictable.I know it's just one chapter but if this is going to be one of the largest arcs in the book,my anticipation just went flaccid.I was glad when I saw it was in audio,but I had a hard time paying attention,I had to keep rewinding just to hear what I missed when my brain went numb,and I'm a fan of the audio-books.I wish major characters were killed in this series,then I could at least hope for a horrid,painful,slow death for Egwene.She is just that unlikable to me.At least I can skip all her chapters because I know nothing will happen.
Birgit
171. birgit
"So when you beat me, you beat the Amyrlin Seat and that should be amusing enough to make us both laugh" What exactly is Egwene saying here?

Amyrlin Seat = Eg's ass

What struck me as more interesting was her musing about Elaida's failures to 'contain' Rand and her failed capture attempt. Egwene's preparedness to embrace those as 'cons' or at least her lack of reaction to them, are rather more alarming.

She doesn't know much about how he was treated. She is called to Salidar before the kidnapping and the Wise Ones avoid telling her about it.

Who is Egghead?

Egwene
Tom Jones
172. tearl
Ellid@159

This chapter says that Caraighan Maconar was an Amyrlin Seat, but the list of historical Amyrlins provided in tBBoBA does not include Caraighan's name.


The list of Amyrlins in the "tBBoBA", covers only the last one thousand years or so from the latter years of Hawkwing's rule til the present.

From the timeline we find Caraighan died over 2500 years ago (373AB).
Gabriel Maman
173. Darkmaman
@sotia

About Egwane being tainted when she talked to Padan Fain, it couldnt have happened than because it was after he escaped that he merged with Morgith. When Padan Fain was imprisoned in book 2 he was just a regular darkfriend with the ability to follow Rand.
Nea_Rosheen
174. LadyTaurean
About the differences between Elaida's and Egwene's oaths....

Elaida is proposing a binding Oath of Obedience. So, basically you would have no choice but to obey anything she says... Jump off a bridge, Attack someone, ect.

Egwene had the Salidar Council swear and oath of Fealty to her... fealty: (in feudal society) the loyalty sworn to one's lord on becoming his vassal. See link
http://encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary.com/fealty

Having the sisters swear fealty to her was just her way of gaining her own faction with the rebels; the sisters Oath to tell the truth meant that they could not falsely swear fealty, they really had to mean that they were loyal to her. However, they did not mean they were bound (as like with the Oath Rod) to obey her. However, as Amyrlin Seat she is due their loyalty so swearing fealty is only a more meaningful way of showing it. It made them really pay attention to her as a leader, rather than a figurehead.

So you cannot really compare the 2, they are not the same. Just my opinion....
Nea_Rosheen
175. LoriMerit
I would like to express three things:

-my sadness that Robert Jordan couldn't see the culmination of his story in print. He was an amazing story teller, who will be sadly missed.

-my awe of Harriet's strength. To do all that she has to ensure the completion of this story, after the loss of a beloved spouse deserves nothing less than every single fan's respect and gratitude.

-my gratitude to Brandon. Picking up this gauntlet was an act of bravery (and beautifully done from what I have read, thus far).
Katie Gibbs
176. ktgphantom
Does anyone know how long it will take before this book is going to come out in paperback? I have the rest of the series in paperback and don't want just one in hardcover. I can't wait for this book!!!
Alice Arneson
177. Wetlandernw
ktgphantom @176 - I have no firm answer to your question, but if its any consolation, I expect to have 11 paperbacks and 3 hardcovers in about two more years. :) IIRC, they usually release the paperback of one shortly before the hardcover for the next comes out. You can queue up to borrow them from the library and buy the paperbacks when they come out, or you can be impatient like me and decide to buckle. On the bright side, at least you know the wait for paperbacks will only be another three years (total) or so.
Nea_Rosheen
178. Wolf27YellowEyes
I am just happy that this series is finaly going forward. it looks like the story will be finished as well at it was begun. can't wait to read it.

ktgphantom... i understand you have it all in paperback, so do i, but you can always buy the hardcover and get the paperback later. i have the all the books on paper and am slowly buying them in hardcover when i see one on sale.
Nea_Rosheen
179. stepper
Light! Yes! *SQUEE* Hoo-HAA! and just for kicks YABBA-DABBA-DOO!
Loved it! Both chapters...though I wanted to slap Rand and Egwene at times (Rand just make Semi talk, she's a woman but she is pure evil!...Egwene...Oi Vey...are the genders ever going to get over the superiority thing!)....but all true to characters...yeah I don't always agree with them, but great stuff was true to RJ, and the frustrating stuff was true to RJ
I'm a happy camper, but feeling some twitching coming on for 10/27/09.
For who wrote it, I'll likely take a day or two off from work myself!
Thanks Tor!
Oh and I love the HardBack books....having to wait right now to get the whole series in hardback, but soon I hope!
Nea_Rosheen
180. Carlin Smith
i've listened to this audio 5 times now... it is impressive! I re-read the eggy arc from KoD a month ago in preparation for this... i must say this did not disappoint!!! I WANT MORE DARN IT! GIVE IT TO ME NOW! *waits* *waits more* *nothing happens* They've broken me! :( that was too easy
Mary D. Conners
181. connersmd
Excellent chapter and bravo to Brandon Sanderson (again) -- Egwene grows as a character and leader, the ridiculousness of (the constant) spanking is faced (and cleverly tied to the many absurd 'traditions" the AS have picked up and instituted over millenium)and plausible forshadowing of the sensible changes that Egwene will make as Amyrlin (if she lives) is referenced. When is Chapter 3 appearing? And how many chapters are there, anyway?
Steve
182. RandAlThor232
It feels like something once forgotten has come back to life. The Wheel of Time in vibrant, refreshing 3D. I feel like RJ himself has reached out to us and said that he's still here, giving us the joy of hearing (or reading) his talents. This was Robert Jordan's work, I have no doubt. No disrespect to Mr. Sanderson. I think he will be picture perfect for the job.

It's like talking to or seeing a best friend you haven't heard from in years. Everything else vanishes and all that matters is that face, that voice, that feeling. Troubles fade and life's worries take a back seat for one moment as you catch up. It's hard to disappear into anything like I can disappear into a good WoT chapter.

Whoever is complaining about 3 more books instead of 1, I say, give me 10 more books! All of the waiting, all of the criticism about the length of the series, and yet here the fans are, foaming at the mouth for what we crave so bad. My friends, I do believe the wait will be worth it.

Loved the line about picking one spot to clean first.

Can't wait. And thank you TOR.
William Fettes
183. Wolfmage
birgit@ 171

"She doesn't know much about how he was treated. She is called to Salidar before the kidnapping and the Wise Ones avoid telling her about it."

Even if she doesn't know about the abuse, the capture in itself is surely enough to warrant a bit more sensitivity. Now, quite possibly there is an earlier reaction moment in KoD or the earlier books, which might provide better context... But lacking any recollection of such a passage, I just thought she was being remarkably blasé about the whole thing - even assuming she is being strategic.
Nea_Rosheen
184. TheLuckyRedHand
Fuck Egwene. She is all sorts of Aes Sedei thinking of controlling Rand. It makes me sick.
Ellen
185. ellymay101
scotia...i believe fain uses what corruption is already in the person...Egs went to fain to help him remember who he was (well who she thought he was) the nice peddler that always came to the two rivers...Egs was pretty sweet and innocent back then and i thought about her being exposed to fain while she was with him, but i think since she had no vendettas esp towards Rand - who she was still in love with sorta - how could fain corrupt her?

maybe there are holes in that theory but it works for me :)
Sam Becker
186. sbecker662
Quite excellent, I wonder if we will have the pleasure of seeing Elaida pulled down by the end of this book.
j p
187. sps49
I am amazed at the viewpoints on Rand's kidnapping.

Come on, he was kidnapped! Talking was supposed to take place at the palace where he was kidnapped. And his captors were led by the Black Ajah. W. T. F.!

If you are abducted, you must take any opportunity to escape. Rand's captors were not taking him to a land of butterflies and rainbows, and anyone participating in such a crime is liable for their fate if the victim fights back.

And there should be no doubt Galina was sent to soften Rand up during the journey. Just because she would rather gentle him immediately doesn't mean she intended to bring him unmarked.
Keith Adamson
188. Tyrunea
"Loved it! Both chapters...though I wanted to slap Rand and Egwene at times (Rand just make Semi talk, she's a woman but she is pure evil!...Egwene...Oi Vey...are the genders ever going to get over the superiority thing!)....but all true to characters..."

Rand/Semirhage and Egwene/Rand, all it does is continue the split between the genders that started in like the first 10 chapters of the first book.

Just go back, read the first 10-15 chapters, and you'll see the gender split from there, and it will stretch all the way to the end of the series, mark my words.
Pete Pratt
189. PeteP
Fain already had the ability to taint by the beginning of tGH. Remember the two guards??????

Eg was just being stupid and igorant visiting Fain in Fal Dara. Now, did Fain taint her?

At the time, Fain was extremely focused on Rand, so making Eg hate Rand would be a worthy goal for Fain. It appears as though Fain was very successful on this goal (though it was already happening before they left Two Rivers).
Joshua Myatt
190. hollowpoint372
Why, oh why couldn't it have been published in text? I could have read it twenty times faster than that audio book. Listening to it rather than reading it, experiencing the chapter for myself, was just painful! I can't wait for the book to come out...in print!
Birgit
192. birgit
About Egwane being tainted when she talked to Padan Fain, it couldnt have happened than because it was after he escaped that he merged with Morgith. When Padan Fain was imprisoned in book 2 he was just a regular darkfriend with the ability to follow Rand.

He merged with Mordeth in the middle of the first book when he followed the party to Shadar Logoth and was imprisoned in Fal Dara at the end of the book.
KAMEN
193. kamenchanov90
People, please help me out! I cannot hear the audio! The site doesn't load it... I tried everything and it is still not working :( Do I have to have any other programs to watch this?
Ochuko Anigboro
194. Ochukoalthor
First chapter one now two. How bout a an early Haloween treat say like the next 3 chapters lol? I am restless with waiting. Okay stop teasing me how bout ch. 3 in two weeks?
Nea_Rosheen
195. acesn8s
Anyone else find it interesting that Silviana was reading a book on the ascension of the Amyrlin Seat? It won’t be too long before she realizes that Egwene has a legitimate claim to sisterhood, if not the Amyrlin Seat itself.

The WT Aes Sedai might have option between which proclaimed Amyrlin they wish to follow and, if Elaida forces an oath to the Amyrlin – whose orders must be obeyed.
Nea_Rosheen
196. pawnman
Can we now get a chapter with Mat?
Werner
197. Archan
thanks alot for the audiobook chapters! they are great! I prefer them over reading, cause I can go to bed and listen withthe lights off before falling asleep, thats nice.
Philip Alan Smith
198. AlanS7
After listening to chapters 1&2 twice, I think that Mr Jordan would have written them differently, but also that BS has got the essence, particularly with Ch.2 (as a Brit, Ch.1 reads oddly). Ordered my copy from Amazon already
Erin
199. Chani167
When I first read the books, I didn't like Egwene until she became Amyrlin. Then she started to grow on me. Then I read KoD, and she jumped onto the list of my favorite character. She was definitely in my top 5 then. And now... after hearing this... she is beginning to rival Mat/Tuon as my favorite character. It's funny how rereading can change your opinion of a character. It was so much easier to like her in subsequent reads after reading through KoD. I hope she continues to be amazing in this book.
Henry Loose
200. schrodinger
@ 199 i share the same sentiments about Mat, Tuon, and Egwene, mostly because i like the characters that use their brains more than their brawn. Mat is my favorite, because he is the most jaded, the most cynical. Tuon is second, even though she didn't even exist as a character until the later books; because she is almost as cynical as Mat, although a bit sheltered (to the realities of life not involving some sort of disembowelment or political intrigue). Egwene comes in third because she is just as stubborn as some of the "wool-headed" men in the books. Otherwise, they are the three most devious and fun to read characters of the series.
T C
201. Freelancer
I see that there is some displeasure about Egwene's apparently cavalier method of bringing up Rand's capture.

I've no problem with this at all. She's a Tower captive, the last thing she wants to do is give herself away as a pawn toward Rand as well as the rebels.

If she behaves as though she sees Rand the way they do (I truly believe that she doesn't, but she also doesn't see him quite as he is, but that's another topic), she can effectively tweak Elaida about failing to hold onto him. If, instead, she were to rant about how stupid they were for trying to capture the Savior of the World, or to say anything that might indicate her sympathy for him, it might come into their minds that she could still be used as bait to bring Rand to them. Egwene cannot allow that, and she knows it. Remember how shrewdly she played the Salidar Six and the Rebel Hall, she knows what she's about in this game.
Katie McNeal
202. Katiya
Like everyone, I'm so impressed with Egwene, I really like where she's going. I'm starting to let go of some of my dislike of her...still, I hate that in the midst of her awesome, she manages to put my back up with "what Rand is doing to the world without guidance". You may be the answer to the TOWER's problems, but certainly not the world's...let Rand do his thing, girl. She should be there to help him, but who is she to think she knows what's best? Why does she have to be so Aes Sedai even when she isn't one? *whine*
neilorenzo
203. Al Aldazar
*she always did appear...uhm...a little bratty?
neilorenzo
204. Al Aldazar
not that that's bad, just gets annoying with her know it all attitude...
ahmad ahmad
205. dobby_100@yahoo.com
does anyone know if we have shot note on the chapter one reviews. would be nice to know indeapth meaning of whats going on.
Timothy Mulvihill
206. Mulvihill1
Whoever said the audio books are expensive just sign up for an Audible account you can get so many books a month for a set price. Once this book is out I will have to reopen my Audible account to get the new book.
Nea_Rosheen
207. obiwan99
Someone has a download link? Somehow these flash things never really work for me.

On a side note, when does tor move to html5 audio tags?
William Fettes
208. Wolfmage
Freelancer @ 201

It's the thoughts not the vocal bits that are at issue for me. As I said above, I'm in complete agreement with you that she's entitled and clever to use this information strategically. It's just the lack of any internal breaks or concern in her thoughts about Rand's attempted capture that gives me pause that this is a continuation of the know-it-all Egwene who thinks Rand must be using compulsion. An absence of a specific thought during a particular time isn't really strong evidence of much, but she has time to remonstrate about Rand's lack of guidance in her thoughts... So it does seem rather cavalier that she doesn't advert to the danger of Rand being captured or imagining what he might have endured when she is on the topic. So that juxtaposed next to her use of 'contained', did come off like she might have felt containing Rand was only fit and proper - the main disagreement being that she not Elaida should do the containing.
T C
209. Freelancer
Wolfmage@208

Maybe. And maybe she has no idea that he was put in a box or beaten twice daily. Maybe all she knows is that they shielded him and took him for a ride. She was around when Rand got the two letters from the Tower. She knows Elaida wants Rand brought to Tar Valon. Maybe she doesn't imagine that he had to endure any hardship beyond being held against his will. Since she's been held by an a'dam, she might be a tad insensitive to a more common kidnapping. As you say, deriving an impression of how considerate she is of Rand's situation from what is absent in her POV is unreliable.
Robert
210. nondescript75
Throughout the novels the only characer that annoyed me more than Egwene was Elaida herself. Since she has been captured, I have grown to like her more. Before, she had been named as a leader. After this she will have earned the Amyriln Seat.

Maybe that's why I didn't like her before, because she had such a high opinion of herself in relation to others (like Rand). I identify with his view more than hers, but like I said, I really think she is becoming worthy of respect. It will be interesting how this plays out.
Aulis Vaara
211. Aulis Vaara
This audio fragment is not working for me. Could be any number of things, but a simple download button would fix the problem regardless of the cause.
j p
212. sps49
Aulis Vaara-

A simple download button is probably being avoided for business reasons.

Do you have a broadband connection? Which browser and version are you using? Which plugins? Heck, what OS are you using? Generally, when something works for the vast majority of people, it is usually an issue with the computers of the few.

Edit: misspelling
Jacy Clark
213. Amalisa
Wolfmage@various and Freelancer@209... I just listened again and, yes, Egwene did know that Rand had been beaten:
…This was the woman who had pulled down Siuan. The woman who had beaten Rand. And the woman who had pushed the Aes Sedai themselves to the very brink of collapse. … (emphasis mine)

Immediately following that, however, is:
…Elaida needed to know Egwene's anger. She needed to be humiliated and made ashamed. …

I don't consider that to be a "lack of reaction" to the "con" of Rand's capture/beating (yes, and to the pulling down of Siuan and the damage to the White Tower).

I keep thinking of her test in the Acceptitron. When she came out of the third ring:
Egwene stepped out of the silver arch cold and stiff with anger. She wanted the iciness of anger to counter the searing of memory. Her body remembered burning, but other memories scored and scorched more deeply. Anger cold as death.

"Is that all there is for me?" she demanded. "To abandon him again and again? To betray him, fail him, again and again? Is that what there is for me?"


Nynaeve may come much closer to being Rand's counterweight in channeling, but that passage has always underscored - for me, anyway - that Egwene is meant to serve to balance him in (and I know I'll need a pass to enter the cuendillar bunker for saying this!) the post-Tarmon Gaidon world (if they both survive). They - Rand and Egwene - are the yin and yang that make up the ancient Aes Sedai symbol.

Remember the rest of the SG's and their journeys thru the Acceptitrons (including the one Aviendha went through in Rhuidean). Nynaeve's test dealt with fear and duty. The only things we know about Aviendha's is that a) she knew she would love Rand and b) something disastrous would happen if she and Elayne interfered when he was using the Choedan Kal. Elayne's test was so unimportant (apparently) that we only know that she was "awful" to someone or about something.

Egwene's test, in contrast, was all about Rand. And only one of them dealt with a romantic relationship, so it wasn't some lingering love for him.

I judge most of Egwene's actions and interactions re Rand against her Test for Accepted. Anger cold as death about being unable to help him does not lend itself to indifference. When the time comes to mete out judgment on Elaida, I believe that Egwene will take all of Elaida's actions against Rand into consideration, and Elaida's punishment will make Aes Sedai tremble for centuries to come. "This I Foretell!" ;)
Malik Alwindi
214. M4lik
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

damn another 24 datys >.>
A A
216. PhantomIce
@144. moondivatx
"I just hope it doesn't involve Elayne and her babies...Min's viewing of Aviendha with 4 babes and something being wrong about it, makes me wonder: how long will Elayne survive her babes? That would give Rand enough pain to learn his lesson."

Nice to know I am not the only one who thinks childbirth might shorten Elayne's lifespan. I actually think if a main character is to die, she is more likely than Min.
Nea_Rosheen
218. TheRedEagle
'One more thing about Verin and Cads... One of them is Black'

Sorry but I've never picked up that one of them must be Black, maybe I'm missing something? Anyone want to clarify??

First time I've listened to any book in audio and I have to say it was a good experience if a little off putting with the different pronunciations. Still from what I've heard/read so far this will be a great book and I'm looking forward to it. BS has done an amazing job picking up the threads and I have total confidence that he will be able to finish the weaving of The Pattern:D
Alice Loughnan
219. alicegene
I'm glad other people love Mat, (my sister thinks I'm crazy), and I'm a bit of a Nynaeve fan myself but everyone should really give Egwene a break. The last time she saw Rand he was giving orders and behaving like an ignorant fool, then he went off and slept with three of her closest friends, and now she's being beaten and humiliated every day in order to gain enough power to help him, while he's free and to the best of her knowledge, unharmed. I'd be a bit insensitive too if I were her.
William Fettes
220. Wolfmage
Freelancer @ 209

"Maybe. And maybe she has no idea that he was put in a box or beaten twice daily. Maybe all she knows is that they shielded him and took him for a ride."

For me, at least, the capture is enough by itself to trigger something.

"She was around when Rand got the two letters from the Tower. She knows Elaida wants Rand brought to Tar Valon. Maybe she doesn't imagine that he had to endure any hardship beyond being held against his will. Since she's been held by an a'dam, she might be a tad insensitive to a more common kidnapping."

That's the rub. I'd actually prefer that her absence of a cautionary thought here was not due to this kind of failure of imagination.

"As you say, deriving an impression of how considerate she is of Rand's situation from what is absent in her POV is unreliable."

Yes, I do consider it unreliable and certainly not enough to taint my overall positive reaction to Egwene in this chapter.

Amalisa @ 213

Well I guess I have to cop that; if I'm going to use juxtaposition as tentative evidence, I can't very well distinguish your usage of juxtaposition, even if the outrage does seem more directed at Siuan and the state of Tar Valon than Rand.

As for her Acceptatron test, I've been waiting to see this Egwene resurface for nine books or so now. So it's not exactly a strong presence in my mind as compared to her most recent conduct.

Also, the other point I’d make here is that it depends on how you view Egwene's role at various points in the series. Foreshadowing is a great device for the audience to make meta judgements about character and plot development, but it isn't the same kind of moral ammunition as prophesy. Prophesy and Foretellings (properly interpreted) can give a character direct moral capital to act. Ta'veren enjoy the same endowment more strongly writ large by virtue of being agents of the pattern itself. That doesn't mean there is a licence to be reckless or whatever - but it does mean that there is certain kind of leeway and certain presumptions can be made about the role you play. Now, we don't know if the Acceptatron test involves some prophetic elements occasionally, or only with the dream ring ter'angreal present, but either way Egwene can't possibly determine which is which. So Min's viewing of her is arguably the only substantive evidence that she was going to be Amyrlin in the future. All the rest is merely foreshadowing. So there's not really enough there for me to say she is justified in presuming to be in power.

I’ve never been convinced by the angle that Egwene has done everything from the beginning just to aid Rand. I’m not claiming she is a darkfriend or even has bad intentions, but I’d say her ambition and attitude that she knows better is a big part of it too. So until she basically lucked out and fell ass backward into the Amyrlin seat, she had no real mandate to second guess Rand except as a friend and contemporary. Once in the position, she began to earn a larger mandate based on her real responsibility, but that mandate is basically just catching up to her pre-existing attitude where Rand is concerned. Even so, it is only in the later chapters of KoD and here where I see a real leader emerging.

alicegene @ 219

"The last time she saw Rand he was giving orders and behaving like an ignorant fool, then he went off and slept with three of her closest friends, and now she's being beaten and humiliated every day in order to gain enough power to help him, while he's free and to the best of her knowledge, unharmed. I'd be a bit insensitive too if I were her. "

Please. Egwene gave up her relationship Rand almost as soon as she encountered the Tinkers, well before Rand did in his thoughts. His pessimism about the relationship was solely about sparing her the danger and misery of being stuck with a man destined to go mad and kill those around him. She certainly does not begrudge the harem's relationship with Rand and that would a be a childish and petty basis for thinking ill of him anyway. As for giving orders, they both do, and he is the Dragon Reborn, and several times a sovereign, that's his job.

Fact is, Rand makes mistakes. But he has already saved the world a hundred times over, and pulled off incredible and unmatched feats, including cleansing Saidin and pulling Randland together and containing the Seanchan. He hasn't done it perfectly or without help, but Egwene’s accomplishments so far pale in significance, given the chip she carries on her shoulder about Rand. Once the Tower is united due to her initiatives, we can talk about her entitlement and presumption that she has valid guidance to give Rand.
Nea_Rosheen
221. somewheresouth
Hey.
Thanks for the teasers TOR - consider us teased. Very good. Though I did listen to the prologue late last night after finally figuring out how to download it, and woke up in the middle of something fairly momentous - that was a laugh, but I hate to be spoilered by my own self falling asleep!

@213 - brilliant.

I have my own crackpot theory, carrying on from something I vaguely remember from the Dragonmount review of TGS: Apparently there is a "big event" in this book that changes Rand's temperament (somehow). My idea after reading the comments on this chapter is that maybe Rand snaps and kills Cadsuane, and that is how she teaches him manners? Though I'm not sure how that scans logically..

Maybe it has something to do with the death of Elayne instead?

Oh, and the "wouldn't it suck if the world ended before we finished the books" thread (?@Siuanfan) I laughed for five minutes. I do wish someone hadn't said it though.. the world is looking enough like ending these days (Tarmon Gai'don is coming, kids!) and the last couple of times I made throwaway comments like that they bit me on the arse..

hehe, whatever. it's a school night. see you all back here once I've acquired a reinforced handbag and a present from the Amazon rainforest...
Aulis Vaara
222. Aulis Vaara
@sps49::

I know why they don't do it. And I'm also certain of why it doesn't work now. It's just the ever annoying technology of flash being applied to every little media thing on the web.

Flash has never worked well with Linux, but regardless of that, it makes no sense to play video and audio in a format that was never designed for it. But again, that is just my opinion apparently going against the stream.
Jacy Clark
223. Amalisa
Wolfmage@220

Well I guess I have to cop that; if I'm going to use juxtaposition as tentative evidence, I can't very well distinguish your usage of juxtaposition, even if the outrage does seem more directed at Siuan and the state of Tar Valon than Rand.


"Juxtaposition as tentative evidence"? I'm assuming you mean the presentation - from Egwene's own inner monologue, and how that can be considered "tentative" is beyond me! - of the three greatest crimes Elaida had committed. From Egwene's life experience, the only other crime I could imagine she would find equally heinous would be if Elaida personally scourged the Two Rivers!

I don't think that Egwene is basing the way events are playing out as something predicted by the Acceptatron. I believe the Acceptatron was designed to pick, from within the subject's own fears/dreams/imaginations whatever was most likely to prove the strongest lure away from the responsibilities a potential Aes Sedai would have to face. The dream ter'angreal probably did juice it up a little for Egwene... (On the other hand, remember that Nynaeve's final test had a Sharina Sedai - something that she reacted very strongly to when she later learned of the novice Sharina Malloy. So what prophetic/alternative timestream properties the testing ter'angreal possesses remains to be seen.)

Whatever the eventual resolution of the Acceptatron's properties, the indisputable fact remains that Egwene's primary concern was Rand! Nothing that I have read leads me to believe that that's changed! Whether it is concern about his mental health, concern about his impact on the world, concern about his wanting to have the Aes Sedai kneel to him, concern that he make it to Tarmon Gaidon - her concern remains Rand. As for the "guidance" part... we all maybe have jumped to the conclusion that she means "guidance" like Elaida does. After all, what is Cadsuane trying to do? Guide him. I don't see a lot of people doing double jump nip-ups over that...

Is Egwene an over-achiever? Well, yeah. We've all known people like that and, while they can be annoying, they are also usually pretty darn good at what they do! All of the Two Rivers folk are, if you think about it. From village nobodies to Dragon Reborn, Amyrlin, Prince of Ravens, Lord of the Two Rivers and the uncrowned Queen of Malkier/Aes Sedai - all in the space of a few years. Of them, the two who really, really had to work the hardest to accomplish what they have are Egwene and Rand. Again, yin and yang.
William Fettes
224. Wolfmage
Amalisa @ 223


"Juxtaposition as tentative evidence"? I'm assuming you mean the presentation - from Egwene's own inner monologue, and how that can be considered "tentative" is beyond me!"

You're not reading my post correctly. Tentative there is qualifying my argument about her lack of reaction to the capture in the earlier passages, not the evidence you led. I did say juxtaposition, when a stronger word is appropriate, but the point is I'm downplaying the strength of my argument and acknowledging yours.

"of the three greatest crimes Elaida had committed. From Egwene's life experience, the only other crime I could imagine she would find equally heinous would be if Elaida personally scourged the Two Rivers!"

Maybe.

"I don't think that Egwene is basing the way events are playing out as something predicted by the Acceptatron."

Well, that's the point - it can't have much in-text weight in granting Egwene the moral capital to act as if she is a designated counter-force to Rand. That is, she has to wait until she actually becomes that force, or otherwise earns the role through her achievements and accumulation of wisdom.

"I believe the Acceptatron was designed to pick, from within the subject's own fears/dreams/imaginations whatever was most likely to prove the strongest lure away from the responsibilities a potential Aes Sedai would have to face. The dream ter'angreal probably did juice it up a little for Egwene... (On the other hand, remember that Nynaeve's final test had a Sharina Sedai - something that she reacted very strongly to when she later learned of the novice Sharina Malloy. So what prophetic/alternative timestream properties the testing ter'angreal possesses remains to be seen.)"

Yes, so as I said above, the prophetic elements of the test are unclear and too indeterminate and mixed in with non-prophetic elements to provide a basis for the characters in-text.

"Whatever the eventual resolution of the Acceptatron's properties, the indisputable fact remains that Egwene's primary concern was Rand!"

Her heartfelt reaction to repeatedly failing Rand in the test sequence is clear back in that chapter, yes. But that does not gloss all her actions with such a motive from that point on. That would rob the character of development, and the natural tensions that are built up between Rand and herself. In that sense, it's quite apparent that she has her own drives and attitudes, and she waxes and wanes with Rand.

Prior to becoming shadow Amyrlin, it would be a huge stretch to say she deceives the Wise Ones, shortcuts her learning and disabuses Nynaneve, because dreamwalking is essential to Rand. Her primary motive there is her personal thirst for knowledge, and the possibility of fulfilling her potential as a dreamwalker, as identified by Anaiya way back in tGH. Once she becomes Amyrlin she can be read more sensibly as being completely focused on the singular outcome of uniting the Tower. And that can be plausibly tied to the Last Battle. But it's important to acknowledge that this loyalty won't always coincide with Rand's best interest. As Cadsuane says, even targets close together can be not at all the same. Her idea of what is necessary for the Last Battle may not be correct at all and it won't always be transitive: White Tower = Last Battle = Rand. It's quite conceivable that the first step alone will breakdown.

"Nothing that I have read leads me to believe that that's changed! Whether it is concern about his mental health, concern about his impact on the world, concern about his wanting to have the Aes Sedai kneel to him, concern that he make it to Tarmon Gaidon - her concern remains Rand."

Well, I guess we read it differently. I'm not so sanguine about her backhanded I-know-what's-best attitude, jumping to conclusions that he's been compelling sisters, and generally carrying on as if she had twice her experience and accomplishments. My view is that at some stages, Egwene thinks Rand is so comically error-prone and that Aes Sedai are so superior, that he must be subordinated to their guidance, and that this must constitute a real fracture in fidelity. It's a contrast to how Nynaeve behaves.

"As for the "guidance" part... we all maybe have jumped to the conclusion that she means "guidance" like Elaida does. After all, what is Cadsuane trying to do? Guide him. I don't see a lot of people doing double jump nip-ups over that..."

But we're forced to tolerate elements of Cadsuane's obnoxious Far Madding sensibilities because she has a prophetic ordained role in teaching Rand laughter and tears. That's my point about moral capital. Plus, Cadsuane has actually proved her mettle by giving useful advice on a number of occasions and she has helped save Rand, when he was injured from Fain, when he was in Far Madding, and at the Cleansing. Egwene has no equivalents yet.
A A
225. PhantomIce
I would say that Egwene has thrown herself wholeheartedly into being Aes Sedai and the shadow Amyrlin and her true focus is to unite the tower, somehow tie all chanelling women to it and be it benignly or not "tell" Rand what he is supposed to do until and in TG.

Eggs has continually underestimated Rand and felt she knew more than him and her becoming Amyrlin has not changed that, and it may have made it worse because now AS listen to what she says and after all everyone needs to listen to AS. Unlike Nynaeve, Eggs never really questioned that AS should be obeyed.

Eggs is also apparantly ready to believe the worst of Rand based on the smallest rumor (well matched with Gawyn in that) and her asking Elayne to report everything Rand says or does next time Elayne is with him is ominous because having heard of rumours that AS have sworn oaths to Rand she apparently believes she needs to stop him from coralling the AS like the Seanchen do.

I don't hate Eggs like many do, but I also don't like her a great deal because despite gaining some maturity with the wise ones she seems ready to cast much of that off with the assumption that her station brings her better knowledge than those around her. And also I particularly dislike the fact that she seems to shed off all loyalty to Rand from their childhood and to me she seems willing to sacrifice him for the AS and that I really don't like.
T C
226. Freelancer
People who should know him better still get upset with Rand when he treads on their turf, and they are always wrong when they do.

He ends the threat of civil war in Andor, ends the hostilities with Cairhien. Elayne should be thrilled with that. Instead, she's indignant that he has the nerve to think he can "give" her the throne.

Post-Dumai's Wells, Rand demands fealty of the surviving captors, and also of the Salidar sisters who disobeyed his requirements to meet with him. Both sets of Aes Sedai went to him, not he to them. But when they learn of the results, both Elaida and Egwene are outrage at Rand for having the temerity to put Aes Sedai in a subservient position to himself.

That said, Egwene would never in a million years "sacrifice Rand for the AS". Yes, she believes she knows enough to better steer him than she thinks he is doing himself, but she still knows that Tar'mon Gai'don is more important than the White Tower.

There are two kinds of Tyrants. Neither is good, but one is vastly better. Those that want power for power's sake, for their own gain and glory. And those who think they need the reins of power at a critical time in history, because they believe they know best how to protect the public during hard times. Elaida is the first, Egwene the second.
A A
227. PhantomIce
At times if feels to me as if Egwene has lost sight of the fact that Rand is the turning point of TG. Sometimes her attitude makes me think that she genuinely believes that with the Tower whole they can get Rand to where he needs to be for TG kicking and screaming if need be and regardless of what he feels he might need to do and possibly at the cost of any plans he himself may have made. That's what I meant by "sacrificing Rand for the AS".
Ross Hathaway
228. RossH
Hello
My only computer with internet does not have working flash player or whatever is required to play the file. I have tried saving it on a flashdrive as a .swf, .ra, and .mp3 file. These did not work for me and I was wondering if anyone has any suggestions. Thanks
T C
229. Freelancer
PhantomIce@227

I took your meaning exactly as you describe. I find it difficult to reconcile Egwene's clarity of thought regarding everything else she does, her strategic vision, and her persistence in putting the Tower aright, with the idea that she would be as blind as you suggest regarding Rand. I don't say it's impossible, but it doesn't scan that way to me.

Anyway, even if she is, one contact with him and she'll be over it, one way or another. Remember how long it's been since they've spoken.
A A
230. PhantomIce
Except that there is that foretelling the *oh so lovable* Elaida had about the Dragon Reborn knowing the anger of the Amyrlin so their next meeting might not be too friendly.

I have to admit I still have to reread the last two books (both of which I've only read once when they first came out), so maybe my judgment re Egwene is being colored too much by her comments to Elayne in Tel'aran'rhiod.
Chris Powell
231. slayera
Thanks Tor for supporting the audio book side of things. I love reading books, but enjoy good audio books so much better. I love being read to as a kid, guess I still do now. The best way to fall asleep at night or kill long hours on the road. One suggestion, please never, never switch narrators in the middle of a series, it kills the continuity.
Athena Barnes
232. a_m_m_b
@ drewlovs re: 120.

apples & grapefruits? say rather apples & mushrooms.

Rand was to be tortured til broken that he may be as reflexively & mindlessly obedient as any da'covale.
Jacy Clark
233. Amalisa
Wolfmage@224

Mea culpa... :)

I really do enjoy (and learn from) your posts - even if I don't totally agree with them... You remind me, very much, of the guy I dated throughout college. We belonged to a casual group who would meet at a local pub and argue absolutely anything, just for the joy of the argument! No wonder he eventually ended up as an attorney... and I did not! *lol*

Her heartfelt reaction to repeatedly failing Rand in the test sequence is clear back in that chapter, yes. But that does not gloss all her actions with such a motive from that point on. That would rob the character of development, and the natural tensions that are built up between Rand and herself. In that sense, it's quite apparent that she has her own drives and attitudes, and she waxes and wanes with Rand.
(emphasis mine)

And therein lies the reason I enjoy Egwene (and Mat and Nynaeve) so much!
Sean Salmi
234. genjokoan
Listened to TGS's Chapter 2. Wow. Thanks to Amalisa for her very interesting posts. I'm at work now. Must go. Thanks Amalisa.
neilorenzo
235. Al Aldazar
Can't completely finish the audio but I gonna go out on a limb here and say...
Egwene has fully embraced being AS, since the earlier books she has grown more and more distant from the Two Rivers and has since considered the WT her "home". Just shows you how much she cares for her childhood roots, and she still wonders how and why her old friends have changed so much. She doesn't seem to realize that she has changed through or how the others experiences affected them, she thinks more for the Tower than for others. She'll do anything. She can't relate to people anymore...
Nea_Rosheen
236. OldManNoal
Wolfmage, you make this thread very difficult to read...

SlayerA the Narrator Hater: I read the series 4 times before switching to audiobook, and I must say I like how the male perspectives are done by a male and the female done by a female. Makes sense to me. There is nothing more annoying than listening to a man trying to impersonate a woman and vice versa.

KUDOS to Brandon Sanderson for Chapter Two. It is very much on a par with RJ's work in terms of narrative structure and voice. Much moreso than some would credit you for. Again, KUDOS.

Chapter One was great, although the difference in narrative and voice are much more obvious. I don't mind it though. The Wheel needs to turn, and that style is very effective in doing so. I wonder if Justice was the sword Rand got, but my guess is that the Sword belonged to the Dragon Lews Therin Himself. That would be so supremely awesome.

I'm very eager to see Mat and Thom, I miss those guys. They're like uncles to me. I don't think there will be any Perrin in this book, but I think Rand will be in a heap of trouble by the end and Perrin will come to him at the beginning of the next book. We shall see...

I think Noal is going to turn out to be a Darkfriend.
Sam Redman
238. englishkiwi
lol I don't know about a darkfriend but does anyone here think that Noal might actually be Jain Farstrider? As apposed to just being his cousin?
Alice Arneson
239. Wetlandernw
englishkiwi @ 238 - Most people I know believe that Noal is Jain. Check out that section in the WoTFAQ for more. Strong consensus that Ishamael (and possibly Graendal) have played some nasty mind games on him, as well; it's possible that he still has a Complusion set that will make him do some nasty things without being an actual DF.
Jacy Clark
240. Amalisa
genjokoan@234

It is tempting to sneak online while at work to see what's going on here at Tor.com - especially on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays... ;)

Thank you for the kind words!
Sam Redman
241. englishkiwi
Wetlandernw @ 239
Oh great thanks. It's good to know that other people have been thinking that too:)
Joshua Jones
242. hybridhavoc
For those questionable about the Audiobooks, I do have all of them up until this point, and they are a fantastic way to experience the books. The reader heard here is definitely good, but her male counterpart is phenomenal.

It would actually be really awesome of Tor to put up the prologue of Eye of the World in audiobook format so that you can get a true feel for his talent. Hearing Lews Therin yell out "Ilyena!" is an experience in and of itself.
Maiane Bakroeva
243. Isilel
Freelancer @226;

Rand demands fealty of the surviving captors, and also of the Salidar sisters who disobeyed his requirements to meet with him.

While Rand was completely within his rights with the TAS, whose crimes stripped them of their diplomatic immunity, IMHO he was wrong to treat SAS that way.

They were an embassy _and_ they were coming to his rescue. Did they have ulterior motives? Yes, like everybody else who came to help Rand at Dumai's Wells. So what? This wasn't a sufficient reason to subjugate them, Rand's requirements here or there.


I also honestly don't see the outrage with re-unification of WT being Egwene's priority. She even thinks to herself in this chapter that this is the one thing that she can do something about, not to mention that it is her sworn duty. She has to go step by step and this is the first essential step. She _is_ outraged at Elaida's treatment of Rand, so there.
Adam Loops
244. Cecero
The reason why Rand was mad is because he 1st doesn't trust AS. He gave them explicit instructions on how many SAS to bring (also to put them on equal footing with how many he told the TAS to bring), and they brought more with them. This is why he was mad. This is why he made them swear fealty.
Kozma Ovadiuc
245. CR055
i'm curious about what people would say if they heard the first chapter in audio, would that change peoples minds about wether RJ or BS voice was prominint in it?

i dont much care to find out which chapters were written by which author. Frankly, after reading Sanders books, i loved all of them, so it really wouldnt matter. ^^
Timothy Mautz
246. guyvader
ok so i do own the books but i prefer the audio form. lots of people don't care for it but yet have never actually read/listened an audio book. this series and some other books i have are really good in audio form. the wheel of time has 2 readers that do a great job with voices and really making you feel part of the story! the star wars audio books are awesome because they have sound effects and differant voices. but there are some that are pretty bad, as far as the readers go. so i suggest everyone try it start with the first book or even your fav out of the series, plus you can do other things while you listen!
Nea_Rosheen
247. Lord of Morning!
so im new here but i have to say that i really enjoyed reading everyones posts ;)

as far as the divide between rand and egwene i think we should first remember who rand is and thats the dragon first and lews therin second. pushing the first aside and focusing on LT who will mistrust ladies automatically
(and we see some of that come out with him starting to talk about latra, foreshadowing the fateful concord)
and as far as rand demanding fealty, going back to being the dragon, everyone who lives in the "light" owes the guy fealty. its as simple as that. Period. the dragon is the leader of the light, he leads ALL aes sedai.

with egwene (and everyone else for that matter) trying to "guide" him i kinda personally wish that LT without the insanity would take over. think about, you have the dragon back in full, the cunning, charm, shrewdness, but most of all knowledge in present time would rip the world a new one lol. the WT would become ignorant children, the forsaken would be doomed, he could get rid of taim and make a new hundred companions and with their aes sedai they could fix the DO prison right this time.

but thats just me wishing =)
Ekundayo modu Nkululeko
248. ekunday07
by the way, is rand weaker than LT in the power?? i seem to remember reading somewhere that LT was (like lanfear) as strong in the powerful as could possibly be in the power with only elan/ishy as his equal...but there seems to be quite a few ashaman types who come close although never his equal. granted that we don't know much about LT and who was close i would just imagine that rand wouldn't have anyone close to his strength in his era save for a few ashaman and the forsaken.

and to be fair with egwene, i think shes is all for the WT now but because of the prior romantic link with rand, i think that they might be able to reconnect. i believe that they have the ability (and its been demonstrated already) to reminisce about certain things that happened in their childhood, something he cannot do with anyone but mat and perrin. it moment like these where they can both step back and kinda chill out for a moment.

and i cant wait to hear from mat who shares number one position with rand in my view.
Henry Loose
249. schrodinger
14 days until I see if my crazy theories have any merit... I can't stand it.
Patrick Huff
250. pattack
This is my theory, and keep in mind this is only my opinion. The Seanchan are prophesized by Egwene to attack the White Tower. From what was gathered in chapter one, Tuon will soon ask for a meeting with the Dragon. Rand has been given clues from the kinslayer about the lack of support from the Aes Sedai during the sealing of the dark ones prison. He will lead an attack on the weakened White Tower under joint Seanchan and his own forces. Possibly with the aid of the rebels and their army. Once the tower is secure, agreements will be made with the rebel Aes Sedai and Rand to aid him in Tarmon Gaidon. All Aes Sedai loyal to Elaida will become Damane and forced to fight in the last battle. Many will be killed, but with the weakened state of the Tower, I don't see it as much of a battle. Mostly Elaida's forces defending the city. Tell me what you think. I am sure it won't be as simple as I made it, but I do think this will come close.
james watson
251. soulverbs
Egwene will teach Rand what only she can...the Aiel way of accepting pain, not to be hard for the sake of being hard but to know that there is a purpose for what he should and must endure; without learning to laugh or cry, the world will be dead even if Rand wins.
Alice Arneson
252. Wetlandernw
pattack @ 250 - Doesn't really make much sense to me. I don't see Rand attacking the WT, especially if he's realizing that he needs to work with the AS to seal the Bore properly. Attacking with the Seanchan, and particularly allowing the Seanchan to make damane of any Aes Sedai, would alienate the whole lot of them to the point that they might just forget TG in a White Tower vs. Black Tower battle. The DO would win for sure, then. No matter how much the Tower is divided, neither side would take kindly to someone else stepping in and trying to "help" - and if that someone allowed any AS to be leashed, there'd be hell to pay.

I think a much more likely scenario is that the Seanchan attack will come without Tuon's knowledge and before she can meet with Rand - or maybe even at the same time. I think it possible (if not necessarily probable) that the attack will be a turning point for reunification of the AS, when the SAS come to the rescue of those in the Tower and Egwene leads both in finally repelling the attack. It's pretty clearly foreshadowed that at least one of the Tower AS will be claimed by the Seanchan, but I don't think it will be huge numbers. JMHO.
Andreas Kunar
253. AndreasK0
Amazing, thanks!!! Makes the wait a bit easier, but then again not at all ...
jack richards
254. chuck099
Is it just me or do you think that Elaida is just screwing with Egwene? I'm sure she's just pretending to want to change the oaths and stuff. Well I hope so always thought she was a more intresting character then this.
Sam Thurmond
255. Slickster44
WOW audio! What bloody book are they reading? None of the characters sound like ive imagined. DOH. How 'bout Egwene getting addictid to Fork Root for a twist? If she joined FA (fork root anonymous) who should she ask to be her sponsor?
Henry Loose
256. schrodinger
I think that Egwene is slowly becoming immune to the affects of Forkroot (thanks slickster for the idea; addicts need larger and larger doses to get their fix). If her dosage remains the same, and Forkroot is the same as any other substance that affects the mind or body, then eventually Egwene should be able to channel more and more (it also helps that she is crazy strong in the power). By the time the Seanchan attack, I assume that she should be back to about full power again. Any other ideas?
Nea_Rosheen
259. user123
I must admit that I am surprised by all the love for Egwene. Like most of the female characters in this series, Egwene has been ambitious, power-hungry, domineering, etc. When the series started, she was Nynaeve’s apprentice. But, being the village Wisdom wasn’t good enough for her. She wanted to be an Aes Sedai. Now, she’s the Amyrlin Seat. Light preserve us!

Egwene has been so successful at becoming the epitome of an Aes Sedai, that Rand has become wary of her (Chapter 1). And, he should be. I know that Amalisa@213 has quoted Egwene as expressing concern for Rand.

…This was the woman who had pulled down Siuan. The woman who had beaten Rand. And the woman who had pushed the Aes Sedai themselves to the very brink of collapse. …

But, if you listen to these statements in context (32:10 - 33:39), Egwene seems to be listing the failures of Elaida as Amyrlin Seat, rather than expressing concern for Rand. In fact, most of the chapter seems to be dedicated to contrasting Egwene’s and Elaida’s methods to reunite the White Tower.

So, when Egwene wonders “What is Rand doing to the world without guidance?” (42:41), she doesn’t sound like a girl worried about a childhood friend. She sounds like an Aes Sedai who is planning to exert her influence over someone.

And, yes, she may have shown some personal growth in this chapter. But, how long will that last? Remember when it looked like Elayne had shown some growth after Matt saved her life AND offered to give her his ter’angreal. That didn’t last very long. Did it?

The only two female characters in this series that I like are Min and Brigitte. So, if one of the female characters has to die, I hope its Egwene, Elayne, Aviendha, or Cadsuane.
john massey
260. subwoofer
'K while re-reading CoS I get that Eggy gets a few girls taking Oaths to her. Elaida must have balance, but her oaths are forced, Eggy gets it willingly.

I'm with Free at the end of 226- the Tyrant bit. Well said. IMO the shawl brings with it an inflated ego. Too bad that it seems the AS forgot about the "servants of all" definition of their name. AS seem to take their tittle and make all others, including kings, bow to them. Eggy is no exception.

@256- yes it does have merit. Also the nice thing about forkroot etc. is that Eggy has no more crippling headaches. They were rendering her useless to the point of death, even if they were Halima/Balthamel induced. I seem to remember somewhere that Ny was saying that forkroot helps heal the body...

Woof™.
Jack
261. dragon4evrborn
Just a quick comment, and feel free to correct me if im wrong, but hasnt Egwene already attended Elaida during her imprisonment? I just have a very strong feelings thats the case.

Also, @260, Egwene stops getting headaches because Aran'gar is no longer around, and she was the one giving Egwene her headaches.
Jack
262. dragon4evrborn
Sorry, just realised u already corrected urself partly there @260, but thats actually the first ive heard that forkroot could have helped the headaches.

Interesting point, but I wouldnt have thought that forkroot could do that. Like to hear more about that :D
Rob Munnelly
263. RobMRobM
@261 - no, she hasn't attended Elaida yet. Elaida discusses her for the first time post-capture in the KoD Attending Elaida chapter, but that discusses how Elaida asks Tarna to have Eg attend Elaida rather than Eg having done so already.

Yes, the headaches were from Halima; no, I don't recall commentary that Subwoof is referring to that forkroot helped headaches.
Henry Loose
264. schrodinger
crimsonthorn helps with pain (in larger doses, it is lethal, and killed Adeleas), I'll have to re-read the passage where forkroot first comes up, but maybe you (subwoofer) were thinking of this... or not.
Ben
265. sudsy
under a week I cant wait. This chapter seemed more rj and makes me totaly stoked
T C
268. Freelancer
You all are thinking of Sleepwell root. It was used (wrongly) to drug Nynaeve, Egwene and Elayne by the bandits on the way to Tear in TDR after they'd been ambushed and knocked out. Instead, it helped them sleep very restfully for a short time and cleared the headaches from the beatings they took. Crimsonthorn in very small doses is a sleep aid, but never a word about headaches. Forkroot doesn't have any medicinal properties at all. It is more of a mild intoxicant to the general public, and the organic Shield for channelers.
Michael
269. Mikey2783
Amazing book so far. These early chapters make me want it even more. I don't like audio books, but anything for the wheel of time
greg carlson
270. spydur0065
@142

kudos to you i was gonna comment on that as well but one thing was incorrect.. egwene showed her the weave before she was taught it was used as a test and an intimidation tool to let mog. know not to lie to her but on all other points you made i totally agree
greg carlson
271. spydur0065
@213 cadsuane is meant to teach rand that there is still something in the world that is good and to teach him to laugh and not let the coming battle of tarmon gaidon consume him in full.. its stated in one of the books but unfortunately i cannot remember which one.. it has nothing to do with teaching him manners though he could learn a few lol
greg carlson
272. spydur0065
@236

i believe perrin will be in this book as faile is in the prologue killing the prophet. he is going to have a large part in these next books and it was brought to my attention that he may be on the darker side of things at least for a but because of faile. He will do anything for her even try to kill rand i think. and we all know how she feels about rand
Ross Hathaway
273. RossH
hello
I was actually able to listen to the chapter at school, so nobody needs to investigate stuff for me.

SiuanFan - U SO FUNNY!

I think the reason I liked Wot when I got into it was cause of the "rocking out with the power and stuff like that" parts. I didn't like when the good guys made mistakes, or when their plans or whatever were interfered with. I also was not digging the comparisons so much (always taller, always more willpower + whatnot). I thought "why does this stuff matter?" But now that I think about it, in real life, there's so much variation in height and willpower and everything. There are so many other lands and cultures and stuff. Wot is a little more like reality than I thought, even though there is the OP and Dark One.
Now that I recognize that, I wonder if I will be able to enjoy the "rocking out with the power and stuff like that" parts, or even the whole series. I felt sort of removed from the 1st and 2nd chapters. Maybe it was for a different reason, I don't know. I thought Brandon was doing an awesome job, so that's not it, and I recognize there is much more to Wot than "rocking out with the power and stuff like that". Maybe I have changed too much since I last read the books or something. Probably when I get the book I will get into it. I have faith in BS and everyone - thanks so much.

Are you excited?

ps Gustav Mahler says the symphony is like the world. If you want some music to listen to while reading, or maybe while not reading, check him out.

Love to all,
Ross
Magnus
275. MagnusL
not loading oh goodie
trent
276. Teapot35
yea I'm not getting any "widget after the jump"

am I missing something?

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